Len Nugent
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2017
Camino Frances Jan 2017
Camino Portuguese Nov 2017
Camino Frances return route Dec 2017
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My understanding is that every place providing accommodation should have available a complaint form which you can complete and mail off.Thanks for your reply Doug, but what are the ways to raise our concerns about bad accommodation in Spain?, we were constantly on the move everyday, there was nothing open in lOS ACROS, who do you complain too??
We just finished our camino in Finisteere at the weekend, & it was a fantastic experince, the only things we found bad on the camino was a small number of dirty/bad albergues, the worst being CASA ALBERDI , in Los Arcos.
This was the only albergue open & after a 30k walk that day we had no other choice, the place is very dirty, with only outside showers, (only one working) , the kitchen was disgusting & not fit fit for human use, it is annoying & frustrating to see unscrupulous people take advantage of pilgrims, especially when they know that there is no other accommodation open in the town.
i would advise any pilgrims to keep away from this one.
Most other albergues we found over the last few weeks were clean , if not cold, & i think the best one that we stayed in was at Fromista, it was a private albergue called Albergue BETANIA, it is run by two fantastic people called Jose & Lourdes, they really appreciate the people staying with them & go that extra mile to make you feel at home , whilst thousands of miles from home.
Hope this helps others
I agree with Joe. The question becomes:Len:
I do not have a problem with this post. This is a forum where people often post both positive and negative opinions about a variety of subjects. This type of information is supportive of Pilgrims currently on the Camino that could be helpful in their daily planning. Many times, I have been asked to supply information on accommodation along a route I am walking.
That said, it might have been more useful, to others, if posted while still on the Camino.
Ultreya,
Joe
Is this a fair review?The issue here is not whether you were treated unfairly. I cannot make any judgement on that. But even if you were, that doesn't give you the right to be unfair in return, which clearly you are being here.
I believe the that Len is being honest and I for one appreciate his honestly and thank him wholeheartedly. He is not being unfair. He is being HONEST !!! give the guy a break . We need honest people who speak honesty in this world. THANKYOU Len .The issue here is not whether you were treated unfairly. I cannot make any judgement on that. But even if you were, that doesn't give you the right to be unfair in return, which clearly you are being here.
Thanks for your reply Doug, but what are the ways to raise our concerns about bad accommodation in Spain?, we were constantly on the move everyday, there was nothing open in lOS ACROS, who do you complain too??
I spoke to the owner of the albergue & explained mine & all the other pilgrims dismay at what we found, all i got back was a shrug of her shoulders, as if to say take it or leave it!
The place has been run down over many years with no investment in any way, not that a bucket of water & soap costs a lot anyway, it is about respect for other human being.
I think it is unfair for the albergue owners, knowing that they are the only place open, to treat people in this way, so i dont think it is unfair to let other pilgrims know about places like this, if i had know about this place before hand i would not have walked so far that day & stayed in the previous village.
Also in my post, i praised another albergue that done things corectly , so is it wrong to comment on a bad establishment & say nothing about a good well run estabishment, i think people have the right to know.
We just finished our camino in Finisteere at the weekend, & it was a fantastic experince, the only things we found bad on the camino was a small number of dirty/bad albergues, the worst being ...
We just finished our camino in Finisteere at the weekend, & it was a fantastic experince, the only things we found bad on the camino was a small number of dirty/bad albergues, the worst being CASA ALBERDI , in Los Arcos.
This was the only albergue open & after a 30k walk that day we had no other choice, the place is very dirty, with only outside showers, (only one working) , the kitchen was disgusting & not fit fit for human use, it is annoying & frustrating to see unscrupulous people take advantage of pilgrims, especially when they know that there is no other accommodation open in the town.
i would advise any pilgrims to keep away from this one.
Most other albergues we found over the last few weeks were clean , if not cold, & i think the best one that we stayed in was at Fromista, it was a private albergue called Albergue BETANIA, it is run by two fantastic people called Jose & Lourdes, they really appreciate the people staying with them & go that extra mile to make you feel at home , whilst thousands of miles from home.
Hope this helps others
Thanks to OP. Sorry did not care for your stay there.
Did you talk with the owners/operators and let them know your feelings?
Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. The OP had an unpleasant experience and shared his opinion, nothing will change this experience.Perhaps its useful to know but then again what can you expect for a few euro and maybe it was a once off , you may have hit it on a bad day ?
Marty, the OP specifically says:
I spoke to the owner of the albergue & explained mine & all the other pilgrims dismay at what we found, all i got back was a shrug of her shoulders, as if to say take it or leave it!
I don't read the OP as unfair. Obviously there was a very poor experience, and I see no reason not to share it for the use of future pilgrims. If there was no complaint form, what could they do? I think there should be some sort of Albergue TripAdvisor forum.The issue here is not whether you were treated unfairly. I cannot make any judgement on that. But even if you were, that doesn't give you the right to be unfair in return, which clearly you are being here.
Oh man. One thousand likes and a few pan-galactic bonus points tooMuch of the Camino is a mirror that reflects back pretty much what it is receiving.
And yet pilgrims love Manjarin, which has far worse conditions. Go figure.
I guess I would ask, mostly rhetorically, how many on this Forum would invest in renovating a building as an albergue, then work sixteen hours a day during the season, stay open in the winter with one or two pilgrims a day, and do it for 10 Euro per bed as Maria has done for a decade? I doubt that there is a lot of capital available for renovations, and pilgrims can be pretty hard on the property and equipment. Albergues are just a notch above a tent, have evolved from donativo/volunteer operated charities, and serve a very seasonal clientele. It is easy for the modern near-tourist pilgrim to expect five-star treatment for their 10 Euro. Since the Spanish business model is not focused on the customer, it is a completely unrealistic expectation. Business owners are very much of the "if you don't like it, leave" variety. It is amplified for customers who they know they will never see again. Local customers in bars and restaurants get the white glove treatment (as that is defined in Spain) because they will be returning (an probably have grown up with the owner). The pilgrim with his two hundred dollar boots and three hundred dollar sleeping bag are not held in terribly high regard, especially if they don't speak Spanish and engage the owner as a human being. Violation of the decades old saw "pilgrims ask, tourists demand" has inured business owners to pushy customers. Had a pilgrim grabbed a broom and swept the floor, grabbed a sponge and cleaned the kitchen, or asked if some amateur plumbing help could restore the hot water, Maria might have had a completely different reaction. Much of the Camino is a mirror that reflects back pretty much what it is receiving.
In the circumstances where the truth of either a positive or negative recommendation can never be adequately tested, I defer to the harm test. The harm done by a negative recommendation being incorrect appears to me to far outweigh any good that might come of it being correct. On the other hand, the harm done by a positive recommendation being incorrect is relatively small compared to the good that might come from it being correct.I agree with Joe. The question becomes:
Can I comment on how an establishment treats me or comment on its accommodations? It has to be fair; that is allowing positive or negative - both sides of the coin. If you don't want negative you should not allow positive either. That would not make sense to me to only have one side (positive) of an evaluation, leaving out a negative if it is substantial.
I have had also places who were disguisting and overpaid. ...there are some owner who realy take the money from the pelgrims and give no service, no clean rooms..why? The day after the are gone. It's good when somenone give a warning about that sort of owners.I don't mind. He was there..he now what the situation was...and he informt the others pelgrims so the now what's going on in that albergue. Fine so. No problems. If everyone should do that...the maybe think twice about what the give..or not give to the passing pelgrims. So Len...good job and thank's.The issue here is not whether you were treated unfairly. I cannot make any judgement on that. But even if you were, that doesn't give you the right to be unfair in return, which clearly you are being here.
I'd pay an extra five bucks not to. Just let me shower up, do laundry, get a cold one and then siesta. Not necessarily in that order, of course.I am so old that I remember staying in youth hostels throughout Norway and the rest of Europe when I was young meant, that you had to do some cleaning service for a couple of hours before leaving in the morning.
Starting my alberguecarriere 40 years later I was surprised that nothing was expected from you. And I think I payed less there than in youth hostels 40 years ago.
Perhaps some duties should be layed upon us. We have time enough after queueing up for the albergue to open up in midday.
i think the best one that we stayed in was at Fromista, it was a private albergue called Albergue BETANIA, it is run by two fantastic people called Jose & Lourdes, they really appreciate the people staying with them & go that extra mile to make you feel at home , whilst thousands of miles from home.
Hope this helps others
There are ways in Spain to raise your concerns about accommodation providers, and I don't think this is one of them. It is intrinsically unfair to make these criticisms in a way in which the owners or operators have no realistic way to respond. Further, if you haven't raised your concerns already, it is pretty unfair that you haven't given whoever is running it a chance to address your concerns.
Yeah, I remember those days in hostels. The sense of responsibility/giving back was great, but here it is less realistic to ask of many who arrive already exhausted from their day, physically. If prices have to go up a bit to hire more help, that's understandable.I'd pay an extra five bucks not to. Just let me shower up, do laundry, get a cold one and then siesta. Not necessarily in that order, of course.
From what I saw on multiple Caminos, the albergues don't get terribly dirty. The sleeping areas overall look the same in the morning after everyone leaves. The blankets, if any get folded up, the disposable sheets and pillowcases removed and thrown in bins. No doubt the place needs a sweep down and a mop across the floor. Now the bathrooms no doubt are the one spot that can get nasty, but even then overall I never saw pilgrim's really trash them. If the albergue has a kitchen, everyone who uses it cleans up after themselves. At least that's what I saw.Yeah, I remember those days in hostels. The sense of responsibility/giving back was great, but here it is less realistic to ask of many who arrive already exhausted from their day, physically. If prices have to go up a bit to hire more help, that's understandable.
I disagree. Len did not report any facts. He shared two opinions, one about the property and the other about the owners. One might have been as a result of his observations, but the other one can only be regarded as highly speculative and interpretive, because it was about something he could not know. Both opinions and his recommendation are potentially very damaging to the albergue and the people he has disparaged, and in circumstances where they are unlikely to be able to respond.Len merely reported facts, relative to other better kept albergues along the Way.
I disagree. Len did not report any facts. He shared two opinions, one about the property and the other about the owners. One might have been as a result of his observations, but the other one can only be regarded as highly speculative and interpretive, because it was about something he could not know. Both opinions and his recommendation are potentially very damaging to the albergue and the people he has disparaged, and in circumstances where they are unlikely to be able to respond.
I find it interesting that many who have posted appear so self interested that they are prepared to defend the intrinsic unfairness of this.
You are correct, I neglected to note that there was just one fact with two opinions, one highly speculative and one recommendation. You have chosen to avoid the issue of whether or not is fair.Len reported that only one shower was working and that the shower was outside (fact).
You are correct, I neglected to note that there was just one fact with two opinions, one highly speculative and one recommendation. You have chosen to avoid the issue of whether or not is fair.
We just finished our camino in Finisteere at the weekend, & it was a fantastic ex and I actuperince, the only things we found bad on the camino was a small number of dirty/bad albergues, the worst being CASA ALBERDI , in Los Arcos.
This was the only albergue open & after a 30k walk that day we had no other choice, the place is very dirty, with only outside showers, (only one working) , the kitchen was disgusting & not fit fit for human use, it is annoying & frustrating to see unscrupulous people take advantage of pilgrims, especially when they know that there is no other accommodation open in the town.
i would advise any pilgrims to keep away from this one.
Most other albergues we found over the last few weeks were clean , if not cold, & i think the best one that we stayed in was at Fromista, it was a private albergue called Albergue BETANIA, it is run by two fantastic people called Jose & Lourdes, they really appreciate the people staying with them & go that extra mile to make you feel at home , whilst thousands of miles from home.
Hope this helps others
The purpose of the forum is to share information with each other. Whether a complaint about the albergue is addressed through formal means is completely irrelevant.
I can take the information provided here and use it or not. If I happen to be at that albergue I can see if the OP's assessment was or is still correct and decide to stay there or not.
This is one person's opinion and I take it as that.
We just finished our camino in Finisteere at the weekend, & it was a fantastic experince, the only things we found bad on the camino was a small number of dirty/bad albergues, the worst being CASA ALBERDI , in Los Arcos.
This was the only albergue open & after a 30k walk that day we had no other choice, the place is very dirty, with only outside showers, (only one working) , the kitchen was disgusting & not fit fit for human use, it is annoying & frustrating to see unscrupulous people take advantage of pilgrims, especially when they know that there is no other accommodation open in the town.
i would advise any pilgrims to keep away from this one.
Most other albergues we found over the last few weeks were clean , if not cold, & i think the best one that we stayed in was at Fromista, it was a private albergue called Albergue BETANIA, it is run by two fantastic people called Jose & Lourdes, they really appreciate the people staying with them & go that extra mile to make you feel at home , whilst thousands of miles from home.
Hope this helps others[/QU
Thanks for your reply Doug, but what are the ways to raise our concerns about bad accommodation in Spain?, we were constantly on the move everyday, there was nothing open in lOS ACROS, who do you complain too??
I spoke to the owner of the albergue & explained mine & all the other pilgrims dismay at what we found, all i got back was a shrug of her shoulders, as if to say take it or leave it!
The place has been run down over many years with no investment in any way, not that a bucket of water & soap costs a lot anyway, it is about respect for other human being.
I think it is unfair for the albergue owners, knowing that they are the only place open, to treat people in this way, so i dont think it is unfair to let other pilgrims know about places like this, if i had know about this place before hand i would not have walked so far that day & stayed in the previous village.
Also in my post, i praised another albergue that done things corectly , so is it wrong to comment on a bad establishment & say nothing about a good well run estabishment, i think people have the right to know.
Len made his posts, then has not been back to see comments.Hi Len,
Len, thank you for posting this. I have, perhaps mistakenly, taken the forum as an exchange of information between we pilgrims, good, bad or indifferent. If we can't give each other a heads up on these types of things what's the point of the forum?
And yet pilgrims love Manjarin, which has far worse conditions. Go figure.
I guess I would ask, mostly rhetorically, how many on this Forum would invest in renovating a building as an albergue, then work sixteen hours a day during the season, stay open in the winter with one or two pilgrims a day, and do it for 10 Euro per bed as Maria has done for a decade? I doubt that there is a lot of capital available for renovations, and pilgrims can be pretty hard on the property and equipment. Albergues are just a notch above a tent, have evolved from donativo/volunteer operated charities, and serve a very seasonal clientele. It is easy for the modern near-tourist pilgrim to expect five-star treatment for their 10 Euro. Since the Spanish business model is not focused on the customer, it is a completely unrealistic expectation. Business owners are very much of the "if you don't like it, leave" variety. It is amplified for customers who they know they will never see again. Local customers in bars and restaurants get the white glove treatment (as that is defined in Spain) because they will be returning (an probably have grown up with the owner). The pilgrim with his two hundred dollar boots and three hundred dollar sleeping bag are not held in terribly high regard, especially if they don't speak Spanish and engage the owner as a human being. Violation of the decades old saw "pilgrims thank, tourists demand" has inured business owners to pushy customers. Had a pilgrim grabbed a broom and swept the floor, grabbed a sponge and cleaned the kitchen, or asked if some amateur plumbing help could restore the hot water, Maria might have had a completely different reaction. Much of the Camino is a mirror that reflects back pretty much what it is receiving.
Information is not a problem, but interpretation . . . .
Why should it be not fair to post a negative comment about accommodation on this forum, but absolutely what is expected on travel forums such as Tripadvisor or Booking.com? This is, essentially, a travel forum as we are all on a journey to Santiago; it's just that it covers more aspects of the journey.
I agreeLen, thank you for posting this. I have, perhaps mistakenly, taken the forum as an exchange of information between we pilgrims, good, bad or indifferent. If we can't give each other a heads up on these types of things what's the point of the forum?
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Things on the Camino just haven't been the same since the movie "The Way" came out. I still recall sitting in the "square" in Hontanas with other Pilgrims laughing at the screaming couple who demanded a taxi to take them somewhere where there were better accommodations. What some don't realize is that half of the charm of the Camino is that some of the albergues are a bit . . . . quirky. Too bad the "demanding tourists" can't appreciate that.
There are tour companies that will ensure that you stay in a nice room every night. I used one in April 2015 on a Camino with a group of friends that demanded to have a certain level of accommodation. I can highly recommend this type of a Camino for those who demand a certain standard for every place that they stay.
Len, I actually appreciate the heads up on this place. Thank you.Doug, the place did not even have hot running water, never mind a complaint form!
It was unfit for animals, although there where plenty of cats running around the dormitory, over sleeping bags , scavenging for food., thats what i call unfair.
I will leave it at that, people can make up their own minds, i just hope that you are not caught out & end up having to spend a night there
I disagree. Len did not report any facts. He shared two opinions, one about the property and the other about the owners. One might have been as a result of his observations, but the other one can only be regarded as highly speculative and interpretive, because it was about something he could not know. Both opinions and his recommendation are potentially very damaging to the albergue and the people he has disparaged, and in circumstances where they are unlikely to be able to respond.
I find it interesting that many who have posted appear so self interested that they are prepared to defend the intrinsic unfairness of this.
I think you are confusing courtesy with something else. I don't see anything "PC" in any of the comments, though I don't have a definition of that term except that it is a vague insult to things one disagrees with.every right in this PC world
This is a complete misconstruction of my concern about the post. The truth or otherwise of the comments about the albergue might be tested by anyone. That is not my point. The remarks about the motivations of the owner are at best speculative and extremely disparaging of the owner, and perhaps that speculation might best have been avoided. Those are not my concerns.The only way you can say he is wrong Doug is to go and stay there with an open mind and compare this abode with Ventosa or similar $$
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