- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2012
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Hopefully of interest!I love trains. I got as far as Tsipaw in Myanmar, from Poitiers via Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Mongolia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand. Some river boats and a couple of buses were also involved, many youth hostels, and some small hotels and a lot of street food at strange hours of the day. I discovered the joys of free entry to some otherwise expensive cultural venues simply by being over sixty, as well as some very cheap train fares . 21 days including several side trips and stop overs before visiting the grand babies in Thailand. That was in 2017. For some reason China gave me a two year multiple entry visa so I went back in 2018 to travel on some more trains. Some of them averaging over 300kph. Others stopping every hour for ten hours to go not very far. Happy days.
Getting back to Spain, if you aren't in a hurry there is a narrow gauge train all the way along the coast from A Coruña to the French border. Two days and a few changes. Revisit the Norte on your way home. Take your bike on it, no need to put it in a box. Don't forget to buy your over 60 card in Spain if you qualify. Makes fast trains a lot cheaper. Book in advance on your phone to save more money, no need to print the ticket, it's in the app. Unlike Myanmar, where they write them out by hand.
Not everyone and not me. I drive my car 15 miles to the bus for a 1.25 hour ride that commutes to the Chicago airport...it is what it is whether I like it or not.Very true, and a real pity.
So people from the States are stuck needing to take short flights to get to hub airports.
Driving is the norm for us in the Wyoming, but also in many other places. I am able to walk or ride the bus to the gym, work, and some stores, but only because I work for the only University in the State and students/faculty/staff often need transport. I do think about how some of my favorite goods are produced with lots of water and lots of transportation to get to me. I do like a more simple existence which may be why I am drawn to the Camino...Yes of course! It’s really tough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc but when I have visited states like Texas and Florida I wonder how folks manage!!
The desire has to be greater than the inconvenience.Yes of course! It’s really tough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc but when I have visited states like Texas and Florida I wonder how folks manage!!
My view entirely.I got called a “Climate Change Denyer” on here a few months ago but hey, we all need to be someone’s boogaboo.
Anyone wanting to calculate an anything like accurate carbon cost for any given journey by any given means should take into account the carbon cost of the super-computer required to process the calculations.
One common conflation is the Ccost of a flight London to Madrid against a rail journey. Trouble is most of the available calculators will use the same Crow-flies distance for both journeys. Another is that most if not all the publically available calculators apply expended carbon based energy ie consumed fuel as the entire cost base. There is no consideration of for instance Road, Rail or Airport construction and maintenance. No consideration of local energy sourcing and no consideration of individual journey makers consumption of resources other than fuel.
The reason? It’s too bloody difficult.
That’s why I plant trees. And walk to the shops and the pub and for pleasure.
I live about 150 miles south of Chicago. It is impossible to get up to Chicago in time for a meeting or to spend the day and be back home in the evening by either train or bus. If you don’t drive, you can’t do it. I remember when a Spanish friend and his family spent a year in my town. They had assumed they would be able to hop on a train to go to Chicago for the day with no problem — HA.ough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc
I totally agree and even the word "complicated" is putting it mildly. A difficult task for each individual to try to figure out how much we are actually able to, and willing to be inconvenienced for the good of our earth.My view entirely.
It is so complicated and also makes no consideration if the mode of transport you are travelling on is full of passengers or relatively empty.
I do my best and is all I can do. I do what I feel is right allowing that my choices at times are limited and i might have to compromise.
You have my sympathy! We moan in Europe if a train is only every hour, or doesn’t start until 0800 on a Sunday or doesn’t run all night!I totally agree and even the word "complicated" is putting it mildly. A difficult task for each individual to try to figure out how much we are actually able to, and willing to be inconvenienced for the good of our earth.
I've always assumed that sea travel would be more carbon-efficient than flying and for this reason have spent happy hours looking at repositioning cruises, useful results being limited by the fact that no trans-atlantic liners stop in Canada (although Cunard leaves out of Vigo or Barcelona from time to time, landing in NYC or, even more uselessly for me, Miami). The days of CP's Empress of Canada sailing out of Montréal are long gone.We have been considering a repositioning cruise from the US in the future to get to Spain. Don't know if there is really any reduction in fuel use there? We also try to take the train or bus in Spain rather than a taxi or rental. I usually don't use pack transportation either although have for my husband last year at least one day.
Yes, I do think about things like waste, but mainly because I am stingy if the truth be told.
How opportune that a new thread "Relocate to Spain after 65" last evening. The Camino provides what is needed, eh? https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/relocate-to-spain-after-65.77926/This is exactly something I have been tossing about in my mind and heart for a year or more now. I have so many Caminos in my bucket list when I retire and the number of flights I need to take has me re-think how I can reduce the number of flights. One thought is to 'live' in Europe and use the train. Definitely, not able to take a train across the Atlantic.
Ok, I will keep that in mind. I did read a book about a pilgrim who took a freighter and also checked that route.Just researched a variety of carbon calculators on "footprint" per 1000 miles of travel
Worst is travel by ship
Then air travel
Then automobile
Then train
So, a flight from US to Spain has less impact than a ship. Trains and cars don't make that trip and swimming is out of thr question. By accident, I chose the lowest impact transportation, by flying
It takes about thirty days at sea to sail from la Rochelle in France to Salvador de Bahia in Brazil. Probably a bit less from New York to A Coruña. Not much carbon impact there as you would in any case be breathing.Just researched a variety of carbon calculators on "footprint" per 1000 miles of travel
Worst is travel by ship
Then air travel
Then automobile
Then train
So, a flight from US to Spain has less impact than a ship. Trains and cars don't make that trip and swimming is out of thr question. By accident, I chose the lowest impact transportation, by flying
Not reallyooooops politics
As far as I read lately: with the waste heat of the datacenters in Frankfurt/Germany (bank capital of continental europe, biggest single node on this planet) you could heat all private property in town. They are loosing big money by climatizing the datacenters instead of selling the waste heat to use in district heating.data centres have the same carbon footprint as the aviation industry.
I have no other way to get to my starting point.Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.
Good question. I don’t drive, and would now only fly in an emergency, and the Camino is not an emergency. If I can’t afford the costlier alternatives I’ll follow the pilgrim paths closer to home.Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.
Hi BarbaraThose of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.
Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem?
Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations?
Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree
How?It's quite possible that a walk on the Camino for a month or even a few weeks more than offsets any carbon footprint involved in getting to Spain by air.
I would agree that you are absolutely correct, but I would suggest taking a holiday hiking you are being 'greener' than say spending that week, or month or whatever on holiday doing something different ie cruising etc.How?
Hypothetically, if you cause damage by flying, how are you undoing that damage by walking, surely walking just means you aren't adding to the damage ie making it worse? Once the damage is done, the damage is done. Even paying a tax for it doesn't repair it.
Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?Can we do better for our planet absolutely, but we tend to focus on the wrong things and it just falls into a cesspool of virtue signaling madness.
Yes.Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?
Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?
Almost borders on an argument to post all these warnings about behavior we expect from folks that haven't misbehaved yet.It is not politics unless we make it politics… it is almost a yes or no question. Is this something you are thinking of? Yes or no.
Nope.Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?
Or spend a ridiculous amount of money for a week of mediocre food and obsequiousness that borders on harassment from a cruise line. Yeah, I made that mistake, but I won't repeat it. (Plus it probably burned more fossil fuel than a dozen flights.)Now, of course, most non-Spanish Peregrinos simply have no choice but to fly,
True. I may have exhaled a ton of CO₂ in the thousands of kilometers I bicycled or walked since I got rid of the car. But it would have been half a ton if I had stayed home.As a whole it's impossible to be carbon zero or even carbon low on any trip anywhere no matter what one does. Our mere daily existence on earth causes fuel of some kind to be burned, emissions to be released and living creatures to die.
On that point, I have better news. There are many purveyors of portable solutions for avoiding unhealthy water. My favorite is the "Grayl"—refilled three times between Los Arcos and Arróniz from streams and ditches with no ill effect.Anyway, despite being a realist and knowing our planet is in all probability doomed, I still loathe buying bottled water and see it as an unnecessary waste.
If you have a job, I suppose the calendar and clock make the bicycle impractical. I was fortunate to find a house three blocks from work and four from the hospital. Joked that I could get to the E.R. faster than the ambulance could make the round-trip to pick me up. Boss said, with all your biking, you won't need to go.I haven't read most of these longer posts because they will not apply to me. Unfortunately we have very few trains in the US and the same with our bus system. Both are extremely limited on where you can travel and how often they run, thus absolutely nowhere near the options available in Europe. If not living in a larger city a car is definitely necessary.
I’m going to answer the question. Our carbon footprint did concern us. We made a big carbon offset donation to a nonprofit that pays farmers a living wage to care for the rainforest in Indonesia rather than cutting trees down to plan crops. We also took the train as often as possible. It’s not a perfect solution, but it helps a bit.Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.
Since you have quoted me...If one can do a Camino, then one can push or drag a cart to a grocery store. (I pull a trailer behind my bike.)
I hope we can have an impact. I have a 16 yo so I worry about the condition I leave this world for him and his generation, and generations after. It takes little effort on my part to think before I act like booking direct routes to EU and then take a train, walk or bicycle for short distances. I have planted 11 trees on my lot in the past 20 years. We will move to Europe so I can continue to walk more Caminos.A big impact. So yes! And already trying to give a good example myself.
Planting trees is one of the few things mentioned in this entire thread that make an actual difference in the planets health, so good for you, you are doing something worthwhile. We are losing Amazon rain forest at a horrific rate.I hope we can have an impact. I have a 16 yo so I worry about the condition I leave this world for him and his generation, and generations after. It takes little effort on my part to think before I act like booking direct routes to EU and then take a train, walk or bicycle for short distances. I have planted 11 trees on my lot in the past 20 years. We will move to Europe so I can continue to walk more Caminos.
As you live in that beautiful country , can I say that the most beautiful sound you can hear when in the fog and mist on the GR 65 from Le Puy are those cow bells .Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.
Not so long ago , let's say 50 yrs when we got married we stayed in a beautiful old ladies home to save for our own.My husband and I had a conversation this week about what people used before plastics. Makes you think more about reusing things. So many things we discard without much thought, but my grandmother kept every glass jar and plastic container because we "might need it". One thing about the Camino is that you start to think about how many things can have multiple uses and you get by with much less when you must carry it!
If nobody does nothing, nothing will happen. Obviously, if only the 2 -3 hundred thousand people who walk the camino every year change their lifestyle, the total effect will be pretty small. I think the suggestion being made is that everybody should change their lifestyle, including the 2 - 3 hundred thousand who walk the camino every year. That would make a difference.Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?
Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?
Before the grand kids arrive and rip my figures to pieces I don't think our mob have any say in the footprint whatsoever.If nobody does nothing, nothing will happen. Obviously, if only the 2 -3 hundred thousand people who walk the camino every year change their lifestyle, the total effect will be pretty small. I think the suggestion being made is that everybody should change their lifestyle, including the 2 - 3 hundred thousand who walk the camino every year. That would make a difference.
We can always find excuses for doing nothing. I do know that if I reduce my own carbon footprint by, say, 10%, as an Australian that has a lot more impact than an Indian rural peasant or a Chinese factory worker doing the same thing. If we all take individual action that is absolutely no guarantee of success but if we all do nothing, that is an absolute guarantee of failure, as is blaming somebody else for the problems.Before the grand kids arrive and rip my figures to pieces I don't think our mob have any say in the footprint whatsoever.
2.8 BILLION people in 2 very wealthy countries , who will not change their ways , and more than likely can't.
So the 25 million poor Aussies have no hope .
We are under 1% [.89%]
We cannot alter the world or influence it when we have less than 1% of China and Indias population
There are 10,000 stars , according to the science shows , for every grain of sand on earth.
Knowing how much beach we have >>>>>>
I think we might be selling the poor old Earth a bit short .
The floods in The Riverina will not reach in a few days the peak [ record ] of 50 years ago .
We poor old Pilgrims [ 1 : 11, 200 ratio to the above countries only ] should on this joyous day Thank God we are alive and just look after each other and if possible query statements and figures about the coming disaster.
No more , the troubles have arrived and the weight increase will soon commence .
And these same rugrats who worry about the future of mother earth demand we keep digging to upgrade their G5 / 6 or 7 phones [lol]
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