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That's why it's best to use Spanish expression for pilgrim passport - credencial (we're talking Spain here after all). No messFor anyone confused by the above, the credential that gets stamped along the way is sometimes called the pilgrim passport or shortened to passport. Not to be confused with your national passport. When you check into an albergue you may be asked to display both. The national passport to comply with national lodging laws and the pilgrim passport to be stamped and sometimes checked to see if you are qualified to spend the night there.
This thread deals with different names on these two "passports.'
Hi to all!
I have one basic question about credential. I see I can purchase it in advance. So I fill it with my personal info and that's it? Is there no need for registration in my first office?
Means - if I buy it in advance I can start with my first step immediately after arriving to my starting point?
Davey, many thanks!
I just ordered it
A LOT of credencials go missing. People show up at the office all the time looking for their list credencial.
Many times, we ask them what name is written in the credencial. Too often, the reply is a sheepish “none.” In these cases, we will still look as few credencials are identical. Sometimes we get lucky.
So, immediately on obtaining a new credencial, please complete the inside front cover. If you lose it, start another replacement credencial immediately.
If you cannot get one, use a notebook or other paper to record sellos until you CAN start a formal credencial. Please don’t show up at the counter with a pocket full of bar napkins with dated sellos.... no joke... it’s been tried.
Most folks use their smartphones to take photos on their Caminos. If location services are turned on, each photo you take is “stamped” with the location, date and time. This can provide valuable backup to prove your continuous line of match along your Camino route, in the absence of a full credential. It has saved numerous requests for Compostelas.
Personally, I make a habit of photographing those rectangular white with black letter road signs that tell when I enter and leave a town. They bookmark each town and hamlet in my photos. Once I am all done and sorted at Santiago, I delete these sign photos.
Hope this helps.
Thank you for those useful tips.
Is it suggested to get first stamp on the start, actually before first step? In this case (I'll start in Pamplona), can I get a stamp in any place where I will take my first night. Also on the way - if I decide occasionally to sleep in some private appartment or a hotel - do they also have stamps (probably not)?
How, exactly, is the latin name derived? I have a different name written on all of my 5 Compostela, using the same exact name on my credentials and passport. Because I obviously did not have my previous Compostela with me on subsequent walks, I didn't realize different names were put on until I got home ( and years after when giving a lecture and someone pointed it out! LOL )When it comes time to issue a Compostela, the staff FIRST look at your credencial. If it is not legible or if there is a question about spelling, they will ask to see your national passport or EU standard ID card (for EU citizens). THAT name is then converted to its Latin equivalent or root name. Hence, "Beth" becomes "Elizabetam." "Peggy" becomes "Margaratam, etc."
NOTE: That is the only time that national ID documents are normally required. People ask all the time if they need their national passport or EU IDs. I ask to see the credencial. That answers the question. So, if you do not want to have to get yours out, simply complete the inside front of your credencial completely and legibly, using Roman letters.
Please know that if you have a secular given name, like "Todd," "Crystal," "Moonbeam," etc. and the given name does not originate with a name for which there is a Latin root (e.g. Todd as a nickname for Theodore or Thaddeus), your name cannot be translated to Latin. It is what it is... That is but one reason that Latin is sometimes referred to as being "a dead language." In that case, the secular name will be used without attempts to Latinize it.
To avoid confusion, have the given (first) name you want on your Compostela clearly spelled out in Roman letters in your credencial (e.g. Thomas, Francis, Patrick, Gloria, Mary, etc.). BTW, filling out the inside front cover of your credencial is a real time saver.
If you approach the counter without this done, taking 30 seconds to do it does not sound like a lot of time. But, extrapolate that 30 seconds by... say 1000 pilgrims who failed to do this daily... and you have a total of 500 minutes or over 8 HOURS wasted time.
As a result, many of the Pilgrim Office volunteers are now walking the queue of waiting pilgrims, with pens and clipboards, asking to see credentials and directing holders to complete the blank spaces. It does really accelerate the process.
Hope this helps.
Not quite. It is a "dead language" in the sense that it has no native speakers these days. But the Roman Catholic church still uses Latin as its official principal language and the Vatican has to create neologisms now and again to express concepts that the ancient Romans never had to worry about. Which can lead to some quite funny terminology if you have that slightly warped sense of humour which enjoys word gamesAs Latin is officially a 'dead language' this infers that no additions are being made.
Verbose perhaps, but not as nearly so as when the "Immortals" at the Sorbonne must come up with a French tongue twister to describe some modern innovation, like email, using only approved French words and terms. That was a doozy...
I believe "le email" is now in general use. However, back in the 1980s, and IIRC, the official term for "email" was something like (I will use English, as my French is VERY rusty) '...the electronic system for corresponding with people, using electronic systems for communication..."
This is at least in the proverbial ballpark of what I specifically recall. Please, do correct me if you have the precise, original term.
This said, I am laughing in anticipation of what the compound German words might look like... The French have the Academy and the Immortals to adjudicate matters of language and new words. What does Germany have? Just curious...
Hope this helps.
But if enough people use the term then it will soon become 'a' Welsh term for microwave ovenUnfortunately, contrary to popular belief, the Welsh for microwave oven is not Popty Ping. But I really wish it was!
I do not have a microwave, but I could be persuaded to buy one just to have something to call a "popty ping" in my house. Would you mind terribly if I were to refer to my toaster as a popty ping?But if enough people use the term then it will soon become 'a' Welsh term for microwave ovenI live in a Welsh language hotspot - Cwm Gwendraeth -where Pobol Y Cwm is set and where filming used to take place. Pretty sure that some of my neighbours would be happy to use the term if only to give it a helping hand
Not my language so I have no say in the matter - but as far as I am concerned you are very welcome to do soWould you mind terribly if I were to refer to my toaster as a popty ping?
And his name would appear as “Caligulam” on a contemporary Compostela. It’s has to do with the rules of Latin grammar. I guess many people would like it better if the text were worded slightly differently so that Latinised names could be written in their normal form: Caligula, Michaela, etc etc."Caligula" for example, means "Little Boots" and was a name given by (effectively) German soldiers to the child emperor.
The most recent Compostela text contains the words metrorum and birota - metres and bicycle - not exactly words that are many hundreds of years old.In addition, the “powers that be” are sticklers for tradition
Women's names always end in '...am.' Male given names always end in '...um.'
I've tried to decipher the webpage I posted and it seems to me that Latin categorizes male and female names into three categories (called declensions on the webpage). The ending of the nominative version of a name probably determines the declension. The only case where the names end in am or um or em is the accusative (direct object) and you can see on the webpage that it is not the gender of the name that determines whether an em, am or a um is used but the declension (category) of the name.I know next to nothing about Latin grammar but the following may be useful to someone.
How to decline [Latin] personal names
How to decline personal names - Latin
First declension Second declension Third declension First declension First declension names used in this tutorial Alicia, -e (f.) Alice Amabila, -e (f.) Amabila Anna, -e (f.) Anna Christina, -e (f.) Christina Elizabetha, -e (f.) Elizabeth Ghida, -e (f.) Gytha Isabella, -e (f.) Isabella Johanna...www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
We know from other threads that they look them up “in the computer”. It is not known whether they have built their own database, or made a purchase, or have a subscription. They only use known Latin names from the Bible (in Latin), from antiquity (Romans) and from medieval times when it was fashionable to Latinize personal names and surnames. They don’t seem to create new Latinized names although that would be easy enough in many cases. Although, one or the other volunteer may be tempted to do so ...Is there a list in a computer bank? Does the volunteer choose from options? The differences are not substantial, but noted just the same.
Curious.
My mother-in-law is a Barbara. Would it take the accusative and become Barbaram? I don't think I could read that without thinking of a Beach Boys song.Frankly, all our names, even when we are called Barbara or Katharina, are not Latin names.
I wonder if centum milia metronum isn't meant to imply (one) hundred (Roman) miles (thousand paces) measured (except, of course, that metronome comes from the Greek - but then the Romans did er borrow much of their culture from the east)The most recent Compostela text contains the words metrorum and birota - metres and bicycle - not exactly words that are many hundreds of years old.
Except that both Katherine and Barbara are Greek namesWe know from other threads that they look them up “in the computer”. It is not known whether they have built their own database, or made a purchase, or have a subscription. They only use known Latin names from the Bible (in Latin), from antiquity (Romans) and from medieval times when it was fashionable to Latinize personal names and surnames. They don’t seem to create new Latinized names although that would be easy enough in many cases. Although, one or the other volunteer may be tempted to do so ...
For some personal names, there are several Latinized versions. Take a popular name like Thomas for example ☺. Latin nominative forms are Thomas, Thomasus and Thomasius. They will appear in the accusative form on the Compostela as Thomam, Thomasum and Thomasium. Allow one copying error for each and we have already six different versions on six different Compostelas.
Frankly, all our names, even when we are called Barbara or Katharina, are not Latin names. They are English personal names, or German or French or Spanish personal names, and they could treat them as such, in which case the Latin grammar rules say that they are not declined in a Latin text and appear in the same form as on one’s passport. The Compostela Latinization is half baked or half hearted anyway as they always leave the surname(s) unchanged.
I used to think it was supercool when I first learnt about it but now I think oh well what a gimmick why don’t they drop it.
In the translating world, context is everything. While it’s fun to contemplate where a word comes from, where it has travelled through, how it has changed shape and what else it may mean, on the Compostela centrum milia metrorum means one hundred thousand [SI] metres. And not one step (of any length) more or lessI wonder if centum milia metronum isn't meant to imply (one) hundred (Roman) miles (thousand paces) measured (except, of course, that metronome comes from the Greek - but then the Romans did er borrow much of their culture from the east)
I'm off topic from the thread here but this relates to @Kathar1na's quote above.Take a popular name like Thomas for example ☺. Latin nominative forms are Thomas, Thomasus and Thomasius. They will appear in the accusative form on the Compostela as Thomam, Thomasum and Thomasium. Allow one copying error for each and we have already six different versions on six different Compostelas.
There's a character in a book called Ian Fergeson who had emigrated to America from eastern Europe and was advised to take up an English sounding name to help him blend in. When interviewed by immigration his mind went blank and all he could think of to say was ikh fargesnI'm off topic from the thread here but this relates to @Kathar1na's quote above.
Doing some research on my family tree I had to track down a Rebecca [last name unknown]. The towns in the area where she lived kept birth, death and marriage records. The name Rebecca had a few common variant spellings at the time (1600s and 1700s). Additionally, clerks often made up their own spellings. In the mid-1800s the state decided to transcribe the handwritten records into books. Transcription errors arose. A recent internet project transcribed the books into webpages (with errors). I downloaded the pages to create my own database (but I swear there were no errors in names). Trying to find Rebecca within three counties I first found out that there were 99 variant spellings in the database.
BTW, I think I found her.
I've heard the story as a Jewish Yiddish speaker was being processed at the Ellis Island immigration center and was asked his name. The bureaucrat got distracted and asked for the name again. The man responded with "Schon vergessen" (already forgotten) and that's how he got his new Irish-American name of Sean Ferguson.There's a character in a book called Ian Fergeson who had emigrated to America from eastern Europe and was advised to take up an English sounding name to help him blend in. When interviewed by immigration his mind went blank and all he could think of to say was ikh fargesn
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