Al the optimist
Veteran Member
Live and let live?I'm sure that at times I am a Camino bore but my friends don't ask me to go and sit somewhere else.
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I think it quite an unrealistic expectation that snorers should not use communal dormitories in albergues. This is not a matter of courtesy - in my experience it comes from an elevated sense of entitlement that unfortunately some pilgrims seem to have, while at the same time overlooking their own annoying and disruptive habits. Albergues are there for all pilgrims - if you feel you need to avoid the disruption of sharing with snorers, it is up to you to pay the cost of more private accommodation.Sorry Kanga, but I beg to differ, your comparison with blind and deaf is a bit strong. Firstly, I believe there are ways to medicate snoring. Secondly, -as Robo said-, snorers joining communal dorms is a bit like smoking in a non-smoking area. Yes, ear plugs, - a must for everyone staying in albergues-, fend-off the noises of light, occasional snorers well enough but don't help much, when you're bunked next to a Jericho-wall shaking type. It seems a matter of common curtesy that pathologic snorers should seek private accommodation and to bear the relatively small cost difference for such quarantine. Or, to maybe confront the fellow peregrinos with the predicament and giving them the alternative of chipping-in a coin or two toward the cost..... .
A walk on the Camino does not always cure sanctimony. Keep praying that it will...I think it quite an unrealistic expectation that snorers should not use communal dormitories in albergues. This is not a matter of courtesy - in my experience it comes from an elevated sense of entitlement that unfortunately some pilgrims seem to have, while at the same time overlooking their own annoying and disruptive habits. Albergues are there for all pilgrims - if you feel you need to avoid the disruption of sharing with snorers, it is up to you to pay the cost of more private accommodation.
Sorry Kanga, but I beg to differ, your comparison with blind and deaf is a bit strong. Firstly, I believe there are ways to medicate snoring. Secondly, -as Robo said-, snorers joining communal dorms is a bit like smoking in a non-smoking area. .
I think it quite an unrealistic expectation that snorers should not use communal dormitories in albergues. This is not a matter of courtesy - in my experience it comes from an elevated sense of entitlement that unfortunately some pilgrims seem to have, while at the same time overlooking their own annoying and disruptive habits. Albergues are there for all pilgrims - if you feel you need to avoid the disruption of sharing with snorers, it is up to you to pay the cost of more private accommodation.
I took three pairs of socks but only wore two on alternate days. I'm glad I had the third pair, though, because as I walked I lost about 4.5 to 5 kg. It got to the point where the hip belt on my backpack could no longer be cinched tighter, so I duct-taped the spare socks to the inside of the belt to make up the difference. Necessity is the mother of invention...I don't see a need for three pairs of socks...
Sorry Kanga, but I beg to differ, your comparison with blind and deaf is a bit strong. Firstly, I believe there are ways to medicate snoring. Secondly, -as Robo said-, snorers joining communal dorms is a bit like smoking in a non-smoking area. Yes, ear plugs, - a must for everyone staying in albergues-, fend-off the noises of light, occasional snorers well enough but don't help much, when you're bunked next to a Jericho-wall shaking type. It seems a matter of common curtesy that pathologic snorers should seek private accommodation and to bear the relatively small cost difference for such quarantine. Or, to maybe confront the fellow peregrinos with the predicament and giving them the alternative of chipping-in a coin or two toward the cost..... .
Firstly, I believe there are ways to medicate snoring.
Things I'm doing differently for walk this September (compared to Camino last year):
-- Taking a Kindle and MP3 player. I really missed ability to read books and listen to music.
-- Digitizing information I may need and sending it to my Kindle and cell phone. (No 11 ounce Brierley book!)
-- Taking lightweight pajamas (3.5 ounces total) and leaving behind lightweight sweatpants.
-- Replacing running shoes and flip flops with Crocs for non-hiking needs.
-- Adding plastic bags and rubber bands for use as gaitors.
-- Eliminating many "might need" items like headlamp, that I never used.
-- Replacing 36-ounce sleeping bag with 18-ounce model.
-- Replacing 6-ounce backpacker towel with 1.5 ounce microfiber cloth. (Good enough.)
These changes are cutting 5 pounds from my pack and will increase pleasure of the walk.
I have no real regrets from my camino, but there are a few things that I'd do differently the second time around! I figured I may as well share, just in case someone finds themselves in the same position that I was in. If I could start again, I would…
1) Go inside the church in Santo Domingo. When we were there, there were two or three busloads of tourists walking in, so we decided not to bother with the crowds. When we got to Granon and the hospitalero told us the story of the chickens, I really regretted not going in!
2) Carry my pack to the Santiago cathedral. I really don't know what we were thinking! But it was pouring rain, we were exhausted, and we stopped in at an albergue in Santiago about a km from the church. We left our bags next to our beds - through sheer habit, I expect! - and went the last few steps packless. It felt a bit anticlimactic.
3) Use walking sticks from day one. Sore knees after the Napoleon pass put a real damper on the first 10 days of my trip. On more than one occasion I contemplated taking a bus or sending my pack ahead. I bought walking sticks on day four, but I think I could have saved myself a lot of grief if I'd just had them from the start. I'd also use knee braces for descents. I'm in my mid-thirties, and I was surprised at my knee pain.
4) Carry a more comprehensive first aid kit from the beginning. I don't mean bigger necessarily - just that I could have really used some gauze and tape on day two. We met a girl with large weeping blisters on each heel, and they were too big for any of the compeed or bandages that we were carrying. I stocked up on a few extra supplies in the next town, just in case.
5) Not send forward my down jacket after week one. Its weight was negligeable - 220 grams, I think - but my dad was sending forward some stuff, and I figured I wouldn't need it anymore since I was out of the mountains. It turns out that I needed it! I ended up buying another long-sleeved shirt for layering (and I already had 2 long-sleeved merino shirts AND a fleece). It was really cold some days in late March and early April!
If you could start again, is there anything that you would do differently?
I guess when you are a repeat offender, like me, you fix those things. Remembering back to my first Camino, these are the things I would and have changed:
(1) take a much lighter pack, with fewer clothes
(2) wear light shoes instead of boots
(3) take a poncho instead of a 3 layer Goretex jacket
(4) take a roll of micropore tape instead of Compeed
(5) take an umbrella
(6) take a lightweight down liner/quilt, instead of a sleeping bag
(7) take transition spectacles, instead of separate glasses and sunglasses
I also take a smartphone instead of books, maps, camera, and torch. But that's not really fair; when I first walked 14 years ago smartphones did not exist!
And I now walk to meet people, to see things of interest and beauty, to feel good, to meditate, and to enjoy the strength my body gains, instead of fixating on how many kilometres I do each day.
Good idea; I usually walk from 0600 to 1400, shower, eat a ridiculously huge pilgrims menu for lunch around 1430, then fruit for dinner around 1900.I would pay more attention to siesta times, and plan accordingly. Too often, when we were looking for dinner - 5:00 to 6:00 - the restaurants were closed. And having a big meal later in the evening didn't work very well with an early bed time.
Lol, those texting gods times are indeed very special! ;-) Many of us also use our cell phones for keeping journals, posting on our blogs, improving our Spanish , etc. Right now, in Rivadosa, it's coming in very handy to post here!Back in Santiago, two weeks ago, we had a lot of similar discussions sitting around drinking wine. Almost everyone said that if they were ever going to walk it again they would take at least 60 days. Just about everyone regretted not spending more time in certain cities or towns.
Almost all said they foolishly worried about the weight of their packs when in reality, they all became stronger as they walked and would pack many more comfortable things next time, no matter what those things weighted.
Lot of votes on more First Aide stuff also.
Women also liked the big ponchos that girls from Oz used as Mobile Banos in the fields along the Meseta.
Mixed feelings on cell phones--some would not bring one again while those who did not bring one said they might bring one next time. I did not take one so missed out on those special times each evening when groups of Pilgrims gathered together outside albergues , sitting in total silence , texting their Gods.
I'd make a few changes.
1. Bring more, but thinner top layers to have more options for warmth without adding bulk. My fleece was bulky and inconvenient, but a thinner fleece combined with a light windbreaker would have been much more useful.
2. Bring zip-off hiking pants rather than separate pants and shorts
3. Bring hiking sandals as well as hiking shoes
4. Bring a lightweight dress for relaxing in the evenings
5. Leave the headlamp at home - never used it.
6. Bring more blister supplies (prevention and treatment), but leave most of the other first aid stuff at home.
7. Bring a lighter poncho - mine is great for regular camping and boating, but I never realized how heavy it was until I had to carry it around.
Some nights it was in the 30's (Fahrenheit) and some days I don't think it got out of the 40s. I was expecting more USA East Coast weather where it would be in the 40s at night and 60s during the day. I was told that it was unusually cold so it may not be like that usually. The weather was freakish because we had beautiful weather on the first few days but people just a couple days behind us had hail and storms and I was told that they closed the pass one day because it was dangerous.Hi lrazzo. You say May June was quite cold. How cold? We are planning those dates for 2015.
To the snorer-phobics, I empathise AND have a solution that does not alienate our snoring brothers and sisters!
If you are taking an electronic device, consider matching it with a pair of noise reduction headphones if you can budget for them. I have a Bose set which, when switched on, retains its noise reducing properties when not plugged into a device. I quickly got used to the sensation of them on my head and sleep like an infant!
I was musing about several of these exact things, rsmith0000, re: Crocs, kindle/mp3/PJs, so I have to thank you for reading my mind!
If I may ask, what other "might need" items are on your black list?
Hello, Hal. In answer to your question on other "might need" items I'll leave behind this Camino: down vest (wore only once); moleskin (causes blisters); clothes line (safety pins work best); knit cap (too hot); folding knife and spork (replace with tiny set of plasticware you get on airplane flight over). In short: less is more. Best, Rebecca
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007W9MGLI/?tag=casaivar02-20Thanks, Rebecca! Is moleskin a medical tape?
1) I ended up not bringing a fleece because if the bulk and have been fine with layers; a merino hiking shirt, synthetic REI jersey, topped off with a windbreaker and big shawl-type scarf that I use in all sorts of ways (skirt, shawl, sarong, privacy shield, towel, head covering...)
I was grateful every night for my giant noise-reducing Bose headphones although mine were connected to an iPod playing white noise.To the snorer-phobics, I empathise AND have a solution that does not alienate our snoring brothers and sisters!
If you are taking an electronic device, consider matching it with a pair of noise reduction headphones if you can budget for them. I have a Bose set which, when switched on, retains its noise reducing properties when not plugged into a device. I quickly got used to the sensation of them on my head and sleep like an infant!
"Let him without sin throw the first stone"Robo, it makes me very cross. People who snore can't help it, they have no control over it, and it is quite inhuman and uncharitable for them to be humiliated and despised. We rightly have stopped making fun of those who are blind or deaf or otherwise incapacitated, we spend public money on their needs and we don't mind if they cause us inconvenience.
I am the first to be amused by the sounds in albergue dorms but when travelling on Camino with my husband we also have been forced into private accommodation. My husband's snoring can bring down the walls of Jericho. I live with it at home by wearing earplugs. I don't understand why others can't.
I'm enjoying this thread...
I wish I was more loyal to my "gut feelings" ( I usually am pretty loyal to them) . I researched well and packed with no regrets BUT I listened to someone in St Jean who convinced me to throw out a fitted sheet and a nail file. I wished for that fitted sheet every night and searched hi and low for a nail file.
What I DID do differently the second time around and will continue to do.
I used Sheep skin strap covers for my backpack straps and my shoulders felt a millions times better on my Norte than they did on my Frances.
I used a Z-Pack front pack that was worth it's weight in gold to me, it held my books, passport, and money.
I packed a Macabi skirt and from now on will take ONLY that for my lower hiking attire ...and will take ONLY one.
I left the stinky blue microfiber "athletic" towel (that everyone had) and used a big cotton scarf to towel off. This dried quick, washed easily and served as a pretty accessory when I need a little pick me up of color.
I packed a fitted sheet and pillowcase- would never do the Camino without them. I do regret not modifying the pillow case for oversized pillows.
I wore ultra light marathon shoes HOKA ONYE ONYE Stinsons...wore wonderful Brooks the first time but my Hokas left me with way less foot pain.
I didn't pack thonged sandals...they gave me blisters the first time.
I don't see a need for three pairs of socks etc... BUT do for underwear because for some reason a pair does seem to come up missing each Camino.
I would advise women with clock work monthly cycles to be prepared for their cycles to throw you a curve ball- have needed items.
Saved my pennies for Merino Wool products that didn't need to be washed as much as other items, and didn't retain smell.
Utilized grocery stores more so I always had a little munchy with me...
Didn't take a camel back water resevoir as mine broke on Camino #1
Next time
I think I just might leave my sleeping bag behind and do the sleeping liner
My biggest social regret
A youngster invited me to sleep out with him under the stars one night, he was half my age...totally pilgrim appropriate...and I wish I had had that experience of camping on the way with a young gentleman who clearly knew how to camp...
I have no real regrets from my camino, but there are a few things that I'd do differently the second time around! I figured I may as well share, just in case someone finds themselves in the same position that I was in. If I could start again, I would…
1) Go inside the church in Santo Domingo. When we were there, there were two or three busloads of tourists walking in, so we decided not to bother with the crowds. When we got to Granon and the hospitalero told us the story of the chickens, I really regretted not going in!
2) Carry my pack to the Santiago cathedral. I really don't know what we were thinking! But it was pouring rain, we were exhausted, and we stopped in at an albergue in Santiago about a km from the church. We left our bags next to our beds - through sheer habit, I expect! - and went the last few steps packless. It felt a bit anticlimactic.
3) Use walking sticks from day one. Sore knees after the Napoleon pass put a real damper on the first 10 days of my trip. On more than one occasion I contemplated taking a bus or sending my pack ahead. I bought walking sticks on day four, but I think I could have saved myself a lot of grief if I'd just had them from the start. I'd also use knee braces for descents. I'm in my mid-thirties, and I was surprised at my knee pain.
4) Carry a more comprehensive first aid kit from the beginning. I don't mean bigger necessarily - just that I could have really used some gauze and tape on day two. We met a girl with large weeping blisters on each heel, and they were too big for any of the compeed or bandages that we were carrying. I stocked up on a few extra supplies in the next town, just in case.
5) Not send forward my down jacket after week one. Its weight was negligeable - 220 grams, I think - but my dad was sending forward some stuff, and I figured I wouldn't need it anymore since I was out of the mountains. It turns out that I needed it! I ended up buying another long-sleeved shirt for layering (and I already had 2 long-sleeved merino shirts AND a fleece). It was really cold some days in late March and early April!
If you could start again, is there anything that you would do differently?
3) I won't stick so closely to the Brierley and Michelin book "stages", stopping at some of the towns NOT at the end of each page. I did that for the last two weeks, and enjoyed being in places that weren't packed with people who WERE walking "by the book".
.
1) I will NOT take my bigger camera OR my sleeping bag. I sent both home from Pamploma, bought a light sleepingbag liner until the one my daughter sent arrived in Burgos. Used her liner the rest of the trip. I've now purchased a bit of a thermal liner, with some warmth and a bit of cushioning, but it's only about 5 oz.
I can't throw the first stone. I left it at the Cruz!"Let him without sin throw the first stone"
Dental floss is great for that kind of repair and a lot more and it's lite.I also learned that shops may not be always be open (!!)
You sure got that right. After forgetting my soap in an albergue, I went 4 days before I found a store with a bar of soap. After my underwear was stolen from albergue clothes line , I found several hiking stores with synthetic shorts for 37 Euros each but it took days before I found a cheap place to buy mens underwear. Stayed in many towns with no stores (or bars!) and also passed many stores closed for Siesta or for Sunday. Camino does not generally follow streets with actual stores with decent prices. In 43 days I was able to locate two Chinese stores that were open. Never did find a store that was open that sold 10 pound test fishing line so I could sew up two major rips in my backpack. And don't believe that every little town has a Pharmacia--lot of kilometers between those places.
LOL. Too funny.And thanks from me too for the duolingo.com reference, I'm really enjoying it. (Though I think I'm only up to a child's storybook level so far - I'm hoping 'The green duck eats white rice" will come in handy somewhere along the way.....)
Dental floss is great for that kind of repair and a lot more and it's lite.
Happy Trails
Hey, snoring does not smell. Flatulance on the other hand........; )It seems that being a snorer on the Camino is about as socially acceptable as being a smoker 'back in the World'. I gave up the latter 20 years ago but sadly the former is yet to succumb to the sleep centres, doctors and hypnotherapists. .... One of the reasons we'll be 'going private'. The water pistol does sound like a good idea though
I carry 2 braided para cord bracelets / zipper pulls. : )Two meters of 550lb. nylon paracord, good for spare shoe or boot laces, and the inner strands are useful for sewing repairs as well.
If you want good food go on a gastronomy tour. If you don't want to be disturbed by other people, go on a retreat.
Bunkum. Firstly, in my husband's case he has been tested and he does not have sleep apnea. He snores not every night, but about every third night (and not all night). It is unpredictable. He has had surgery - full anaesthetic, the whole lot, with attendant risks, not for his sake but because he is concerned about the effect on others. It made no difference. The only way to "medicate" him would be to stop him breathing.
Secondly, smoking is a voluntary activity. Snoring is not.
An old hospitalero told me that everyone snores sometimes, that in a dormitory there will always be snorers, and that people should not complain because it is is a normal aspect of communal sleeping. He said it had always been thus, that if people could not tolerate snoring then they should go elsewhere. It is certainly the case that I cannot remember a single night spent in an albergue, when there has not been at least one person (excluding my husband) snoring sometime during the night. It is cruel and intolerant to single them out and to criticise them. They are us.
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