RonnieSherpa
...Life Is What We Make It...
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Planning a Trip in 2 years (2015) With my Wife (and in 2 years) my 10yr old Son.
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That's what I was thinking to get there, Just really wondering about the return trip? Thanks jirit I haven't gotten to the fly into where and train to here or there and such to get started but will start inquiring with whoever would be helpful to answer...Cheers...Buy one way tickets. In Canada we have Air Transit that sells relatively inexpensive one tickets. I am sure there are some discount airlines in the States that offer the same.
I don't know anyone who has gone from US to the Camino on a one-way ticket. Somewhere in the back of my mind I have a vague recollection that it is possible, though not likely, that you will be denied entry without a one way ticket.
But the main criterion is going to be price. Buying a one way ticket to the US from Spain upon completion of your Camino is going to be very expensive indeed. I had a friend who had to go home unexpectedly and though it cost her over $800 to change the date of her return flight, it was cheaper than the $2300 that buying a new ticket would cost.
jirit, I don't know of any airlines like the one you mention, but maybe there are some in the big cities. I live in the boonies and am stuck with just one air carrier.
A couple of points for you to consider. First is that major airlines normally only release about 12 months of their flight schedules for booking, and some of the budget airlines seem to release less. So you won't be able to do much detailed flight planning for a while yet if you are planning for 2015.Definatly need assistance navigating travel logistics, that's why I thought to start early.
Ronnie:
You also might have a problem getting an entry visa w/o a return ticket.
Ultreya,
Joe
It's been over a decade since I was last asked to show evidence of having a return ticket, and that was entering South Africa. I was expecting the question, so there must have been some information available that this was an issue there. I cannot recall being asked in Europe or the UK on more recent trips.The best way around this is to contact the embassy of the nation you are visiting prior to travel and ask if a return ticket is required.
In my experience with one way tickets its the airline that will get soggy and hard to light; the customs people just stamp the passport and pass you through. If you do have trouble you can quote the embassy response to your query.
Ronnie:
I recommend you buy a round-trip ticket. Plan your Camino the best you (#days) can and if you get in early spend some time in Santiago or walk to the coast. If you get in too early you can always just change your ticket for around $250. That is much cheaper than buying two one way tickets.
You also might have a problem getting an entry visa w/o a return ticket.
Ultreya,
Joe
I also understand this to be the general approach for tickets that aren't booked as fully flexible - a fee to make the changes and the fare difference. The specific rules for the different fare types should be explained to you when you make the booking, even if you are booking online and not through a travel agent. Tempting as it is to just click on the checkbox saying you have read through the terms and conditions, this is one time when it might be important to actually skim through the details.In my experience, though it is true that the fee for changing may be $250, that is just the fee for the privilege of changing your ticket. You will still have to pay whatever difference there is between the fare you actually paid and the fare that you would have had to pay if you bought the ticket on the day you are changing it to. That's why my friend had to cough up $800 to change her ticket. $250 was the change fee, and the other $550 reflected the fact that the fare was now much higher than it was when she had originally bought her ticket. But maybe different airlines do things differently.
Iberia does it this way. I spent a half-hour on the phone with their agent until I figured out what he was doing. He was comparing my fare with all available fares. My fare was months old, the Euro had fluctuated, etc., so there was nothing close. I had expected that if I wanted to change my flight to the same flight on a different day, that I would pay the $250 fee. NO. No. no. Airlines are heartless mercenaries, and when they have you over a barrel, do not expect a break. You are more likely to get a break from a banker, lawyer, or used car salesman! They call it "yield management," but it really is a craven lust for maximum profit. Half of airline revenue now is the additional fees they charge, baggage, food, reservation changes, etc. They have fallen in love with taking advantage of their customers, and it has become their way of doing business. There is no place where you can be as certain that they will lie to you, even when the truth may be to their advantage. Well, cell phone companies can come close...In my experience, though it is true that the fee for changing may be $250, that is just the fee for the privilege of changing your ticket. You will still have to pay whatever difference there is between the fare you actually paid and the fare that you would have had to pay if you bought the ticket on the day you are changing it to. That's why my friend had to cough up $800 to change her ticket. $250 was the change fee, and the other $550 reflected the fact that the fare was now much higher than it was when she had originally bought her ticket. But maybe different airlines do things differently.
They know. Their computers continually evaluate ticket sales analyzed against previous years to maximize profit by charging the most they can and still fill the airplane. There can be as many fares as there are seats, at least theoretically.i doubt they even know what that price was back then
Hi Laurie
You have to explain more about this statement
"And one little tidbit about all of these fees that really gets in my craw is that it has had a huge impact on airlines' tax liability. They pay (local taxes at least, and maybe only in the US) taxes based on their income, which is the fares they charge, and all this fee revenue goes tax free into their coffers."
Are you suggesting that the additional fees airlines change are tax exempt?
Excellent Blog Dougfitz, looking forward to reading about your various adventures...Cheers...Specialy the Camino.I also understand this to be the general approach for tickets that aren't booked as fully flexible - a fee to make the changes and the fare difference. The specific rules for the different fare types should be explained to you when you make the booking, even if you are booking online and not through a travel agent. Tempting as it is to just click on the checkbox saying you have read through the terms and conditions, this is one time when it might be important to actually skim through the details.
They do provide the airports, the air traffic system, and the air safety monitoring.Most governments love attaching these fees to airline travel
Then they should let me sell it on eBay!!Or if the flight isn't very full the more likely that seat you just canceled will fly empty.
Yes, jirit, as incredible as it may be, these fees, in addition to ripping off the consumer, also rip off the public fisc:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/baggage-airline-fee-revenues-draw-tax-scrutiny-93073.html
Hi Laurie
I just read the article and it states that much of the extra fees charged by airlines are exempt from the 7.5 percent federal sales tax. The 7.5% sales tax is added only to the base ticket price but not to these additions charges.
So it is not a case of airlines earning additional income, that is tax free or tax excerpt, but more correctly a case whereby the government is not collecting additional sales taxes on these additional charges. Obviously these additional sales tax revenues would come from not the airlines but from the consumer themselves, in others words the flying public.
You could argue that the government is getting ripped off but many consumers would prefer that the government get ripped off instead of themselves having to pay even more taxes.
In the U.S., the government is "us" (for better or worse). If the tax on airline ticket fares is avoided, then it must be collected somewhere else to operate the air traffic control system and airports. The choice is between general taxation, taxation of the traveler, or reduced air traffic control, convenience, and safety. I don't find it realistic to expect the aviation system to appear for free. The baggage charge could be part of the ticket fare, but then it would be taxed. As a separate fee, it is avoiding taxation. It is not an accidental policy by the airlines. Even the donativo albergues need revenue, they just don't make it compulsory. I am not sure that the Federal Aviation Administration could successfully operate on donations. Perhaps Canada has a better idea.
Sufficient is enough. I want excellent oversight of airline safety and regulation compliance, a safe air traffic control system with well training and qualified personnel, and airports that are safe and convenient. It isn't cheap! Keep in mind that, at least in the U.S., there are thousands of airports with millions of flights, none of which has airline service and its revenue source for maintenance. The general aviation sector pays tiedown fees, fuel taxes, and occasionally landing fees (rarely). Part of the ticket tax maintains the rest of the system. Just as trucks pay a higher proportion of highway taxes than private vehicles, airlines collect a subsidy to maintain the aviation system in general. It has made the U.S. the envy of the rest of the world, where general aviation is stifled in many ways.Maybe that is enough do you think ?
None of this discussion answered the question directly. Firstly, as one response stated you can't buy your ticket for at least 6 to 12 months before your departure and return dates, that being said a lot of things could change between now and 2015. Secondly, assuming prices remain somewhat stable over the next few years I think it is safe to assume for planning purposes a round trip ticket from almost anywhere in the US to most destinations on Spain and France is going to cost between $1200 and $1500 and your best bet is to buy a round trip ticket and allow 45 days if you are planning on doing the entire 800km. Then do your planning for a bus or train from point A to point B to make it to and from your airport of choice. Personally I would be working on my daily itinerary on the Camino.
I agree with all your points except the last one.
Yes decide on when you want to fly to Europe and where and how you might get from there to where you wish to start, etc.
Ditto on the return trip.
Book a place for the first night and last night because you know where you are going to be given you have pre booked your flights
Yes allow 45 days for the camino Frances route from saint jean to Santiago - that seems reasonable
But do do not plan a daily itinerary.
By all means create a possible walking plan
But understand more than likely it will change the moment you step out the door and start walking.
You will learn quickly from walking the camino is that anything can happen and will happen and you will learn to go with the flow.
That is part of the camino experience.
Totally agree with you jirit, my point was meant to say spend some time over the next year studying the route and the place you want to visit. Some of my best days have been walking only 3 hours in the pouring rain waiting for the albergue to open while sharing beers and stories with fellow pilgrims waiting to "get dry" and some of my worse have been walking way to far to "reach some goal" and ending up in some awful dingy place for dinner and sleep. BTW, airfares below $1000 in my mind are a pipe dream!
I always look at total travel time and expense and compare it to the naked airfare. In most cases it is more efficient to pay a bit more in airfare and avoid the time in train stations and the expense of hotels in transit. The Washington, DC area lost direct service to Spain, when Iberia merged with British Airways. All flights go through London now, and often Chicago as well (which is backwards when traveling east). Heathrow is a blight, but has become a regular part of the route.There were also flights from DUS to Bilbao for about $75, but I didn't book them and the price soared to $400. I eventually bought tickets from DUS to Biarritz for $250 each. When we got to Germany, France was having a transportation strike (this happens every time I go to France). We were stuck in Germany for two nights and finally got a flight to Paris, then a bus to another airport and then a flight from Paris to Biarritz.
Sufficient is enough. I want excellent oversight of airline safety and regulation compliance, a safe air traffic control system with well training and qualified personnel, and airports that are safe and convenient. It isn't cheap! Keep in mind that, at least in the U.S., there are thousands of airports with millions of flights, none of which has airline service and its revenue source for maintenance. The general aviation sector pays tiedown fees, fuel taxes, and occasionally landing fees (rarely). Part of the ticket tax maintains the rest of the system. Just as trucks pay a higher proportion of highway taxes than private vehicles, airlines collect a subsidy to maintain the aviation system in general. It has made the U.S. the envy of the rest of the world, where general aviation is stifled in many ways.
We the people pay the entire bill. The question is how to collect the revenue to pay the bill. The current mix of fuel tax, high prices in airport stores, landing fees, ticket taxes, and airport parking charges spreads the pain. Airline safety in the U.S. has a superb record over the last decade, and I am happy to pay the taxes (except the TSA fee, which is a ripoff; lots of bureaucracy and very little increased safety).
Well said! There is no place not on a used car lot where you are more consistently lied to, although cell phone billing people are real close!...doesn't even pass the straight face test.
Here's a new offer pitched at the traveler who doesn't make it to elite status but travels fairly regularly. You can buy a "subscription" for anywhere between $200 and $500 a year and you will get access to priority boarding and preferred seating, well at least if there are seats available.
I agree. A domestic airline that I fly about once a month offers a "convenient money-saving pass" - 10 one-way flights to be used within a year. Compare this to the last five return flights I took, the "convenient" pass costs about 50% more.
I have read (travel experts and columnists) that the ideal time, pricewise, to buy international tickets is 80 days and domestic tickets 35 days before departure. (I know that these numbers are based on identifying the lowest point in the previous year). In any case, has anyone followed this advice, and for the super-travelers among us, what is your experience?
I know that airlines hire armies of young people to keep track of the demand and adjust the price. Believe it or not, a few years ago I met a recent college graduate who worked for US Airways and his only job was to keep on top of the flight from Pittsburgh to some European city. All day, every day, that was all he did. There were probably a few other job assignments but that was his main job. Multiply that by the number of airlines and their total number of flights and we have a lot of people working to do nothing other than to make sure that the price of every flight is always pitched at what they determine to be the perfect sweet spot. I´m not exactly sure this is a big contribution to our GNP.
Hi LaurieWell, of course, I should have known that they would have found a way to eliminate all those jobs. The only thing better than outsourcing is sourcing to a computer. Thanks for that update, jirit, it was a while ago that I met this guy, now that I think about it.
They still exist??give it to travel agent
Its probably a good idea to go to individual low cost carrier's own websites as well. The web version of the Matrix search engine didn't pick up easyJet or Ryanair when I tried to use it on routes that I know those two airlines service. It did seem to get most of the major airlines that I was expecting to see flying to Europe from Australia, but that was a quick visual check, and I wouldn't guarantee it being correct in detail. The prices are exactly the same for travel that my wife and I have booked for next year. This is a total price, including relevant taxes, but the site doesn't actually explain that.Check your flights here:
http://matrix.itasoftware.com
You are going to have an idea, what connections you have to get. Once you find what do you need, copy the information and give it to travel agent or buy directly from the airline
Yes, and certainly the one I use does quite a good job too when it comes to more complicated flight arrangements. She has saved me many thousands of dollars over using web booking engines for things like multi-city and open-jaw flight plans. I don't think you will save much using a travel agent for simple return flights - the web booking engines are just as good at that. I wouldn't use a web booking engine for more complicated travel without checking with my travel agent first, and she hasn't let me down yet.They still exist??
Absolutely. A good agent knows that the economic distance between point A and point B is not necessarily a straight line. The solution to the problem is to combine a good agent with one's travel expectations.I wouldn't use a web booking engine for more complicated travel without checking with my travel agent first,
Its probably a good idea to go to individual low cost carrier's own websites as well. The web version of the Matrix search engine didn't pick up easyJet or Ryanair when I tried to use it on routes that I know those two airlines service..
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