- Time of past OR future Camino
- To Santiago + back
2400 km + 950 nmi
160 days
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
@Bert45 plays the Cunning Mastermind who's plan to take over the world will be successful unless the riddle is solved
It's like playing chess with a Grand Master when you've only just grasped the rules for Dominoes.
While one chapter closes, another chapter opens, perhaps with new actors. @Bert45 is still looking for the location of the shelter where the movie pilgrims spent the night. To get things going, below is a screenshot of this place as shown in the movie, and next to it is a screenshot from Google Earth. Where is it?
View attachment 73270
Too hard?So why haven’t the camino sleuths started hunting for the shelter that @Kathar1na threw down the gauntlet?
Me too!I like to follow along.
Me too! I thought it must be somewhere between Torres del Río and Bargota. When I got that area on Google Maps I noticed Ermita del Poyo not far away. I had a look at it on Streetview, adding it as a destination in 'Directions'. I saw that it was not the place they spent the night and I thought I had deleted it. But when I followed the blue line, which I thought was taking me to Bargota, I ended up at the ermita. So I went back and followed the blue line to Bargota, and didn't see the structure along the way. Then I went to bed.So why haven’t the camino sleuths started hunting for the shelter that @Kathar1na threw down the gauntlet? I wouldn’t even know where to begin, but I like to follow along.
I like the challenges of online searches but I have a crippled desktop and laptop and I'm not crazy enough to try this search on my smartphone.So why haven’t the camino sleuths started hunting for the shelter that @Kathar1na threw down the gauntlet? I wouldn’t even know where to begin, but I like to follow along.
I sympathise.I like the challenges of online searches but I have a crippled desktop and laptop and I'm not crazy enough to try this search on my smartphone.
Maybe not - that's only so if you're searching at random. But:If you don't know where it is you have hundreds of miles of road to navigate in Streetview.
All the clues are in this thread where there is also a link to the whole movie.
Or, to spell out more explicitly what is now known:Maybe not - that's only so if you're searching at random. But: All the clues are in this thread where there is also a link to the whole movie.
Different gauntlets, @Bert45Just a small detail. It was not Kathar1na's gauntlet that was thrown down originally.
I think we may have lost our search crew, and also our observers. ☺Since it's a long scene in the movie I'm surprised no-one's jumping on this.
Take a look at Post #1 on this thread. To save you the trouble, it says: While one chapter closes, another chapter opens, perhaps with new actors. @Bert45 is still looking for the location of the shelter where the movie pilgrims spent the night.So, @Bert45, does that mean you're not interested in this? And BTW, she is the one who asked about the shelter. Since it's a long scene in the movie I'm surprised no-one's jumping on this.
Well, she managed to find it, and it didn't take long, so it can't be that hard.Perhaps, as you yourself said, it's too hard.
It's obvious that the place to start is the credits, eliminating the places where you know what was filmed there.Or, to spell out more explicitly what is now known:
- they filmed only in those locations for which they thanked a competent authority/owner in the credits
- the "shelter" is visible at GE Street View level
The porch is clearly facing a metalled road. In the draft script, the scenes in the shelter are 92 and 93. In the list of locations scenes 92 and 93 are listed : 90, 93, 92 (sic) CAMINO CAMPSITE. [In the script, by scene 91 it says OMIT.] The next box (on the right) which shows where the scene actually takes place (as opposed to where the scene is supposedly taking place) is blank. Scene 94, which comes before 90,93, 92 in the list is listed: 94 CAMINO COUNTRYSIDE 2 with the next box (on the right) blank. Scene 95 (which comes after scenes 83 [Camino Los Arcos], 84, 85, 86 [Camino Countryside, near Los Arcos], 87 [Camino Torres del Rio], 88, 89 [CASA DE SANTA BARBARA (El Ramón) is listed: 95 CAMINO VIANA with the next box (on the right) showing VIANA. Does that help?I recall on one of my caminos, walking along and wondering where the sheltered porch was. I never espied it, but perhaps it is at an angle that didn’t catch my eye.
By memory, the next morning, the boys show up with food from a nearby farm, the angle suggesting that the porch is not facing the path.
So give us the co-ordinates, please.I remember a similar shelter between Zubiri and Pamplona - Just sowing a seed here.
Food from a nearby farm in the movie, in reality most likely food from a production team van. ☺By memory, the next morning, the boys in the film show up with food from a nearby farm, the angle suggesting that the porch is not facing the path.
Not hard for @Kathar1na doesn't mean it won't be hard for the rest of us.Well, she [@Kathar1na] managed to find it, and it didn't take long, so it can't be that hard.
Well, I was trying to put this information into an Excel sheet to get a better idea of what is what but then I go sidetracked. Has anyone identified the house yet that they used as Ramón's house in the movie?88, 89 [CASA DE SANTA BARBARA (El Ramón) is listed: 95 CAMINO VIANA with the next box (on the right) showing VIANA. Does that help?
Oh yes! I've seen stuff on the net about it on somebody's blog. It was demolished some time in the past 10 years (i.e. I don't whether it was demolished recently or a long time ago, but obvs since the film was made). The same somebody put a photo of the site on his blog. I'm sure with enough words you or I could google it. You could follow the steps of the pilgrims from the corner identified on my Locations list to find a blank space where the house used to be.Well, I was trying to put this information into an Excel sheet to get a better idea of what is what but then I go sidetracked. Has anyone identified the house yet that they used as Ramón's house in the movie?
La casa di el ramon e situata in calle el sepulcro 24 31229 torres del rio ad agosto 2019 era ancora lì con l interno come nel film..Well, I was trying to put this information into an Excel sheet to get a better idea of what is what but then I go sidetracked. Has anyone identified the house yet that they used as Ramón's house in the movie?
Calle el sepulcro 21 scusateLa casa di el ramon e situata in calle el sepulcro 24 31229 torres del rio ad agosto 2019 era ancora lì con l interno come nel film..
I think we are in danger of getting confused here.It was demolished some time in the past 10 years (i.e. I don't whether it was demolished recently or a long time ago, but obvs since the film was made).
Yes , that's the one although it does not look like our riddle does it? What I did notice is that this shelter is always clean?Are you thinking of this place RENSHAW? At the top of the hill near Zabaldika? The bloke said that scenes from the move had been shot there
I sympathise.
Once you know where it is it is very easy to see in Google Earth Street View even on the tiny screen of an iPhone. All the clues are in this thread where there is also a link to the whole movie. And the fact that we now know that it is visible on Google Street View level should make things a lot easier.
Exactly what I said, seems like weeks ago, Mike. Last night I went through those ayuntamientos and looked within the red line boundaries and just outside them, from Armañanzas to Valcarlos (I didn't look at Aioz, because it seems so unlikely), on Google Maps. I went in quite close, but never saw anything that looked like a ruined church or that was marked as an ermita (except one that wasn't the shelter).But the €64million question is "where does one look"??? Are you prepared to give a clue?? I currently have GE up with the Ermita (N,S,) del Poyo and even with 3D I can't reconcile that location. So it has to be further West (if we keep the faith that they did not return to an earlier location). Now I have cycled and walked the section from Torres del Rio to Burgos and still can't place it. Cheers
Grandeeee stavo cercando questa..la vera casa..Look what I found!
A photo of the real "Casa Santa Barbara" of Ramón Sostre(s) in Torres del Rio! There are more photos here: https://tomas-misfotos.blogspot.com/2019/03/torres-del-rio-navarra.html . I've not read the whole entry on the website. It looks genuine, though. What do you think?
View attachment 73515
You are amazing, Kathar1na! How do you do it? The house was still there in 2019, so it appears that I have been misinformed, or had a dream that seemed like realityLook what I found!
A photo of the real "Casa Santa Barbara" of Ramón Sostre(s) in Torres del Rio! There are more photos with details of the house here: https://tomas-misfotos.blogspot.com/2019/03/torres-del-rio-navarra.html . I've not read the whole entry on the website. It looks genuine, though. What do you think?
View attachment 73515
Which eremita was that?Last night I went through those ayuntamientos and looked within the red line boundaries and just outside them, from Armañanzas to Valcarlos (I didn't look at Aioz, becuse it seems so unlikely), on Google Maps. I went in quite close, but never saw anything that looked like a ruined church or that was marked as an ermita (except one that wasn't the shelter).
I don't know why they picked the name "Ramón" for the person in the movie because as far as I understand it the movie personality is a gross exaggeration of Señor Sostres' personality. Maybe because he was no longer alive and had no family who could sue them.
At last, I found it! I didn't get the sense of achievement that you and Raggy must have done, as Raggy's photo from Google Earth, with that distinctive field, practically took me there. But it's miles (1.3 miles) from Armañanzas and nearly three miles from Bargota, and over two miles from Torres del Río, in the wrong direction for anybody following the Camino Francés. Yes, it's on a blue line, but you would never see it till you get close, and then you have to keep moving along the blue line, not knowing if you're in the right parish, heading in the right direction. It's in my List of Locations now. And that's about it! So what do we do for the rest of the week?Which eremita was that?
Don't forget that the "shelter" is on one of the blue lines, i.e. roads that you see when you activate Google Street View in Google Earth. And that the movie crew did not travel forwards and backwards much, they just travelled sideways sometimes. And although some scenes are out of sequence in the final version of the movie, they did film more or less in geographical sequence.
Grazieeeeeee....stavo impazzendo..At last, I found it! I didn't get the sense of achievement that you and Raggy must have done, as Raggy's photo from Google Earth, with that distinctive field, practically took me there. But it's miles (1.3 miles) from Armañanzas and nearly three miles from Bargota, and over two miles from Torres del Río, in the wrong direction for anybody following the Camino Francés. Yes, it's on a blue line, but you would never see it till you get close, and then you have to keep moving along the blue line, not knowing if you're in the right parish, heading in the right direction. It's in my List of Locations now. And that's about it! So what do we do for the rest of the week?
There were two, actually. The Ermita de San Blas just west of the red line around Los Arcos, and Ermita del Calvario, west of the red line around Villamayor de Monjardín. A couple of places I just searched gave a very large area within a red line, whereas, last night, the red line was just around the village I put in the search box. There were 16 ayuntamientos listed. If you tackled them in alphabetical order, ignoring Aoiz, you might have struck lucky with Armañanzas. Or not.Which eremita was that?
Don't forget that the "shelter" is on one of the blue lines, i.e. roads that you see when you activate Google Street View in Google Earth. And that the movie crew did not travel forwards and backwards much, they just travelled sideways sometimes. And although some scenes are out of sequence in the final version of the movie, they did film more or less in geographical sequence.
I don't buy that. I think that's what people say, or believe, with little knowledge of recent Camino history. The sorry state of Ramón Sostres' house in Torres del Rio, including the outdoors "bathroom", is described in numerous pilgrim reports of the early days, including Jack Hitt's book on which the script of the movie "The Way" is largely based, as well as in at least one other earlier book. Ramón Sostres was dedicated to serving pilgrims.I seem to recall reading that they picked it as a joke -- because "Ramon" was Martin Sheen's baptismal name!
You can see the administrative area of any ayuntamiento in Google Earth, if you choose the right settings.I pointed out a few times that an ayuntamiento includes all the ground, i.e. also fields, vineyards, orchards, meadows and so on. You can see the administrative area of any ayuntamiento in Google Earth if you chose the right settings. It is easier to see in IGN maps. Below is a map view that shows the borders of Bargota, Amañanzas, Torres del Rio etc. It even shows the location of the Eremita de San Juan aka as "the pilgrim shelter in The Way".
View attachment 73532
The comment of the photographer says: In this building began perhaps the modern hospitality for the pilgrims going to Santiago as practiced by Ramon Sostres and described on the wooden sign of the facade.A photo of the real "Casa Santa Barbara" of Ramón Sostre(s) in Torres del Rio! There are more photos with details of the house here: https://tomas-misfotos.blogspot.com/2019/03/torres-del-rio-navarra.html .
View attachment 73515
The sorry state of Ramón Sostres' house in Torres del Rio, including the outdoors "bathroom", is described in numerous pilgrim reports of the early days, including Jack Hitt's book on which the script of the movie "The Way" is largely based,
Here is what a chap wrote in 2014 (caminodesantiagolite.blogspot):Here is something of Hitt's early-1990s description [p. 83 and ff.]
"The Wild Bunch directs me to a street on the edge of town. Casa Santa Barbara is a stunning mansion, a wide boxy symmetry of two-story windows... A set of hedges frames an impressive entrance of twin doors. Every inch of the yellow stone is blanketed in luxurious green ivy. Above the door is a colorful tile depicting Santa Barbara, the patroness of military artillery. On the ground is a curled wrought-iron boot scrape...."
Is that the house pictured in item 43, above? I don't think so.
At last, I found it! I didn't get the sense of achievement that you and Raggy must have done, as Raggy's photo from Google Earth, with that distinctive field, practically took me there. But it's miles (1.3 miles) from Armañanzas and nearly three miles from Bargota, and over two miles from Torres del Río, in the wrong direction for anybody following the Camino Francés. Yes, it's on a blue line, but you would never see it till you get close, and then you have to keep moving along the blue line, not knowing if you're in the right parish, heading in the right direction. It's in my List of Locations now. And that's about it! So what do we do for the rest of the week?
Some people really have a knack of sitting on informationHere is what a chap wrote in 2014 (caminodesantiagolite.blogspot): I end up with a hand-drawn map but finally understand that Ramon is dead and his house no longer stands. There is a photo of where the house used to stand, allegedly. It is an empty field of grey-brown soil, not worth showing here.
No, it is not. The photographer got it wrong. The house pictured in item 43 above has a plaque commemorating Ramón Sostres but it is not the site where his house stood. I corrected earlier comments because I’ve now found the right location and even a photo of the derelict house. This topic has come up several times over the years and this conundrum is now finally solved.Is that the house pictured in item 43, above? I don't think so.
Some people really have a knack of sitting on information. The photo of this blogger is worth looking at. It helped greatly to finally find a photo of Señor Ramón's house! The house is indeed now completely demolished and gone for good.
The photographer quoted in post 54 above got it wrong. The building he photographed is actually part of the Pata de Oca albergue in Torres del Rio and merely has a commemorative plaque for Señor Ramón.
Ooh, we can turn this into another little challenge ☺. Below is a view of the cadaster map for Torres del Rio for the year 2004. Three sites are marked:The splendid photo in question. No address is given, and there are no landmarks visible in the photo to help other curiosity seekers to find it.
Google Earth and the above location information is all you need to find a view of both the derelict home of Ramón Sostres and a view of the empty space that is there now.
My picture on Google Earth says that the date of the imagery is 6/20/2015. It is copyrighted 2020. But, no matter, the house was there in 2012, but in ruins, and it wasn't there is 2015. I did not understand Karthar1na's comment: The photo of this blogger is worth looking at. It helped greatly to finally find a photo of Señor Ramón's house! I thought she was saying that the photo shows Señor Ramón's house, but that is not what she is saying. She says that the photo helped her to find a photo of the house. Two separate photos.Yep, Aniello. The satellite photo with the empty lot at 6 Calle la Carrera was taken this year, the Google Street View car last went by way back in 2012, apparently. Are those trees growing out of the roof in the 2012? No wonder the film's producers had to come up with a different location in 2010/2011, it was no doubt too far gone a year earlier than when this picture was snapped.
Let me see if I can get a picture to attach here:View attachment 73700
The plaque on the house in Calle San Andrés says that he died in 2002. The + in "+2002" indicates that 2002 was the year of his death.[QUOTE = "rappahannock_rev, post: 846116, membro: 16153"]
Quando è morto Ramon Sostres? Dove è sepolto? Qualcuno in grado di indicarci un necrologio o una sua fotografia? O a una fotografia di Casa Santa Barbara ai suoi tempi?
[/CITAZIONE]
Qui si fa interessante la
Aniello wrote: The house of el ramon is located in calle el sepulcro [21] 31229 torres del rio in august 2019 it was still there with the interior as in the film. The house at Calle el Sepulcro 21 appears to be single-storied, from the view we have in the film and on Streetview, whereas the house in the film had a second storey. However, if you follow Streetview around to the side of the house in Calle los Fueros, you can see that there is a second storey. You can see the gate at the back from the outside:La casa di el ramon e situata in calle el sepulcro 24 31229 torres del rio ad agosto 2019 era ancora lì con l interno come nel film..
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the house of Señor Ramón in Torres del Rio has been found. Not only was it in the location as described by the elderly bar owner ("turn right just before the church - get off the Camino - and look for the empty lot past the bank"), it also fits Jack Hitt's description to a t. It is at the edge of town. It is a mansion. It has two stories. There is a twin door entry on one side and another door on the other side and, above this door, one can still see the place where the sculpture of Santa Barbara must have been.directs me to a street on the edge of town. Casa Santa Barbara is a stunning mansion, a wide boxy symmetry of two-story windows... A set of hedges frames an impressive entrance of twin doors. Every inch of the yellow stone is blanketed in luxurious green ivy. Above the door is a colorful tile depicting Santa Barbara
Thank you for keeping us posted. And look what I've found: A photo with the inscription "Pino Toniolo in Torres del Rio with Ramón Sostres". It is published in the edition of "Peregrino" of 1 May 1990 and was taken in the summer of 1989, I think. Pino Toniolo is apparantly an Italian pilgrim who wrote an article about his pilgrimage in this edition of the Boletin of the Spanish Camino association. Señor Sostres looks to me like I had imagined him from what I had read about him, a rather modest and gentle person.mi sono attivato scrivendo una mail all ufficio di torres del rio chiedendo dove era sepolto il.sign sostres...e se avessero foto di archivio..vediamo se mi rispondono..
Are you saying that they filmed the scene in the derelict house with the view of the actual garden? It seems unlikely to me, but stranger things happen.which matches up with the partial view of the back wall of the garden/bathroom seen in the film.
I fail to be convinced. Did you read Jack Hitt's book that served as a basis for some of the movie content? Jack Hitt who was not a run-of-the-mill pilgrim who turned his diary notes into a self-published account available on Amazon for a handful of €'s or $'s but an accomplished journalist and author who wrote a book of camino stories that sold?I think, though, that El Ramon, as portrayed in the film, owes less to Ramón Sostres than it does to Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho.
This happens to me eventually on most threads with the red notification bells and I never know why. The notifications hum along nicely for awhile and then seem to get very inconsistent or nonexistent and is sometimes frustrating. Do you or anyone else know what causes this? I am very techy challenged.I just noticed that I did't get email notifications when a new post appears in this thread, I guess that setting did not get transferred when the thread was split.
Unfortunately, I don't think that he really establishes a reason for the pilgrims to be scared. You feel Jack's discomfort at the lack of an inside privy, for sure, but there's nothing creepy about El Ramon or the albergue. Until I realized that Estevez was playing back a snippet of Psycho at us, I couldn't really understand why they didn't want Tom to leave them behind downstairs (a nonsense, since he was the one going alone).
Now that we've found (almost) all of the locations, how about finding all of the artistic references? We could map the Inside Camino of The Way.
Wow, Rick, this is like a foreign language to me.I'm currently working on a webpage version of most everything (but it is a do when I feel like it project). It will be built off a database and some code so it will be easy to modify the presentation. I'll ask for comments on a draft version later.
Sorry. You asked me about this earlier. I've been seeing this a lot myself recently. I can't think of a reason.This happens to me eventually on most threads with the red notification bells and I never know why. The notifications hum along nicely for awhile and then seem to get very inconsistent or nonexistent and is sometimes frustrating. Do you or anyone else know what causes this? I am very techy challenged.
It's probably because I am not American, ie I don't have the cultural background of having grown up in America, that I also fail to see that 'The Way' retells the story of the 'Wizard of Oz'. Emilio Estevez claimed this repeatedly in 2011 in interviews when they promoted the movie and it made a good angle for headlines. 'My dad Martin Sheen is Dorothy ...'. But other than that? A few people meet who didn't know each other, travel together to some distant destination, have adventures, experience some conflict within the group, learn to understand each other better, become friends and undergo some inner change for the better ... aren't these the basic ingredients of hundreds if not thousands of story lines all over the world and throughout the centuries?I agree that Estevez missed the mark on making the scene scary but by having the trio want Tom's company he reinforces Tom as the central character (as he does again at the hotel).
Maybe ask @ivar.Do you or anyone else know what causes this? I am very techy challenged.
Interesting thought/answer, VN...hmmm.Maybe ask @ivar.
I have always assumed it's a way of encouraging thread obsolecence - to keep people moving to new threads instead of staying in one place. Forums grow faster that way, right?
Sure, because there are only seven stories in the world. Or is it three? Or eleven? Or ...... aren't these the basic ingredients of hundreds if not thousands of story lines all over the world and throughout the centuries?
No. I'll take a look.I fail to be convinced. Did you read Jack Hitt's book that served as a basis for some of the movie content?
Hmm. Well I'm not sorry about that. I want to enjoy Quentin Tarantino's films but ... that's another story.All I want to add is this: Emilio Estevez is no Quentin Tarantino.
Post hoc ergo propter hocI'm glad that I learned about Ramón Sostres from this thread. We owe a lot to those pioneers with their "build it and they will come" vision for the Camino.
I think, though, that El Ramon, as portrayed in the film, owes less to Ramón Sostres than it does to Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho. When "El Ramon" goes upstairs to serve himself wine and conduct both sides of a conversation, he is like Norman voicing the dialogue of a son and mother. It's said that Hitchcock chose the name Norman because it sounds like "Normal" and the name Marion was chosen as an "almost mirror" of Norman. Perhaps Estevez had all of that in mind when he planned this scene - and the fact that his father's name is Ramon may have convinced him that it was a good idea. Unfortunately, I don't think that he really establishes a reason for the pilgrims to be scared. You feel Jack's discomfort at the lack of an inside privy, for sure, but there's nothing creepy about El Ramon or the albergue. Until I realized that Estevez was playing back a snippet of Psycho at us, I couldn't really understand why they didn't want Tom to leave them behind downstairs (a nonsense, since he was the one going alone). Now that I know that there was a real Ramon, I don't know if it was such a good thing to throw in this flight of fancy.
Other movie and theatre references / homages -
Emilio Estevez has spoken about the plot's resemblance to The Wizard of Oz. (Dorothy on a journey with three companions - Scarecrow, Lion, and Tinman - who are all hoping to fix their problems in the Emerald City). I think this might be a half truth. I doubt that Estevez was thinking too much about The Wizard Of Oz. Literature and film is filled with "Hero's Journey" plots (e.g. The Odyssey, Lord of The Rings, ) so it's inevitable that they resemble each another. The Tom as Dorothy theory might have been a joke among the cast and crew during filming, rather than a real source of inspiration.
I'm convinced that the character of Jack draws from The Melancholy Jaques in As You Like It. When the trio meet Jack, he's lost in thought in the middle of a field - like Jaques who gets lost in his thoughts in the forest of Arden, Jack is introduced to us through an "almost monologue" about all the metaphors of the Camino - very much in the style of verbal prestidigitations of Jaques. (e.g. The Seven Degrees of Lying, The Seven Ages of Man). Apparently the part of Jack was originally written as an Englishman but James Nesbitt was excited about the film and asked for the part. Estevez decided not to ask Nesbitt to play an Englishman, but to have him do the part in his own voice.
Now that we've found (almost) all of the locations, how about finding all of the artistic references? We could map the Inside Camino of The Way.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?