MarieLauFlorin
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- See list below
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Hi, Mariel,Hi
I got a question today that I can`t answer. Why are there eleven lines in the traditionel scallop shell symbol? I don`t think it has anything to do with the myth of Saint Jacob. Do you know an explanation to this? Do they somehow symbolise something since there are usually nine long and two short Lines?
Marie
Maybe true. Fisterra/Muxia, Ingles, Primitivo, Frances, Ivierno, Sanabres and Portugues are seven Caminos that ended in SdC.Hola @Tincatinker & @MarieLauFlorin I thought it was to do with the number of Caminos, but the explanation that it is a stylised scallop shell also makes sense!!
I suppose "traditional" refers to the logo that was created for the Council of Europe (a non-EU institution) when they declared the Camino de Santiago as their first "Cultural Route" some 30 years ago? I had a hard time counting 11 lines in this logo at first as I could count only 9 lines until I realised that the 2 lines for the so-called ears of a scallop shell were included in the countWhy are there eleven lines in the traditionel scallop shell symbol? I don`t think it has anything to do with the myth of Saint Jacob. Do you know an explanation to this? Do they somehow symbolise something since there are usually nine long and two short Lines?
@TincatinkerTake a look at a scallop shell?
That's what I thought, too, but see description at http://www.fao.org/fishery/species/3516/en for pecten maximus: "Sculpture of 12 to 17 broad radiating ribs". FAO is the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation. So the number of ribs does vary for the Saint James' shell. And it's not 9 or 11 ...?You can tell which (sub)species it is from the number of lines.
The scallop shell is an ancient symbol that predates Christianity by thousands of years. Used also in Roman temples.That's what I thought, too, but see description at http://www.fao.org/fishery/species/3516/en for pecten maximus: "Sculpture of 12 to 17 broad radiating ribs". FAO is the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation. So the number of ribs does vary for the Saint James' shell. And it's not 9 or 11 ...?
The twelve apostles less Judas...Why are there eleven lines in the traditional scallop shell symbol?
Sorry but that's not true (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecten_jacobaeus). The St.James shell is endemic for Mediterranean and Adriatic sea not the Atlantic ocean but it can be mixed up with Pecten maximus which is more widely spread in different seas/oceans....The Saint James' shell occurs only on the Atlantic coast, from Britain to Spain. (The Living Scallop, W.J.Rees, British Museum, Natural History).
Ah, Wikipedia and their editors
Exactly, because the Galician (Atlantic) Pecten is not jacobaeus but maximus despite that mistaken naming by C.Linnaeus. I mean it is what it is now and we can't change thatAh, Wikipedia and their editors. If you dig deeper into it, you will find that "two members of the scallop genus Pecten (Bivalvia: Pectinidae) occur in European waters. Pecten maximus is largely an Atlantic species whilst Pecten jacobaeus is almost completely confined to Mediterranean waters despite slight overlap of distributions in the western Mediterranean" and that Carl Linnaeus got the naming somehow wrong when he drew up his famous nomenclature in the 18th century. Despite its name, pecten_jacobeus is not the Saint James shell that is found around the Galician coast and the EN Wikipedia editor is forgiven; I couldn't even be bothered to correct the entry. I can retrieve more details should there be any interest which I doubt. It doesn't matter one bit for today's pilgrims, any scallop-like shell or even just anything shell like will do the job just fine.
@Bradtheknife , I understand fully the confusion you encountered. I found the same inconsistency everywhere and learnt to ignore any directional meaning on the orientation of the scallop shell.
In 2016, after nearly a month in France with the red bar over white of the GR65 for company I entered Spain intending to rely on the orientation of the base of the scallop shell.
On day 2 in Spain I entered the small village of Lintozain. After two houses the path had only a hard left turn and the base of the signage pointed that direction. A few houses on I had a choice, continue ahead on gently sloping path or a hard turn right up a steepish, rutted, incline. The base of the signage was upper most. To me that meant continue ahead, so I did. Less than 100 metres on a householder was gently waving at me to go back to the steepish, rutted, incline: so I did.
Judas (Iscariot) was a disciple not an apostle and there were between14 and 70 of those (but only 14 named in the various gospels).The twelve apostles less Judas...
While I only know what I read on WikipediaJudas (Iscariot) was a disciple not an apostle and there were between14 and 70 of those (but only 14 named in the various gospels).
Tsk tsk! Never trust anything you read on Wikipedia. There's a Wikipedia page that tells you this!!While I only know what I read on Wikipedia:
The following is a list of the Twelve Apostles, named as they are most commonly referred to:
- Peter (born Simon)
- Andrew, brother of Peter
- James, son of Zebedee
- John, brother of James, son of Zebedee
- Philip
- Bartholomew
- Thomas
- Matthew
- James, son of Alphaeus
- Judas Thaddeus, also known as Jude
- Simon the Zealot, also known as Simon the Canaanite
- Judas Iscariot
- Matthias is not an original apostle and is a replacement for Judas Iscariot after the betrayal of Jesus.
- Paul is also not one of the original apostles, but is referred to and treated like one. He played a large role in composing the Bible and listing the lives of Jesus Christ and the Twelve Apostles.
Since Mary is omitted, I am with you on this one...Never trust anything you read on Wikipedia.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?