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Surely cyclists also have a right to the path?You want me to step aside. Ring a bell. Or I KSO. keep straight on
Surely cyclists also have a right to the path?
My response was tongue and cheak to Jerbear who posted earlier today that because he pays the same for a bed in an albergue as others, he is entitled to get up early waking everyone else in the process.Me feeling is that cyclists have a right to the path, as do people walking on it.
My apologies if I somehow missed the (oblique) reference to your reply to a post somewhere entirely unrelated to this thread.My response was tongue and cheak to Jerbear who posted earlier today that because he pays the same for a bed in an albergue as others, he is entitled to get up early waking everyone else in the process.
My response was tongue and cheak to Jerbear who posted earlier today that because he pays the same for a bed in an albergue as others, he is entitled to get up early waking everyone else in the process.
This has been a pet peeve of mine on all three of my Caminos. I kind of wander a little as I walk on the trails and there have been numerous times where I have almost been hit by quick flying rude bicyclists who give no warning whatsoever. They seem to assume that I walk in a very straight line and whizz by unannounced. It is very unsettling to me as just one step slightly right or left would put me in harms way. My estimation is that roughly 65-70% of the bikeagrinos I've encountered have no regard for the walkers and do not even try to reduce their speed when approaching.There were quite a number of bicyclists on the Camino while I was there in May. When the bicyclist used a bell to warn the walkers, it was very helpful. Some type of audio clue is necessary so that walkers can move over to the side to allow bikers to get through. Often times, it happens very quickly. In the U.S., when bikers want to pass, they say, "On your left." Is there something that can be used on the Camino so that walkers can be warned about single bikers or groups of bikers that are approaching? It would be safer for everyone.
Exactly! Well stated.The lack of a warning from most cyclists is puzzling, because if they do run in to you they are likely to go down hard as well. You would think self preservation would be a priority for them. A lot of cycling clubs I noticed this year which treat many sections like off road race tracks and walking pilgrims as pylons to get around.
I totally agree...Amen, amen and amen!Me feeling is that cyclists have a right to the path, as do people walking on it.
HOWEVER, I don't think that cyclists have an automatic right to the path which is over and above that of the people on foot. My own experience is that people walking tend not to complain about cyclists until they either get hit by one or have a very close call. The idea that those on foot should automatically "get out of the way" of cyclists (which is what I have been told on more than one occasion by somebody attempting to hurtle past me very quickly on too narrow a portion of track) seems misplaced.
If all those on the camino treated each other with an equal amount of respect, regardless whether on foot, bike or four-legged transport, I doubt that this theme would come up nearly as often as it does. Maybe I am biased, as I am not a cyclist, but there certainly does appear to be a sense of entitlement exhibited by some of those who do the camino on two wheels, that those on foot are less important that those on a bike (and hence should either make way or be pushed out of the way). By contrast, I've never been shoved out of the way or knocked of balance by either another pilgrim on foot or by one on horseback.
My view is by no means intended to imply that those on bikes should not be on the camino. Rather, that if one chooses to make the camino journey on a bike, then expect that the path ahead will have 8-10 times as many walkers on it than cyclists, and that this will mean that you may not be able to safely travel at the speeds you might otherwise want to. There are several people on the forum who travel by bike - recently one seemingly very courteous cyclist commented that it was simply too difficult to travel on the "official" camino path, for various reasons, and had elected to take the roads instead (which by all accounts are not too heavily trafficked, with the extensive new network of autovias that take the majority of motorised traffic off the smaller roads, which are now pretty good for cyclists).
If you do choose to cycle on the same path as pilgrims on foot, using a bell to announce your presence would seem a courteous thing to do, rather than approaching at speed, unannounced and giving a shove, which unfortunately on some occasions seems the only other solution considered. Or just be prepared to slow down, make conversation, and relax... I for one am happy to step aside, if the track allows space for this, and if I have enough time to do so before a cyclist is upon me. The use of a bell would allow this to happen more easily.
Alternatively, I understand that Spain (and Europe) has a good selection of trails and roads perfect for cycling, and much less encumbered by foot traffic.
As somebody has already pointed out, however, on this forum I am likely preaching to the choir...
Surely cyclists also have a right to the path?
My response was to Jerbear who says he has the right to wake a full albergue in the wee hours of the morning because he pays the same amount as the others.
A dash of common sense and courtesy would be the answer. It's a walking track, and in May we too were frightened many times by bikes speeding past us. It is dangerous to say the least, as walkers often change direction without thinking. Very few actually used and form of warning. They need to think of others, not just their fellow riders and how quickly they can do their distancesThere were quite a number of bicyclists on the Camino while I was there in May. When the bicyclist used a bell to warn the walkers, it was very helpful. Some type of audio clue is necessary so that walkers can move over to the side to allow bikers to get through. Often times, it happens very quickly. In the U.S., when bikers want to pass, they say, "On your left." Is there something that can be used on the Camino so that walkers can be warned about single bikers or groups of bikers that are approaching? It would be safer for everyone.
"I noticed there is no bell on your bike. Please, as a gift from me, here is a bell so you may travel safely."
A different perspective..
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/only-used-my-bell-once.48828/
....In the U.S., when bikers want to pass, they say, "On your left." Is there something that can be used on the Camino....
I am a cyclist myself who recently finished my walking Camino. I was amazed at the lack of warnings provided by cyclists on the Camino. Most announced Buen Camino as they were passing. which was a bit late. Unfortunately, in the US, there are a lot of "elite' cyclists (at least in their own minds) who have no interest in anything other than their times. They have no regard for stop signs, red lights or other cyclists and unfirtunately, I think most cyclists on the Camino fall into the same category. Apologies to those few of you who offered advance warning to walkers.There were quite a number of bicyclists on the Camino while I was there in May. When the bicyclist used a bell to warn the walkers, it was very helpful. Some type of audio clue is necessary so that walkers can move over to the side to allow bikers to get through. Often times, it happens very quickly. In the U.S., when bikers want to pass, they say, "On your left." Is there something that can be used on the Camino so that walkers can be warned about single bikers or groups of bikers that are approaching? It would be safer for everyone.
Yes they do. Follow me! Lol. When I walk upon a walker I wait for a wide stretch to pass. BCSurely cyclists also have a right to the path?
There certainly needs to be greater thought given by cyclists. It would be unusual in any country for cyclists to travel fast on a footpath and expect any walkers to jump out of the way with no warning. This "profile" is exactly what happened to me on several occasions during May. How ever, many cyclists were also very considerate.There were quite a number of bicyclists on the Camino while I was there in May. When the bicyclist used a bell to warn the walkers, it was very helpful. Some type of audio clue is necessary so that walkers can move over to the side to allow bikers to get through. Often times, it happens very quickly. In the U.S., when bikers want to pass, they say, "On your left." Is there something that can be used on the Camino so that walkers can be warned about single bikers or groups of bikers that are approaching? It would be safer for everyone.
There was a court case in the UK in the early 1900's that will be well known to any lawyer. A person was knocked off their bike by a vehicle passing to close, because the cyclist "wobbled". The Judge ruled that a cyclist was entitled to wobble. It's only a short step for the same to be true for walkers. I say, continue to wobble!T
This has been a pet peeve of mine on all three of my Caminos. I kind of wander a little as I walk on the trails and there have been numerous times where I have almost been hit by quick flying rude bicyclists who give no warning whatsoever. They seem to assume that I walk in a very straight line and whizz by unannounced. It is very unsettling to me as just one step slightly right or left would put me in harms way. My estimation is that roughly 65-70% of the bikeagrinos I've encountered have no regard for the walkers and do not even try to reduce their speed when approaching.
How about "Sal de mi camino o te golpearé" . . . a bit wordy perhaps?There were quite a number of bicyclists on the Camino while I was there in May. When the bicyclist used a bell to warn the walkers, it was very helpful. Some type of audio clue is necessary so that walkers can move over to the side to allow bikers to get through. Often times, it happens very quickly. In the U.S., when bikers want to pass, they say, "On your left." Is there something that can be used on the Camino so that walkers can be warned about single bikers or groups of bikers that are approaching? It would be safer for everyone.
I find it quicker just to push them aside - how dare they be walking slowly on MY caminoYes they do. Follow me! Lol. When I walk upon a walker I wait for a wide stretch to pass. BC
Yes they have, when they act in a normal way.Surely cyclists also have a right to the path?
Hmmmm I will be on guard. ToucheI find it quicker just to push them aside - how dare they be walking slowly on MY camino
In truth I find it hard to pass a coffee stop let alone another pilgrimHmmmm I will be on guard. Touche
Lol
Excuse me: what's a 'courteous cycling pilgrim'?Courteous cycling pilgrims already practice these procedures.
Excuse me: what's a 'courteous cycling pilgrim'?
I haven't cycled a camino , mainly for a couple of reasons, (I love cycling), you would be less likely to have the pilgrim experience you get when walking, and you have a bicycle to worry about , punctures, ! mechanicals etc,The problem with ringing a bell is it can be interpreted in two contradictory ways: either "I'm coming by on your side, keep straight" or "you're in the way, please move!". Get it wrong and you might just step into their oncoming trajectory.
I agree some sort of common language or etiquette here would be helpful.
True, twice I almost walked quicker than cyclists on the Frances and on to Muxia, this year I never saw a single cyclist on the Primitivo in April, so I guess that's the way to go if you have an aversion to cyclists!.My 2c's. If you can't stop in time you are going to fast. Santiago is going nowhere so pushing past walkers is pointless as well as dangerous for all concerned.
They are a most inconsiderate lot indeedExcuse me: what's a 'courteous cycling pilgrim'?
I did my first and probably last Camino this year (March 23 to May 3). I loved it, with the single exception of the cyclists. They approach from behind (usually). They come at speed and, especially in the wet, when you have your poncho hood on, there's no way you hear them without a constant bell ring. Throughout my Camino less than 10% of cyclists gave any warning. Those that did just shouted 'Buen Caminoooo' or 'Aghhhhhh' as they were about to pass you. I found it constantly threatening, because carrying a backpack, if you turn to see where, or how many they are, you run the risk of them crashing into your pack. Also, you have no idea how many there are in a group and, usually, only the first guy shouted (mostly guys, it must be said)
Some of my reaction was created the 2nd or third day when I complained aloud and was told to 'get out of the way'. We were passed by maybe 8 cyclists on that occasion. The path was narrow and they came towards us at speed, but from around a corner.
Another complication is the incline. Downhill cyclists don't like having to slow down. They lose momentum and the adrenaline rush has nowhere to go! Downhill walkers, on the other hand, tend to go even more slowly than normal as, we are constantly reminded, most walking injuries happen on the downhill stretches.
I better stop. I'm feeling the stress again.
ALL WALKERS should be required to throw their hands and poles out to the sides and block the path a few times. THEN those people might get the message. I really wanted to.... oooh just that thought feels good.
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