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Real-world data collected by the FAA show that some high-quality GPS SPS receivers currently provide better than 3 meter horizontal accuracy.
Galileo is a global navigation satellite system (GNSS) currently being built by the European Union (EU) and European Space Agency (ESA). The €5 billion project is named after the Italian astronomer Galileo Galilei. One of the aims of Galileo is to provide a high-precision positioning system upon which European nations can rely, independently from the Russian GLONASS, US GPS, and Chinese Compass systems, which can be disabled in times of war or conflict.
When in operation, it will use two ground operations centres near Munich in Germany and in Fucino in Italy. In December 2010, EU ministers in Brussels voted Prague in the Czech Republic as the headquarters of the Galileo project.
On 21 October 2011, the first two of four operational satellites were launched to validate the system. The next two followed on 12 October 2012, making it "possible to test Galileo end-to-end". Once this In-Orbit Validation (IOV) phase has been completed, additional satellites will be launched to reach Initial Operational Capability (IOC) around mid-decade. Full completion of the 30-satellite Galileo system (27 operational and three active spares) is expected by 2019.
Basic navigation services will be free of charge. Galileo is intended to provide horizontal and vertical position measurements within 1-metre precision, and better positioning services at high latitudes than other positioning systems.
This is just plain wrong. Selective availability has been turned off since 2000, and the latest GPS satellites are not fitted with selective availability hardware. Garmin's public position on using the GLONASS network is that it reduces the time required to acquire satellites. I haven't looked at what other GPS makers say about their dual GPS/GLONASS enabled devices, but it clearly won't be about overcoming something that isn't there any longer.I don't know about the particular GPS unit that was compared to the apps, but many GPS units make use of the Russian GPS network as a complement to the US network because, unlike the US network, it doesn't introduce random noise into the readings.
There is a wikipedia article on GPS errors that gives a rather technical explanation of where they arise. I rather suspect there would be a greater chance of operator error with a map and compass, given the relatively little operator input most GPSs have that would affect positional accuracy.Who actually relies on their GPS? I certainly don't,I use it as a backup to more reliable map & compass. Has anyone thought it could be operator error that might be causing unusual readings etc.? ......Vicrev
I agree!!!I am just not convinced that they are good enough all the time to replace a dedicated GPS unit.
Mine got me out of a eucalyptus forest after I took a wrong turn. While it did not have the forest trails in it, it had the road maps for Spain, so I could follow the arrow to get to one. A topo map would have been of less use since I did not know where I was in the woods...Who actually relies on their GPS?
This is just plain wrong. Selective availability has been turned off since 2000, and the latest GPS satellites are not fitted with selective availability hardware. Garmin's public position on using the GLONASS network is that it reduces the time required to acquire satellites. I haven't looked at what other GPS makers say about their dual GPS/GLONASS enabled devices, but it clearly won't be about overcoming something that isn't there any longer.
Regards,
see http://blogs.esri.com/esri/arcgis/2013/07/15/smartphones-tablets-and-gps-accuracy/ for an up-to-date assessment of smartphone accuracy. For me, the key difference is that gps is not a smartphone's primary purpose, so the aim is not accuracy but producing something that's good enough for everyday purposes without chewing up the batteriesPerhaps its bias, but I have used several different Garmin handheld models over about a decade, and would be inclined to trust the Garmin over a smartphone.
http://www.egnos-portal.eu/discover-egnos/about-egnosFalcon - GPS accuracy of less than 3m is only available with the WAAS network, ie in the continential US. Elsewhere, the stated signal accuracy is 15m
indeed. To reduce this ad absurdum, take a reading, walk round the block, return to where you started, then take another reading, and ask it how far you've walked: it'll tell you you haven't gone anywhere, your position hasn't changed. This has nothing to do with accuracy of GPS. A GPS app doesn't measure how far you've walked; it measures the straight-line distance between points.The other issue is that this is a spot accuracy, and tracks made up of a series of spot readings can have other errors related to how often the spots are recorded, and how the distances are calculated.
There's an identical issue if you measure distances on a map, either using the good old-fashioned piece of string, or clicking on an online map. The more detailed the map, the more points you will use, and the longer will be the distance. This is similar to the celebrated 'coastline paradox' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox - how long is the coastline? Depends. There is no definitive answer. How long is this route? Depends. There is no definitive answer.go to something like google maps and plot out the route.
I carried a hand-held GPS to record my track and allow me to geo-tag my photos when I returned home. There are smaller, specialist GPS loggers available that can do the same thing. I think I used it for navigation twice - when I got lost leaving SJPP and later leaving Foncebadon when I went of a ridge line the wrong way, and followed one of the GR trails for a while.Maybe I am totally off subject here (most likely – smiley). But my head is kind of reeling at the thought of the necessity of bringing a GPS to the Camino which is so well marked.
Maybe I am totally off subject here (most likely – smiley). But my head is kind of reeling at the thought of the necessity of bringing a GPS to the Camino which is so well marked?
Yes, I admit I missed a sign or two – but only because I was in deep thought – no problem, - my deviations when realized (no pilgrims in sight!) were only a couple of kms and the landscape was always great. – I wonder what I would have missed if I had regularly/constantly felt a need to consult a GPS.
annelise
As an alternative to a paper map and magnetic compass, a GPS is quite real - nothing virtual about it at all. But an essential tool for use on the CF it isn't. Therefore, it's a toy in that context.It's gone from a virtual replacement of map & compass to a toy !!!......Amazing !!!......Vicrev
no. I would doubt whether any map or gps software includes elevation in distance calculation. Complicates the calculations without providing much benefit. Few walking routes are steep enough to add much to the distance.Is google map calculating with elevation.
with a smartphone, you have all 3. Takes up considerably less space and weighs less too. Plus you can use it for getting info, booking tickets, email, making notes, listening to music or to the radio, watching tv ... hey, you can even talk with people using it.I would only use (and I do) aGPS as a back up to map & compass
I absolutely rely on my GPS. I don't even bring a map and compass ( I have all of those in my phone and GPS). And yes, I know how to use a map, I have spent my life as a geologist working with them, drawing them, recreating with them.Who actually relies on their GPS? I certainly don't,I use it as a backup to more reliable map & compass. Has anyone thought it could be operator error that might be causing unusual readings etc.? ......Vicrev
I would like to use Android Smartphone to track my route, and as a backup in case I get lost.
Is there an App / Website where I can access (or download in advance) maps of the Camino Frances ?
Enabling data roaming would be expensive, so these maps need to be available offline.
Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks !
there is an offline mobile version of all my maps; with the GPS option it fetches all the routes that are in your vicinity. That is online though. See my blog post for more on the issues with this http://blog.peterrobins.co.uk/2012/08/maps-on-mobile-devices-current-status.html"...There have been threads discussing the path and Google maps. I'm fairly sure that the trails are already marked some place on Google maps. Even if I can't remember which thread ..."
For a discussion with links to the Camino Frances on Google maps see this encyclopedic site of veteran Forum poster Peter Robins >>http://pilgrim.peterrobins.co.uk/routes/details/frances.html. Scan to the bottom of his page to choose and view the relevant maps.
One small question: are the GPS and all the iPhone Apps reading the same lat/long and altitude at the start? If not then they can never produce similar distance data. CheersI recall that some have posted suggestions for various apps that work with the iPhone or other teléfonos inteligentes, so I thought I would share the results of an experiment I did yesterday while on a training hike for the Camino. I hiked a mountainous section of a trail here in Western North Carolina using a handheld Garmin GPS as well as these apps on my iPhone: GPS Kit, Runkeeper, MapMyHike, and ViewRanger. After something less than four hours of hiking, I could see that I was losing battery power in the iPhone and that it would not last for the duration of the hike, so I wrote down the readings at that particular point in the trail. So how does one know which is the more accurate? The Garmin has what seems to be a better antenna and was on my belt as I walked, more exposed to the sky. The iPhone was in my pocket, though of course all the apps on it were subjected to the same conditions.
I don't really plan to use any of these for my Camino trek next month, but I know some people like to use a GPS, so I thought there may be interest in such a wide variation among devices.
Distance measurement is a relative measure, and won't rely on the absolute position at the start or end point being the same on two devices. There are many reasons why the difference measured by two devices might vary, but differences in indicated absolute start position shouldn't be one of them.One small question: are the GPS and all the iPhone Apps reading the same lat/long and altitude at the start? If not then they can never produce similar distance data. Cheers
One small question: are the GPS and all the iPhone Apps reading the same lat/long and altitude at the start? If not then they can never produce similar distance data. Cheers
You might find that changing datums is not an option on smartphone apps. Certainly I cannot find a way of doing this on the OSM and Google android apps installed on my phone.They should be showing same lat/long ... if they are not then the datum on one (or both) needs to be changed to the local datum.
You might find that changing datums is not an option on smartphone apps. Certainly I cannot find a way of doing this on the OSM and Google android apps installed on my phone.
It is an option for dedicated GPS units, and for Spain, European 1979 would be the local datum of preference. If that is not available, the earlier European 1950 or WGS84 are good alternatives.
I haven't used my current smartphone outside of Australia, but didn't find there were problems with my previous Nokia app once it had acquired sufficient satellites. I didn't need a different app just because I was travelling.I don't own a smartphone so I don't know how apps work ... perhaps the app is location specific ... ie if you buy the app in Oz then its good for Oz datum only. So perhaps an app that works on Spains datum might be needed too. Of course it might just be a matter of being satisfied with the GPS reading showing you 100 meters or more from where you are on the map ... As pointed out GPS accuracy is not needed on the camino.
I'm not sure what you mean by datum.
it's not necessary. GPS, OSM and Google all use WGS84You might find that changing datums is not an option on smartphone apps. Certainly I cannot find a way of doing this on the OSM and Google android apps installed on my phone.
I think the point being made about changing the datum was in the context of relating a GPS position to a topographic map. Certainly here in Australia, it can be important if one is using older maps. For modern Australian mapping, it appears that there is marginal difference (for handheld GPS use by walkers) between WGS84 and GDA, but the national mapping authority states that for older mapping the difference is about 200m compared to WGS84.it's not necessary. GPS, OSM and Google all use WGS84
not sure people aren't confusing different things. The GPS system uses WGS84. GPS devices (and apps) may convert data from one datum/projection to another to be compatible with maps using a different one, but that has nothing to do with GPS itself.
yes, if you want to use non-wgs84 latlon coordinates on paper maps with the gps readings from a phone/tablet, you would use one of the various apps that can display the readings in a different datum. However, as I say, this is not changing the GPS datum per se, but converting the GPS reading into a different datum.I think the point being made about changing the datum was in the context of relating a GPS position to a topographic map. Certainly here in Australia, it can be important if one is using older maps. For modern Australian mapping, it appears that there is marginal difference (for handheld GPS use by walkers) between WGS84 and GDA, but the national mapping authority states that for older mapping the difference is about 200m compared to WGS84.
It is possible that the app developers of OSM and Google didn't think that this was important - if you have their maps loaded, you wouldn't also be using paper based topo maps. If so, I think they might be right.
I have downloaded this app onto two different Android devices just to see what it can do. It's certainly one of the better smartphone/tablet apps I have used, although I have my doubts about the accuracy of the compass, which I could not get to calibrate properly at all. It works pretty well with my Asus Google 7, less well on a Medion smartphone. Getting an initial fix is slow on both, many times that of my Garmin eTrex30 or even an older Garmin eTrex Legend Cx.I use GPS Essentials on an Android phone. It allows you to change the datum easily, it's just in the settings menu.
This is where dedicated GPS units come into their own. My Garmin eTrex30 runs for about 16 hours on two good AA batteries, a little less on cheaper ones. None of the smartphones that I have carried would be able to keep a day's track, and I wasn't prepared to take the risk that I would not be able to recharge at night.Leaving aside using a smart phone for navigation (I'm comfortable with maps), how does one solve the battery problem? I thought it might be nice to have a track recorded of my actual journey...wrong turns and all.
As an experiment I took a walk today and pulled the SIM to shut off the cellular antenna, turned off WiFi and Bluetooth. I then ran the Endomondo app while walking (display shut off). After an hour, I had a nice track on the map but 15% of my battery was gone. Battery-based rechargers are heavy and solar rechargers probably couldn't keep up. My phone is an iPhone 4S; are the 5 models a lot better at battery usage such that one could use it an entire day?
If not, are the phones simply limited to spot checks, i.e., navigation?
As an experiment I took a walk today and pulled the SIM to shut off the cellular antenna, turned off WiFi and Bluetooth. I then ran the Endomondo app while walking (display shut off). After an hour, I had a nice track on the map but 15% of my battery was gone. Battery-based rechargers are heavy and solar rechargers probably couldn't keep up. My phone is an iPhone 4S; are the 5 models a lot better at battery usage such that one could use it an entire day?
If not, are the phones simply limited to spot checks, i.e., navigation?
Don't cruise missiles often miss the target they are intended for with disasterous consequences!More reliable map and compass? When was the last time you saw a cruise missile reading a map?
Don't cruise missiles often miss the target they are intended for with disasterous consequences!
I walked the Camino from SJPdP to Santiago this fall, using an iPhone 5 and the MotionX GPS app. I downloaded all the maps in advance and used MotionX GPS to track each day's walk. Did fairly typical distances, 20 - 30 k, turned off cellular data, and never ran out of battery. At the end of a long day, I'd still have at least 15 - 20%.Leaving aside using a smart phone for navigation (I'm comfortable with maps), how does one solve the battery problem? I thought it might be nice to have a track recorded of my actual journey...wrong turns and all.
As an experiment I took a walk today and pulled the SIM to shut off the cellular antenna, turned off WiFi and Bluetooth. I then ran the Endomondo app while walking (display shut off). After an hour, I had a nice track on the map but 15% of my battery was gone. Battery-based rechargers are heavy and solar rechargers probably couldn't keep up. My phone is an iPhone 4S; are the 5 models a lot better at battery usage such that one could use it an entire day?
If not, are the phones simply limited to spot checks, i.e., navigation?
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