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Thank you @natefaithWelcome back to Spain @domigee ! Hope your vivienda was just fine after your absence. That's sad about the businesses being closed for good....it's been a rough year. Take care.
My experience today. Not about the Camino (sadly)
but just a feed-back on flying from the UK to Spain.
Gatwick airport eerily empty - well, compared to usual. Fine.
Flying EasyJet who stipulated everyone had to wear a mask on board. Ok. Felt safe enough.
Passengers had masks on but...most, the wrong way? Only covering mouth. And I hate to say but crew were as bad, taking off masks as well for most of the journey... I was on row 1 so could see it all unfolding. It was as if the dreaded virus were NOT on this planeIn the US airlines are banning passengers who refuse to wear masks from future flights.
Airlines follow through on threat to ban passengers who don't wear masks
Airlines are making good on their threat to ban passengers from future flights for refusing to wear masks.www.cnn.com
And from me to New Zealand, , kia Kaha xx (i lived in Wellington many moons ago ❤)Sorry to hear you had such an unnerving experience @domigee . I would have been feeling very unsettled in that situation too. It's very brave of you to post such an honest account so other people know what they might be 'in for' taking a flight at this time.
Take care and Kia Kaha (stay strong) from New Zealand.
It probably took TUI five days to get themselves into gear. This story is nothing new and unexpected. Yesterday I was reading on article of some sort of internet celebrity who was glorifying in the fact that he had managed to remain mask free on a flight by eating a tube of pringles....very slowly.This is depressing. This is only a couple of day's after report's that on a Tui flight from Zante back to UK people were not wearing masks and cabin crew allegedly doing nothing. 16 people later tested positive and the rest of the passengers and crew quarantined - trouble is it took UK authorities 5 days to get themselves in gear. Someone needs to get a grip and enforce the rules.
Don.
Anyone else can share experience?
I think your sensible invitation is valid for any travel, not just for air flights or for Spain.So here you have it, take your chanceI am not sure it is worth the risk
God help us with the flight back
With regard to a swab test on the return to the UK....at airports there is no swab on your return...Hi, I don't know if you specifically asked for flights between UK and Spain ... so I have the experience of a couple of flights here in my country (Italy) in August. One with the national company and one with a Spanish company (what a coincidence?)
Both airports (departure and arrival) are "armored": you can enter only if you can prove that you have the ticket booked and when you land, you only have one thing to do and that is to leave the airport structure (bar-shop - newsagent ... all closed ).
Body temperature measurement through a special scanner, complete with an operator at the gate who immediately checks the data on a tablet.
You enter the aircraft in stages, following the assigned seat number (first from 1 to 15, then from 16 to 30 and so on). When it's time to get off you have to wait until the line before you is completely emptied. On board, the rule of wearing the mask was discreetly observed, even by the on-board operators.
But honestly I just looked around me.
Strong ventilation in place for most of the flight.
During the booking phase, they pointed out to me that the seat assignment procedure is regulated differently than usual: traveling alone, it makes no difference to book my seat immediately and I leave it to the causality. But then the system immediately assigned me a place where there is an additional empty space. Basically on the row of three seats, I was towards the corridor, in the middle it was empty, while the other lone passenger was towards the window. I can't say it's a procedure for every airline and I don't think it's always feasible.
All in all it was quite reassuring.
I think your sensible invitation is valid for any travel, not just for air flights or for Spain.
But to live I have to work.
No one has ever given me another valid and reassuring option
Is there a swab check on your return to the UK?
Certainly need better control and better reaction times to a situation if the aim is to stop the spread,This is depressing. This is only a couple of day's after report's that on a Tui flight from Zante back to UK people were not wearing masks and cabin crew allegedly doing nothing. 16 people later tested positive and the rest of the passengers and crew quarantined - trouble is it took UK authorities 5 days to get themselves in gear. Someone needs to get a grip and enforce the rules.
Don.
My experience today. Not about the Camino (sadly)
but just a feed-back on flying from the UK to Spain.
Gatwick airport eerily empty - well, compared to usual. Fine.
Flying EasyJet who stipulated everyone had to wear a mask on board. Ok. Felt safe enough.
Trouble is, probably half or near half the passengers were wearing it under the nose to start with
Then even worse, took them off completely whilst drinking copious amounts of wine and being bery loudPlus ça change....
Having been very careful during this pandemic, I felt like I was playing Russian roulette during that flight! Not my idea of fun !
It’s lovely to be back here in Spain - and checking on my second home after nearly seven months’ absence! - but I hope we don’t live (or die) to regret it!
Once in Alicante airport, temperature checks, health forms duly filled in were scanned, everyone wearing masks ... We took taxi rather than the usual bus, I had enough excitement for one day.
Town very empty, lots (LOTS) of shops/small businesses closed for good and I only saw what was close to my street
Once home, had email from the Spanish government, wishing us ‘buenvenida’ and telling us what to do and which number to phone should we develop Covid symptoms....
So here you have it, take your chanceI am not sure it is worth the risk God help us with the flight back
Just to really address your question...personally no!My experience today. Not about the Camino (sadly)
but just a feed-back on flying from the UK to Spain.
Gatwick airport eerily empty - well, compared to usual. Fine.
Flying EasyJet who stipulated everyone had to wear a mask on board. Ok. Felt safe enough.
Trouble is, probably half or near half the passengers were wearing it under the nose to start with
Then even worse, took them off completely whilst drinking copious amounts of wine and being bery loudPlus ça change....
Having been very careful during this pandemic, I felt like I was playing Russian roulette during that flight! Not my idea of fun !
It’s lovely to be back here in Spain - and checking on my second home after nearly seven months’ absence! - but I hope we don’t live (or die) to regret it!
Once in Alicante airport, temperature checks, health forms duly filled in were scanned, everyone wearing masks ... We took taxi rather than the usual bus, I had enough excitement for one day.
Town very empty, lots (LOTS) of shops/small businesses closed for good and I only saw what was close to my street
Once home, had email from the Spanish government, wishing us ‘buenvenida’ and telling us what to do and which number to phone should we develop Covid symptoms....
So here you have it, take your chanceI am not sure it is worth the risk God help us with the flight back
So cool! Thank you @domigee. Wellington is such a lovely city, especially since the waterfront became such a welcoming space for people to enjoy together. I hope you had the best time there and maybe 'when the world comes back' you might get to enjoy it all over again?And from me to New Zealand, , kia Kaha xx (i lived in Wellington many moons ago ❤)
Hi, I don't know if you specifically asked for flights between UK and Spain ... so I have the experience of a couple of flights here in my country (Italy) in August. One with the national company and one with a Spanish company (what a coincidence?)
Both airports (departure and arrival) are "armored": you can enter only if you can prove that you have the ticket booked and when you land, you only have one thing to do and that is to leave the airport structure (bar-shop - newsagent ... all closed ).
Body temperature measurement through a special scanner, complete with an operator at the gate who immediately checks the data on a tablet.
You enter the aircraft in stages, following the assigned seat number (first from 1 to 15, then from 16 to 30 and so on). When it's time to get off you have to wait until the line before you is completely emptied. On board, the rule of wearing the mask was discreetly observed, even by the on-board operators.
But honestly I just looked around me.
Strong ventilation in place for most of the flight.
During the booking phase, they pointed out to me that the seat assignment procedure is regulated differently than usual: traveling alone, it makes no difference to book my seat immediately and I leave it to the causality. But then the system immediately assigned me a place where there is an additional empty space. Basically on the row of three seats, I was towards the corridor, in the middle it was empty, while the other lone passenger was towards the window. I can't say it's a procedure for every airline and I don't think it's always feasible.
All in all it was quite reassuring.
I think your sensible invitation is valid for any travel, not just for air flights or for Spain.
But to live I have to work.
No one has ever given me another valid and reassuring option
Is there a swab check on your return to the UK?
[/
Obviously we had totally different experiences. I am glad it isn’t the same for everybody. I just wanted to know.
There were no temperature checks in Gatwick. There were when arriving in Alicante.
As for our return back, I have no idea. I am just dreading it but hey!f
I’d love to go back there with my husband as he doesn’t know itSo cool! Thank you @domigee. Wellington is such a lovely city, especially since the waterfront became such a welcoming space for people to enjoy together. I hope you had the best time there and maybe 'when the world comes back' you might get to enjoy it all over again?
Yes, windy Welly. I live in the Southern Lakes in Wanaka now but I grew up with Wellington as my 'big town', especially compared to the lovely little town I was born in called Taihape. WhenI’d love to go back there with my husband as he doesn’t know itWonderful country.
It was a lovely time there because of the people but... it was a bit too windy for meAnd the earthquakes But in spite of everything, my memories are won-der-ful
Gumboots on the camino, @cathietherese ?Taihape
Haha! @VNwalking that's the one. I needed gumboots last year walking out of Le Puy for a moment there, until it became really hot. In fact Tim and I joked about whether we had landed out the back of Taihape when we landed at Le Puy. It must be the volcanic plateau connection.Gumboots on the camino, @cathietherese ?
(Myself, I get homesick for Taupo and the CNI...)
@domigee , it sounds 'interesting.' And not in a good way. May you be safe there, and when the time comes to go back to the UK.
Kia kaha to us all.
Keep safe and enjoy.My experience today. Not about the Camino (sadly)
but just a feed-back on flying from the UK to Spain.
Gatwick airport eerily empty - well, compared to usual. Fine.
Flying EasyJet who stipulated everyone had to wear a mask on board. Ok. Felt safe enough.
Trouble is, probably half or near half the passengers were wearing it under the nose to start with
Then even worse, took them off completely whilst drinking copious amounts of wine and being bery loudPlus ça change....
Having been very careful during this pandemic, I felt like I was playing Russian roulette during that flight! Not my idea of fun !
It’s lovely to be back here in Spain - and checking on my second home after nearly seven months’ absence! - but I hope we don’t live (or die) to regret it!
Once in Alicante airport, temperature checks, health forms duly filled in were scanned, everyone wearing masks ... We took taxi rather than the usual bus, I had enough excitement for one day.
Town very empty, lots (LOTS) of shops/small businesses closed for good and I only saw what was close to my street
Once home, had email from the Spanish government, wishing us ‘buenvenida’ and telling us what to do and which number to phone should we develop Covid symptoms....
So here you have it, take your chanceI am not sure it is worth the risk God help us with the flight back
Unfortunately this situation existed back in February prior to the first wave. I, along with many others, were calling for this to be changed and that there should be testing at airports. The attitude of the airports was very benign at the time and treated with an attitude of "we are following Government guidelines". Other countries were adopting a different policy of testing at the point of entry.How I got into Iceland for a ten-day road trip in mid-August:-
How I got back into the UK after that:-
- Filled out an online pre-registration form
- Downloaded a fully functioning tracking app
- Got tested at the border on arrival
- Identified my overnight location in case of need for quarantine
- Received results overnight
- Chose a location for a follow-up test five days later
- Received follow-up results overnight
Nobody checked my details, no confirmation of the accuracy of the information I’d recorded on the form, not even a temperature check.
- Filled out an online Locator form before departure from Iceland
- Walked out of Heathrow unchallenged and unchecked
The difference between the two approaches may help to explain why Iceland has achieved better Covid-19
outcomes than the UK.
Has anyone else noticed that when there has been an infringement or absence of good practice on a flight that the airlines response has always included the words "the safety of our passengers is always our major concern" or something along those lines?
Hi Dom,i may be wrong (can’t remember where I read it) but wearing a mask in not a ‘law’ in the UK. Therefore all those people weren’t actually breaking the law? please feel free to disagree, I am not sure of anything anymore
Here where I am in Spain, everyone is wearing a mask (outside as well as in shops) and yet the figures for Covid are appalling. Go figure
I would guess that private social events and late night bars/clubs would be to blame.Here where I am in Spain, everyone is wearing a mask (outside as well as in shops) and yet the figures for Covid are appalling. Go figure
It is soooooo complicated. At the moment the figures are indicating that the UK incidence remains low at the moment. I dont expect this to remain the case....not as long as holidaymakers are not rushing back to escape covid ....but to escape quarantine.I would guess that private social events and late night bars/clubs would be to blame.
You may be right. My kids aren’t here with us so I wouldn’t know about that.... I must add that they have been very good and not gone out at all for months (both in England and Canada, oh and I have one locked down in Colombia too).I would guess that private social events and late night bars/clubs would be to blame.
i must say I am very confused. It seems when you’re drinking on airplanes you don’t need to wear a mask... obviously.Hi Dom,
The wearing of masks is mandatory (the only exception being medical) in all shops and public places (including airports).
Many are wearing them when out but this has not been made mandatory yet.
The distancing, ignored by the few, is, of course practiced.
Had my daughter down last weekend having not met up with her for six months. Went up to collect her from London on Thursday and took her back on the Tuesday so 360 miles of to and fro on the M25 motorway all for a picnic in the car on top of the White Cliffs of Dover.I'll stay right here at home thanks.......
Been quite happy for 6 months so far with only 4 trips out to doctor,pharmacy, post office.
Overly cautious? Who me?
Oh, we went for drive on Sunday and took a picnic to eat in the car.
What fun. Every man / woman and their dog was on the road in Sydney and we sat in traffic for 3 hours.
Going out.............nah.............tried that
We'll get our fresh air in the back garden for now.......
I agree with you completely @Camino Chrissy. The Gatwick/Alicante flight in question is less than 2 hours longI think anyone flying right now should be required to wear a mask properly and not remove it while on the aircraft. Isn't the recycled air a problem? The flight attendants should make sure it is enforced, just as they check to see seat belt rules are observed by all. In addition, my opinion is that no beverages or food should be served, nor food or beverages brought on board. Flights within the EU are not really all that long anyway, surely people should be able to go for several hours without eating and drinking. I know my opinion will be somewhat controversial to many, but so be it. If and when I will be able to fly from the US, I will count it a small price to pay if it ensures a safe, hopefully covid free flight.
I don't have all the answers, but what @domigee experienced and witnessed was appalling.
Hopefully a vaccine will be found sooner rather than later and this will become a moot point.
Some more entertaining info about flying in Europe in Corona times: food and drinks, or none of it, in Lufthansa Economy class.Flights within the EU are not really all that long anyway, surely people should be able to go for several hours without eating and drinking.
I'm allergic to covid...My advice: While in Europe, don't fly on budget airlines to and from the usual summer holidays and party destinations. And wear a proper HEPA face mask if you are super allergic to peanuts, and more importantly, keep your hands clean and be aware of what you touch while on your seat or moving around.
@Bristle boy, is that relevant to this discussion? Aren't charter flights for package tours? Not something that Camino pilgrims usually use for getting to and from Spain, as far as I can tell.the charters are just as bad.
I think it is very relevant to whether I have confidence in travelling to Spain from England.Is that relevant to this discussion? Aren't charter flights for package tours? Not something that Camino pilgrims usually use for getting to and from Spain, as far as I can tell.
More on this: Major European airlines have information on their website about specific Coronavirus measures taken by them. I usually fly Iberia/Iberia Express to Spain or within Spain but I have not done so since March. They say on their website: On short and medium-haul flights we've suspended the catering service and distribution of magazines to avoid contact. If I remember correctly, you have to purchase food and drinks on these Iberia flights, unlike Lufthansa for example, where it's still included in the ticket price. Remember that selling food and drinks is a major source of income for budget airlines.Flights within the EU are not really all that long anyway, surely people should be able to go for several hours without eating and drinking.
I love being entertained by humor, @Kathar1na, as some on this forum are aware...I enjoyed reading your response!Some more entertaining info about flying in Europe in Corona times: food and drinks, or none of it, in Lufthansa Economy class.
According to flight time:
What do you learn from this? If you are thirsty or hungry, don't fly far.
- less than 50 minutes there is no beverage service
- longer than 50 minutes we will provide you with a bottle of water
- longer than 65 minutes we offer additional coffee & tea on cross-border flights
- longer than 120 minutes we offer you our usual beverage service
- longer than 150 minutes we will serve you an additional snack
- longer than 180 minutes we will serve you an additional vegetarian sandwich
It's a good thing the Spitfire flew overhead because I had to google the word and for a brief moment I thought you were referring to a "fiery outburst" by your daughter as one definition refered to girls.We were sitting there and suddenly a Spitfire flew over. So, definitely worth it. I mean, a SPITFIRE!
if you mean the same HEPA filter masks that I mean, you know they are a bit impractical and bulky. And of course the price is much higher (for those that are really certified).And wear a proper HEPA face mask
I put a "like" under your comment but I would have preferred an icon that symbolises a knowing and sympathetic smile ☺.if you mean the same HEPA filter masks that I mean, you know they are a bit impractical and bulky. And of course the price is much higher (for those that are really certified).
I have flown often and estimate on approx. a third of my flights I have ended up with a horrible sore throat and sinus issues, but at home it's a very rare occurence. I can only conclude that the air circulated in the aircraft caused this. On Camino I more often than not walk for at least the first two weeks feeling rather miserable. I think I could possibly be affected by covid particles in the confined space of an aircraft and am not yet willing to risk it yet, even in my own country.60% of the air blown into the aircraft comes from outside
but you know that as a response to another thread (breathing problems) I also wanted to propose this type of mask.The perfect non HEPA mask for both aircraft and indoor pub use.
I am not a frequent flyer anymore but already before the arrival of the Covid-19 virus and when travelling in the summer time, I made sure that I had enough additional clothing with me on my plane seat to keep me warm. And, alas, it's quite draughty when you have this round knob above your seat on full blast. First thing I did was to turn it off. No longer a good option now, I guess?And wisely speaking, I say "well it's an anti-covid measure, but in this way you make me have a flu!" Despite wearing a jacket, I got off the plane which felt like I was an ice lolly
Indeed.Don't you just love this about the camino's intersecting pathways?
you are absolutely right that it is good to publish information with reliable data. In fact, I appreciate those who do it, dedicating time to it, like you @ kathar1na.My earlier comment referred to people who are super allergic to peanut "dust" and to some rather dramatic reports in some news media about individual cases. I had googled for some information about this before I wrote my reply. These news articles date from before 2020.
Occasionally, I feel that we must not let misleading information go unchallenged and should not resign ourselves to accept non-stop generalised warnings about travelling to Spain and travelling in Spain that are not based on facts.
well, I see that you are much more careful and thoughtful than me in securing some extra headgear if you travel by plane.I am not a frequent flyer anymore but already before the arrival of the Covid-19 virus and when travelling in the summer time, I made sure that I had enough additional clothing with me on my plane seat to keep me warm. And, alas, it's quite draughty when you have this round knob above your seat on full blast. First thing I did was to turn it off.
my experience says that those knobs are still optional and therefore can remain closed, if they bother.No longer a good option now, I guess?
Actually, from what I gather it's a good idea to have them going full blast because the air that comes out is coming directly from outside, having been warmed and filtered. I can't remember where I read this, but I will have a look and post if I find it.And, alas, it's quite draughty when you have this round knob above your seat on full blast. First thing I did was to turn it off. No longer a good option now, I guess?
Another great link...food for thought before making a decision to fly.How Clean Is the Air on Planes?
What to know about the air we breathe at 30,000 feet.www.cntraveler.com
Exactly...it recognises that something needs to be filtered in the first placeI remember reading somewhere that flying was healthier when people were allowed to smoke because the air was filtered and recycled more often. Mind you the safest place to sit in a jetliner is at the back (if it crashes) and that's where they sat smokers!
I used to have a cold/sinus trouble after every flight - until a pharmacist friend of mine recommended a spray: Vicks first defense or in the UK the Boots equivalent. It worksI have flown often and estimate on approx. a third of my flights I have ended up with a horrible sore throat and sinus issues, but at home it's a very rare occurence.
Hard to believe this is the case with the knowledge we have todayI remember reading somewhere that flying was healthier when people were allowed to smoke because the air was filtered and recycled more often. Mind you the safest place to sit in a jetliner is at the back (if it crashes) and that's where they sat smokers!
A great tip since you found it works, Domigee. Hopefully I'll be able to try it "post covid" one day.I used to have a cold/sinus trouble after every flight - until a pharmacist friend of mine recommended a spray: Vicks first defense or in the UK the Boots equivalent. It works
Unfortunately not against Covid though (I don’t think...)
I ordered some from Amazon a couple of years ago. I brought it with me to the Camino where I didn't need it, but I spent a few days in London after, and started getting a cold. It stopped it in its tracks, so I went to Boots and bought a few bottles to take home.I used to have a cold/sinus trouble after every flight - until a pharmacist friend of mine recommended a spray: Vicks first defense or in the UK the Boots equivalent. It works
Unfortunately not against Covid though (I don’t think...)
There is no doubt (in my mind anyway and from my experience) ) that we get more viruses if in an ‘alien’ environment. Our bodies are defenseless to start with.After one of my pilgrimages, I think it was the second, I got quite ill with a respiratory virus shortly after I got home, I had what amounted to a really bad cold for a couple of months. I concluded that it was caused by my being infected, either shortly before I left Spain or on the plane, with a virus which I had not met before. When younger, I got frequient colds, but eventually I just never got a cold any more, and concluded that I had already developed a resistance to everything going around. But in a new environment other viruses are lurking.
That was so lovely to hear. Glad all went well.Well, flew back to England today. I wasn’t looking forward to it, to tell truth, after my last experience....
How wrong could I be! And that is why I am sharing this with you: everything absolutely spot on this time, all wearing masks (properly) and none of this constantly moving around, drinking etc. The plane was probably about half empty, which helped of course. The staff were very strict from the beginning, constantly reminding us masks had to be worn at all times, covering both nose and mouthetc. And they also themselves wore masks throughout the journey.
Had it been like this two weeks ago, my original message would have been quite different!
I found the conditions in Spain quite eerie - so few people around. So many shops/restaurants closed - for good.
Masks have to be worn at all times, inside and outside, except when swimming in the sea(I was in a town, not the Camino). It was pretty hot (in the 30s) so it made walking any length of time quite unpleasant.
And now, the quarentine starts!Not that it’ll make much difference to what life has been like these last months
So apologies to all if my outward hellish flight was just a one-off!
It's so good to hear of such a positive experience from your first hand report in going back home, Domigee!Well, flew back to England today. I wasn’t looking forward to it, to tell truth, after my last experience....
How wrong could I be! And that is why I am sharing this with you: everything absolutely spot on this time, all wearing masks (properly) and none of this constantly moving around, drinking etc. The plane was probably about half empty, which helped of course. The staff were very strict from the beginning, constantly reminding us masks had to be worn at all times, covering both nose and mouthetc. And they also themselves wore masks throughout the journey.
Had it been like this two weeks ago, my original message would have been quite different!
I found the conditions in Spain quite eerie - so few people around. So many shops/restaurants closed - for good.
Masks have to be worn at all times, inside and outside, except when swimming in the sea(I was in a town, not the Camino). It was pretty hot (in the 30s) so it made walking any length of time quite unpleasant.
And now, the quarentine starts!Not that it’ll make much difference to what life has been like these last months
So apologies to all if my outward hellish flight was just a one-off!
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