Steve Hackman
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
Muxia & Fisterra (2015)
Via Francigena (2018)
Camino Portuguese (2020)
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Steve ,I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.
Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak
Hi Steve, can i ask which edition did you get? 2014 or 2015? Thanks.I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.
Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak
1oth edition 2014Hi Steve, can i ask which edition did you get? 2014 or 2015? Thanks.
Thanks, Steve.1oth edition 2014
Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)
Yep! That's the one!I think the one Allykat means is that one: https://www.conrad-stein-verlag.de/...=978-3-86686-424-5&edition=17&t=1420619870991 The other German guide (Rother) also has prescribed stages, SY
I might agree with that, regarding food. I walked CF with 6th edition in 2011 and found almost no relevant info on food options in JB. Otherwise it was great guide-book but I also did not follow his stages.Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)
The Spanish guide is the same way. We used that primarily (we had a Brierly but stopped looking at it for anything very often very quickly)Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)
Not only is this a beautiful response, but I love that it brings (back) up the CSJ guide. A remarkable source that too often is left out of these discussions. You remain my ultimate example of a peregrino.Everyone's Camino is, of course, different. Personally during 10 CF's since 2004 I have only used three sources; the current CSJ guide, the current paper sheet distributed at the municipal albergue in SJPdP and 50 year old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. In more than 450 cummulative days walking I have always found a bunk for the night and never gone to sleep hungry even in winter as well as seeing remarkable sights and sites during each day. All that is needed is curiosity and tenacity.
where do I acquire the current CSJ guide?
Ms. Yates, you are extraordinary! I've jumped on and ordered it already. I will use this book and the BrierlyHere http://www.csj.org.uk/product/camino-frances/
Buen Camino! SY
50 years old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. .
If the basic maps and descriptions of towns is all you think you'll need, there's a stripped-down version of the Brierly guidebook that is just the maps - 112 pages versus 288 for the full version. Less to carry with you.The Brierley guidebook does its job well and is a good choice. Can't say I paid much attention to the mystical, philosophical ramblings in it, but the maps were good as were the short descriptions of the towns.
Everyone's Camino is, of course, different. Personally during 10 CF's since 2004 I have only used three sources; the current CSJ guide, the current paper sheet distributed at the municipal albergue in SJPdP and 50 years old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. In more than 450 cumulative days walking I have always found a bunk for the night and never gone to sleep hungry even in winter as well as seeing remarkable sights and sites during each day. All that is needed is curiosity and tenacity.
Thank you for the reference. I will look into it tonight.I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky are very fragmented and written in my own shorthand code. However I suggest you scan the ebook version available on Amazon of The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. It is most useful scholarly work.
MM
Where did you attend school to hear Meyer Schapiro and Panofsky?I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky are very fragmented and written in my own shorthand code. However I suggest you scan the ebook version available on Amazon of The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. It is most useful scholarly work.
MM
My sentiments exactly "its a guide" - take the information and apply it to your needs. In fact if you want to "go off camino" and see all the little "extras" then I doubt you can follow Brierley's Stages. Maybe the real philosophy of the camino should be "I departed SJPP _ or wherever - and start walking, eventually I will arrive at SDC the days it takes do not matter". Buen Camino!!There are a lot of advantages NOT to follow the ¨Brierley Stages¨
The majority of pilgrims that has this guide, and others that have the same stages, follow them, leading to overcrowding in same places/albergues.
As you can see, I see any guide book as a guideline, but not as something I have to follow literally. My suggestion (and what I do): Try to stay away from the 'classical' stopping points. Walk every day as far as you feel comfortable with. When having done most of your days walk, have a look how far it is to the next albergue and ask your feet 'shall we go on or stay here?'
Buen Camino! SY
My graduate degrees in art history and architecture are from Columbia University. However much of the NYC art world also attended their lectures. Actuaĺly it was in Schapiro's course on medieval manuscripts that I learned of the camino; within the hour I was smitten! Forty years later I was finally able to first walk the route and now fifty years later I still am.Where did you attend school to hear Meyer Schapiro and Panofsky?
Thanks so much for your reply!! I have an undergraduate degree in art history from the University of Michigan. I would have loved hearing Schapiro lecture. I learned about the camino from a series of truly delightful articles written for Gourmet magazine by an American psychiatrist, Herb McGrew, in the early 1990s. It looks like my 2015 Le Puy camino is cancelled, and I am heartbroken. Alas....back to the drawing board.My graduate degrees in art history and architecture are from Columbia University. However much of the NYC art world also attended their lectures. Actuaĺly it was in Schapiro's course on medieval manuscripts that I learned of the camino; within the hour I was smitten! Forty years later I was finally able to first walk the route and now fifty years later I still am.
MM
Although we had the Brierley guide, we didn't follow his stages. However, it was nice to know in advance how long it would be until the next chance to get a coffee or a sandwich, so that we could plan ahead. We also had the Miam Miam Dodo (French guide), which occasionally listed a stop that was not listed in the Brierley guide. (El Horno, in Irotz, comes to mind). It also had more information about non-albergue lodging.I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.
Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak
I just ordered the CSJ guide.
... After that it is a piece of cake for the next 700km. (Unless you happen to run out of Euros.)
I also just bought the book Steve, for my upcoming Camino in April/May. But I think I will just use it to guide me to each town so I don't get lost - and experience the cafes and restaurants myself. That way my walk won't be 'staged' as I'd be going the right way, but I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation and eating side of things. Good luck.I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.
Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak
Hi Chris, my son and I will also be doing April / May. We will set out from SJPdP on April 3.I also just bought the book Steve, for my upcoming Camino in April/May. But I think I will just use it to guide me to each town so I don't get lost - and experience the cafes and restaurants myself. That way my walk won't be 'staged' as I'd be going the right way, but I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation and eating side of things. Good luck.
You will discover that in the small places, you may have a choice of only one or two dining places.experience the cafes and restaurants myself
The same for beds. The really small place have a choice of "one".I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation
I also just bought the book Steve, for my upcoming Camino in April/May. But I think I will just use it to guide me to each town so I don't get lost - and experience the cafes and restaurants myself. That way my walk won't be 'staged' as I'd be going the right way, but I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation and eating side of things. Good luck.
I carried both the Brierly Guide and the Michelin Guide and referred to both. What was interesting to me is that sometimes the Michelin Guide follows one of the alternate routes provided by Brierly. I used both as references but did not follow either specifically. One favorite route took me by a artist who had sculptures galore and another to the Samos Monastery. Whatever you do, don't feel that you have to cover the stages suggested in Brierly. As we say on the Appalachian Trail, "hike your own hike."I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.
Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak
Hey Steve,Hi Chris, my son and I will also be doing April / May. We will set out from SJPdP on April 3.
I started around May 22 and was strongly advised by the SJPdP pilgrim office to not go on the Nap because the weather had made it extremely treacherous. Great advice, since some who ignored that advice paid a very steep price. If you go on the ValCarlos, don't be disappointed - it has some magnificent views and challenges also.Hey Steve,
We have decided to start around May 10, in order to give us a better chance at doing the Napoleon way. May see you if you are walking slowly
I also bought this guide and am glad to see you found it helpful. My husband and I will be taking it with us on our Camino in August-October this year. I also bought S. Yates' book "Pilgrim Tips & Packing List" and it has some terrific pointers to help the new pilgrims (like my husband and me!) know what to take and what to leave behind.I borrowed the Brierly book from the library about ten times before our Camino. Just before leaving home I bought "Hiking the Camino De Santiago by Anna Dintamin and David Landis. It does weigh a little more than Brierly but very useful info. Didn't do their stages as I walk too slow but rather used it as a guide as to what is coming up and to make sure there was some type of accommodation in the next few kilometers should we tire. A few times we did end up in the same town as a stage end of either Brierly or this guide but usually just stopped when tired or found an interesting place. I would highly recommend the Dintamin/Landis guide. It gave the right amount of town history, accommodations and food info. The maps were excellent. Also gave info on which towns have ATM's. We ran out of money once and from then on referred to the guide to "stock up" on cash. Not all villages have ATM's and sometimes you can walk a whole day without coming across one. Great Guide!!
. . . Brierley . . . but the maps were good . . .
As for the markings I'm sure you don't need any guide book on Frances
Well, for the average pilgrim walking the CF who is not well versed or trained in orienteering, cartography or have had land navigation training (or even carry a compass with them on the CF) I would say drawings, rather than maps suffice. You can actually walk it without maps of any kind, and just follow the arrows. A lot of people do that, but it's nice to have a small book that gives a general overview.I would say they're drawings and not maps. I understand his reasoning, but the varying compass orientation bothers me, as well as the varying scale (even within each page ;-) to meet his needs. I wish he would identify the roads that cross the Camino vs. all those anonymous grey lines. I'm sure that I would get used to it if walking from it for several days, but my initial reaction is one of visual confusion and overload - some stages being worse than others. Vs. say a Michelin map, which I feel provides an excellent graphical hierarchy of importance, I have a very hard time making visual sense of what is presented to me by Brierley. It may be a left brain vs. right brain kind of thing.
Here is a page from the Jakobs-Radweg German cycling guide. While I won't pretend that it provides all of the varying info that Brierley does, for my tastes the information is much more clearly presented, so I can take it all in with a very quick glance - perhaps explained by the difference of cycling vs. walking pace. Best of all - it is in fact a real map, and to 1:75,000 scale at that. I also find the maps in the Dintaman-Landis guide unsatisfactory - but then I'm fussy about my maps ;-)
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Thank you for the reference. I will look into it tonight.
. . . history and explanations of the art and architecture we are discovering when on the Camino is what I find lacks most from the current guides.
. . . who is not well versed or trained in orienteering, cartography or have had land navigation training (or even carry a compass with them on the CF)
I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky . . .
Couldn't agree more, Charles! But would like to add that my comment was purely about finding (orientating) and walking the route. If someone wants to research the route (as I did last year for Madrid & Invierno, and this year for Levante & Sanabres, where there is much less info) in advance and also take some kind of guide that is another topic.I'm not a walker, but have to disagree with that on the basis of quite recent investigation of the river route into Burgos. A few folks on this forum are quite fond of saying "just follow the arrows", but some of us like to research the various options in advance so we know what they are, and can take advantage of them. I'm sure that one can have a fine Camino by just following the arrows, but I should think that if you're really interested in the history, the culture, and the architecture, then you need to make some effort before you go to learn just what is out there, and decide where you want to go and what you want to see. Cycling certainly makes it much easier to take side trips, such as to San Millan de la Cogolla. However, if I was walking I would still want to know what the alternate routes were, so I could make a conscious decision instead of just following the crowd. Back to Burgos, it turns out that a fair number of people knew about the more pleasant river entry, but couldn't find it due to lack of arrows, and a guide book - particularly Hiking The Camino De Santiago would have greatly helped.
Regarding entry into Burgos I found it - but through Villafria instead of CastanaresI was using Brierley and missed the left turn before airport. I have very good sense of orientation and I'm also very good at noticing different signs, details etc. (professional deformation) but with massive hangover obviously I wasn't able to perform as usually In the end it came out as a right choice to find shelter during the worst half an hour storm I've encountered in years. I came to Burgos center tired but dry. Next time I'll surely look out for the leftleft option by the river
Thanks CH, I've already seen all about it in Entry to Burgos thread. Nice maps you're doing (have also seen the one detouring Villamayor).KinkyOne - to paraphrase Socrates, "The unexamined Camino is not worth walking".
I don't have JB handy, but Dintaman-Landis provide an excellent detailed paragraph on the river route. That left by the airport is just the first of two critical junctions, and there is a sign there arrowed for Castanares, but the big yellow arrow points to Villafria - which is undoubtedly why most people go that way. The more tricky location is at N-120 in Castanares, as apparently there are arrows turning right with it, but you need to cross over and go straight (initially) for the river route. If you're planning a big date with vino tinto, you might make some notes for yourself on the next day's route. ;-)
Nice maps you're doing (have also seen the one detouring Villamayor).
And you don't have to tell me or anyone else how to do it
Socrates was (via you)
Yes, I noticed that too. Some changes include the stage from Roncesvalles now ending at Zubiri (and a much less effusive description of the delights of Larrasoaña!) , and the following stage ending at Pamplona instead of Cizur Menor. There are others too - I think one ends in Bercianos instead of El Burgo Ranero. I have also noticed more town plans for smaller places, more marking of pharmacies and supermarkets on the town plans, and a few corrections to roads weirdly misaligned in earlier editions. Also the road alternatives in several places are now marked with the yellow "main route" dots, rather than the discouraging grey which as has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, can do a disservice to towns on those routes. There's also more info on some of the possible detours, including a full two pages on the route to the monasteries at San Millán. I like the smaller format of the new edition - it's very slightly lighter too.Received my new 2015 Brierley CF book. It seems to be a bit smaller than previous editions, about 2 centimeters shorter from top to bottom. Also, it appears that some of his stages have changed. Not sure since I lost my previous edition.
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