Kitsambler
Jakobsweg Junkie
- Time of past OR future Camino
- SJPP 2023
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Peg was doing a small research study at a fast food restaurant where she asked people where they lived by having them point to a local map with labeled streets and with the restaurant clearly pointed out. About 10% couldn't do it. At least 10% she emphasizes.I was a bit horrified at the statistic quoted here, but I suppose it must be an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...alabama-meteorologist/?utm_term=.27d5fb3aec60
Are you comfortable with reading maps?
They may have them on their phones, but I think they aren't using them, except for step by step directions, a la gps.I noticed this long before google maps. I would think that map usage is greater now, when everyone has one on their phone.
I was a bit horrified at the statistic quoted here, but I suppose it must be an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...alabama-meteorologist/?utm_term=.27d5fb3aec60
Are you comfortable with reading maps?
I was a bit horrified at the statistic quoted here, but I suppose it must be an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...alabama-meteorologist/?utm_term=.27d5fb3aec60
Are you comfortable with reading maps?
Think Brierley's guides.Did you know that most all maps are printed with a northern orientation? That means that the TOP of the map, as you are looking at it right side up, is almost always to the north...
If this is not correct for the map you are looking at, there is most always a 'compass rose' showing the correct direction, and printed in a margin.
I am comfortable reading maps but not this one found in our last hour of walking from SJPdP to Muxia:
I looked at that sign hard and close. I swear I saw no sign of fading though that would have made the most sense.If that's not a problem of colour fading, then maybe it was a problem of the funds running out before the map was finished.
I was a bit horrified at the statistic quoted here, but I suppose it must be an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...alabama-meteorologist/?utm_term=.27d5fb3aec60
Are you comfortable with reading maps?
I never learned banking and how to arrange utilities in school. Cursive writing, yes, but I'm not sure that it should be considered a basic life skill.at least regarding what used to be called basic survival skill in life...you know, like cursive writing and basic life skills, like banking...and arranging for utilities, etc. Things like this used to be taught universally in the schools here in the US.
Ahaha! "Use a map" - that I can do. I have successfully found my way through many cities and countries, often with a help of a map. But not sure if I am up to the standards implied in this thread.I'm going to bet right now that a majority of the people on this planet don't know how to use a map.
I never learned banking and how to arrange utilities in school. Cursive writing, yes, but I'm not sure that it should be considered a basic life skill.
I don't think I learned "map-reading" in school either, although we learned about N-S-E-W and looked at maps of the world and our province. Is that "map reading"?
Ahaha! "Use a map" - that I can do. I have successfully found my way through many cities and countries, often with a help of a map. But not sure if I am up to the standards implied in this thread.
The main difference between that and Google Maps is the important folding procedure.If you learned to use an old school, gas station road map, that counts
Way more comfortable than with a GPS.Are you comfortable with reading maps?
Bwahahahaaaaaa. Totally love it."But you took the batteries out . . . !"
"And? Let me introduce you to a piece of paper and a compass."
Nothing surprises me anymore. It seems to me at least, that each successive generation is getting dumb and dumber...at least regarding what used to be called basic survival skill in life...you know, like cursive writing and basic life skills, like banking...and arranging for utilities, etc. Things like this used to be taught universally in the schools here in the US. Presently, not so much... sigh... but I digress...
Did you know that most all maps are printed with a northern orientation? That means that the TOP of the map, as you are looking at it right side up, is almost always to the north...
If this is not correct for the map you are looking at, there is most always a 'compass rose' showing the correct direction, and printed in a margin.
That means that the TOP of the map, as you are looking at it right side up, is almost always to the north
Although it wasn't always so. In medieval Europe EAST was at the top of the map because that's where Jerusalem is (relative to Europe) and that's why we orient our maps - originally turn them so that the top of the map points east.
A few years back I was involved in designing the storm drainage system for the extension works on Jeddah Airport. The compass rose on our construction drawings had five points: North, East, South, West and . . . Mekkah! One of my colleagues even had a Quiblah Compass so he could face Mekkah for daily prayers.
I love maps. I was very much into motor rallying in Southern Ireland in the 60s and 70s. We had Ordnance Survey maps of 1/2 inch to the mile - Ireland never had the 1 inch of the UK - navigating using them and a list of 6 figure map references was highly skilled and very much part of the competition. Coupled with the fact that as many as half of the roads marked no longer existed! So I am quite at home with any sufficiently detailed map, but now with a phone and GPS that skill is redundant. Oh well...Way more comfortable than with a GPS.
But then I am edging up to the age when people are called 'old.'
Bwahahahaaaaaa. Totally love it.
A brain is often more accurate than a machine, and it doesn't require batteries either, just cafe con leche and a bit of tortilla every once in a while. You have to know how to use it, though.
But I digress into smugness.
yay! Scotland! Dare I?The walking group I belong to hosts a map reading course once a year in order to encourage new walk leaders. It's always very well attended (it's held above a pub for the theory, then lunch, then the practical on a walk in the countryside) but generates only a few new leaders each time.
More and more often attendees arrive with their shiny new GPSr (we do electronic as well as paper mapping) so I take the batteries out, hand them back and ask the owners to show me how it works.
"But you took the batteries out . . . !"
"And? Let me introduce you to a piece of paper and a compass."
For our UK readers with an interest in maps can I point you towards the tremendous effort the National Library of Scotland have put into digitising old Ordnance Survey maps? They have a set up whereby you can view 19th century maps of the UK alongside present day satellite images:
View attachment 55133
Boy were those surveyors accurate!
Play with it HERE
yay! Scotland! Dare I?
And God created.......
In the beginning, The Lord God Almighty, sitting on His throne on high, turned to His mate, the Archangel Gabriel and said "Gabby, today I'm going to create Scotland. I will make it a country of dark beautiful mountains, purple glens and rich green forests. I will give it clear swift flowing rivers and I will fill them with salmon. The land shall be lush and fertile, on which the people shall grow barley to brew into an amber nectar that will be much sought after the world over. Underneath the land I shall lay rich seams of coal.In the waters around the shores there will be an abundance of fish and beneath the sea bed there will be vast deposits of oil and gas".
"Excuse me Sire", interrupted the Archangel Gabriel, "Don't you think you are being a bit too generous to these Scots"?"Not really", replied the Lord, "wait 'til you see the neighbours I'm giving them".
You almost got it right except God was creating Canada at the time and you left out the part about Him introducing beaver all over the country to build dams here, there and everywhere - that's right, CANADA the best dammed country in the World . . . (Told to me by a Canadian in the early 1980s)yay! Scotland! Dare I?
And God created.......
In the beginning, The Lord God Almighty, sitting on His throne on high, turned to His mate, the Archangel Gabriel and said "Gabby, today I'm going to create Scotland. I will make it a country of dark beautiful mountains, purple glens and rich green forests. I will give it clear swift flowing rivers and I will fill them with salmon. The land shall be lush and fertile, on which the people shall grow barley to brew into an amber nectar that will be much sought after the world over. Underneath the land I shall lay rich seams of coal.In the waters around the shores there will be an abundance of fish and beneath the sea bed there will be vast deposits of oil and gas".
"Excuse me Sire", interrupted the Archangel Gabriel, "Don't you think you are being a bit too generous to these Scots"?"Not really", replied the Lord, "wait 'til you see the neighbours I'm giving them".
and you believed the Canadian? Really?You almost got it right except God was creating Canada at the time and you left out the part about Him introducing beaver all over the country to build dams here, there and everywhere - that's right, CANADA the best dammed country in the World . . . (Told to me by a Canadian in the early 1980s)
You are Paddy Hopkirk and I claim my pint of Murphy's Stout!I love maps. I was very much into motor rallying in Southern Ireland in the 60s and 70s. We had Ordnance Survey maps of 1/2 inch to the mile - Ireland never had the 1 inch of the UK - navigating using them and a list of 6 figure map references was highly skilled and very much part of the competition. Coupled with the fact that as many as half of the roads marked no longer existed! So I am quite at home with any sufficiently detailed map, but now with a phone and GPS that skill is redundant. Oh well...
We are ra people... just joking. We are a' Jock Tampson's bairns... deo gratias.You are Paddy Hopkirk and I claim my pint of Murphy's Stout!
Was that the kind of rallying where you had a pig in the boot and "got lost" near the border?
A few years ago I met up with a team from Ordnance Survey Ireland at a trade show in Dublin. They told me that a side benefit of the GFA was that cross border roads could be seamlessly mapped as some of the OSI and OSGB maps showed them misaligned.
I naively suggested that, when you went out on site, you could see the roads connected smoothly.
"Ah sure," the man said, "but it's not our roads that were wrong!"
If you go to the National Library of Scotland site I referred to above, specifically THIS BIT you can wallow in nostalgia as you compare modern satellite mapping with a paper map of the early 1940s. Covers the whole of Ireland: north, south, east and west! Use the cursor arrow on either side and the two maps move in tandem.
View attachment 55231
Bien sûr! Sauf qu'il venait de cette partie du Canada qui n'est pas vraiment le Canada - le Québec! View attachment 55232
Well, it is redundant only until the batteries go flat.now with a phone and GPS that skill is redundant.
Just hop over. The pint will be on me. Just try to make it around 10th or 11th July...You are Paddy Hopkirk and I claim my pint of Murphy's Stout!
Was that the kind of rallying where you had a pig in the boot and "got lost" near the border?
A few years ago I met up with a team from Ordnance Survey Ireland at a trade show in Dublin. They told me that a side benefit of the GFA was that cross border roads could be seamlessly mapped as some of the OSI and OSGB maps showed them misaligned.
I naively suggested that, when you went out on site, you could see the roads connected smoothly.
"Ah sure," the man said, "but it's not our roads that were wrong!"
If you go to the National Library of Scotland site I referred to above, specifically THIS BIT you can wallow in nostalgia as you compare modern satellite mapping with a paper map of the early 1940s. Covers the whole of Ireland: north, south, east and west! Use the cursor arrow on either side and the two maps move in tandem.
View attachment 55231
Ask them where the low country's are .I just remembered another case of what I am considering bad map reading although it could also be considered lack of geographical knowledge.
There was a map of the world, black borders on a white background and no labeling but six countries were colored in. Off to the side were the names of the six countries. These were not obscure ones either. I remember Japan being one for example. A relative could not find South Africa.
Isn't (wasn't) he Australian?View attachment 55235 mind those Canucks!
Holland? It's in Lincolnshire, England - no?Ask them where the low country's are .
Correct , that would be South Holland .Holland? It's in Lincolnshire, England - no?
Let’s quote The Way: It’s not much if it’s not Dutch.You almost got it right except God was creating Canada at the time and you left out the part about Him introducing beaver all over the country to build dams here, there and everywhere - that's right, CANADA the best dammed country in the World . . . (Told to me by a Canadian in the early 1980s)
True.Let’s quote The Way: It’s not much if it’s not Dutch.
Back in the early 1990s I made a sponsored walk around quite a lot of Scotland to raise money for a church charitable fund. Parts of my route took me through areas where active forestry meant that what was on the ground and what was on paper were sometimes a little different. When I finished I wrote an article for a church newspaper which I titled "Lies, damned lies, and Ordnance Survey maps"We made beautiful, detailed and superbly accurate maps.
Never heard it called a Pop-eye before but I've got one upstairs! And "casting a chain", could never get that right. Got very confused in Canada when I was told to "go get the Transit" - which is a van right? No, it's a North American breed of Theodolite!My first posting in the Civil Service was to the Ordnance Survey. With Theodolite and Chain, Pop-eye (a device that let you view three point simultaneously in a 180 degree arc, Plan Board and a Rotring pen we put the UK of the 1970's back on the map. I did Basildon New Town and Milton Keynes and bits of the Brecon Beacons.
We made beautiful, detailed and superbly accurate maps. But our maps didn't have a little pulsing dot that told you where you were - you had to work that out yourself - though I think we worked with the assumption that if you were lost you would probably be able to work that out for yourself without our help
I shouldn't tease - our European cousins have been so kind to us (UK) recently.Correct , that would be South Holland .
No. But I did get to move the summit of an obscure Welsh hill about two metres to the West and up by a metre.Proper surveying. Did you ever get to write your name on a cliff face?
Do you think that Hugh Grant did you justice in the movie version?No. But I did get to move the summit of an obscure Welsh hill about two metres to the West and up by a metre.
I wondered where they put itNo. But I did get to move the summit of an obscure Welsh hill about two metres to the West and up by a metre.
That must have been frustrating. Just get the contours all neatly filled in and some silly sod goes and blows a 100m crater in the middle of your patch. I hope they were using pencil rather than ink....Most of the OS was out in Flanders helping the Artillery re-arrange that landscape.
ok, so the country from whence came my recently arrived trampers friend! Yeah! the capital city: Dunedin. Origin? Edinburgh.... or is my primary school memory beginning to fail me....Well, it is redundant only until the batteries go flat.
@kirkie...That first post - Hahahaaaa!
I know better than to step in the middle of a discussion about the relative merits of any country on earth. But there's only one country nicknamed "Godzone."
And it has a really big moat around it.
Oh dear. I failed Geography as well...but isn’t there a Dunedin somewhere Down Under?..Ummmm...not quite.
The capital city starts with a W.
There used to be. I remember seeing one in 2016.Oh dear. I failed Geography as well...but isn’t there a Dunedin somewhere Down Under?..
I live in the province of South Holland in the Netherlands.I shouldn't tease - our European cousins have been so kind to us (UK) recently.
It wasn't until fairly recently that I found out you have a "South Holland" too.I live in the province of South Holland in the Netherlands.
Oh , your not teasing.
So you just get the theodolite bubble set and an artillery salvo makes you start all over again!I just surveyed the bloody thing. I do not recall hordes of native hauling baskets of sod. And anyway that was (reputed) to have occurred in1917 not 1970. Most of the OS was out in Flanders helping the Artillery re-arrange that landscape.
Presumably some form of Community Service? Or did you just draw the short straw?I did Basildon New Town and Milton Keynes
Don’t think I’d call that a mapI am comfortable reading maps but not this one found in our last hour of walking from SJPdP to Muxia:
“World’s worst map”. My goodness! Is that a gentle reminder to perigrinos of how little one really needs?I am comfortable reading maps but not this one found in our last hour of walking from SJPdP to Muxia:
I saw a map board (I have a photo somewhere) that was totally blank/white except for a black circle and the words either "Ud. Está aqui" or "You are here". I can't remember which - good excuse to review a few thousand photos.“World’s worst map”
I saw a map board ... that was totally blank/white except for a black circle and the words either "Ud. Está aqui" or "You are here".
When you find it print out a copy and always carry it with you - you'll never be lost again!I saw a map board (I have a photo somewhere) that was totally blank/white except for a black circle and the words either "Ud. Está aqui" or "You are here". I can't remember which - good excuse to review a few thousand photos.
When you find it print out a copy and always carry it with you - you'll never be lost again!
this is absolutely A1 and gave me the bestest laugh ever...For some reason your comment reminded me of a classic piece of Goonery about always knowing the time because it is written on a piece of paper...
@Jeff Crawley26 degrees? WOW! Where I am (SE corner of England) magnetic declination is just +0° 11' - so not really worth worrying about.
Back in the 1970s I stayed in a motel in NW Ontario for 6 weeks (we were surveying for a new road) and they had a poster sized picture of a lake on the wall on the dining room. It looked stunning and I asked where it was and how I could get there.
"She's called Lake Louise and she's 'bout 1000 miles that way" (jerking thumb to the west).
Asked why they had a picture of an Albertan lake on a wall in Ontario they just said it was there when they bought the place . . . and it looked pretty so they kept it.
As an aside, can I just compliment you on the correct use of bison? Lewis and Clark have a lot to answer for!
Easiest explanation is that this is a winter map. /sI looked at that sign hard and close. I swear I saw no sign of fading though that would have made the most sense.
Wherever you go, there you are.Check out the “you are here” arrow
I might well do that, Sometimes the small area presented to you doesn't give enough context to position yourself if you are not very familiar with the area.Another observation is that when people ARE able to read maps, they ALWAYS take your paper map, unfold it and then re-fold it for themselves. It is like an orientation procedure that is necessary as they get organized to look at the precise location! This happens even when you have carefully folded it to the convenient size and location before you present it to them!
Another observation is that when people ARE able to read maps, they ALWAYS take your paper map, unfold it and then re-fold it for themselves. It is like an orientation procedure that is necessary as they get organized to look at the precise location! This happens even when you have carefully folded it to the convenient size and location before you present it to them!
Exactly! So do I. At first, though, I didn't understand why people would unfold and re-fold my carefully folded map. It is to get that context and orientation.I might well do that, Sometimes the small area presented to you doesn't give enough context to position yourself if you are not very familiar with the area.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?