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Credential : First name question

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Alx

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Planning Camino Primitivo
My actual first name (used by my family, friends, at work and anywhere else for two decades) does not match the first name in my passport. By the end of my Camino journey, I'd love to have a fancy certificate I'd have framed to showcast. Obviously, I'd love it to be issued to my actual name. Same for my pilgrim's credential, I'd keep it for memories. Is that possible or the officials would insist on using my passport name? I will walk the Camino with my family, and they'd confirm my identity if needed.

I'm going to fill out the credential before I leave. So, which name should I use?
 

Felipe

Veteran Member
Hospitaleros in albergues are not particularly nit-picky with the info of the credencial. They sometimes ask for the passport, but most of the times not. As much as you can show that you and the guy in the official passport are the same person (not folksy nicknames, not "Bill" instead of "William"), I suppose there will not be a problem.
Just in case, let a space to fill manually your first name (or the initial of your first name), if need arises.
 
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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
What if you order a credencial from your confraternity and they put your everyday first name (I even saw them printed, from USA/CA) in it? And if hospitalero would ask why the first name in credencial and passport is different you can say that confraternity made a mistake. True, it's a lie, but hey... ;)
Anyway I think that hospitaleros see sooo many different names everyday that they won't remember your name in credencial while stamping it to the moment putting your "real" name from the passport in the list for Guardia Civil needs.
And in PO in SdC as I remember nobody asked me for my passport, just the credencial.

Buen Camino!
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
For anyone confused by the above, the credential that gets stamped along the way is sometimes called the pilgrim passport or shortened to passport. Not to be confused with your national passport. When you check into an albergue you may be asked to display both. The national passport to comply with national lodging laws and the pilgrim passport to be stamped and sometimes checked to see if you are qualified to spend the night there.

This thread deals with different names on these two "passports.'
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
For anyone confused by the above, the credential that gets stamped along the way is sometimes called the pilgrim passport or shortened to passport. Not to be confused with your national passport. When you check into an albergue you may be asked to display both. The national passport to comply with national lodging laws and the pilgrim passport to be stamped and sometimes checked to see if you are qualified to spend the night there.

This thread deals with different names on these two "passports.'
That's why it's best to use Spanish expression for pilgrim passport - credencial (we're talking Spain here after all). No mess ;)
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
When it comes time to issue a Compostela, the staff FIRST look at your credencial. If it is not legible or if there is a question about spelling, they will ask to see your national passport or EU standard ID card (for EU citizens). THAT name is then converted to its Latin equivalent or root name. Hence, "Beth" becomes "Elizabetam." "Peggy" becomes "Margaratam, etc."

NOTE: That is the only time that national ID documents are normally required. People ask all the time if they need their national passport or EU IDs. I ask to see the credencial. That answers the question. So, if you do not want to have to get yours out, simply complete the inside front of your credencial completely and legibly, using Roman letters.

Please know that if you have a secular given name, like "Todd," "Crystal," "Moonbeam," etc. and the given name does not originate with a name for which there is a Latin root (e.g. Todd as a nickname for Theodore or Thaddeus), your name cannot be translated to Latin. It is what it is... That is but one reason that Latin is sometimes referred to as being "a dead language." In that case, the secular name will be used without attempts to Latinize it.

To avoid confusion, have the given (first) name you want on your Compostela clearly spelled out in Roman letters in your credencial (e.g. Thomas, Francis, Patrick, Gloria, Mary, etc.). BTW, filling out the inside front cover of your credencial is a real time saver.

If you approach the counter without this done, taking 30 seconds to do it does not sound like a lot of time. But, extrapolate that 30 seconds by... say 1000 pilgrims who failed to do this daily... and you have a total of 500 minutes or over 8 HOURS wasted time.

As a result, many of the Pilgrim Office volunteers are now walking the queue of waiting pilgrims, with pens and clipboards, asking to see credentials and directing holders to complete the blank spaces. It does really accelerate the process.

Hope this helps.
 
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Terri B

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
1998 St Cuthberts Way, 1999 West Highland Way
2016 & 2019 Camino Frances SJPDP to Santiago
My birth name is Teresa, but I'm known as Terri. Teresa converted to Teresiam on my Compostela.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
Thanks Terri. You made my point.

Even non-standard spellings of Terri, like Terrie, Terry, Therry, etc. will be considered as direct derivatives of Theresa. Staff will use the more formal version of your given name (Theresa) in an attempt to show you the Latin conversion. They will present this to you for your acceptance. If you agree, it's a deal. If not, have an alternative already jotted down on a piece of paper.

Simply ask for this name or spelling you want on the Compostela instead. Staff are not in the business of arguing. We try to send everyone away with a smile, or happy tears, really we do...
 

Matej69

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
starting September 2019
Hi to all!
I have one basic question about credential. I see I can purchase it in advance. So I fill it with my personal info and that's it? Is there no need for registration in my first office?
Means - if I buy it in advance I can start with my first step immediately after arriving to my starting point?
 

Davey Boyd

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Again, soon as possible!
Hi to all!
I have one basic question about credential. I see I can purchase it in advance. So I fill it with my personal info and that's it? Is there no need for registration in my first office?
Means - if I buy it in advance I can start with my first step immediately after arriving to my starting point?
Yes, fill it in yourself, then you are ready to go. There is no registration.

ps I always write my telephone number or email address in my credential so if I lose it on the way I can be contacted and it can be returned to me.

Davey
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
A LOT of credencials go missing. People show up at the office all the time looking for their list credencial.

Many times, we ask them what name is written in the credencial. Too often, the reply is a sheepish “none.” In these cases, we will still look as few credencials are identical. Sometimes we get lucky.

So, immediately on obtaining a new credencial, please complete the inside front cover. If you lose it, start another replacement credencial immediately.

If you cannot get one, use a notebook or other paper to record sellos until you CAN start a formal credencial. Please don’t show up at the counter with a pocket full of bar napkins with dated sellos.... no joke... it’s been tried.

Most folks use their smartphones to take photos on their Caminos. If location services are turned on, each photo you take is “stamped” with the location, date and time. This can provide valuable backup to prove your continuous line of match along your Camino route, in the absence of a full credential. It has saved numerous requests for Compostelas.

Personally, I make a habit of photographing those rectangular white with black letter road signs that tell when I enter and leave a town. They bookmark each town and hamlet in my photos. Once I am all done and sorted at Santiago, I delete these sign photos.

Hope this helps.
 

Davey Boyd

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Again, soon as possible!
A LOT of credencials go missing. People show up at the office all the time looking for their list credencial.

Many times, we ask them what name is written in the credencial. Too often, the reply is a sheepish “none.” In these cases, we will still look as few credencials are identical. Sometimes we get lucky.

So, immediately on obtaining a new credencial, please complete the inside front cover. If you lose it, start another replacement credencial immediately.

If you cannot get one, use a notebook or other paper to record sellos until you CAN start a formal credencial. Please don’t show up at the counter with a pocket full of bar napkins with dated sellos.... no joke... it’s been tried.

Most folks use their smartphones to take photos on their Caminos. If location services are turned on, each photo you take is “stamped” with the location, date and time. This can provide valuable backup to prove your continuous line of match along your Camino route, in the absence of a full credential. It has saved numerous requests for Compostelas.

Personally, I make a habit of photographing those rectangular white with black letter road signs that tell when I enter and leave a town. They bookmark each town and hamlet in my photos. Once I am all done and sorted at Santiago, I delete these sign photos.

Hope this helps.
Thats funny, I do that with the road signs too! Then I know in which village or between which villages where each photo was taken.

Davey
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
Taking road sign photos, especially of THOSE road signs proves that you were there at that date and time.

Town churches are also very good reference points because: (1) they tend NOT to move; and (2) they are usually directly on the Camino route.
 

Juspassinthrough

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, May-June (2017)
Ingles, June (2019
Leon-Sarria, June (2019)
Le Puy-Santiago (2023)
Put the name you want on your Pilgrims Credential and that’s by default what they’ll put on your Certificate.

Warren (never used that) Keith Jones
 

Matej69

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
starting September 2019
Thank you for those useful tips.

Is it suggested to get first stamp on the start, actually before first step? In this case (I'll start in Pamplona), can I get a stamp in any place where I will take my first night. Also on the way - if I decide occasionally to sleep in some private appartment or a hotel - do they also have stamps (probably not)?
 

Davey Boyd

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Again, soon as possible!
Thank you for those useful tips.

Is it suggested to get first stamp on the start, actually before first step? In this case (I'll start in Pamplona), can I get a stamp in any place where I will take my first night. Also on the way - if I decide occasionally to sleep in some private appartment or a hotel - do they also have stamps (probably not)?
Yes get a stamp wherever you stay. Even private apartments on the Camino will have stamps. They are everywhere, all bars, post office, police stations, churches (if open) etc. You wont have a problem collecting stamps!

Davey
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ),Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )Camino Portugese (2018 )Camino Ingles(
When it comes time to issue a Compostela, the staff FIRST look at your credencial. If it is not legible or if there is a question about spelling, they will ask to see your national passport or EU standard ID card (for EU citizens). THAT name is then converted to its Latin equivalent or root name. Hence, "Beth" becomes "Elizabetam." "Peggy" becomes "Margaratam, etc."

NOTE: That is the only time that national ID documents are normally required. People ask all the time if they need their national passport or EU IDs. I ask to see the credencial. That answers the question. So, if you do not want to have to get yours out, simply complete the inside front of your credencial completely and legibly, using Roman letters.

Please know that if you have a secular given name, like "Todd," "Crystal," "Moonbeam," etc. and the given name does not originate with a name for which there is a Latin root (e.g. Todd as a nickname for Theodore or Thaddeus), your name cannot be translated to Latin. It is what it is... That is but one reason that Latin is sometimes referred to as being "a dead language." In that case, the secular name will be used without attempts to Latinize it.

To avoid confusion, have the given (first) name you want on your Compostela clearly spelled out in Roman letters in your credencial (e.g. Thomas, Francis, Patrick, Gloria, Mary, etc.). BTW, filling out the inside front cover of your credencial is a real time saver.

If you approach the counter without this done, taking 30 seconds to do it does not sound like a lot of time. But, extrapolate that 30 seconds by... say 1000 pilgrims who failed to do this daily... and you have a total of 500 minutes or over 8 HOURS wasted time.

As a result, many of the Pilgrim Office volunteers are now walking the queue of waiting pilgrims, with pens and clipboards, asking to see credentials and directing holders to complete the blank spaces. It does really accelerate the process.

Hope this helps.
How, exactly, is the latin name derived? I have a different name written on all of my 5 Compostela, using the same exact name on my credentials and passport. Because I obviously did not have my previous Compostela with me on subsequent walks, I didn't realize different names were put on until I got home ( and years after when giving a lecture and someone pointed it out! LOL )
Is there a list in a computer bank? Does the volunteer choose from options? The differences are not substantial, but noted just the same.
Curious.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
The Pilgrim Office has a table in their computer database. I believe this table was constructed from historical sources, writings, and older Latin dictionaries. When you present your credencial, they take the first name (given name) shown and refer to the alphabetical search results.

For example, a search for "Betty" will likely bring up entries for Elizabetham, Beatriciam, etc. Usually, several alternative Latin variants are presented. Women's names always end in '...am.' Male given names always end in '...um.'

NO, I do not know why this is the case. Perhaps a Latin scholar in the Forum might care to elaborate. But, I surmise it is to clearly flag male from female given names. The Bible is very binary in this regard. You have to be one or the other, because the Book of Genesis says so...

As Latin is officially a 'dead language' this infers that no additions are being made. But some things are still open to interpretation. For example, the given name Todd, might be derivative of Thaddeus, Theodore, or simply "Todd." Clearly, there are no "Todds" in the Bible, toads yes, but Todds, no.

I have seen this issue before. When a pilgrim named "Todd" presented himself, we asked if he was baptised or christened a Christian (any Christian sect). He said yes. We said, "...okay, if your parents were given a certificate to formally commemorate this ceremony, what name was on that certificate?" The reply was 'Todd." Hence, this is the name placed on his Compostela.

In cases of dispute, the office will generally accede to writing down the name you insist on. So, highly secular names, not derived from a Latin name, are permitted...

Hope this helps.

One can only try...
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
As Latin is officially a 'dead language' this infers that no additions are being made.
Not quite. It is a "dead language" in the sense that it has no native speakers these days. But the Roman Catholic church still uses Latin as its official principal language and the Vatican has to create neologisms now and again to express concepts that the ancient Romans never had to worry about. Which can lead to some quite funny terminology if you have that slightly warped sense of humour which enjoys word games :) I particularly like the term for vodka: válida pótio Slávica. A tad verbose. Though I agree that for personal names it is probably just a case of trying to apply a few basic principles and hope that the result is not too ridiculous...

 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
Verbose perhaps, but not as nearly so as when the "Immortals" at the Sorbonne must come up with a French tongue twister to describe some modern innovation, like email, using only approved French words and terms. That was a doozy...

I believe "le email" is now in general use. However, back in the 1980s, and IIRC, the official term for "email" was something like (I will use English, as my French is VERY rusty) '...the electronic system for corresponding with people, using electronic systems for communication..."

This is at least in the proverbial ballpark of what I specifically recall. Please, do correct me if you have the precise, original term.

This said, I am laughing in anticipation of what the compound German words might look like... The French have the Academy and the Immortals to adjudicate matters of language and new words. What does Germany have? Just curious...

Hope this helps.
 

Faye Walker

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
Ooooooh, and I just finished a course in Classical Roman history and learned that the naming conventions in the Roman Empire were to use 3: Preanomen, Cognomen, Agnomen.
The praenomen is the first name, given by the parents to the child (eg: Marcus for a boy, Lucia for a girl) -- these clearly do not follow the "um" and "am" endings stuck onto our given names on the Compostelas.
Obviously there's no equivalent for "Faye" in Latin, but it would be more conventional for to be rendered as Fayeia than as Fayeam... And it seems odd to me that a "Michelle" I know is written as "Michaelam" instead of "Michaela"...
So I'm not sure about the conventions of the office.

PS: we don't really have cognomen or agnomen as the Roman had them. "Caligula" for example, means "Little Boots" and was a name given by (effectively) German soldiers to the child emperor.
 

Faye Walker

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
Verbose perhaps, but not as nearly so as when the "Immortals" at the Sorbonne must come up with a French tongue twister to describe some modern innovation, like email, using only approved French words and terms. That was a doozy...

I believe "le email" is now in general use. However, back in the 1980s, and IIRC, the official term for "email" was something like (I will use English, as my French is VERY rusty) '...the electronic system for corresponding with people, using electronic systems for communication..."

This is at least in the proverbial ballpark of what I specifically recall. Please, do correct me if you have the precise, original term.

This said, I am laughing in anticipation of what the compound German words might look like... The French have the Academy and the Immortals to adjudicate matters of language and new words. What does Germany have? Just curious...

Hope this helps.
"Courriel électronique" -- did my graduate work in the 90's in a French language context. "Vous pouvez m'envoyez un courriel électronique."
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
Thank you for the assist. It is still a mouthful...similar to "el correo electrónico" in Spanish.

But, I do still recall an earlier, longer description in French when the technology first emerged. Perhaps I am thinking back in the 1980s?
 

Davey Boyd

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Again, soon as possible!
Old languages needing new words...

Unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, the Welsh for microwave oven is not Popty Ping. But I really wish it was!

Though Popty does mean oven, so Popty Ping is an oven that goes 'Ping'.

Davey
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
Unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, the Welsh for microwave oven is not Popty Ping. But I really wish it was!
But if enough people use the term then it will soon become 'a' Welsh term for microwave oven :) I live in a Welsh language hotspot - Cwm Gwendraeth -where Pobol Y Cwm is set and where filming used to take place. Pretty sure that some of my neighbours would be happy to use the term if only to give it a helping hand ;)
 

Faye Walker

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
But if enough people use the term then it will soon become 'a' Welsh term for microwave oven :) I live in a Welsh language hotspot - Cwm Gwendraeth -where Pobol Y Cwm is set and where filming used to take place. Pretty sure that some of my neighbours would be happy to use the term if only to give it a helping hand ;)
I do not have a microwave, but I could be persuaded to buy one just to have something to call a "popty ping" in my house. Would you mind terribly if I were to refer to my toaster as a popty ping?
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
"Caligula" for example, means "Little Boots" and was a name given by (effectively) German soldiers to the child emperor.
And his name would appear as “Caligulam” on a contemporary Compostela. It’s has to do with the rules of Latin grammar. I guess many people would like it better if the text were worded slightly differently so that Latinised names could be written in their normal form: Caligula, Michaela, etc etc.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
We ARE talking about the Catholic Church here. Change, ANY change comes very slowly and only after long deliberation.

In addition, the “powers that be” are sticklers for tradition. That is why the system for obtaining a Compostela is not as efficient as it might be. But, I keep trying...
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
I know next to nothing about Latin grammar but the following may be useful to someone.

How to decline [Latin] personal names
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
In addition, the “powers that be” are sticklers for tradition
The most recent Compostela text contains the words metrorum and birota - metres and bicycle - not exactly words that are many hundreds of years old. 🙃
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
Women's names always end in '...am.' Male given names always end in '...um.'
I know next to nothing about Latin grammar but the following may be useful to someone.

How to decline [Latin] personal names
I've tried to decipher the webpage I posted and it seems to me that Latin categorizes male and female names into three categories (called declensions on the webpage). The ending of the nominative version of a name probably determines the declension. The only case where the names end in am or um or em is the accusative (direct object) and you can see on the webpage that it is not the gender of the name that determines whether an em, am or a um is used but the declension (category) of the name.

There is a lot of fancy wording on the compostela but simplified it amounts to:
[someone/something] witnessed [name]​
Name being the direct object, the accusative case is called for.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
Perhaps an example will help to better understand the mystery of the odd ending of your Latinized name on your Compostela when you speak English or another language where grammar rules about direct objects and declension are of little importance.

In English, names don’t change their ending in sentences like these:
Anna saw Marcus. Marcus saw Anna.
In Latin, they do change:
Anna vidit Marcum. Marcus vidit Annam.

Note that we also say in English:
He saw Anna. Anna saw him. Here you have a similar kind of change as in Latin because you don’t say: Anna saw he.

If your name has been Latinized on your Compostela, it is not shown in the form that you ought to use when you say “My name is ...”. If you are female and your Compostela name ends in -am then drop the -m. If you are male and it ends in -um then change it to -us. In other cases, check the link posted by @Rick of Rick and Peg.

And like the ancient monks who copied books before the printing press was invented, the volunteers at the Pilgrims Office in Santiago make mistakes when they look up names in their database and copy them onto your Compostela. That’s why there may be a letter missing in your Latinized name or one too many or one that’s just plain wrong. Embrace it ☺.
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
Apropos of nothing, on my first Compostela, from 2013, the person who wrote my certificate used “Thomasam” (female) instead of “Thomasum” (male). My mother was not amused...

The next year, this was correctly stated on my second Compostela. I kept the original the way it was issued. After all, it is only a piece of paper.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
Is there a list in a computer bank? Does the volunteer choose from options? The differences are not substantial, but noted just the same.
Curious.
We know from other threads that they look them up “in the computer”. It is not known whether they have built their own database, or made a purchase, or have a subscription. They only use known Latin names from the Bible (in Latin), from antiquity (Romans) and from medieval times when it was fashionable to Latinize personal names and surnames. They don’t seem to create new Latinized names although that would be easy enough in many cases. Although, one or the other volunteer may be tempted to do so ...

For some personal names, there are several Latinized versions. Take a popular name like Thomas for example ☺. Latin nominative forms are Thomas, Thomasus and Thomasius. They will appear in the accusative form on the Compostela as Thomam, Thomasum and Thomasium. Allow one copying error for each and we have already six different versions on six different Compostelas.🙃

Frankly, all our names, even when we are called Barbara or Katharina, are not Latin names. They are English personal names, or German or French or Spanish personal names, and they could treat them as such, in which case the Latin grammar rules say that they are not declined in a Latin text and appear in the same form as on one’s passport. The Compostela Latinization is half baked or half hearted anyway as they always leave the surname(s) unchanged.

I used to think it was supercool when I first learnt about it but now I think oh well what a gimmick why don’t they drop it.
 
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Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
The most recent Compostela text contains the words metrorum and birota - metres and bicycle - not exactly words that are many hundreds of years old. 🙃
I wonder if centum milia metronum isn't meant to imply (one) hundred (Roman) miles (thousand paces) measured (except, of course, that metronome comes from the Greek - but then the Romans did er borrow much of their culture from the east)
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
We know from other threads that they look them up “in the computer”. It is not known whether they have built their own database, or made a purchase, or have a subscription. They only use known Latin names from the Bible (in Latin), from antiquity (Romans) and from medieval times when it was fashionable to Latinize personal names and surnames. They don’t seem to create new Latinized names although that would be easy enough in many cases. Although, one or the other volunteer may be tempted to do so ...

For some personal names, there are several Latinized versions. Take a popular name like Thomas for example ☺. Latin nominative forms are Thomas, Thomasus and Thomasius. They will appear in the accusative form on the Compostela as Thomam, Thomasum and Thomasium. Allow one copying error for each and we have already six different versions on six different Compostelas.🙃

Frankly, all our names, even when we are called Barbara or Katharina, are not Latin names. They are English personal names, or German or French or Spanish personal names, and they could treat them as such, in which case the Latin grammar rules say that they are not declined in a Latin text and appear in the same form as on one’s passport. The Compostela Latinization is half baked or half hearted anyway as they always leave the surname(s) unchanged.

I used to think it was supercool when I first learnt about it but now I think oh well what a gimmick why don’t they drop it.
Except that both Katherine and Barbara are Greek names ;) (and Catholic saints).
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I wonder if centum milia metronum isn't meant to imply (one) hundred (Roman) miles (thousand paces) measured (except, of course, that metronome comes from the Greek - but then the Romans did er borrow much of their culture from the east)
In the translating world, context is everything. While it’s fun to contemplate where a word comes from, where it has travelled through, how it has changed shape and what else it may mean, on the Compostela centrum milia metrorum means one hundred thousand [SI] metres. And not one step (of any length) more or less 🙃.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
Take a popular name like Thomas for example ☺. Latin nominative forms are Thomas, Thomasus and Thomasius. They will appear in the accusative form on the Compostela as Thomam, Thomasum and Thomasium. Allow one copying error for each and we have already six different versions on six different Compostelas.🙃
I'm off topic from the thread here but this relates to @Kathar1na's quote above.

Doing some research on my family tree I had to track down a Rebecca [last name unknown]. The towns in the area where she lived kept birth, death and marriage records. The name Rebecca had a few common variant spellings at the time (1600s and 1700s). Additionally, clerks often made up their own spellings. In the mid-1800s the state decided to transcribe the handwritten records into books. Transcription errors arose. A recent internet project transcribed the books into webpages (with errors). I downloaded the pages to create my own database (but I swear there were no errors in names). Trying to find Rebecca within three counties I first found out that there were 99 variant spellings in the database.

BTW, I think I found her.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
I'm off topic from the thread here but this relates to @Kathar1na's quote above.

Doing some research on my family tree I had to track down a Rebecca [last name unknown]. The towns in the area where she lived kept birth, death and marriage records. The name Rebecca had a few common variant spellings at the time (1600s and 1700s). Additionally, clerks often made up their own spellings. In the mid-1800s the state decided to transcribe the handwritten records into books. Transcription errors arose. A recent internet project transcribed the books into webpages (with errors). I downloaded the pages to create my own database (but I swear there were no errors in names). Trying to find Rebecca within three counties I first found out that there were 99 variant spellings in the database.

BTW, I think I found her.
There's a character in a book called Ian Fergeson who had emigrated to America from eastern Europe and was advised to take up an English sounding name to help him blend in. When interviewed by immigration his mind went blank and all he could think of to say was ikh fargesn
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
There's a character in a book called Ian Fergeson who had emigrated to America from eastern Europe and was advised to take up an English sounding name to help him blend in. When interviewed by immigration his mind went blank and all he could think of to say was ikh fargesn
I've heard the story as a Jewish Yiddish speaker was being processed at the Ellis Island immigration center and was asked his name. The bureaucrat got distracted and asked for the name again. The man responded with "Schon vergessen" (already forgotten) and that's how he got his new Irish-American name of Sean Ferguson.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
I needed Google to figure out that “ikh fargesn” is Yiddish for “I forgot”. It sounds a bit more authentic than “Schon vergessen” which is correct German but just doesn’t sound right for the situation. Amusing stories, nevertheless.
 

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