William Garza
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances, The Jakobsweg
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Agree. I've walked lots of different Caminos and they are different every time. Every village and many bar/accommodation owners become like personal friends even though you only see them once a year. It's amazing they also remember the yearly / every 2 year pilgrim too."I think maybe what it is that keeps some people coming back time and again, is the uniqueness of each moment on the camino, and the spirit of the camino, which facilitates a kind of connection"
I can't speak for earlier than the 90's, but there were people saying it was saturated even in the late 90's. The 1999 Xacobeo year was seen as a massive spike and very busy in terms of a saturation point versus the availability of refugios. It was fine though, and no big deal to be happy to sleep in church porticos, sports halls, pelota courts and well...anywhere a space was available.i wonder what it was like back decades.90s,80s,70s...hippie times and further. y
Nicely done, thank you, a wonderful quote and life reminder from the peerless Saramago.Perhaps these words will help you ponder the magic of a repeated journey.
"The end of one journey is simply the start of another. You have to see what you missed the first time, see again what you already saw, see in springtime what you saw in summer, in daylight what you saw at night, see the sun shining where you saw the rain falling, see crops growing, the fruit ripen, the stone which has moved, the shadow that was not there before. You have to go back to the footsteps already taken, to go over them again or add fresh ones alongside them.You have to start the journey anew. Always"
Jose Saramago, A Journey to Portugal
Quieter!i wonder what it was like back decades.90s,80s,70s...hippie times and further.
"better" is a very subjective idea. If you mean less physically demanding and provided with more infrastructure to support walkers then the Camino Frances of today is far better than in the 1980s and 1990s. For those who are looking for companionship while walking and the buzz of being part of a large-scale collective event then it is clearly far better today. As a cantankerous old misanthrope I am personally inclined to prefer the solitude and silences of my early Camino experience and I feel that the comparative lack of comforts and greater physical demands were a very modest price to pay for that. But with this year's Compostela figures on course to top half a million it seems I am in a minority there!We are totally spoilt nowadays and as someone who takes about 60 days to walk the Frances staying in very comfortable private accommodation throughout (other than the dorm in Orisson (fabulous as it is, of course) - my one time, one use sleeping bag place) and enjoying excellent a la carte food and wines with the occasional craft beer to boot, I think the Camino is actually better than ever.
Sure, you're absolutely right in everything you've written here.Quieter!
"better" is a very subjective idea. If you mean less physically demanding and provided with more infrastructure to support walkers then the Camino Frances of today is far better than in the 1980s and 1990s. For those who are looking for companionship while walking and the buzz of being part of a large-scale collective event then it is clearly far better today. As a cantankerous old misanthrope I am personally inclined to prefer the solitude and silences of my early Camino experience and I feel that the comparative lack of comforts and greater physical demands were a very modest price to pay for that. But with this year's Compostela figures on course to top half a million it seems I am in a minority there!
That which we love..never grows old, never withers on the vine or gets wrinkled and bent with age. But were we trees, would others look on us and wonder, whither rugged bark were ever smooth and fine and less burned from countless summer days,winters firery caress and the cruel winds plucking our leaves, carefully nurtured from our fingers...Perhaps these words will help you ponder the magic of a repeated journey.
"The end of one journey is simply the start of another. You have to see what you missed the first time, see again what you already saw, see in springtime what you saw in summer, in daylight what you saw at night, see the sun shining where you saw the rain falling, see crops growing, the fruit ripen, the stone which has moved, the shadow that was not there before. You have to go back to the footsteps already taken, to go over them again or add fresh ones alongside them.You have to start the journey anew. Always"
Jose Saramago, A Journey to Portugal
Hi William! (love your posts;Because the sun has been at my face is on my wall)My romantic optimist side says as long as there is a road..a Way...there will always be people looking for it.
What say you?
Its the experiential, the totality of being there that excites me.Hi William! (love your posts;Because the sun has been at my face is on my wall)
I think that people will always be drawn to the Camino even with it's now substantial exposure in various forms.
It's people sharing images that move,excite and motivate many to say "i want to experience that";be it the Camino, swimming with sharks(nutters) going on the biggest roller coaster or climbing Everest!
They will come
Woody
Thats not me, ill tell those who care a few things..the rest...nah. i would burn out meteorically... trying to unpack everything.It makes me wonder. I do believe that the Camino Francés will very soon see the number of pilgrims reach a plateau, as the experience moves from one where the pilgrim returns home raving (and thereby encouraging others) about the joys of the camino to one where the pilgrim returns home with a luke warm experience caused (in part) by the race for beds. Mind you, the race for beds isn't a new phenomenon but the number of runners now represents a much larger percentage of the whole. This is evidenced by the growing trend of posts on the topic, which will ultimately have an effect on the number of pilgrims but whose effect will never be known specifically but rather anecdotally as part of a declining growth trend.
Saturation? Just to the point. Forgotten to be rediscovered? Not likely.
More likely is that the other primary routes (Portugués largely, and Norte secondarily) will see more growth. And the tertiary routes (for lack of a more prestigious term) will also start to grow. We see this here on the forums with much more buzz than every surrounding the Invierno, Salvador, Olvidado, etc.
The camino is changing to the desires of the pilgrims, for bettor or for worse.
All that said, I do encourage everyone to set off with as little information and as little stuff as possible to leave space for the magic of the camino to hitch a ride with you.
I listened to track 19 of The Way ost by Tyler Bates. The track where Joost dropped to his knees in supplication.@William Garza, how do you see it from your personal point of view? Correct me if I am wrong but I think that you have not yet walked on a Camino? Are you still planning to go or do the current narratives put you off the idea?
Already several decades ago, I decided that there are a two places that I will not travel to and not visit: the Pyramids in Egypt and the Inca Trail in Peru, despite both having considerable attraction for me for various aspects. Reason: too many people having the same idea as I. I've never regretted my decision. And I am pretty certain that many many people continue to visit these places. It's the same with the Camino Francés. Or the Mount Everest already mentioned and other places that combine physical expertise with cultural, historical, natural environment and spiritual elements.
Where life is hard, raw and authentic ... then the Camino Francés may not be what you are looking for. Life as a @peregrino on the Camino Francés is neither hard nor raw, you travel through cultivated landscapes and hit a Spanish town or village about every hour or every two hours of your walking day or even more often. Authentic ... I don't know what that means. Life is authentic for me every day and everywhere I am ...Will never travel in mexico because i was held for ransom there...
all the rest is open, esp high lonesome places, where life is hard,raw and authentic
Its that!Where life is hard, raw and authentic ... then the Camino Francés may not be what you are looking for. Life as a @peregrino on the Camino Francés is neither hard nor raw, you travel through cultivated landscapes and hit a Spanish town or village about every hour or every two hours of your walking day or even more often. Authentic ... I don't know what that means. Life is authentic for me every day and everywhere I am ...
Well, as someone who drank wine here and there in Spain and in France on the way to the apostle in Compostela, let me tell you this in order to avoid future disappointment: As lovely as it tastes there, it never tastes the same at home.Or its just wine..me?
I can't buy patxaran here at home in Wales. So when there is a decent crop of sloes I make my own. As good as my first sip of the proper stuff by the swimming pool in Hontanas on a hot August day? No! But good enough to brighten up a damp grey afternoon on the Celtic fringe....No, it tastes fine at home but it never the same as it tasted there and then.
Actually, I am more a fan of Isla or Highland single malts..but, I am learning to discern the different things in there. As for wines i tend to lighter acidic wines than sweet.Well, as someone who drank wine here and there in Spain and in France on the way to the apostle in Compostela, let me tell you this in order to avoid future disappointment: As lovely as it tastes there, it never tastes the same at home.
I am sharing this with you as someone who had a marvellous glass or two of a red Rioja from the Ostatu bodegas in a small restaurant in Santo Domingo de la Calzada, associated with great memories of that day and that evening, and who orders a few bottles every year for our Christmas Day meal. And the same goes for a white Vouvray that we discovered on our way to Tours. Yes, it tastes fine at home but it never the same as it tasted there and then.
Had to look up sloes..good lord, i would try that liquid!I can't buy patxaran here at home in Wales. So when there is a decent crop of sloes I make my own. As good as my first sip of the proper stuff by the swimming pool in Hontanas on a hot August day? No! But good enough to brighten up a damp grey afternoon on the Celtic fringe....
thank you! you should have seen what i could write before some medicine took my short term memory!Personally I do not worry about these kinds of things as my caminos are very personal experiences. More importantly I am very impressed with your vocabulary. I never heard of the word ennui before or had any idea how to pronounce it. Thank goodness for google so I could look up the meaning and hear how the word is pronounced. Very doubtful if I will remember how to pronounce it.
I walked the CF in 2011. I read two books before I went. The experience was very powerful in so many ways.I heard something about a move the way was coming out at about the same time I was returning to the US.I still have not seen the movie. My thought then and now is why would I want to see a factious movie for something that I had just had a real experience from. Nothing personal about the film. In fact, it has inspired many Americans to walk. This is a lot of the reason I am reluctant to go back to the CF. I may try the Le Puy route next year. Thank you for your comment.Just because every trail/place/view/angle/sight/season, etc, may have been captured in any format (photos/videos/blogs/vlogs/written/described, etc) doesn't mean we have to partake in any of it!
Eg; 'The Way' movie came out just before I took my first tentative steps on a long distance path, namely the CF from SJPdP, but I deliberately avoided seeing the film until my return, as I didn't want to walk with preconceived ideas of what I may see or experience.
Limitless information may be out there now but we can still choose not to seek it.
Even in this day & age, there is still the opportunity to discover something for yourself...you just have to block out all the 'noise' & let it unfold...
Every photo taken captures a moment in time and space. That moment can never be duplicated. There are too many variables.Not a pointy finger by any means.
I wonder sometimes if there will be a point of saturation on the Camino.
When every picture taken at every angle and every seasons hour of...XYZ on Camino X...and Y..or Z.
Will people have vicariously lived every magic through descrition,photo and video?
My extreme cynic side..yes.
My Optimist..no
My Realist side.eh-meh-hmmm
Every subject is finite,every idea the same. There comes a time when every angle has been covered and a ennui sets its claws to the subject.
Will the Caminos be forgotten to be re discovered again? The "ruins" buried in the collective memories until they are novel again.
My romantic optimist side says as long as there is a road..a Way...there will always be people looking for it.
What say you?
I agree completely! My walk starts in September from SJPDP To Finesterre. I have purposely avoided studying photos, seeing The Way or anything else that can give away the surprise. I am reading posts so I don’t go into this blind but lots of the fun I experience is the joy of first discovery.Just because every trail/place/view/angle/sight/season, etc, may have been captured in any format (photos/videos/blogs/vlogs/written/described, etc) doesn't mean we have to partake in any of it!
Eg; 'The Way' movie came out just before I took my first tentative steps on a long distance path, namely the CF from SJPdP, but I deliberately avoided seeing the film until my return, as I didn't want to walk with preconceived ideas of what I may see or experience.
Limitless information may be out there now but we can still choose not to seek it.
Even in this day & age, there is still the opportunity to discover something for yourself...you just have to block out all the 'noise' & let it unfold...
If every angle wasn't covered in the first thousand years, I have no worries that they will all be covered in the next few hundred.Not a pointy finger by any means.
I wonder sometimes if there will be a point of saturation on the Camino.
When every picture taken at every angle and every seasons hour of...XYZ on Camino X...and Y..or Z.
Will people have vicariously lived every magic through descrition,photo and video?
My extreme cynic side..yes.
My Optimist..no
My Realist side.eh-meh-hmmm
Every subject is finite,every idea the same. There comes a time when every angle has been covered and a ennui sets its claws to the subject.
Will the Caminos be forgotten to be re discovered again? The "ruins" buried in the collective memories until they are novel again.
My romantic optimist side says as long as there is a road..a Way...there will always be people looking for it.
What say you?
There will need to be more rainy day pictures.Not a pointy finger by any means.
I wonder sometimes if there will be a point of saturation on the Camino.
When every picture taken at every angle and every seasons hour of...XYZ on Camino X...and Y..or Z.
Will people have vicariously lived every magic through descrition,photo and video?
My extreme cynic side..yes.
My Optimist..no
My Realist side.eh-meh-hmmm
Every subject is finite,every idea the same. There comes a time when every angle has been covered and a ennui sets its claws to the subject.
Will the Caminos be forgotten to be re discovered again? The "ruins" buried in the collective memories until they are novel again.
My romantic optimist side says as long as there is a road..a Way...there will always be people looking for it.
What say you?
Just as an aside; I'm currently on the Mozárabe between Granada and Córdoba and have met NO pilgrims whatsoever! It's a different experience to the Francés in that I have the whole Way to myself: not worse or better, just different. I guess the Francés (which I assume is what you are talking about) will reach some sort of critical mass and pilgrims will choose alternative routes, the 'roads less travelled'.Not a pointy finger by any means.
I wonder sometimes if there will be a point of saturation on the Camino.
When every picture taken at every angle and every seasons hour of...XYZ on Camino X...and Y..or Z.
Will people have vicariously lived every magic through descrition,photo and video?
My extreme cynic side..yes.
My Optimist..no
My Realist side.eh-meh-hmmm
Every subject is finite,every idea the same. There comes a time when every angle has been covered and a ennui sets its claws to the subject.
Will the Caminos be forgotten to be re discovered again? The "ruins" buried in the collective memories until they are novel again.
My romantic optimist side says as long as there is a road..a Way...there will always be people looking for it.
What say you?
Just because every trail/place/view/angle/sight/season, etc, may have been captured in any format (photos/videos/blogs/vlogs/written/described, etc) doesn't mean we have to partake in any of it!
Eg; 'The Way' movie came out just before I took my first tentative steps on a long distance path, namely the CF from SJPdP, but I deliberately avoided seeing the film until my return, as I didn't want to walk with preconceived ideas of what I may see or experience.
Limitless information may be out there now but we can still choose not to seek it.
Even in this day & age, there is still the opportunity to discover something for yourself...you just have to block out all the 'noise' & let it unfold...
When I went back in 2011, There were a lot of Germans on the Camino who had just read " I'm off Then" by a German author, which was coincidentally one of the two books I read. I would recommend it if you're looking for a fun read. Looking back, I'm so grateful I could get a bed without worrying. I did not bring a phone which these days would seem impossible. When I went back more recently, I noticed so many people on their phones- texting back home, texting to get a bed, and talking on their phones. In 2011,I would invite myself to a table and share our Camino experience over a cafe con Leche. Sometimes with a lot of tears. I hope this still happens for Pilgrims.@Speddy & @hikinggirl, I'm with you both! I too read a few books prior to walking (& must acknowledge that was how I 'discovered' the Camino even existed) but somehow reading without photos does not take away from the trail unveiling itself to you; the picture in your imagination stems from the authors description...not from actual an representation.
@Speddy, I also let the experience of my walks stand alone by not repeating any paths.
@hikinggirl, best wishes for your Camino in September...I love how you are relishing the unknown leaving yourself open to whatever unfolds!
Happy trails.
@Speddy & @hikinggirl, I'm with you both! I too read a few books prior to walking (& must acknowledge that was how I 'discovered' the Camino even existed) but somehow reading without photos does not take away from the trail unveiling itself to you; the picture in your imagination stems from the authors description...not from actual an representation.
@Speddy, I also let the experience of my walks stand alone by not repeating any paths.
@hikinggirl, best wishes for your Camino in September...I love how you are relishing the unknown leaving yourself open to whatever unfolds!
Happy trails.
No matter how much you read, or how many videos/pictures you see, there is absolutely nothing that can replace the experience itself.
Interesting and factual.Seeing and experiencing the Camino through your own eyes will never be the same as experiencing it thought someone else's. Someone else's experience, and the things they find photo-worthy may be similar to yours, but it can never be "the same", because even though you may be walking the same path, and taking the photo from the same spot, what brought you there and what you found when you arrived will not be the same as it is for someone else. As in any life, saturation by virtue of photographs, and even stories, isn't possible in my opinion.
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