Lydia Gillen
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances 2007/8/9, 2011 , 2012/13/14. C.F 2015
Camino Portugues 2017,2018,2019
volunteering
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
As a German who does speak French and English, I really love to learn languages from native speakers. I find it very stimulating when others use their language(s) just like in their everyday life. I learned a lot of english and french idioms, colloquialisms and slang from fellow pilgrims, so I personally would beg anyone not to avoid it.
I am glad you find idioms so stimulating but I think that many who are less fluent or confident in another language may struggle to follow them. I think that we need to be careful to tailor our language to the skills of those we are communicating with.
the point raised here is, I think, efficient communication.
What does « hello » sound like in « European »?We must also try to pick up some of the languages of the camino even if it's just a greeting in Korean, Arabic, European etc. I feel it makes people feel a little special if we can do that.
Probably something like thisWhat does « hello » sound like in « European »?
Europe is made up of so many languages.What does « hello » sound like in « European »?
On my first camino I walked frequently with an American, a South African and a Dane. We lunched this particular day in Burgos and one conversation topic was how well each of us spoke the English language. Without hesitation, each of the other three voted me as the worst English speaker in the group, which was probably true, but was quite salutary, nonetheless!
in my hometown : word 'salvage' is someone got murdered & not being save or rescue
Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
Those of us who have been to Santiago know how difficult it is for pilgrims to find the pilgrim Office nowadays. Why not spend a little time in and around the northern side of Praza do Obradoiro and show the way to pilgrims who seem to be searching. also if they are on their own coming down past the northern door of the Cathedral and down the steps give them a big smile and say "Congratulations". It can be a bit of an anticlimax to come in on your own.
Buen Camino to all who are planning Caminos.
I have always made an effort to do this, maybe sometimes going overboard. I find myself trying to avoid contractions ("will not" instead of "won't", for example), even though they are such a part and parcel of the English language. Although I speak Spanish, I am not bilingual, and it's very helpful to me when THEY put on the brakes, slow down, and speak clearly. But I realize that it is very hard to change one's speaking style unless you really concentrate on it, and it does feel rather weird and unnatural when you are doing it. But it is very helpful to the non-native speaker. I see I've avoided a bunch of contractions here in my reply as well.Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
Those of us who have been to Santiago know how difficult it is for pilgrims to find the pilgrim Office nowadays. Why not spend a little time in and around the northern side of Praza do Obradoiro and show the way to pilgrims who seem to be searching. also if they are on their own coming down past the northern door of the Cathedral and down the steps give them a big smile and say "Congratulations". It can be a bit of an anticlimax to come in on your own.
Buen Camino to all who are planning Caminos.
Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
Those of us who have been to Santiago know how difficult it is for pilgrims to find the pilgrim Office nowadays. Why not spend a little time in and around the northern side of Praza do Obradoiro and show the way to pilgrims who seem to be searching. also if they are on their own coming down past the northern door of the Cathedral and down the steps give them a big smile and say "Congratulations". It can be a bit of an anticlimax to come in on your own.
Buen Camino to all who are planning Caminos.
a part and parcel of the English language. [...] when THEY put on the brakes [...] I see I've avoided a bunch of contractions here in my reply as well.
This made me smile. Recently I borrowed a car from an international car sharing company headquartered in a country where English is not the first language, but where it is widely spoken. To perform a certain function in their car, the instructions on the dashboard said to "depress the brake." What does that mean, I wondered; one either 'presses the brake' or 'releases the brake.' Later, I looked up 'depress' and learned that it had indeed been used correctly. I was chastened.......But expressions like "to put on the brakes" (we learn "to step on a brake" or "to brake").....
Also there are pilgrims that communicating with you fluently receive the prize to their effort (4000 hours or more of learning English).Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
.
Als ich in Deutschland war, stellte ich immer meine Fragen auf Deutsch, aber die Leute immer antworteten mir auf Englisch!! I am not sure what "a parcel of a language" is supposed to mean. We do have the expression "to be (a) part and parcel of", which means "to be an integral part of."The contractions ain'tthe problem, as they are tought within the first years of English at school, at least here in Germany. But expressions like "is a parcel of a language" (we learn a parcel is either an area of land or a cardboard box) or "to put on the brakes" (we learn "to step on a brake" or "to brake") are of a slightly greater complexity and thus would need an additional second for interpretation. On the one hand, if you want to be understood most easily, you might avoid such expressions - on the other hand it's just that what makes a language interesting and lively.
I have a different view on that. I sometimes feel sorry for native English speakers when in public. I quite enjoy the fact that nobody around me can understand me when I am talking to a friend in Dutch ;-)As native English speakers we are indeed very lucky, as our native language is so widely spoken...
And this! That is a 'disease' in the Netherlands as well. Not very helpful for someone who wants to learn a new language.Als ich in Deutschland war, stellte ich immer meine Fragen auf Deutsch, aber die Leute immer antworteten mir auf Englisch!!
And this! That is a 'disease' in the Netherlands as well. Not very helpful for someone who wants to learn a new language.
In the Netherlands, probably less time would be needed for the same purpose, but anyway some effort is also required, so people who respond in English are (unconsciously) giving value to that effort.
I always take my hat off to dutch people when it comes to languages. Close to the german border, german is spoken by nearly everyone and the more you get into the country, the more you can rely on everyone speaking English.
I'm just going to a jazz club tonight at Enschede (only a 1h drive) and most probably won't have any language issues (I can read dutch, but hardly speak). Films in the Netherlands are often shown with dutch subtitles, but without translation of the spoken original language, so learning other languages is quite normal.
Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
Those of us who have been to Santiago know how difficult it is for pilgrims to find the pilgrim Office nowadays. Why not spend a little time in and around the northern side of Praza do Obradoiro and show the way to pilgrims who seem to be searching. also if they are on their own coming down past the northern door of the Cathedral and down the steps give them a big smile and say "Congratulations". It can be a bit of an anticlimax to come in on your own.
Buen Camino to all who are planning Caminos.
This topic is close to my heart. As an native English, and fluent in French, I am humbled and kind of embarrassed at international conferences and so on to be a member of the "linguistic ruling class". When on the Camino, this is even more noticeable to me. I have been trying hard over the past few years to become "useful" in Spanish, and to a lesser extent in German.Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
Those of us who have been to Santiago know how difficult it is for pilgrims to find the pilgrim Office nowadays. Why not spend a little time in and around the northern side of Praza do Obradoiro and show the way to pilgrims who seem to be searching. also if they are on their own coming down past the northern door of the Cathedral and down the steps give them a big smile and say "Congratulations". It can be a bit of an anticlimax to come in on your own.
Buen Camino to all who are planning Caminos.
Over the years I have been amazed at how pilgrims from all over the world have been willing to converse in English, even when I am the only person present for whom English is a mother tongue.
When with pilgrims who make this effort for our benefit I feel we should make every effort to speak slowly and clearly, use fairly basic English and try to avoid idioms, colloquialisms and slang.
Those of us who have been to Santiago know how difficult it is for pilgrims to find the pilgrim Office nowadays. Why not spend a little time in and around the northern side of Praza do Obradoiro and show the way to pilgrims who seem to be searching. also if they are on their own coming down past the northern door of the Cathedral and down the steps give them a big smile and say "Congratulations". It can be a bit of an anticlimax to come in on your own.
Buen Camino to all who are planning Caminos.
One thing I have taken upon myself to do........is to ask something like "May I speak English please?"
I quite enjoy the fact that nobody around me can understand me when I am talking to a friend in Dutch ;-)
not so sure with 17 million in NL and 6,5 in BE. Plus all the people who have lived there and picked up enough to understand but not to speak. I understand, can't speak Dutch. Learnt this much only because my daughter studied in NL and I was visiting.
English is the new lingua franca like Latin was in the Middle Ages.
For me English is 3rd language and while I have no problems with contractions (at least spoken, there are some difficulties to type them because of the different language settings on the computer), those get covered at school, some other very English constructions go completely against my inner feeling of language. Like there is a word "capable" and opposite meaning "incapable" but "famous" and "infamous" are the same? And then this question or apparently it's a suggestion: "Why don't you do [whatever]?" at first I honestly tried to answer why I don't do [whatever]. Now I know but still feels strange. Sure there are more but those examples came to mind immediately.
not so sure with 17 million in NL and 6,5 in BE. Plus all the people who have lived there and picked up enough to understand but not to speak. I understand, can't speak Dutch. Learnt this much only because my daughter studied in NL and I was visiting.
English is the new lingua franca like Latin was in the Middle Ages.
For me English is 3rd language and while I have no problems with contractions (at least spoken, there are some difficulties to type them because of the different language settings on the computer), those get covered at school, some other very English constructions go completely against my inner feeling of language. Like there is a word "capable" and opposite meaning "incapable" but "famous" and "infamous" are the same? And then this question or apparently it's a suggestion: "Why don't you do [whatever]?" at first I honestly tried to answer why I don't do [whatever]. Now I know but still feels strange. Sure there are more but those examples came to mind immediately.
Thank you! This really does help!
@Aidan21, congratulations. As someone who spent more years than I care to remember in the aviation world I recognised just about every aspect of the attached article. Oh and yes I am virtually mono-linguistic (English). Fortunately good old doctor google (especially Google Chrome) can translate an email from English into most of the major languages. I always include both the English and the translated versions - it might help the reader improve their English as well. CheersJust read the following article and it makes some interesting points especially for those of us who just speak English.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...ch-us-about-workplace-communication-1.3355301
As an American, I totally agree with these explanations.The "Why don't you" question can be taken either way, depending on context.
Simple question: Why don't you take a vacation?
I can't. I have too much work to do.
Suggestion: You look tired. Why don't you take a vacation?
Good idea! I think I will go to Hawaii for a week.
"Infamous" means "famous" or "well known" for very negative reasons. Synonym: notorious.
Jack the Ripper was an infamous murderer in London.
"Flammable" and "inflammable" mean exactly the same thing: catches fire easily.
European , there is no sutch thing as European. There are when I'am correct about 25 languages in Europe .We must also try to pick up some of the languages of the camino even if it's just a greeting in Korean, Arabic, European etc. I feel it makes people feel a little special if we can do that.
European , there is no sutch thing as European. There are when I'am correct about 25 languages in Europe .
Everybody is telling us in Holland that we speak our languages,when we can do it so can you.
And one more thing after Mandarin Chinese is Spanish the most spoken language in the world.
Rest my case .
Waka, if you have 9, you surely have enough savour faire to pass yourself in the other fourteen!You are so correct re European languages, I can only greet in 9 of them, hopefully I won't bump into the other 14 on the VDLP.
KirkieWaka, if you have 9, you surely have enough savour faire to pass yourself in the other fourteen!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?