Dickwilbur
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances, Prim, VF (Twice), VDLP, Moz, Lev
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
You need a sign by the box that says this in big letters and in many languages.Donativo does not translate as free.
This sounds like an excellent method of reshaping expectations. If the expectation is "free" then nothing goes in the box. In the US one often sees the phrases "sliding scale" or "suggested donation" which might also be useful on your sign by the box.... the protocol on the via francigena in Italy where and explanation of the running costs crystallised into the cost per person, they suggest a figure and make clear an option of labour as an alternative is available on request.
Accommodations that are offended by the freeloaders should stop being Donativo.
Donativo does mean free in some cases.
I shall be a hospitalera in the donativo albergue in Najera in the second half of September. When I volunteered with the association, I was given one rule: I must never ask anyone for money or push them to make a donation. I agree totally with this requirement. Personally, I have never given less than 20 euros in a donativo albergue which provided food, because I can. I began going on camino because I was called to pilgrimage. Anything that might discourage other pilgrims called to pilgrimage would make my free donation of my time and work and travel expenses meaningless to me. But I would be very sad if the donativo albergues had to close because there were not enough funds coming in to keep them open. I cannot tell today's pilgrims that their donations provide tomorrow's dinner, but I wish that those who could afford to donate would do so, for the sake of future pilgrims. That said, I know that, as with many other threads about camino behaviour, I am preaching to the choir.
Repectfully parting company from you on this one, @falcon269 . Well-off cheapskates are very different from those who are walking on a wing and a prayer.Accommodations that are offended by the freeloaders should stop being Donativo. Charity with strings attached is just an ego trip.
I am also upset that people who can afford to make an appropriate donation choose to take advantage of donativo albergues. I find it distressing to think that future generations will read in guidebooks that this sort of hospitality disappeared, along with glaciers and rhinos because we were too selfish.How dare you, you freeloading b******s. The register gives the names for that night. I want to name and shame and damn the consequences, but the others giving their time and effort are more sanguine than I and have asked that I don't.
Exactly."suggested donation"
Hmmm. I doubt the OP would be so hot under the collar if that were the case. There's a tangible difference between a sincere pilgrim who happens not to have much fiscal cushion and a 'cheap holiday itinerant,' as he politely calls them.Maybe that one night with only 10 euros in the donativo box was because a group of relatively destitute pilgrims were spending that one night and feeling gratitude for a bed to sleep in and food to eat.
This was a point in his post that begs the question, and I think it's worth pondering: call it out to the people involved, at large, or what? And how?If you see blatant avoidance of contributing or worse, bragging of avoiding, call it out. Loudly.
Having calmed a bit since I first posted in a hot flush of indignation. It bought to mind the protocol on the via francigena in Italy where and explanation of the running costs crystallised into the cost per person, they suggest a figure and make clear an option of labour as an alternative is available on request
For clarity. The alburgue has no issues,. This is me, expressing my opinion. Feel free to take offense at me but leave the alburgue out of itI am also upset that people who can afford to make an appropriate donation choose to take advantage of donativo albergues. I find it distressing to think that future generations will read in guidebooks that this sort of hospitality disappeared, along with glaciers and rhinos because we were too selfish.
But I would not want a Donativo to survive if I heard that it had named and shamed previous pilgrims. In my opinion, this goes against the spirit of Donativo hospitality as much as freeloading does.
This sounds like an excellent method of reshaping expectations. If the expectation is "free" then nothing goes in the box. In the US one often sees the phrases "sliding scale" or "suggested donation" which might also be useful on your sign by the box.
Understood. And I get the fact that you needed to vent. Your frustration is well founded.For clarity. The alburgue has no issues,. This is me, expressing my opinion. Feel free to take offense at me but leave the alburgue out of it
The problem with a donativo box at the registration counter and writing down a recommended amount of money to donate (and maybe even asking to put the donativo in the box immediately) is that you'll put a lot of pressure not only on the tourists looking for a cheap vacation, but also on pilgrims who are really struggling financially.
You'll make that pilgrim who's really not able to pay feel very uncomfortable, like a thief, someone who is not welcome. Maybe they feel pressured to put the money in the box they had planned to spend the next day, in a town where there's only a more expensive private albergue, and no shop to buy food to prepare, but only a pricey pilgrim menu in the restaurant.
But the tourist who is just looking for a free place to sleep, they might ignore the signs and hints without even feeling bad about it.
In the end, you're punishing the wrong people. With this kind of procedure you end up like the 'donativos' on the Le Puy, where there‘s a fixed price, just that they call it donativo because it sounds better…
I don’t think most of them fail to pay. When they do, they already receive hostility. A sign bothers the sanctimonious, not the indigent.You'll make that pilgrim who's really not able to pay feel very uncomfortable
It made me feel uncomfortable and a bit pressured! The lady was keeping a close look on what people put in and her non verbal communication said enough
Rubbish. Easy to spot the difference. Look at their shoes/gear, for a starter, as well as their spendings in the nearest bar...The problem with a donativo box at the registration counter and writing down a recommended amount of money to donate (and maybe even asking to put the donativo in the box immediately) is that you'll put a lot of pressure not only on the tourists looking for a cheap vacation, but also on pilgrims who are really struggling financially.
Yeah, @good_old_shoes ...How do you know the expensive boots are not bought second hand on ebay? Or the backpack has been a gift from a friend or family member? Poverty is stigmatized, therefore people are often very good at hiding it. Judging people by just looking at their clothes and gear is quite superficial.
How do you know?How do you know the expensive boots are not bought second hand on ebay? Or the backpack has been a gift from a friend or family member? Poverty is stigmatized, therefore people are often very good at hiding it. Judging people by just looking at their clothes and gear is quite superficial.
Not very difficult, really. Too bad.How do you know?
In a word, attitude.
Hospis see people and how they are. They also see if they're going out in the evening to party. The OP's outrage in this case probably had roots in more than just a snap judgement based on clothes and gear.
That's not why that happens. It's not about the money per se. It's because people are being greedy and taking advantage when they can afford to be generous. And as a result it endangers the viability of something that's precious. That's why.Anyways, I understand that hospitaleros get angry at times because there are not always enough donations in the donativo box.
The problem is just what you state: The RISK of being a donativo albergue. Some people do not get it; that the albergue is offering you a refuge, and hoping; please, if you are able to help us, donate some money so we can keep on doing the good work.Shoes and gear was what was mentioned, and that's really not something you should judge people by. But I agree, the attitude of people can be a good indicator.
Anyways, I understand that hospitaleros get angry at times because there are not always enough donations in the donativo box. But that's the risk of a donativo albergue.
Respect that donativo means: give what you feel it is worth for that generous inclusion. You perfectly know that you are receiving something that is worth something. Pay some more for the generous hospitality/food you are receiving in a foreign land that welcomes you so generously.Yes, the concept of donativo albergues is precious. It's a huge part of what's making the Camino so special. BUT, pressuring people into making donations or "fixed prices" for donations are as much of a risk and danger to the donativo albergues and the "camino spirit" as the greedy people who take advantage of the donativos.
Just my opinion, of course. It is a difficult topic.
The difficulty is we have heart strings attached. We give and don’t ask to be thanked but a little gratitude is a big reward.Donativo does mean free in some cases. Accommodations that are offended by the freeloaders should stop being Donativo. Charity with strings attached is just an ego trip.
Q.E.D.I looked in the box when I left and it was all 1 euros even though most spent the evening at the bar.
It doesn't mystify me at all, because donativo requires both a giver and a recipient. The recipient's task is to surrender and trust. The donor's task is to balance what they can afford and what the heart wants to give, with honesty.The paradox of being donativo and resenting those who leave nothing mystifies me. It is as if they are trying to be seen as nice people, but really are not. If you want 8E to be able to keep a place open, then charge 8E up front.
It doesn't mystify me at all, because donativo requires both a giver and a recipient. The recipient's task is to surrender and trust. The donor's task is to balance what they can afford and what the heart wants to give, with honesty.
This takes the honest and sincere partcipation of both parties. But when people just take take take when they actually can afford to be generous, the system falls apart.
Repectfully parting company from you on this one, @falcon269 . Well-off cheapskates are very different from those who are walking on a wing and a prayer.
Donativo albergues were initially intended for people who could not afford other accomodation - not for entitled freeloaders who can afford airfares and tapas crawls but who somehow think it is OK to offer nothing for a bed and perhaps a meal. So I can totally understand the OP's outrage.
In large part it just points to the need for education. If people had any idea what albergues cost to run they might be more generous. So besides just a sign that "donativo is not free," there could be a list on a bulletin board someplace - noticible but separate from the donativo box - of actual costs, as a way of answering the question of how to decide what to offer.
Edit: here are the notices in the very nice donativo on the Vasco at Beasain; I thought they were perfect. There was no pushiness at all on the part of the hospitaleras but the notices made me want to offer more than usual.
I can see donativos expecting mostly pilgrims who can afford to pay, and expecting them to pay enough to cover their own costs and the costs of those who can't, because their funding is needed to keep the place afloat.
Or I can see albergues securing external funding because they are set up as a service for those who can't pay and are now being abused by people who can.
If the albergue is saying "give what you feel like giving; it doesn't matter to us" then they shouldn't complain or resent when pilgrims do just that
So (having not walked in Spain at all - my walks have been in CZ, DE, CH, and FR) apparently there is a mix of funding mechanisms, and therefore a mix of expectations. There are thousands of pilgrims walking, most of whom do not read this forum. Telepathy is not the best way of communicating. How are the different expectations communicated to pilgrims?I can see donativos expecting mostly pilgrims who can afford to pay, and expecting them to pay enough to cover their own costs and the costs of those who can't, because their funding is needed to keep the place afloat. Or I can see albergues securing external funding because they are set up as a service for those who can't pay and are now being abused by people who can.
Not that they can't pay, full stop, David, just that they can't afford the commercial alternatives. Sorry I was not clearBut to say that donativos were set up as an ongoing option for people who can't pay (and are thus not expecting significant funds from peregrino guests) and at the same time rely on peregrino funding to operate confuses me.
Donativo albergues were initially intended for people who could not afford other accomodation - not for entitled freeloaders who can afford airfares and tapas crawls but who somehow think it is OK to offer nothing for a bed and perhaps a meal. So I can totally understand the OP's outrage.
It has been asked before on the Forum how much is an appropriate amount and for that some guidance here is appreciated.
No, you're quite right. But I believe it's the idea behind albergues in general.I do not think, that this is the concept behind "donativo".
I love pilgrims. Most of them are wonderful, generous, spiritual seekers. I even kinda like tourists. But I deeply dislike the "you must give me everything for nothing because I am a pilgrim" attitude some of them carry along the camino... best summed-up this Fall by a young man in his hi-tech 200-€ boots who asked, "is this place donativo, or do I have to pay something?"
My neighbor, a now-unemployed truck driver, really dislikes pilgrims. He thinks they are the worst kind of freeloaders: foreigners who can afford to not work for six weeks and buy a ticket to Spain, but who have the cojones to wander up to his door and ask (or sometimes demand!) food and drink and toilet facilities. He said this very morning, "You call them pilgrims. I call them locusts. They land, they eat everything in sight and (defecate) on everything, and they disappear. What do we get? Nada."
The feelings are out there. Just so you know. Not everyone sees pilgrims as blessings. Especially the ones who will not/cannot pay their way.
That said, I return to my pre-Lenten meditation on the words of St. John Chrysostum: "We must be more kind than just. Kindness alone reconciles."
Following the discussions, one gets the impression that there’s a considerable number of very poor people on pilgrimage in Spain.
Ok, I hope you feel a bit better after your rant. I have just had a run through the thread indicated by VNwalking, with reference to Rebekah’s post. I have the possibility of spending money on caminos. I have walked three times: CF, 29 days. An average of 20 euro per day. CP, 2013, an average of 23 euro per day. Salvador, not sure, maybe an average of under 30, but the only splurge was the hotel on the final night, about 60 euro for 2, with a generous buffet breakfast. It is in my power to pay my way. For that, yes, I am thankful. I would not look to spend more than necessary. In donativos, my approach is the same as others who can pay the same as in other fixed price lodgings. One that stands out in my memory is Benduenos on the Salvador. It has a bathroom like in your own home! Full of this that and the next thing. And the hospitalera has a beautiful name. (Same as mine!) Such trust and generosity begets a positive response.I am frankly tee'd off at the behaviour of some pilgrims/tourigrinos/cheap holiday itinerants.
I stayed in a well known alburgue eleven days ago and am now back here as a volunteer. Having a chat with other voluntarios who have been here longer than I, I was given a resume of what tends to be in the box when opened the day after.
Frankly I am ashamed to hear that on one night, very recently, 12 people stayed, got a bed a shower and a communal meal along with a simple desayuno. And in the morning there was 10€ in the box.
How dare you. The register gives the names for that night. I want to name and shame and damn the consequences, but the others giving their time and effort are more sanguine than I and have asked that I don't.
I have no doubt this will be censured for my language but before it is lets state very clearly. Donativo does not translate as free. Whilst I acknowledge that the ethos can be interpreted as 'if all you can give are prayers'....... It is worth noting that 40% on the night in question stated that cultural or health was the reason for being on the Camino.
If you see blatant avoidance of contributing or worse, bragging of avoiding, call it out. Loudly.
Rant over
I understand that this is difficult to define ... whether in a more general way, be it globally or country specific, or in the special context of the Camino pilgrimage. I try to understand the issue where it goes beyond resenting the freeloaders, deploring the uninformed, and alluding to those in real financial need who, in addition, must not be identified as such, if I understand correctly.It depends on your criteria about "very poor”
So it would be easier to identify the donativos on the CF and who runs them and why. Perhaps there’s a list somewhere that I can look at?
Estella |
Albergue parroquial San Miguel |
Viana |
Albergue parroquial Santa María |
Logroño |
Albergue parroquial Santiago El Real |
Nájera |
Albergue de peregrinos de Nájera |
Grañón |
Albergue parroquial San Juan Bautista |
Albergue La Casa de las Sonrisas |
Belorado |
Albergue parroquial de Belorado |
Tosantos |
Albergue parroquial San Francisco de Asís |
Tardajos |
Albergue de peregrinos de Tardajos |
Convento de San Antón |
Albergue Hospital de peregrinos de San Antón |
Castrojeriz |
Refugio de peregrinos de San Juan |
Ermita de San Nicolás de Puente Fitero |
Albergue de San Nicolás de Puente Fitero |
Frómista |
Acogida de invierno Betania |
Villalcázar de Sirga |
Albergue de peregrinos Casa del Peregrino |
El Burgo Ranero |
Albergue de peregrinos Domenico Laffi |
Rabanal del Camino |
Refugio Gaucelmo |
Foncebadón |
Albergue parroquial Domus Dei |
Manjarín |
Refugio de Manjarín |
El Acebo de San Miguel |
Albergue parroquial Santiago Apóstol |
Ponferrada |
Albergue parroquial San Nicolás de Flüe |
Ligonde |
Albergue La Fuente del Peregrino |
Most people I read look at the value proposition of donativos as expressed above: how nice is the albergue, how nice are the hospitaleros, what have I received, to determine how much to donate with some adding extra to help cover the next pilgrim who can't afford as much. But I am starting to wonder if that is the best way to look at it.Interesting topic. I left 10 euros in Granon because the Hospital of San Juan Bautista was well worth it. In El Burgo Ranero and Samos I left 5 euros, becuase the officious little men who were running the place annoyed me.
Most people I read look at the value proposition of donativos as expressed above: how nice is the albergue, how nice are the hospitaleros, what have I received, to determine how much to donate with some adding extra to help cover the next pilgrim who can't afford as much. But I am starting to wonder if that is the best way to look at it.
It's a compelling image: paying forward, isn't it? The more I think about it the less convinced I am of the concept ... the host advanced the cash to buy tonight's food and tonight's guests are paying it back through their voluntary contributions ... I mean after all that's how it all started, on the very first day of operation.I know that Grañon they are careful to say that tonight's dinner is from the charity of last night's guests and what we donate will determine what can be offered for dinner tomorrow. Something along those lines but generalized to the hospitality overall and not just the dinner.
Just remembering staying in an albergue in Germany. No hospitalero, but a donation box and a note with the suggested donation, but saying people were free to give more. In addition there was a fridge with loads of beers, drinks and snacks - and a price list with suggested prices. The trust that was put in the pilgrim felt overwhelming. But I don't even dare to think how this could work out on the CF....
Thank you for this list, @Lirsy . I've now had an opportunity for a quick look through Gronze and your list appears fairly up to date, give or take a few. Quite a lot of the donativo albergues appear to be parochial albergues.This is what I have for the Camino Frances. I am not sure how updated is the list.
Estella Albergue parroquial San Miguel Viana Albergue parroquial Santa María Logroño Albergue parroquial Santiago El Real Nájera Albergue de peregrinos de Nájera Grañón Albergue parroquial San Juan Bautista Albergue La Casa de las Sonrisas Belorado Albergue parroquial de Belorado Tosantos Albergue parroquial San Francisco de Asís Tardajos Albergue de peregrinos de Tardajos Convento de San Antón Albergue Hospital de peregrinos de San Antón Castrojeriz Refugio de peregrinos de San Juan Ermita de San Nicolás de Puente Fitero Albergue de San Nicolás de Puente Fitero Frómista Acogida de invierno Betania Villalcázar de Sirga Albergue de peregrinos Casa del Peregrino El Burgo Ranero Albergue de peregrinos Domenico Laffi Rabanal del Camino Refugio Gaucelmo Foncebadón Albergue parroquial Domus Dei Manjarín Refugio de Manjarín El Acebo de San Miguel Albergue parroquial Santiago Apóstol Ponferrada Albergue parroquial San Nicolás de Flüe Ligonde Albergue La Fuente del Peregrino
Thank you for this list, @Lirsy . I've now had an opportunity for a quick look through Gronze and your list appears fairly up to date, give or take a few. Quite a lot of the donativo albergues appear to be parochial albergues.
Yes, I stayed there in May while a friend from home was working as hospitalera there. Very cozy place, and since there were only three of us staying we each had our own "room".Calzadilla de Los Hermanillos is a municipal albergue that is donativo.
Thanks for the list!
And may I add the following towns with albergue de peregrinos on the Via de la Plata where HOSVOL also provides volunteers:
Castilblanco de los Arroyos
Alcuéscar (monasterio)
Puerto de Béjar (municipal)
Salamanca
Zamora
In addition on the Plata there is a donativo in Fuenterroble de Salvatierra (Don Blas). And there are municipal donativo albergues in Grimaldo and Aldeanueva del Camino, which are looked after by neighbours.
I have been in all of these and liked the atmosphere.
The municipal in El Cubo tierra del vino was closed due to too little donations. Monica, the hospitalera, then decided to open her own private albergue (F y M) with a fixed price.
BC
Alexandra
Most people I read look at the value proposition of donativos as expressed above: how nice is the albergue, how nice are the hospitaleros, what have I received, to determine how much to donate with some adding extra to help cover the next pilgrim who can't afford as much. But I am starting to wonder if that is the best way to look at it.
A donativo is likely run by volunteers or people whose income is not dependent on pilgrim donations. The "officious little men" won't be rewarded more or less by the size of donation you leave. That will only affect what can be offered to the next pilgrims who come along. It is they who are being punished rather than the officious hospitaleros.
Perhaps we should reframe the proposition from "give according to the value of what you have received" to "give according to what you want pilgrims to receive here". The charity ceases being presented as what you are receiving from the albergue (which may incline people to give less - why pay for what is being freely given as charity?) and starts being presented as what you are offering to future pilgrims (which might incline people to give more, because don't we all want to help our fellow pilgrims as much as we are able?).
I know that Grañon they are careful to say that tonight's dinner is from the charity of last night's guests and what we donate will determine what can be offered for dinner tomorrow. Something along those lines but generalized to the hospitality overall and not just the dinner.
Absolutely. But maybe the reason they could only offer a roof and a bed was because pilgrims were only putting in 5 euros. Maybe if pilgrims were to start putting in 10 euros they would find themselves with some extra money and perhaps also start offering tea and cookies (biscuits if you speak British English). Or bowls of fruit. Or something else extra. These are not for profit enterprises, after all. It is not unreasonable to expect that, faced with a surplus of funds, they would spend them on pilgrims.The two places I mentioned offered nothing except a roof and a bed. As it was, 5 euros was commensurate with what several municipal albergues charged and was all I felt they were worth. Granon is a totally different story. My favourite albergue of them all.
Absolutely. But maybe the reason they could only offer a roof and a bed was because pilgrims were only putting in 5 euros. Maybe if pilgrims were to start putting in 10 euros they would find themselves with some extra money and perhaps also start offering tea and cookies (biscuits if you speak British English). Or bowls of fruit. Or something else extra. These are not for profit enterprises, after all. It is not unreasonable to expect that, faced with a surplus of funds, they would spend them on pilgrims.
"All I felt they were worth" is certainly the common paradigm for looking at the donativo transaction. I'm just suggesting another possible paradigm, based not on what current services are worth but on what you would like to contribute towards future pilgrims.
PS If you like Grañon, you might want to give the donativo in Tosantos a try. While I haven't been there myself, I've heard it offers a very similar experience.
what do 'officious little men' look like?Interesting topic. I left 10 euros in Granon because the Hospital of San Juan Bautista was well worth it. In El Burgo Ranero and Samos I left 5 euros, becuase the officious little men who were running the place annoyed me.
Easy to recognize. Small, obviously. Perhaps a little panicky 'cos its their first day of volunteering. They'll likely be trying to remember all the "rules" they got told by the last shift who have now all left the building. They'll likely respond to requests for bending of the rules in an unbending sort of way. And they'll be tired on the next day & maybe a bit grumpy 'cos some pilg will have blocked a toilet or a shower drain and another will have lost an earring and is on their 'phone demanding a thorough search...what do 'officious little men' look like?
what do 'officious little men' look like?
I guess they can look like anything, but that attitude was officious, IMHO.I had a copy of the photo page of my passport stuck inside the front cover of my credential. This was accepted everywhere except for the two donativos I mentioned, where the bloke insisted I show my "real" passport. One even accused me of presenting a false passport and told me I could be arrested in Spain for having such a document.A small thing but the attitude pissed me off.
Culture clash!I had a copy of the photo page of my passport stuck inside the front cover of my credential. This was accepted everywhere except for the two donativos I mentioned, where the bloke insisted I show my "real" passport. One even accused me of presenting a false passport and told me I could be arrested in Spain for having such a document.A small thing but the attitude pissed me off.
This is not the reason. The reason is current law. It stipulates that everyone - or at least every foreigner - who stays at a hotel, casa rural, albergue etc has to show an official legal ID document and be registered with their personal data including the number of the ID document. I don't know when this law in its present form came into force in Spain but it is the law now. It's the same situation in many other countries now. So in fact the request to present your passport may be made in an officious manner but it is an official request. They don't do this out of a whim or on the basis of internal rules, they do it because it is requested of them from the Spanish authorities.I would not call this officious. The rules, which are printed in the credential as well, are obvious. The credetial is only valid in combination with an official document, proving the identity (passport or DNI). This rule is to prevent fraud, which to me seems particularily important in albergues working on a donativo-system. They do not want people to benefit from a system which was intended for pilgrims, but do not fulfill the conditions of a pilgrim.
First time I hear this. And I have my doubts even when friends who volunteer as hospitaleros have said so. It is definitely not mentioned in my credentials which are issued by the Fédération Française des Associations des Chemins de St-Jacques de Compostelle. I have not bothered to check the text in the credentials issued by the Santiago Cathedral themselves.It is also mentioned in the credential itself, that it is only valid in combination with an official document giving evidence of your identity. And this seems to have the reasons I have stated above (at least this was what some friends who volunteer as hospitaleros told me).
Of course not, why should they? A number of private pilgrims albergues state very clearly that they are "oriented towards pilgrims but not exclusively for pilgrims".Private albergues sometimes do not even ask for your passport, but this is their decision.
I'm currently pursuing some thoughts of my own about the Christian idea of charity, be it medieval or contemporary ...I think this is a special issue of donativo and municipal/public albergues, as homeless people can not afford a stay a more expensive private albergue or even a hostal.
If that's the case then it is an interesting conundrum, isn't it? Because they behave - seen from the outside - exactly like any other pilgrim. And I don't get the logic of the reasoning that says that they have to show their ID to make sure that they are the person entitled to hold a credential ... they've got a credential with the required stamps to document their movements and they got these stamps exactly like any other person moving along the road with them. Does this qualify as fraud ("This rule is to prevent fraud, which to me seems particularily important in albergues working on a donativo-system. They do not want people to benefit from a system which was intended for pilgrims, but do not fulfill the conditions of a pilgrim")?My friend Nikolaus, who worked as a hospitalero quite often in the albergue Santiago Apostol in El Acebo and in the big albergue Nikolaus de Flue in Ponferrada said, that this is really an issue for them. Homeless People (and by this I do not mean People being unemployed between 2 jobs and having given up their flat on purpose) moving forward on the camino and "living" on various caminos, plan their stages from one donativo to another, as they can not affort spending 10 or 12 Euro per night.
@Via2010, I am finally convinced now: you are not going to let go of this point of view. And I could go on but I won't.the requirement that you have to present your ID with your credencial is to make sure (...)
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?