- Time of past OR future Camino
- Too many and too often!
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At least he would only need to find one sello to add to the one from Roncesvalles. A big time saver there....I was wondering if that time included queuing for their Compostella...
A professional cyclist has just set a new time record for cycling from Roncesvalles to Santiago: the first person to complete the distance in under 24 hours. Actual time was 23 hours and 37 minutes. Another cyclist from the Basque region is about to attempt the same feat within the next few days so the record may not stand for long.
http://www.biciciclismo.com/es/juli...iago-en-23-horas-y-37-minutos-26-07-2018?loc=
I was wondering if that time included queuing for their Compostella...
Wow. Indeed. I can only imagine how wobbly one would be coming into Santiago after almost 24 hours of continuous peddling - while pushing the pace to set a record. I ran the artcle through Google translate (for what it's worth) and it didn't say anything about whether it had been done continuously or not. Extreme sports being what they are, I am guessing it was.My Spanish is not strong enough to figure out if this was a straight-through time, or if he slept and resumed the clock. Anyone? I'm hoping the latter, but one never knows with "extreme athletes".
Straight-through. Sin parada. Would love to see the track, anyone? Police were helping in major cities, in Pamplona they appealed to the local population to assist while he raced through ... Ultracycling - I had never heard of it before.My Spanish is not strong enough to figure out if this was a straight-through time, or if he slept and resumed the clock. Anyone? I'm hoping the latter, but one never knows with "extreme athletes".
RAAM (Race Across America) is similar but much more demanding.Straight-through. Sin parada. Would love to see the track, anyone? Police were helping in major cities, in Pamplona they appealed to the local population to assist while he raced through ... Ultracycling - I had never heard of it before.
Exactly my first thought!At that speed, I hope he stuck to the roads and didn't terrify any pilgrims...!
This thread is so funny!!!Maybe he was in the Tour de France and took a wrong turn.
Of course he raced an tarmac roads all the time. There are a few photos on his website now. As I understand it, there was at least one if not two cars accompanying him, on one photo you see a sign on one car to alert other drivers, saying something like „cyclist ahead“ or so.Exactly my first thought!
Wow. Indeed. I can only imagine how wobbly one would be coming into Santiago after almost 24 hours of continuous peddling - while pushing the pace to set a record. I ran the artcle through Google translate (for what it's worth) and it didn't say anything about whether it had been done continuously or not. Extreme sports being what they are, I am guessing it was.
This is the second thread today that has me in stitches!!I read in t
I read in the newspaper that he did it without stopping. They wrote that he failed his last attempt: he fell asleep on the bike and ran into a church (!!!)
St. James caught that pilgrim before he could hit something more deadly, like a car.he fell asleep on the bike and ran into a church (!!!)
462 miles!!462 miles in 23.5 hours is an average speed of almost 20 miles/hour.
I see from his website that he has participated in the Race Across America several times, with top results (once on 4th place). He did his Camino de Santiago challenge for the first time in 2007 in 28 hours and then in 2008 in 27 hours (over 740 km each time). He says at the time they did not yet have the sort of race calendars as today. He's a kind of pioneer for ultracycling in Spain. He says at the time it was a good way to promote the sport to press and sponsors. And that's why he still has a special relationship with this particular challenge. He is originally from Burgos.RAAM (Race Across America) is similar but much more demanding.
It was tongue in cheek hinting at the friction between walkers and bikes on the hiking paths. Couldn't help myself, apologies.Of course he raced an tarmac roads all the time. There are a few photos on his website now. As I understand it, there was at least one if not two cars accompanying him, on one photo you see a sign on one car to alert other drivers, saying something like cyclist ahead or so.
No need to apologise. I saw from comments elsewhere that some people do think that he rode on "their" path ...It was tongue in cheek hinting at the friction between walkers and bikes on the hiking paths. Couldn't help myself, apologies.
Why...? He gained a record, but lost a lot more.A professional cyclist has just set a new time record for cycling from Roncesvalles to Santiago: the first person to complete the distance in under 24 hours. Actual time was 23 hours and 37 minutes. Another cyclist from the Basque region is about to attempt the same feat within the next few days so the record may not stand for long.
http://www.biciciclismo.com/es/juli...iago-en-23-horas-y-37-minutos-26-07-2018?loc=
Why...? He gained a record, but lost a lot more.
If I would have the means I want to walk across AustraliaI see from his website that he has participated in the Race Across America several times, with top results (once on 4th place). He did his Camino de Santiago challenge for the first time in 2007 in 28 hours and then in 2008 in 27 hours (over 740 km each time). He says at the time they did not yet have the sort of race calendars as today. He's a kind of pioneer for ultracycling in Spain. He says at the time it was a good way to promote the sport to press and sponsors. And that's why he still has a special relationship with this particular challenge. He is originally from Burgos.
It may be difficult to wrap one's head around it but the road to Santiago is a famous road. Like the Silk Road, Route 66, London-Brighton, die Romantische Straße, the road to Timbuktu ....
His next goal is the "24-hour World Championship in the desert of Borrego Springs (California) where he seeks to enter the 800 km club."
If I would have the means I want to walk across Australia
Hahaha, I know the story.Like that Lady with the camels...!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...02/Tracks-The-true-story-behind-the-film.html
I ask the same question?WHY !
Seriously? How much water can you carry?If I would have the means I want to walk across Australia
Hi LGLGSeriously? How much water can you carry?
I was wondering if that time included queuing for their Compostella...
As @Tincatinker says online translation is easily available and the event was publicised well in advance and supervised by the relevant sport's recording body. As a general aid to reading websites in languages other than your own you could try using Google Chrome as your web browser. It can be set to translate automatically by default. Alternatively web pages can be translated simply by right-clicking over the foreign language text and then selecting "Translate to English" in the pop-up menu.Ok, outside of the obvious, let's take a look at this feat. And as my Spanish is quite rudimentary, I have not read the article. (A posted translation would be appreciated).
It was done non stop and this would not be a big deal for some of these ultra cyclists.Ok, outside of the obvious, let's take a look at this feat. And as my Spanish is quite rudimentary, I have not read the article. (A posted translation would be appreciated).
It is doubtful that the trip was done in 23 h 37 m on a continuous basis. Granted, it does mean that an average speed of about 35km/h has to be maintained.
It is highly doubtful that the route taken by bike included much off road distance. Imagine a bike passing you on the path at 35 km/h or more? And that speed, on a bike, is pretty much impossible on the uphill, and we know how much uphill there is out there, by road or path.
One advantage though, he did not have to stop often for stamps in his passport.
I am not saying that this is impossible or that there may have been some, ahem, unethical practices, but with the latest electric bike capabilities, and running the clock while riding about 8 hours a day over 3 days, it makes the achievement of this journey much more plausible.
Even untrained ones. I used to do triathlons and could go that fast and faster, and I was no whiz athlete, just a hacker. But go down at any speed, and it's messy, so it could be scary as you know what. But that's another story.35km/h is easily achieved for trained cyclists
Hahahhahaha!my dad and his friend were stopped for exceeding the speed limit whilst cycling in town. The cop let them off with a warning, when he realised they were 80. Dad still dines out on that story
Lots of people do. And it was so long ago that it feels like another life and certainly another body. The ones I did were relatively short ones, or just being part of a relay team for an ironman distance, only doing one part (what's that? A monathlon?).Wow, Vira, you did triathlons???
Surely he fell asleep and cycled into a church?I read in t
I read in the newspaper that he did it without stopping. They wrote that he failed his last attempt: he fell asleep on the bike and ran into a church (!!!)
Exactly my first thought!
All the more reason why separate designated paths need to be implemented for walkers and cyclists.
I share your sentiments but I also have admiration for the physical and mental abilities and the sheer stamina of these individual riders. When the thread started, I knew next to nothing about it all but I've now gained some insight. I was starting to root for Mikel Asparran, as I followed the tweets of his crew after his start today in Roncesvalles. Sadly, he had to give up after four and a half hours in or after Logroño. No accident, luckily.even though I cycle everywhere, I am not a fan of these kinds of events when they take place on public roads.
I am Scottish. My sister lived for some years in the same village as the Proclaimers. When I was walking the Olavsleden from Sundsvall to Trondheim I was in a small town supermarket when their song "500 miles" came on the shop's music system. I wonder what the staff thought when they saw a grey-haired Scotsman almost falling over with laughter next to the shelves of tinned fishThe music is "I'm on my way" by the Proclaimers.
These guys may not be what some people think of as 'true pilgrims,' but who of us here can relate to those sentiments? I would guess anyone who has walked any challenging distance (however far that may be) and entered Santiago. This thread has opened my heart in a surprising way.There is something special about the Camino de Santiago that cannot be explained in words. A linear trip across the Spanish peninsula, powered only by one’s own force and surrounded by the loneliness that is inherent to the ultracycling discipline, is the most intense cycling experience I've ever had.
To feel how you advance by pedaling and pedaling, crossing the valleys of Navarra and the countryside of La Rioja with the strength that you have during the first hours. Rolling through the night with the full moon as your companion through the plains of Castilla and reaching Leon at dawn. Climbing the pass of O Cebreiro with 600 km in your legs and after that, traversing the undulated Galician terrain to reach the Plaza del Obradorio de Santiago de Compostela … I pursued a dream that I could finally realise and it has gifted me with the memories of a ride that I will never forget.
It's unbelievable to see how the kilometers clock up and your strength decreases but your dream and your aspiration remains, because, in life as in sports, it’s your passion that makes the difference.
Hear, hear!!!These guys may not be what some people think of as 'true pilgrims,' but who of us here can relate to those sentiments? I would guess anyone who has walked any challenging distance (however far that may be) and entered Santiago. This thread has opened my heart in a surprising way.
(Cycling all night across the meseta by moonlight? That would be something.)
This cyclist is not on a pilgrimage. He cycled the roads to Santiago.
Why should his feat* be used to separate walkers and cyclists on the Camino?
The Camino is a pilgrim route, not a walker's route exclusively.
Are there some obnoxious cyclists? Yes, there are.
Some of them even live along the Camino!
Good luck with gathering all the cyclists who live local to the Camino routes and telling them that their public routes are no longer open to them! And their taxes will have to pay for new routes for their bikes! Can I watch?
I don't know what the answer is to obnoxious cyclists on the Camino.
I 'm fairly sure that the answer to obnoxious, walking pilgrims is not to remove their footwear, or to tell them to walk "over there".
* even though I cycle everywhere, I am not a fan of these kinds of events when they take place on public roads. A cyclist going full tilt for 24 hours or longer is not safe on the roads. Probably more a danger to themselves, but that's not the point.
The most famous exponent of this sport, Mike Hall was killed last year in Australia after an early morning collision with a car.
My concern with such a feat is that it will likely inspire other cyclists to try and ride even faster...improving their final TIME to Santiago...and putting walkers in even more danger!
I agree. I often waited until a path was clear, or walked my bike if I was enjoying the company.Flatlander, there are parts of the Camino Frances that really are too narrow in high season for both groups to safely navigate IMP.
I agree.I WISH THERE WAS A BELL TEST! We only walk in twos and are rarely together as paths narrow. The path from Sarria to Santiago is often too crowded for all to walk and ride safely in high seasons.
I have nothing against bike riders on the Camino.
I still ride a bike. But I know when a situation is precarious and have experienced several potentially dangerous encounters with bikes who come up too fast from behind us, yes, NO BELL, and not even a verbal warning. I can assure you, that they hear me as they startle us! Something has to give! Let both groups use paths together where there is sufficient room...and provide a separate path for bikers or walkers when the paths are too narrow. There is no reason a new path could not be started or the old paths widened. More people are going to get hurt or killed. I am sorry you resent my concern that there is a significant safety issue that needs to be addressed. Based upon a recent publication regarding the Camino...there are Spaniards that too recognize that there is a safety issue!
What message are you giving to them?I can assure you, that they hear me as they startle us!
Ok, outside of the obvious, let's take a look at this feat. And as my Spanish is quite rudimentary, I have not read the article. (A posted translation would be appreciated).
It is doubtful that the trip was done in 23 h 37 m on a continuous basis. Granted, it does mean that an average speed of about 35km/h has to be maintained.
It is highly doubtful that the route taken by bike included much off road distance. Imagine a bike passing you on the path at 35 km/h or more? And that speed, on a bike, is pretty much impossible on the uphill, and we know how much uphill there is out there, by road or path.
One advantage though, he did not have to stop often for stamps in his passport.
I am not saying that this is impossible or that there may have been some, ahem, unethical practices, but with the latest electric bike capabilities, and running the clock while riding about 8 hours a day over 3 days, it makes the achievement of this journey much more plausible.
I am also a walker who has been very startled by cyclists. Walking alone, lost in my thoughts which is part of being a pilgrim. From Sarria we encountered groups of them riding 2 or more abreast. I had them nudge me off the path on the path once, I almost stumbled.I agree. I often waited until a path was clear, or walked my bike if I was enjoying the company.
I agree.
I mainly cycled later in the day when most of the walkers were already off the path. After Sarria, I took to buying some nice food and drink and took to the forest for most of the day. I'd have been driven demented otherwise. Then I headed towards the setting sun.
Given that you advocated banning bikes from the traditional route based on an extreme sporting event that took place on the roads I'm afraid I'll have to take a spoonful of salt with that one!
Again, I understand that your position is that because some bikers behave irresponsibly, all bikers should be banished from the path.
I don't resent your concern for safety issues. I resent your suggestion that I should not follow the same path as you because I choose to travel by bike. Apparently, by choosing to ride a bike I am now a danger to walkers.
I have not denied that there are safety risks.
I have suggested the issue is more with the person, rather than the mode of transport. And that also some psychology comes into play, especially in relation to group dynamics.
I don't believe that advocating that all cyclists follow the road or get their own paths is either fair or in the spirit of the Camino. It is also plainly impractical as it will result in locals being banned from riding on their own roads & paths!
Dialogue & education is the answer. Easier said than done, though.
What message are you giving to them?
Flatlander, there are parts of the Camino Frances that really are too narrow in high season for both groups to safely navigate IMP. I WISH THERE WAS A BELL TEST! We only walk in twos and are rarely together as paths narrow. The path from Sarria to Santiago is often too crowded for all to walk and ride safely in high seasons.
I have nothing against bike riders on the Camino. I still ride a bike. But I know when a situation is precarious and have experienced several potentially dangerous encounters with bikes who come up too fast from behind us, yes, NO BELL, and not even a verbal warning. I can assure you, that they hear me as they startle us! Something has to give! Let both groups use paths together where there is sufficient room...and provide a separate path for bikers or walkers when the paths are too narrow. There is no reason a new path could not be started or the old paths widened. More people are going to get hurt or killed. I am sorry you resent my concern that there is a significant safety issue that needs to be addressed. Based upon a recent publication regarding the Camino...there are Spaniards that too recognize that there is a safety issue!
So what am I saying - well there are sections of the Camino that are not suitable for bikes; there are also sections that are in effect local pubic roads and here the walkers need to be prepared to yield right of way. (A 4000kg tractor does not stop all that quickly).
I am also a walker who has been very startled by cyclists. Walking alone, lost in my thoughts which is part of being a pilgrim. From Sarria we encountered groups of them riding 2 or more abreast. I had them nudge me off the path on the path once, I almost stumbled.
Also the packs of local Spanish cyclists swooping around in their bright lycra, clearly on training rides. They are terrifying, speeding on the Camino, often coming from the opposite direction.
That's your most relevant point in this debate thus far, and it is valid. I just don't agree with your solution.Hi Mike, I agree with most of what you write. You too sound like a considerate cyclist! Thank you too! Mike, here is the problem. I cannot yield to what I do not see or what I cannot hear. That is my point!
I absolutely agree. Advance warning is necessary.If bikes are on a trail...they need to warn riders ..and give them sufficient time to get out of the way without having to jump to avoid injury! This assumes the trail is wide enough..which sometimes is not the case.
It would be nice, Mike, if cyclists and walkers could coexist on the CF.
Unfortunately, there are some cyclists who do not give way..try to squeeze into areas that place the walker in danger..and the walker does not know which way to move.
I could start listing off other behaviour I witnessed on my Camino and advocating that those people should be banned. And believe me, I have some interesting stories!I must honestly tell you that I have not experienced one cyclist, yet, on the Camino who got off his/her bike in heavy traffic on the trails. On the contrary, I have seen cyclists, try and ride through a group of about 20 pilgrims on perhaps no more than a 2 meter wide area. Instead of getting off the bike and walking through that section, or, getting on the road, which was an option, they tried to push through those twenty people. Some of the pilgrims jumped..and a couple stumbled. Because there was no place for them to go!
I'm sure you've heard the phrase about hard cases making bad laws. Again, it is unfair and potentially dangerous to punish a group for the behaviour of some.Rules and laws change because of circumstances. The speed and quietness of modern bicycles coming aside pilgrims-as well as the numbers of pilgrims, sometimes in narrow stretches, warrants changes in parts of the route for bikers and/ or walkers.
Well, let me reply with some hyperbolic options**I am all for coexisting as long as it is safe. However, we both know that there are parts of the CF in high season that are really not safe for bikes and walkers to coexist.
One month every year each of the Camino routes should be dedicated to cyclists only
My final point, I believe, is the most contentious. You make reference to being lost in your thoughts.
(I did that once on my Camino... on my bike.... I ended up with lots of blood loss, 3 cracked ribs and a dislocated shoulder!)
The fact is, the Camino is pretty much on public paths or roads. With the greatest of respect, being lost in thought is risky behaviour. I am not trying to victim blame. I am not trying to say that it's your fault that you were nudged.
I -- and most others -- do not do it because of the physical aspects, it is because of its spiritual and religious and mental activity accompanied by its physical nature.
Hello pilgrims. I’m planning on doing the last 100km from Sarria to Santiago commencing the morning of the 6th of September from Sarria. Any other pilgrims walking at a similar time
Dave, well written. I am concerned, that pilgrims who are praying or reflecting, do need, given the reality of high season congestion and the speed and number of bicycles, to remain somewhat aware in areas that tend to be narrower. You are certainly right about the meditative nature of the pilgrims walking. However, they are even more at risk of getting hurt then. I wish this were not so! So I ask walkers in high seasons, including Holy Week, to be aware that using ear pieces in congested areas might make you more vulnerable of getting injured..especially in Galacia. Hopefully, at some point, there can be designated areas for bikers and for walkers in certain sections of the CF. This is, IMO, particularly needed in parts of the Camino between Sarria and Santiago.
I agree that one should take care to not have noise producing things blocking their hearing. If I do hear a bicycle approaching from the rear, I try to be as courteous as is possible, within reason. For instance, I will move as far to the side as I can without putting myself into an uncomfortable situation, and then wish the rider a Buen Camino as s/he passes by. The key is whether I hear the approach
A few other thoughts:
There is also another reason for failure to adequately hear stuff, including bicycles, aside from wearing headphones, etc, and that is hearing loss. Given the large percentage of 'senior' pilgrims, decreased hearing ability is going to be a fairly common issue. I am someone who also suffers from that issue, primary as a progression from decibel insults in the military.
The bicyclist is the primary injury causing agent in bicycle vs pedestrian accidents. In other words, it is the weight, speed, and momentum discrepancy of the cyclist -- when combined with an unwillingness of many cyclists on the Caminos to do what is necessary to remove that discrepancy when in contact with pedestrians -- which creates the concern. It is also the bicycle which is the "newcomer", relatively speaking, to being on the Caminos; pedestrians were on Camino long before bicycles. So the oneous must be on the cyclist to take action to make the 'shared' nature of the Way work so that the pedestrian is protected.
There is some indication that the Spanish authorities also may feel that same way. Given the latest round of discussions going on within the various jurisdictions through which the Camino routes cross, the authorities are now starting to pay some attention to the complaints by pedestrians about cyclists; and, from what I've read, have not ruled out future consideration of creating two separate paths. I would imagine it is solely in the hands of the general cyclist population to determine whether or not their collective behavior while on the Camino will eventually force the issue further.
Dave, sorry you are experiencing hearing loss. I have read that many former military have experienced this as well. Thank you for your service to our nation.
.
This is from a post I made earlier this year.
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1. Assume the pedestrian pilgrims cannot hear you approaching. Bad hearing, conversation, self absorption, focusing on the scenery, traffic noise nearby.... there are a lot of reasons that don't include headphones and music. Given the nature of a Pilgrimage, it should be of no surprise that there is a lot of internal focus for the pedestrian pilgrim.
2. Give a loud enough warning, when you are far enough away, so as not to not startle pedestrian pilgrims. A startled pilgrim is an unpredictable pilgrim and could bolt right into the bicyclists path, causing injury to both. Additionally, it is quite unpleasant to be suddenly frightened.
3. As you approach a pedestrian pilgrim(s), slow down. This helps minimize the large difference in weight and momentum and makes everyone safer.
4. In general, except for those who somehow feel entitled differently, most rules of a shared pathway are based on what is written above and are simply normal commonsense to keep all pedestrians and bicyclists safe: Bicycles and Pedestrians yield to horses. Bicyclists yield to Pedestrians.
5. While it may seem advisable for a pedestrian walking along a pathway to be aware of bicyclists, and it is something one should try to do, pedestrian pilgrims are not responsible for your behavior on a bicycle. They cannot make a warning for the bicyclist, nor use the brakes, nor steer the wheel.
6. Pedestrian and Bicycle Pilgrims are on Camino for a shared goal. Each is there to gain some sort of fulfillment and experience the Camino spiritually or physically, or culturally, or religiously or all of the above. Loving, caring, and respecting one another requires accommodation of differences and nurturing an attitude of giving. Pedestrians can assist the bicyclist by standing aside when you know they are approaching, offering to help with mechanical breakdowns (if knowledgeable), and grabbing a piece of the bike -- with permission -- to help the bicycle peregrino make it up a steep slope or extra muddy path.
Bicycle Peregrinos can be of similar attitude by simply observing the points above.
God Bless Us All; And Let Us Love One Another.
Well, if that is indeed the law, then it seems to provide the definitive answer. If the path is less than 3 metres wide (which is the case with many Camino paths) or crowded so that a bicyclist cannot pass without at least a metre to spare, then the cyclist should not be there.
My beef is that cyclists expect pedestrians on the Camino to step off the path to make way for the cyclist. It is also not my experience that they dismount and walk their bikes around pedestrians.[/QUOTE
Yes, and when they are passing it should not be more than 10km per hr. How many come wizzing by, way over 10Km...
It is also not my experience that they dismount and walk their bikes around pedestrians.
Imagine that on that typical Galician dug-in path up to O'CebreiroI couldn’t believe my eyes recently, on a very busy path between Sarria and Santiago. I had got myself into a thick crowd of walking pilgrims (it happens after Sarria), and all of a sudden I realised that a herd of cows were coming the other way (difficult to see them coming amongst the crowd). As the cows were actually passing me (so close I could touch them), two cyclists, also coming the other way, tried to CYCLE between us. It obviously didn’t occur to them that they were adding to the already very stressful situation .
Jill
OMG. Didn't anyone tell them that what they were doing was magnifying everyone's stress?I couldn’t believe my eyes recently, on a very busy path between Sarria and Santiago. I had got myself into a thick crowd of walking pilgrims (it happens after Sarria), and all of a sudden I realised that a herd of cows were coming the other way (difficult to see them coming amongst the crowd). As the cows were actually passing me (so close I could touch them), two cyclists, also coming the other way, tried to CYCLE between us. It obviously didn’t occur to them that they were adding to the already very stressful situation .
Well, if that is indeed the law, then it seems to provide the definitive answer. If the path is less than 3 metres wide (which is the case with many Camino paths) or crowded so that a bicyclist cannot pass without at least a metre to spare, then the cyclist should not be there.
My beef is that cyclists expect pedestrians on the Camino to step off the path to make way for the cyclist. It is also not my experience that they dismount and walk their bikes around pedestrians.
. . . .<snip> Re the expectation that pedestrians should step off the path : not necessarily but they should share the path in a charitable fashion (as should the cyclist). Dismounting and walking around the pedestrian is completely unrealistic if not to say nonsensical ; how many times per day would the cyclist need to do this on a busy route?
I know that religion is not to be discussed on the forum but perhaps I may be forgiven this paraphrase :
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
I did make the point that I had both cycling and walking experience on the CF, at busy times of the year.
Some vignettes :
1. Mountain bikers (with heavy panniers) having to manhandle their steeds up the Alto de Perdon when the path was in a very poor state. Why not use the road for such a stretch?
2. Walkers (about 8 people) occupying the entire width of a small public road which was the "official" CF. Ringing our bells had little effect.
3. Walking groups which split taking to both sides of the track...and then one person changes his mind and crosses to the other side...dangerous for all concerned.
4. Cycling parties racing across a narrow bridge at high speed with no consideration for the walkers (us) already on the bridge...even more dangerous. This type of behaviour seems to be the prerogative of large, organised tour groups and local mountain bikers (sometimes in even larger groups).
5. Meeting a young mountain biker who was intent on averaging 60 km per day on the walking path. He had already gone over the handlebars twice between St Jean and Logrono (fortunately without serious injury).
6. Abandoning the walkers' path when it was too narrow, too steep, too busy ; all features making us lose time ; remember that a cyclist is covering anything up to 90 km per day (which in my view requires significant use of the roads rather than the path).
So...a foot (literally and metaphorically) in both camps. As I said above, do unto others...
I know that religion is not to be discussed on the forum but perhaps I may be forgiven this paraphrase :
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
I did make the point that I had both cycling and walking experience on the CF, at busy times of the year.
Some vignettes :
1. Mountain bikers (with heavy panniers) having to manhandle their steeds up the Alto de Perdon when the path was in a very poor state. Why not use the road for such a stretch?
2. Walkers (about 8 people) occupying the entire width of a small public road which was the "official" CF. Ringing our bells had little effect.
3. Walking groups which split taking to both sides of the track...and then one person changes his mind and crosses to the other side...dangerous for all concerned.
4. Cycling parties racing across a narrow bridge at high speed with no consideration for the walkers (us) already on the bridge...even more dangerous. This type of behaviour seems to be the prerogative of large, organised tour groups and local mountain bikers (sometimes in even larger groups).
5. Meeting a young mountain biker who was intent on averaging 60 km per day on the walking path. He had already gone over the handlebars twice between St Jean and Logrono (fortunately without serious injury).
6. Abandoning the walkers' path when it was too narrow, too steep, too busy ; all features making us lose time ; remember that a cyclist is covering anything up to 90 km per day (which in my view requires significant use of the roads rather than the path).
So...a foot (literally and metaphorically) in both camps. As I said above, do unto others...
I think it’s great that the forum is a place where people can vent their frustrations. And I agree with many of the descriptions of what can only be called rude behavior. As more people come to the camino, more rude people will be in that cohort.
I do think there are things worth fighting for, but fighting for manners on the Camino Francés doesn’t seem to me to be one of them. I have walked every year since 2000 except for one, and none of these complaints resonate with me. But that’s because I moved off the Francés and now walk untraveled caminos. Maybe that’s the coward’s way out, but I think that if this rude behavior really interferes with your camino enjoyment, you should consider the many alternatives that are just as beautiful, just as historic, and way more pleasant.
Buen camino, Laurie
Response to:
2) Your point about 8 people walking abreast is well taken. This is inconsiderate to cyclists and cars.
Sometimes I do not hear the bells until the first bike is close...it may be the way the wind is blowing, or rain, or other noise? As Dave mentioned some senior walkers may have a slight hearing loss. That is why it is so important for bikes to slow down when approaching. ...yes and if need be get off the bike. What do you propose...if someone can not hear you?
6) Yes, if one wants to do 90km per day in high season they should think about going off the path and onto the roads when conditions are not appropriate. As a walker, I have made the choice to walk along the roads when conditions were too difficult for me to remain on the path...that includes too much snow, path too muddy, and on occasion, to many people and bikes on the path.
I think it’s great that the forum is a place where people can vent their frustrations. And I agree with many of the descriptions of what can only be called rude behavior. As more people come to the camino, more rude people will be in that cohort.
I do think there are things worth fighting for, but fighting for manners on the Camino Francés doesn’t seem to me to be one of them. I have walked every year since 2000 except for one, and none of these complaints resonate with me. But that’s because I moved off the Francés and now walk untraveled caminos. Maybe that’s the coward’s way out, but I think that if this rude behavior really interferes with your camino enjoyment, you should consider the many alternatives that are just as beautiful, just as historic, and way more pleasant.
Buen camino, Laurie
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