Ilgin Oya Yavuz
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- I'm planing to walk the Camino during September 2015
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I love that noise! Throw away the rubber tips...don't make that clack-clack-clacking noise
Carbon fiber poles tend to snap if the are flexed, my observation of broken carbon fiber poles is that they often snap if stuck between a couple of good size rocks. Aluminum poles will flex before they fail, but again its usually a problem where the end is stuck and bending force is placed on the pole.I've seen the remains of broken poles left behind. I can only wonder at the accident that caused the person to put such stress on the pole. I also wonder what would happen should someone fall onto a pole that has just snapped.
I totally, but respectufully disagree. The point of the poles are to take your weight. The problem is that many poles are reasonably poor quality. This is especially true of the 3 part poles. The "clamp" style locks are not as secure as the "internal twist locks" and can't take the same amount of weight as the twist style locks. But the clamp locks are far more popular because they are fast and simple. I've tested some of the "box store" poles and put my weight on those and had them collapse into themselves just under my pressure. They would totally fail under a slip/fall situation.Don't put your weight on the poles, particularly if you are using the pole to avoid slipping. Its not intended to take that kind of stress.
So okay for the camino but leave it at home if you are walking trails. Bring an ice axe instead.
The problem is that many poles are reasonably poor quality
This is probably true. Many of those poles are probably designed for "exercise walking" on city & suburban trails by fitness buffs wearing a designer jogging suit.The poles are good enough for the purpose for which they are designed
But for people who don't know much, if anything, about trekking poles, how are they supposed to tell the difference between an "exercise type" walking pole set that can't support their weight when they stumble and an a set of trekking poles that are designed for off road use, rough trail use, and for long distance walking with packs?whariwharangi said:The problem comes when people use them in situations for which they were not designed.
This is probably true. Many of those poles are probably designed for "exercise walking" on city & suburban trails by fitness buffs wearing a designer jogging suit.
But for people who don't know much, if anything, about trekking poles, how are they supposed to tell the difference between an "exercise type" walking pole set that can't support their weight when they stumble and an a set of trekking poles that are designed for off road use, rough trail use, and for long distance walking with packs?
@Melensdad, you have made this point before, and I didn't ask then but I will now - do you have some evidence of this? I ask because my personal experience is exactly the opposite, and the only poles where the lock has permanently failed were internal twist locks. In both cases, the plastic expansion plug had failed because the threads had been stripped, and there was nothing that could be done to fix them. In contrast, I have seen several flick locks that might appear to have failed, but on closer examination, I have found that all they needed was adjustment. (And of course, as a boy at heart, I had the necessary multi-tool with screwdriver blade to do that!)The "clamp" style locks are not as secure as the "internal twist locks" and can't take the same amount of weight as the twist style locks.
Here you go, it is from Leki, but it gives some facts about certifications.@Melensdad, you have made this point before, and I didn't ask then but I will now - do you have some evidence of this?....
In some box stores it would be difficult to find someone to sell you anything, harder yet to find someone who can explain how to use or why to use trekking poles. Yet these stores probably sell a lot of poles.And now we come to trust. Do you trust the person selling you those poles?...
I get that, which is why I pointed out that they cited industry certifications.@Melensdad, thanks, but I was interested in evidence, not advertising.
I have yet to try Pacer poles, but I have promised to fix this gap in my education and experience at the first available opportunity. What I would observe is that they are almost impossible to use incorrectly. I think you would have to try very hard indeed to not adopt the correct grip. The rest is then up to you.Have been told I do not know how to use them properly. So I have just bought a pair of Pacer Poles.
You are right, we bring different perspectives to this discussion. I will continue to take the view that advertising is not a useful source of objective evidence, nor a good source of information for comparative assessments. I have used Leki, and still have a pair that I don't use any more, and use Komperdell or Black Diamond. I think Leki make a good pole, but equally, the only pole I have seen bend was a Leki, and the weight that one was carrying at the time was only around 100kg. Perhaps their locks are stronger than the poles themselves!!I suppose we could keep up this discussion but I've never seen any evidence to the contrary of what I wrote about the twist locks being stronger.
Pacer poles are my choice because of the fact it is almost impossible to use them incorrectly. That was their primary selling point to me and I haven't regretted the decision.
No walking pole is unbreakable, virtually or otherwise. If too much bending force is applied to the shafts, they will bend or break. The springs in sprung poles eventually collapse if they are getting compressed fully regularly. These things may not be common, but it is not unreasonable that they happen.I'm not sure how people manage to break there sticks but these are virtually unbreakable.
That's why, on long downhills, one lengthens the pole a bit, whether it's a Pacer Pole or not. Just for the record, I own a pair of Pacer Poles, and have used them with great joy -- and occasional lifesaving results -- on four separate long European walks. One trip, I even refused an offer to sell them at any price.Your wrists will be in an impossible position trying to place the poles in front of you.
(I own a pare of pacerpoles)
Are you suggesting that the shaft cannot be lengthened enough to bring the wrists into a more natural position?Your wrists will be in an impossible position trying to place the poles in front of you.
(I own a pare of pacerpoles)
It might not be your experience, but I have seen a bent metal pole from when it took someone's full weight when they slipped. I rather suspect that a carbon fibre pole would have shattered under the same circumstances. I certainly don't think it is usual, just clearly not impossible.Sure, bend them over your knee and you will be able to snap them.
Otherwise it's just unnecessary to even mention it in my opinion.
I've used and abused poles for years and years, cheap ones, expensive ones of all sort of materials.
Did you ever had a stick broken dougfitz or see any reasonable way they would brake?
I'm still having difficulty seeing what the issue is, but then I am not a Pacer Pole owner or user. If this issue only occurs on extreme slopes, I wonder if it is likely to affect anyone on any of the pilgrim routes. Was it an issue for you on the CF?No, they can be lengthened enough for any reasonable amount of slope.
Its just... well hard to explain.
Give your monitor a thumbs-up, then bend your thumb towards you almost to the point were your wrist hurts.
Keep your wrist like that and place it on the edge of your desk and push down hard.
Imagine doing that for half an hour and how your wrist would feel.
That is pacerpoles going downhill.
With straight handles you just grip them differently or place the palm of your hands on the 'knob'.
I'm not anti-pacerpole or anything... it's just they do have their downsides.
Thanks, everyone. I was curious since I do have pacer poles but live in flat, flat Florida.
EDIT MartinZ , we cross posted, but it seems to me that your grip explanation is totally not how the pacer pole folks say to use them in their video.
There are stretches, down from Alto del Perdon and into Molinaseca come to mind, where pole plants must accommodate rocks. I find the Pacer Pole grips make it easier to plant the pole, but extending them helps. The agile pilgrims just bounded from rock to rock. That look much easier to me, but then it has been a decade since my legs did any bounding, so I trusted my poles.If this issue only occurs on extreme slopes, I wonder if it is likely to affect anyone on any of the pilgrim routes.
I leave bounding from rock to rock to my teenage grandchildrenThe agile pilgrims just bounded from rock to rock. That look much easier to me, but then it has been a decade since my legs did any bounding, so I trusted my poles.
Ooops, did we get carried away and forget to answer the question?
2 basic criteria: material and length. Carbon is lighter but can snap? Metal is heavier but will bend if forced. Your body wight will help you know if you can get away with carbon.
Then it's about how they fold and thei length when folded. Must they fit in you backpack? Do you mind fiddling with them even if you will have better length adjustment.
No men or women except if men don't like purple.
Tips are also a factor: for road work you will want a rubber tip. For gravel, rock and other hard surfaces you will want graphite tips that do not slip on rocks.
Length is key: 90 degree angle to your bent arm.
Hope this helps.
Enjoy your CaminoThank you for the detailed explanation. I will definitely consider...
Because I didn't want to deal with poles on a plane I bought mine in Pamplona for 9 euros. they telescoped down very small and were adjustable and had a shock for cushion . on the way home I stuffed them in my bag and had the airport shrink wrap my bag and checked it. I liked the rubber tips for traction here and there. They hang on the wall now next to my map of Spain whispering vamos !Dear Camino Friends,
I will start my first Camino on September and need an advice for buying the correct walking poles.
Are there differences of men and women? The length, handles, weight, etc?
I will appreciate your experiences...
Buen Camino...
Consider some of the ultra-compact poles made specifically for travel, they come apart to make them smaller and may fit inside your backpack for transit on an airplane. Here is a link to LEKI but there are other brands offering similar products http://shop.leki.com/en/category.php?product_category_id=8423
I like LEKI poles personally, they have a 7 degree angle on the grips and with the arthritis in my hands/wrists/arms I also use their anti-shock poles, which I really find useful on very hard surfaces like roadways, but it offers nothing on grassy fields, soft ground, etc. Do a couple searches and you will find some pretty extensive posts about trekking poles with photos. Sadly LEKI doesn't make a travel style pole with anti-shock.
As for grips, yes they are specific for Left & Right hands and yes there are Men's and Ladies grips (mens grips are usually larger) and most people tend to prefer cork or cork composite grips. They work well in all weather (wet/cold/hot/snow) conditions and your hands don't end up smelling like rubber/plastic. The difference is not so much the feel of the cork when you intially grip it but rather the overall way cork responds to the weather and tends to not become as hard in the cold, as hot in the heat, etc.
BUT no matter what brand you buy, make sure to buy the optional RUBBER FEET/TIPS/TIP COVERS so you don't make that clack-clack-clacking noise.
I hate it especially on level ground when they are not needed. It spoils tranquility, birdsong, wind/water-noise and contemplationI love that noise! Throw away the rubber tips...
I hate it especially on level ground when they are not needed.
What you understand to be useful, and what is actually useful, are actually quite different.Oh yes, that needless continuous click- clacking has really annoyed me on my caminos, especially on concrete level roads. I have speeded up to get away from it to find i get near another untipped pair. It spoils the birdsong, wind and quiet I love. I can only see there use on hills and uneven ground as being useful. I prefer a stick. Yes, please use hard rubber tips for the sake of others, or better still just walk.
What you understand to be useful, and what is actually useful, are actually quite different.
My family just finished hiking across England (finished a few days ago) and trekking poles on all types of terrain have been proven to be useful by each of us, and countless others. You may not understand it, but even on flat ground the use of trekking poles are helpful when hiking, poles promote a better posture, which enhances lung capacity while carrying a pack.
FWIW, we all use rubber tips on asphalt/concrete, etc.
... Continue using the tips please ...
Different brands use different types. Leki uses a slip on rubber tip. Black Diamond screws on/off.I have Black Diamond Z poles, carbon fiber, purchased for training. I've never actually used the rubber tips as I primarily train on dirt or gravel. I'm not opposed to using the rubber but it does seem cumbersome to have to switch back and forth all the time, all that unscrewing and screwing. Is there a product that just fits over the metal tips when your encounter paved surfaces?
I haven't seen a slip on tip specifically for the Z poles that would allow you to use the carbide tip and then slip a rubber tip over the top. It is possible to use a generic pole tip such as the replacement Black Diamond or Leki tips, but they don't seem to be quite tight enough. If you use the carbide tip, and wrap a length of gaffer tape around the bottom part of the pole where the carbide tip screws in, you can get a much tighter fit. One that is less likely to see the tips coming off quite so easily.I have Black Diamond Z poles, carbon fiber, purchased for training. I've never actually used the rubber tips as I primarily train on dirt or gravel. I'm not opposed to using the rubber but it does seem cumbersome to have to switch back and forth all the time, all that unscrewing and screwing. Is there a product that just fits over the metal tips when your encounter paved surfaces?
Thanks. I'll give the gaffer tape remedy a try.I haven't seen a slip on tip specifically for the Z poles that would allow you to use the carbide tip and then slip a rubber tip over the top. It is possible to use a generic pole tip such as the replacement Black Diamond or Leki tips, but they don't seem to be quite tight enough. If you use the carbide tip, and wrap a length of gaffer tape around the bottom part of the pole where the carbide tip screws in, you can get a much tighter fit. One that is less likely to see the tips coming off quite so easily.
On the subject of rubber tip quality, I have had good mileage out of Leki tips in the past, but they are very expensive here in Australia, and the replacement Black Diamond rubber tips give a similar life at lower cost. I have also imported the Swix walking foot when the Leki walking foot wasn't being carried by the Australian wholesaler. There are a variety of others that I have tried from time-to-time that have worn out much more quickly.
I "won't leave home" without them. Helps when climbing "the gently rolling hills of Spain" and descending said hills. Helps maintain balance on all types of terrain and takes a lot of strain off legs and back. I use Black Diamond folding cross country ski poles. Hundreds of miles of training walks and 2 Caminos. Take extra tips. Click click click is bad.Dear Camino Friends,
I will start my first Camino on September and need an advice for buying the correct walking poles.
Are there differences of men and women? The length, handles, weight, etc?
I will appreciate your experiences...
Buen Camino...
I didn't find that Martin...I thought they were extremely useful....made me feel more confident on some of the more tricky downhill bits ...loose rock and stones....maybe I had different technique of using my pacers.Your wrists will be in an impossible position trying to place the poles in front of you.
(I own a pare of pacerpoles)
It is probably not the best trekking pole when used alone. The point of trekking poles is not in weight, strength, engineering, or price. It is in using two of them properly.This is Outdoor Gear Lab's Editor's Choice "best trekking pole" for hiking and backpacking.
No, the CF is not the PCT. But that misses the point and throws up a misguided bit of logic about the purpose of trekking poles.Sorry Falcon - about this you're wrong. This is Black Diamond's Alpine Carbon Solo Trekking Pole. Lightweight and functional, the 100% carbon fiber Black Diamond Alpine Carbon Solo trekking pole is perfect for a bit of stability on the trail. The primary difference between the model I posted and the Black Diamond Solo is weight and the cork handle. I want the lower weight and full cork handle.
The Camino Frances isn't the Pacific Crest Trail. Not everyone wants or needs dual poles on a walk like the Camino. PS - I'm trying to buy one not sell one.
It is probably not the best trekking pole when used alone.The point of trekking poles is not in weight, strength, engineering, or price. It is in using two of them properly. Regardless, good luck in selling one.
Don't put your weight on the poles, particularly if you are using the pole to avoid slipping. Its not intended to take that kind of stress
Hi!
Does anyone know can I buy poles from Ponferrada?
I'll arrive in Madrid, but not sure I have time to shop there - but still, maybe someone knows a place near Chamartin station in Madrid? I have little time to look around there.
Thanks!
I love the way you are good at repeating the company's promotional lines!!Lightweight and functional, the 100% carbon fiber Black Diamond Alpine Carbon Solo trekking pole is perfect for a bit of stability on the trail.
Really. I don't think this forum is a place for silly threats like this.How about ya'll not step on my post, and I won't step on yours
There is a Gear for Sale - Gear Needed section of the forum where you can do just that. It sits under the Equipment Questions section of the forum.let me advertise the idea of sharing the cost of a new pole with another OP
Sublimely ridiculous.You two pole types are religious about it.
There is a "Micro Vario" which offers about 20cm of adjustment.Have a look at Leki Micro Sticks which are very light but get good advice on the correct length for you as they're not adjustable. They also have the advantage of folding very small into a little bag which is great if you want to go into a church, shop or other place where poles are unwelcome. Also please get rubber stops plus spares for road walking to prevent all that noise!
Good Luck.
Kathar1na said:I'm the "poles only needed when going down really steep mountain paths or crossing a snow field" type. I am more a one pole type than a two pole type. And I am a "only the best outdoor gear for me" type. Incidentally, I was planning on getting some Black Diamond set, having read that they are the best.
So now that you have expressed your opinion, all the rest of us are now expected to remain silent? This is a discussion forum! If you want to buy or sell something without discussion there is a place for that too. But don't expect to others not to contribute to threads in a discussion forum.And if you don't think such a request should be in this thread, Fine. Think that all you want. But please, keep your opinion to yourself.
Doug you silly silly man. Don't you understand that he gets to have his way, everyone else has to shut up.So now that you have expressed your opinion, all the rest of us are now expected to remain silent? This is a discussion forum! If you want to buy or sell something without discussion there is a place for that too. But don't expect to others not to contribute to threads in a discussion forum.
@lik, thank you for sharing this. It is a nice article, but not great. For a start, the headline is 'How to use trekking poles' - it clearly doesn't do that. Rather it presents some good, and some dubious, reasons for using poles. Most of these have been discussed here before, but it is useful to be reminded of them from time to time.Hi guys. Perhaps, this article can be useful http://overmountain.uk/hiking-poles/
@lik, thank you for sharing this. It is a nice article, but not great. For a start, the headline is 'How to use trekking poles' - it clearly doesn't do that. Rather it presents some good, and some dubious, reasons for using poles. Most of these have been discussed here before, but it is useful to be reminded of them from time to time.
I love the idea of using a hiking pole to defend yourself against attack by wolves and bears.@lik, thank you for sharing this. It is a nice article, but not great. For a start, the headline is 'How to use trekking poles' - it clearly doesn't do that. Rather it presents some good, and some dubious, reasons for using poles. Most of these have been discussed here before, but it is useful to be reminded of them from time to time.
"a bad day at work in Afghanistan" - I don't know which to admire the more, the level of your understatement or your choice of PacerPoles, both of which I applaud. May you continue to be able to use them for a very long time.I'm just chipping in with my support for Pacer poles, both on the flat and on slopes (i.e. I use them all the time). I had a bad day at work in Afghanistan and am now a Blue Badge holder, but Pacer poles have made my long distance hiking possible again. Of course training helps, but walking aids aids my walking. I started with 'regular' poles and took a chance with Pacers and have never looked back. Each to his own, but I always fold them down each night and secure them in my rucksack; they are a lifesaver for me and should they go missing I would have to drop my daily mileage a considerable amount. One stick, two sticks better!
I'm just chipping in with my support for Pacer poles, both on the flat and on slopes (i.e. I use them all the time). I had a bad day at work in Afghanistan and am now a Blue Badge holder, but Pacer poles have made my long distance hiking possible again.
I had wondered when bears and wolves were last seen in the Lake District! Perhaps all those Pacer pole users have scared them off?I love the idea of using a hiking pole to defend yourself against attack by wolves and bears.
Presumably you wave your nice, shiny hiking pole at them and then run away while they lay on the forest floor peeing themselves with laughter?
There's a trick an old indian guide taught me - if it works for mountain lions I'm sure it'll work for bears.I had wondered when bears and wolves were last seen in the Lake District! Perhaps all those Pacer pole users have scared them off?
I do not love that noise! But if you use the rubber tips to avoid the noise you could as well put away the poles. Rubber tips take away most the intension of the poles, the grip. You can never trust poles with rubber tips neither up or down, nor in mud when the tips often fall off. I use poles every day, and rather put them away on hard road.I love that noise! Throw away the rubber tips...
This is quite different from my experience. Sure there are some surfaces where a rubber tip will slip from time to time, but these are easy enough to identify and adjust the angle of the pole and pressure applied to the pole.But if you use the rubber tips to avoid the noise you could as well put away the poles. Rubber tips take away most the intension of the poles, the grip. You can never trust poles with rubber tips neither up or down, nor in mud when the tips often fall off.
I've never had a problem on a Camino with the grip when there was a rubber tip on the pole. On the other hand, if there is no rubber tip, I have had problems with the pole sliding on smooth surfaces, either stone or tile.I do not love that noise! But if you use the rubber tips to avoid the noise you could as well put away the poles. Rubber tips take away most the intension of the poles, the grip. You can never trust poles with rubber tips neither up or down, nor in mud when the tips often fall off. I use poles every day, and rather put them away on hard road.
Same here. For about the first two days on my first Camino I tried putting on/taking off the tips depending on the terrain and it was hard to remove them each time. I didn't have any problems leaving them on for approximately 2400 km of camino walking.I've never had a problem on a Camino with the grip when there was a rubber tip on the pole. On the other hand, if there is no rubber tip, I have had problems with the pole sliding on smooth surfaces, either stone or tile.
To be honest, depending on which Camino you are doing, I would not take walking poles, they are more of a problem than a help. I use them in Nepal and Ladakh but on most Camino's in Spain they are not essential. If both hands have a stick ; when you want some water or something else you need to stop and swop the sticks to get a free hand.Dear Camino Friends,
I will start my first Camino on September and need an advice for buying the correct walking poles.
Are there differences of men and women? The length, handles, weight, etc?
I will appreciate your experiences...
Buen Camino...
I would suggest that this is a clear indication, @steve cole, that you were either using the poles without the strap, or have put the straps on your wrists the wrong way around. Only when the straps are worn incorrectly do the poles remain in the palm of one's hand when the pole is released and get in the road of your hands.To be honest, depending on which Camino you are doing, I would not take walking poles, they are more of a problem than a help. I use them in Nepal and Ladakh but on most Camino's in Spain they are not essential. If both hands have a stick ; when you want some water or something else you need to stop and swop the sticks to get a free hand.
I would suggest that this is a clear indication, @steve cole, that you were either using the poles without the strap, or have put the straps on your wrists the wrong way around. Only when the straps are worn incorrectly do the poles remain in the palm of one's hand when the pole is released and get in the road of your hands.
When the straps are worn correctly, the poles will fall away from your hands, leaving them free to take grab one's camera to take photos, retrieve one's water bottle, pick one's nose (or get a hankie to blow it!) or any of the other myriad uses we have for our hands.
There are plenty of good videos showing correct pole use on Vimeo and Youtube. Look for those where the strap loops up over the top of the wrist. Unfortunately, there are probably just as many showing incorrect strap use, where the loop of the strap goes under the wrist, and not over the top from the underside.
Need trekking poles to walk the Camino? Certainly not. They are not a necessity. Tens of thousands of pilgrims a year walk the Camino all matter of distances without trekking poles, and do it successfully. Pilgrims of all varieties, age, weight, physical fitness levels. Of course many pilgrims do carry them and do not use them to their full potential. In that case the trekking poles are simply unused additional weight to carry. So yes, you are correct. Improperly used trekking poles are not needed to walk the Camino, just as you said overloaded backpacks are not either, but they will always be there.I personally agree with @steve cole on this one, especially on the CF i feel there is no need for Walking poles at all. I saw many people walking incorrectly due to the poles. Of course. each to his own. But I would say that the main reason you would need poles on the CF is if you are carrying too much weight in your packpack.
Loose the weight = loose the poles.
Dear Camino Friends,
I will start my first Camino on September and need an advice for buying the correct walking poles.
Are there differences of men and women? The length, handles, weight, etc?
I will appreciate your experiences...
Buen Camino...
I use poles for several reasons - wearing a pack shifts my center of gravity, and poles help with that, they have saved me from falling a couple of times, using poles while on the Camino help keep my arms toned and keep my hands from swelling.Of course many pilgrims do carry them and do not use them to their full potential. In that case the trekking poles are simply unused additional weight to carry.
I had never backpacked before my first Camino three years ago, and had never used poles either. I learned about Pacer Poles here and it sounded like they were pretty "idiot proof" with their ergonomic handles, and indeed that was the case.On my May-June 2017 Camino I used "Pacer Poles" (available from the manufacturer in UK - sorry don't a email or link to web site). I had seen these a couple of times before and (sillily) bagged them. BUT after two or three days on the Camino Frances from St Jean I was totally sold on them.
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