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And to our collective disgust/dislike/irrtation about it.In fact, if you enter 'graffiti', 'litter', or 'toilet paper' into the Forum search engine, you will find a large body of threads devoted to this sad practice.
I agree with all the above - but who chose to install the incongruous metal tableau in the first place?The stickers, while rude and pretty much just plain dumb, deteriorate and disappear. The actual painted/permanent marker graffiti is unfortunately there for years unless removed using solvents and cleaners, perhaps even at times sandblasted off.
If one looks at the graffiti from simply a technical point it is a criminal act. To paint/mark up somebody else's property (even public property) without permission is against the law. That being said I personally find it to be rude and childish and wonder about the mentality of someone who takes the extra step of carrying with them on the Camino paint, stickers or permanent markers just for that purpose. Really? Comically sad I think, and perhaps that need for attention could even be looked upon as psychological problems. I can honestly say seeing graffiti has never motivated me to continue walking the Camino, or to push on stronger. I do not need some childish loser with a can of black spray paint to motivate me. There's nothing profound in their ignorant scrawl. Hardly compares to ancient primitive cave art. Quite a stretch to try and find similarities there.
Then there's the issue of how it makes all pilgrims look to the locals. Makes us look bad, especially visitors to the country. Small percentage of rotten apples thank goodness.
I will never forget my disgust at seeing what graffiti vandals did upon reaching the top of Alto del Perdon. Ugh.
and yes, I really dislike the practice of leaving piles of poop and poop paper along the Way. Disgusting, but fortunately temporary.
View attachment 107307
Hard to spray paint a cow.There was such a stark difference between walking the Camino Primitivo where we saw no graffiti in 2019 and the Camino Frances where everything was plastered with it - at least between Melide and Santiago. Why anyone would come to the Camino armed with thick markers so that they could write meaningless things such as “I’m not lost; are you?” is beyond me.
I agree with all the above - but who chose to install the incongruous metal tableau in the first place?
I liked it. I’m really glad it wasn’t graffiti covered when I walked. Graffiti producers (they ARE NOT artists) should be really happy I never saw them when I walkedThe Surprising Story Behind the Sculpture on Alto del Perdón
Twelve kilometers after Pamplona, past the fields of grasses splashed with red poppies (or the fields of dry dirt, depending on the time of year), the crumbling monasteries, and the towering hay ba…www.google.com
I’m sorry, it was a rhetorical question and I didn’t make that clear. I see little merit in most graffiti, but not all sculpture is to my taste either and the CF is sufficiently theme-parked alreadyThe Surprising Story Behind the Sculpture on Alto del Perdón
Twelve kilometers after Pamplona, past the fields of grasses splashed with red poppies (or the fields of dry dirt, depending on the time of year), the crumbling monasteries, and the towering hay ba…www.google.com
I think sculpture speaks without words, and Mr Galbette depicted the history of the Camino beautifully (you did notice the figures changed from left to right at the time, right?), with more value than the nearby wind turbines, and neither statue nor turbines prevented getting a good view below. Graffiti is trash made by trash for trash. Sculpture is made for those who want to see a million words at once. my Camino would have been a barren place without it but I’m ok with us disagreeingI’m sorry, it was a rhetorical question and I didn’t make that clear. I see little merit in most graffiti, but not all sculpture is to my taste either and the CF is sufficiently theme-parked already
Good idea. Christine Monika, and Fred from France should be marched back with a scrub brush and soap, too.Graffiti, a means of communication by limited intellect for limited intellect. I longed to have a Tshirt for the last 100 km with a certain person’s name covered by a red circle slash. I imagined the police collecting him and marching him all the way back, with him carrying bucket, scrub brush and soap, to erase his stupid name from every marker. I think I could sell T shirts that have the word graffiti with a circle slash on the back, and perhaps “No TP left behind” on the front.
I agree, and in fact each time I saw one I took a picture just in case I needed a taxi a few miles down the road. I figured if they posted the notice they were OK with calls from pilgrims with terrible accents and only a vague idea where they were, and knew the Camino well enough to find me. I also never saw their numbers written on way markers just taped to a treeI find both graffiti and litter ugly and destructive and I have served as a ditch pig to try to clear up some of it. But I personally make one exception for this judgement: the small paper signs posted on trees or other places along camino routes providing taxi numbers for persons who wish, or need, a taxi in that locality. As a pilgrim who always walks alone, I consider this to be a type of public service announcement: "If you need me, I am here," There might have been similar notices posted in an albergue where I stayed, but I did not see them usually. A small notice of taxi service for a particular locality reassures me, and provides the offer of transport if I were unable to walk. I do not try to justify this in general: it just feels good to me to feel safe. And I know myself well enough to be sure that I would not call the emergency services for help except in a real crisis, and maybe past the point where I should have done so: a taxi is different, more approachable.
When I left the albergue in Granon, I took one of the yellow bags that read: “Fill your ‘Camino’ with experiences and free it from litter.” I thought: Why not? I was happy to do my part at cleaning up the Camino for a day or even a few hours. The only problem is that once I got started, I couldn’t stop and it was impossible to ignore. And there was a lot of garbage - some of it was too disgusting to pick up. This is why I prefer not to walk the Camino Frances any more. The Primitivo and del Norte are the roads less travelled and are cleaner.The stickers, while rude and pretty much just plain dumb, deteriorate and disappear. The actual painted/permanent marker graffiti is unfortunately there for years unless removed using solvents and cleaners, perhaps even at times sandblasted off.
If one looks at the graffiti from simply a technical point it is a criminal act. To paint/mark up somebody else's property (even public property) without permission is against the law. That being said I personally find it to be rude and childish and wonder about the mentality of someone who takes the extra step of carrying with them on the Camino paint, stickers or permanent markers just for that purpose. Really? Comically sad I think, and perhaps that need for attention could even be looked upon as psychological problems. I can honestly say seeing graffiti has never motivated me to continue walking the Camino, or to push on stronger. I do not need some childish loser with a can of black spray paint to motivate me. There's nothing profound in their ignorant scrawl. Hardly compares to ancient primitive cave art. Quite a stretch to try and find similarities there.
Then there's the issue of how it makes all pilgrims look to the locals. Makes us look bad, especially visitors to the country. Small percentage of rotten apples thank goodness.
I will never forget my disgust at seeing what graffiti vandals did upon reaching the top of Alto del Perdon. Ugh.
and yes, I really dislike the practice of leaving piles of poop and poop paper along the Way. Disgusting, but fortunately temporary.
View attachment 107307
Yes, everyone has different tastes in art, but without a doubt that pilgrim sculpture was erected on top of that hill with the permission of whatever or whomever owns or controls the property. Nobody snuck up there and anonymously built it. No laws were broken. Nobody damaged property not belonging to them. I'm not sure I see a comparison with that sculpture and say a Camino distance marker stone covered with spray paint graffiti.I’m sorry, it was a rhetorical question and I didn’t make that clear. I see little merit in most graffiti, but not all sculpture is to my taste either and the CF is sufficiently theme-parked already
In total agreement. I was astonished and disgusted by the amount of toilet paper! Dig a hole or carry a dog poop bag, please.And to our collective disgust/dislike/irrtation about it.
You are not alone, @Inoppy.
Warmly welcome.
Exactly.everyone has different tastes in art, but without a doubt that pilgrim sculpture was erected on top of that hill with the permission of whatever or whomever owns or controls the property. Nobody snuck up there and anonymously built it. No laws were broken. Nobody damaged property not belonging to them. I'm not sure I see a comparison with that sculpture and say a Camino distance marker stone covered with spray paint graffiti.
The graffiti uncovered under centuries of grime on a section of the wall of the cathedral in Seville if it hasn't been mentioned already, is an interesting example. Apparently written (not scrawled?) by medieval student graduates in bull's blood...As to graffiti throughout the ages mentioned in other posts? Usually you need to look for it with a magnifying glass and wouldn't know that it is there if your tour guide or your guidebook didn't tell you. It is rarely the kind of "in your face" graffiti everywhere as it is the case in our age of easy mass communication.
That's interesting and I didn't know about it. I tried to learn a bit more about it. Apparently it was something that started with the University of Salamanca and then spread to other university towns in Spain. Later than the Middle Ages.They are called Vítores or Victores in Spanish. Most of them are official but those on the walls of the Cathedral of Seville are considered as "signs of incivility today", I read in an article. I can't figure out how they were regarded at the time in the 19th century. Does anyone know?The graffiti uncovered under centuries of grime on a section of the wall of the cathedral in Seville if it hasn't been mentioned already, is an interesting example. Apparently written (not scrawled?) by medieval student graduates in bull's blood...
The graffiti uncovered under centuries of grime on a section of the wall of the cathedral in Seville if it hasn't been mentioned already, is an interesting example. Apparently written (not scrawled?) by medieval student graduates in bull's blood...
Fascinating question. I’m going to hit the archeology journals tomorrow to see if I can answer that!Yes, I remember being told that, and also that the use of bull's blood would have set them apart as scholars of financial means and of superior intellect (in their own mind's anyway). No doubt it was regarded by mere mortals at the time with the same horror and disgust that every defiled camino marker in galicia is today. Curious that it's cherished now!
I am curious about one other thing: Has the writing on the walls really endured the passage of time or was it enhanced or 'restored' since it's discovery? I seem to remember it looked very faded a few years ago..
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