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You are not alone. Male trolls seem to have the upper hand, but don't give up. You can put the bad guys on your "Ignore" list and not have to read them in the list of responses to a thread. Give that a try before leaving!However, the many of the discussions on this forum that have resulted from her disappearance have become hostile and I find them very difficult to read.
You can put the bad guys on your "Ignore" list and not have to read them in the list of responses to a thread
Somehow I have to learn to wean myself from this forum. I still am interested in keeping Denise and her family in my thoughts and checking in on the latest news. However, the many of the discussions on this forum that have resulted from her disappearance have become hostile and I find them very difficult to read. I am still hopefully able to walk another camino in the next few years so I want to keep up with camino news but I have to learn to step back from reading and responding to some of the threads and their posts.
Somehow I have to learn to wean myself from this forum. ..........However, the many of the discussions on this forum that have resulted from her disappearance have become hostile and I find them very difficult to read.
Somehow I have to learn to wean myself from this forum. I still am interested in keeping Denise and her family in my thoughts and checking in on the latest news. However, the many of the discussions on this forum that have resulted from her disappearance have become hostile and I find them very difficult to read. I am still hopefully able to walk another camino in the next few years so I want to keep up with camino news but I have to learn to step back from reading and responding to some of the threads and their posts.
Anniesantiago,Gailsie, I hope you will reconsider and stay.
I realize the conversation about safety on the Camino got heated and I may be one of the people whose posts upset you.
If so, I apologize.
I quickly saw my post felt out of line to some people and I removed it right away for that reason - so my strong emotional input would not upset anyone else. It was not meant to be an attack. I was weary of hearing about the dangers of the Camino, and I guess had reached my saturation point. But I could have said it with more tact.
I found it unfortunate that people continued to refer to my post, even after it had been removed.
I still remain passionate about the Camino being safe for women, much safer than anyplace else I can think of.
I believe that with all my heart.
That has not changed.
And I realize when I'm passionate, I speak with my hands waving in the air.
Sometimes, though, the words on the written page can feel stronger than what I'm actually trying to say.
And I do need to be more careful.
In any case, this forum is filled with a wonderfully diverse group of people on many levels.
I think it's normal we won't always agree.
If you need to take a break, that's your decision.
But your input here, as with every forum member's input, is valued.
Annie
Somehow I have to learn to wean myself from this forum. I still am interested in keeping Denise and her family in my thoughts and checking in on the latest news. However, the many of the discussions on this forum that have resulted from her disappearance have become hostile and I find them very difficult to read. I am still hopefully able to walk another camino in the next few years so I want to keep up with Camino news but I have to learn to step back from reading and responding to some of the threads and their posts.
Who could not love you?Gailsie, I hope you will reconsider and stay.
I realize the conversation about safety on the Camino got heated and I may be one of the people whose posts upset you.
If so, I apologize.
I quickly saw my post felt out of line to some people and I removed it right away for that reason - so my strong emotional input would not upset anyone else. It was not meant to be an attack. I was weary of hearing about the dangers of the Camino, and I guess had reached my saturation point. But I could have said it with more tact.
I found it unfortunate that people continued to refer to my post, even after it had been removed.
I still remain passionate about the Camino being safe for women, much safer than anyplace else I can think of.
I believe that with all my heart.
That has not changed.
And I realize when I'm passionate, I speak with my hands waving in the air.
Sometimes, though, the words on the written page can feel stronger than what I'm actually trying to say.
And I do need to be more careful.
In any case, this forum is filled with a wonderfully diverse group of people on many levels.
I think it's normal we won't always agree.
If you need to take a break, that's your decision.
But your input here, as with every forum member's input, is valued.
Annie
Gailsie,
I share your dismay at the behaviour of some of the members (of all levels). To me, there were some knee-jerk reactions that seemed to convey a "don't touch my camino" attitude. Which I understand. I, too, become testy when someone has a differing attitude on a subject close to my heart. But there were other, more troubling reactions that honestly angered me. The ridicule, the hostility, the us vs them attitude. Especially the curt demands from some corners that a thread be closed. They comment nine, ten times, then demand it be closed because they're "done with it"?! I find this highly disingenuous.
Sadly, something has been broken for me vis-à-vis this forum, and like Humpty Dumpty, it probably won't ever be put back together again. I won't be leaving, but I won't be investing much in it either. Not for a bit, anyway. Sadly.
Bon chemin, Gailsie.
Recently, I deleted an entire thread that I had posted. I had a veteran write and tell me that he hoped I would be able to "overcome my fear" enough to walk the Camino.
Exactly.
That's the thing with trying to convey a whole slew of emotions and nuances using only a keyboard. I would have been insulted to be contacted with such a condescending comment. Like you, I have lived a full and sometimes unquiet life. I think of myself as a prepared person; not worried, fearful, and certainly not in need of some condescending pat on the head "there, there, I hope you feel better soon."
I am already looking for a different forum for safety concerns during urban and non-wilderness hiking, even if it has nothing to do with the camino. If I find something, I will PM you. Likewise, I would not ask advice here for anything related to safety or life-and-death. I'll keep this forum for logistics and paths tips, which seems to be the comfortable and safe subjects most are used to.
You blow your whistle, you'll see me running to you. Always.
Somehow I have to learn to wean myself from this forum. I still am interested in keeping Denise and her family in my thoughts and checking in on the latest news. However, the many of the discussions on this forum that have resulted from her disappearance have become hostile and I find them very difficult to read. I am still hopefully able to walk another camino in the next few years so I want to keep up with camino news but I have to learn to step back from reading and responding to some of the threads and their posts.
S. Brown,You beat me to it. I, too, have been contemplating leaving this forum. What started out as a delightful discovery in finding this forum has deteriorated into a cringing, head-shaking experience when I read some of the responses to women who have had frightening experiences or who are concerned for their safety on the camino.
Women who have come foreword to post experiences of assault or attempted assault have been ridiculed, dismissed, and invalidated. For those who are unaware of what this does to traumatized women (or men, for that matter), it is the recipe for re-trauma. It also strikes fear in the hearts of many other women. It is no wonder some slink off and are never heard from again, or don't respond to demands to explain what exactly they mean by "molestation," or have their posted experiences or concerns removed. If that happened to me I might just turn off my computer, take a shower to try to wash off the dismissive comments, and never return.
It doesn't help to write, "don't worry, the camino is safe, you'll be just fine." Yeah, you'll be just fine unless you're the next one assaulted. The fact is: assault has happened on the camino. This is a truth; it isn't a hypothetical. And any worried woman is afraid she could be the next victim. Women are only warning others of what has happened to them or asking what they might do to protect themselves. It isn't fear mongering or paranoia. I realize many, many women walk the camino and only have wonderful, safe experiences, but it isn't the only experience to be had.
And men aren't the only offenders here. There are some female writers who are the equivalent of loud-mouthed bullies who carry big sticks and attempt to bash those who dare bring up safety concerns.
If men and women don't come forward with the realities of the camino then this forum will be a sanitized version of the truth.
My hat is off to Camino4me. You took a lot of abuse -- and was it was really hard to read --but you stood up to it beautifully.
I am very sorry to read this. I wish you all the best.Thanks
S. Brown,
Thank you for your compliment, I tried my best.
In a short moment Ivar will delete my account upon my request.
Good bye all and it has been an interesting experience.
I'm out of here
Best
Hi David I think it's this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-harassment-rape-attempt-on-the-camino.34242/
Some posts were deleted but you'll get the general tone of it.
Not only in posts. Camino4me showed me private messages she has received that made my hair stand straight up: the language, the vitriol...the completely inappropriate call for her to consult a mental health professional?! Inexcusable. If this were my venue, there would have been a good round of virtual slaps upside the head and bans. And I don't buy the "but I'm passionate about this or that".
You got it on the head, s.brown: bullies.
Anyway. I hope she manages to fight the inertia where she is now.
No, I won't abandon it. I will take Anniesantiago's advise, she is right I should spearhead on this just cause somewhere else.
I am thinking of a blog or open a facebook group. If you are interested please keep in touch with me on PM in the next couple of days to exchange contact info for further updated.
I will leave the forum within a few days, leaving me just enough time to say thank you and exchange contact with those who had expressed interest in the subject.
I wish you all the best,
Buen Camino.
You beat me to it. I, too, have been contemplating leaving this forum. What started out as a delightful discovery in finding this forum has deteriorated into a cringing, head-shaking experience when I read some of the responses to women who have had frightening experiences or who are concerned for their safety on the camino.
Women who have come foreword to post experiences of assault or attempted assault have been ridiculed, dismissed, and invalidated. For those who are unaware of what this does to traumatized women (or men, for that matter), it is the recipe for re-trauma. It also strikes fear in the hearts of many other women. It is no wonder some slink off and are never heard from again, or don't respond to demands to explain what exactly they mean by "molestation," or have their posted experiences or concerns removed. In recent weeks I sent a PM to one woman who got bombarded with negative comments about her concern for her safety. She answered that she had been crying all day over this and was profuse in her gratitude that I expressed some small concern and compassion for her treatment. If that happened to me I might just turn off my computer, take a shower to try to wash off the dismissive comments, and never return.
It doesn't help to write, "don't worry, the camino is safe, you'll be just fine." Yeah, you'll be just fine unless you're the next one assaulted. The fact is: assault has happened on the camino. This is a truth; it isn't a hypothetical. And any worried woman is afraid she could be the next victim. Women are only warning others of what has happened to them or asking what they might do to protect themselves. It isn't fear mongering or paranoia. I realize many, many women walk the camino and only have wonderful, safe experiences, but it isn't the only experience to be had.
And men aren't the only offenders here. There are some female writers who are the equivalent of loud-mouthed bullies who carry big sticks and attempt to bash those who dare bring up safety concerns.
If men and women don't come forward with the realities of the camino then this forum will be a sanitized version of the truth.
My hat is off to Camino4me. You took a lot of abuse -- and it was really hard to read --but you stood up to it beautifully.
I believe we all have to respect and understand every opinion, that's why we are here. If someone wants to read just what he/she thinks, there are other ways.
I didn't like some things Camino4me said, maybe because of the way she did, maybe because I missed the point completely, but I understand it just expressed the way she feel and I think she tried to be respectful. I made her know what I think about some things she said, could there be another reason to stay here? One asks, others respond; one tells, others give their opiniion. That's the meaning of a forum, I think.
I maintain what I said even if it upsets. And if you don't mind I would like to add that nothing on the net should be so important or transcendenal, life's too short to waist it with some things. Let's enjoy what we've got and what we do.
The first and very best lesson on the Way.
Not only in posts. Camino4me showed me private messages she has received that made my hair stand straight up: the language, the vitriol...the completely inappropriate call for her to consult a mental health professional?! Inexcusable. If this were my venue, there would have been a good round of virtual slaps upside the head and bans. And I don't buy the "but I'm passionate about this or that".
You got it on the head, s.brown: bullies.
Anyway. I hope she manages to fight the inertia where she is now.
The "Woman moderators" and the "PMs are private" are two separate topics. I mention them here since I am trying to make the forum a better place.OK what is one of the offending posts was from a moderator??????
Here are some suggestions in my humble opinion :
1. Respond kindly, reread your post, checking for tone. If too angry or does not answer the question, then rewrite it toning it down.
2. Write a post as though your mother, father, sibling, child, etc. were reading it.
3. Lastly and most important of all, please be kind to one another.
Ain't that the problem: anyone whi has not agreed with the intensity of the need for action is now being fingered by these posts and each one of us is now suspected of being bullies. After all, I have been quoated as "demading" that thread be closed when a) i asked if we were not done with the topic as we were going in circles and b) as if little old me would be able to snap her fingers and control this forum and those who have nirtured it all thse years. I still stand behind all I have said on th topic and have no issue statng my opinions publically.Before this goes any further, I'd like to state that I have never sent Camino4me any private messages.
Your post feels like you are saying that I was the one that did this.
I made 1 post that upset the original author and a few others.
I retracted that post.
Not because I didn't believe what I said was true, but because the way it was written was upsetting a few people, and that's not what I intended.
I was not bullying anyone.
I have never sent Camino4me a private message.
I removed the post.
I apologized for the misunderstanding.
She accepted.
Is there something more I can do to ease your discomfort outside of changing my opinion that the Camino is safe?
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