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The question is not about the Compostela. It's about the credencial. Don't you need a credencial if you want to stay in a municipal albergue which, I assume, is a strictly non-religious establishment? IOW, don't you need a credencial even if you have no intention to ever ask for a Compostela? I think @Castilian's question is touching on a topic that is often glossed over, perhaps on purpose. Have a look at the text of the credencial (the one that is linked on this forum page) which says in the first line for whom it is meant. And the last line which says that the holder of the credencial accepts these conditions. How many people actually read this?It wouldn't make any sense at all for there to be separate credentiales for people with/without religious motivations because motivations can and do change along the way. The important thing is to have a credentiale, get at least one stamp (sello) a day along the route and then two a day in the last 100kms. When you arrive in the Oficina del Peregrinos in Santiago you will be asked your motivation.
Are you sure that this applies to the newer credencials? I am just curious, I don't know the answer.Credenciales issued by national camino groups (the Confraternity, CCoP, AQC, APOC etc) generally have no mention of specific motivations. Become a member of your local association and they will provide you with their document.
When you arrive in the Oficina del Peregrinos in Santiago you will be asked your motivation.
If you say you have cultural or touristic reasons, you are given a 'welcome certificate'.
at least one stamp (sello) a day along the route and then two a day in the last 100kms.
How can a credencial that states it's just for pilgrims making the pilgrimage with a Christian sense serve as a proof you made it without any Spiritual reason?
Credenciales issued by national camino groups (the Confraternity, CCoP, AQC, APOC etc) generally have no mention of specific motivations.
I like your reasoning.Yes but that's already stated in the credencial (see below) so it shouldn't be necessary to ask it again unless we assume that what it's stated on the credencial may or may not be true.
The website of the Oficina del Peregrino provides a translation (a bit too literal, I think) of the "Remarks" in the Credencial that "everyone should read before embarking on their pilgrimage":
This Credencial is only for pilgrims on foot, bicycle or horseback, who wish to make the pilgrimage with a Christian sentiment [con sentido cristiano], even if it is only with an attitude of search [actitud de búsqueda].
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The bearer of this Credencial accepts these conditions.
It would be interesting to know how this is worded in newer international versions. I have an older French version which just demands are more general, less clearly defined "spiritual attitude" [démarche spirituelle] for the pilgrimage but nevertheless a "Christian attitude" [démarche chrétienne] for obtaining the Compostela. As I said, I think this is often glossed over.
Different coloured credenciales, or the covers on such as the CSJ ones, might also help the volunteers in the Pilgrims' Office.
Who cares, really!!
How do they define "sentido cristiano", Christian sentiment, or démarche chrétienne?
If you walk (live) in the spirit of love for your fellow man/woman, isn't that in the Christian Spirit?
I have in front of me three generations of CCoP credentials. The first, which was used until 2003, says: "... and that it is their desire to make this pilgrimage in the Christian spirit of searching for God." The second reads: "...their desire to make the pilgrimage in the spirit of spiritual discovery and renewal." Since January, the new CCoP accordion-shaped credencial says that the credencial: "...identifies you as a pilgrim to the refugios or albergues along the way."
I'm also surprised by this. It seems that the further away the issuer, the more secular the credencialI'm someway surprised that the Cathedral accepts nowdays a customization of the credencial deleting references to the Christian sense of the pilgrimage when they seemed to be interested in emphasizing that Christian sense of it when they announced they would accept just the credenciales issued by them from April 1st (2016) onwards
But isn't this all a bit wishy-washy? The overwhelming majority of the infrastructure is secular, financed by secular money, promoted by secular organisations. It doesn't matter in this context what your motivation for walking it is, everyone is free to walk it and use it. Surprisingly - or perhaps not surprisingly - the text in the current (new) Spanish credencial says that it has two purposes, and one of them is that it gives the holder access to los albergues que ofrece la hospitalidad cristiana del camino. My pre-2016 French version gives me access to the albergues that offer a more general "hospitality of the way" - whatever that isThe point of the credential is that special help, community and facilities are available to walkers with a certain set of motivations, walking within a specific age-old structure.
I wouldn't want anything to make problems for non-religious walkers/pilgrims but I don't think many would actually note differing coloured outer covers, or know their significance. If they did it might invite discussion and we could all learn something new from one another's motives - without being judgemental.I'm not sure how are the covers you talk about so I won't comment about them. However, I'll say that I don't like the idea of different coloured credenciales. That would make obvious who's walking for one sort of reasons and who's walking for other sort of reasons what might lead some people to judge other pilgrims, to discussions about why you believe or disbelieve whatever you believe or disbelieve... I think the credenciales, if there were two different types/models, should be as similar as possible being the differences just in the text that in one of the types would present the pilgrim as someone making a pilgrimage with a Christian sense (whatever that means) and on the other one there wouldn't be references to the Christian sense of it. In Spanish, peregrinación doesn't necessarily imply a religious sense but if in other languages it implies it, other word(s) may be used instead.
The Cathedral authorities have long made it clear that they accept the credentials issued by national pilgrims' organizations, not just the documents issued by them. This is a longstanding practice, and was reaffirmed at meetings with the Cathedral and the associations at the time of the first international Camino associations conference held in Santiago in 2015.
In terms of your last question, I don't know if anyone thought that a Cathedral-specific reference was necessary, and almost 700 CCoP credentials with that wording have been accepted in Santiago, and compostelas issued on that account.
I suspect any form of differentiated credentials would result in differentiated treatment of pilgrims; that is to say, separate is inherently unequal.
What if the Church/Organization ran out of the religious credentials? Would you accept a non religious one?
As some have said, it is only for bed,
Some people still haven't picked up on this aspect even when they get to Santiago, and they can get the Welcome Certificate. I'd be interested in knowing what percentage do.
In the end, it's a pilgrimage. If you really aren't comfortable with at least a spiritual aspect (self-reflection? - as oursonpolo says, the official definition is pretty wide) then there are plenty of GR routes and other trails around Europe you can use.
Yes, I know. But, I think it makes little sense that the Cathedral authorities want to emphasize the Christian sense of the pilgrimage at the same time they accept a credencial that deleted the reference(s?) it had to that Christian sense. IMHO, it only makes sense if the Cathedral authorities aren't (fully) aware of what's the current text of the credencial of whatever associations don't include that sort of references at the moment what leads to the question: Would those credenciales by refused once the Cathedral realized their lack of references to the Christian sense of the pilgrimage? Although, of course, the first question may be: Are the Cathedral authorities fully aware of the current text of each of the credenciales that they accept as valid?
BTW, The Cathedral authorities established a máximum price of 2 Euros for the credencial and it seems the CCoP charges more...
Maybe I'm the only one who finds odd that a credencial states that it identifies you as a pilgrim to the refugios or albergues along the route (i.e.: to the owners and the staff of accommodations along your route) but doesn't state that it identifies you to the people in charge of your destination (i.e.: the Cathedral authorities and the staff of the places runned by them)?
I do not have the psychic powers to read into the minds of the Cathedral authorities
We are strict about this because it is unfair to give a Compostela or a Welcome Certificate to someone who hasn't done the route on foot.
No-one has yet questioned my credencials as a pilgrim but perhaps a time will come when my (red / black /leaf green?) credencial will distinguish me as pagan neither religios nor sportif and so excluded perhaps from either Albergue de Peregrinos or Sports Hall mattress. If it comes it comes, like the cold wind from the East. I hope it won't.
I just had a look at the CSJ's (UK) model; apparently, they have two models. It's not easy to see the full design online but it is apparently also largely devoid of the topical references in the French and Spanish versions that have been mentioned in this thread and their (English) text contains just a fleeting reference to the vague and all encompassing "spiritual motivation" and only in connection with obtaining the Compostela and not the credencial/pilgrimage as such. I wasn't aware of this and I at least am pleased to have learnt about these differences.Castilian amigo I think I understand why you have raised the question - as one who walks the caminos in and with a loving heart but not a member of one of the monotheistic clubs - but let us not go any further in dividing ourselves into factions and types and classes
Wonder what would happen if Santiago only let the Catholic Church offices around the world issue credenciales instead of secular organisations that in the end are social clubs.
Would it take a bit of a toll on the holiday not a pilgrimage attitudes?
The more general credenciales are a bit like a decanter-- you can put different sorts of liquids in them.
I had the opportunity today to raise the issue of the wording on the new Spanish credencial with the Dean of the Cathedral who is in charge of pilgrims.
if you object to the wording of the credencial and feel strongly that it does not apply to you, don't use a credencial and don't expect to get a Compostela or Welcome Certificate in Santiago.
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