- Time of past OR future Camino
- Too many and too often!
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My problem tooWe would love to walk any number of pilgrimage routes in the country I grew up in. But we are not obscenely rich.
An interesting article but I think the author misses a major point. Britain is a country where religion is in decline (and has been for decades) and a Pilgrimage is thought of as religious undertaking. i think we are at the point that as many people attend Mosque each week as Church.An article on the website of The Critic commenting on the current resurgence of interest in pilgrimage and some of the obstacles to the development of Camino-style supported pilgrimage routes in the UK.
The British pilgrimage problem | James Jeffrey | The Critic Magazine
Does the UK have a pilgrimage problem? As with most things vaguely religious, we Brits are surprisingly clumsy and prone to get flustered. Hence we miss opportunities, both economic and spiritual.thecritic.co.uk
There have been a number of tv, radio and newspaper pieces this week in the UK about pilgrimage - mostly tied-in with the new BBC series. Something that seems common to most that I've read/heard/seen lately is that increasingly people are approaching pilgrimage as a non-religious experience. Aware of its cultural and religious origins of course but feeling no need to identify with that personally. Of course that takes us straight back to the old chestnuts of what is a pilgrim? and what is pilgrimage? and I really do not want to go down that particular rabbit hole yet again!An interesting article but I think the author misses a major point. Britain is a country where religion is in decline (and has been for decades) and a Pilgrimage is thought of as religious undertaking.
The current series is the fifth one.The future of Pilgrimage in Britian is probably in the hands of the BBC who has just started their third series of Pilgrimage, this one covering the journey to Fatima.
Yes.... many of these British pilgrimages official websites have information about accommodation along the routes and although some have YHAs and other budget hostels, they don't cover the whole stretch! Scotland allows wild camping but errrr there are very few days in the year that I would like to do that I think.One word - accommodation.
The future of Pilgrimage in Britian is probably in the hands of the BBC who has just started their third series of Pilgrimage, this one covering the journey to Fatima.
Interesting piece, but I found my attention wandering elsewhere after I read the line 'on my first Camino I found myself surrounded by lesbian atheists'The British pilgrimage problem | James Jeffrey | The Critic Magazine
Does the UK have a pilgrimage problem? As with most things vaguely religious, we Brits are surprisingly clumsy and prone to get flustered. Hence we miss opportunities, both economic and spiritual.
Ok, thanks for sharing but do people find this funny? There are many groups walking on Camino who are not a random ”Camino family”: students from the same university and study subject; women from a housewives/homemakers association in Malaga (asociacion de amas de casa or something like that, Britain has something similar); members of a bowling club; and yes, lesbians - fwiw, there are tour operators who organise trips, open to all women btw and probably created as a protection against open and hidden discrimination when travelling; and groups of atheists although there I lack knowledge of whether they just happen to have found each other on the Camino or started out as a group.Interesting piece, but I found my attention wandering elsewhere after I read the line 'on my first Camino I found myself surrounded by lesbian atheists'
As you also pointed out most Brits no longer consider themselves religious in any active sense and so traditional Protestant views of such questions might not be much of an issue in the UK these days. I walked my own first Camino just after finishing a theology degree in a Scottish university - a course largely geared towards the training of candidates for ordained ministry in the Church of Scotland. Although as a Protestant pilgrim to Santiago I was far from unique I was still a rare enough species at the time to pique the interest of the cathedral priest in charge of welcoming pilgrims and handing out Compostelas. We spent twenty minutes or so in fairly deep theological discussion on pilgrimage and how it could be interpreted and practiced from a non-Catholic perspective.A lot of shrines and pilgrimage destinations in France and Spain are based on saint worshipping - Marian apparitions, bilocation of the Virgin Mary in Zaragoza, etc. And this kind of practice is viewed as idolatry and discouraged amongst Protestants, no?
Quote: "The good news for growing British pilgrimage, as the British Pilgrimage Trust notes, is that “much of the core infrastructure is already in place — off-road footpaths, under-used churches, pubs and village shops. We simply need to join the dots”An article on the website of The Critic commenting on the current resurgence of interest in pilgrimage and some of the obstacles to the development of Camino-style supported pilgrimage routes in the UK.
The British pilgrimage problem | James Jeffrey | The Critic Magazine
Does the UK have a pilgrimage problem? As with most things vaguely religious, we Brits are surprisingly clumsy and prone to get flustered. Hence we miss opportunities, both economic and spiritual.thecritic.co.uk
Interesting piece, but I found my attention wandering elsewhere after I read the line 'on my first Camino I found myself surrounded by lesbian atheists'
Was it being gay that was the issue or being an atheist?Ok, thanks for sharing but do people find this funny? There are many groups walking on Camino who are not a random ”Camino family”: students from the same university and study subject; women from a housewives/homemakers association in Malaga (asociacion de amas de casa or something like that, Britain has something similar); members of a bowling club; and yes, lesbians - fwiw, there are tour operators who organise trips, open to all women btw and probably created as a protection against open and hidden discrimination when travelling; and groups of atheists although there I lack knowledge of whether they just happen to have found each other on the Camino or started out as a group.
The point is of course that Camino pilgrimage is a special creature or creation because unlike other forms of travel known as pilgrimage it attracts an unusually broad spectrum of society and not only those of a specific faith or branch within a faith.
Sure! Sorry great thread!Can we keep to the point and not be distracted by off-hand remarks? Or else we will have to close what is an otherwise interesting thread.
Religion is in decline in Spain, too. Not to mention the fact that a great number of people walking a camino don't view it as a religious activity, but as a long affordable walk with many inner and outer benefits.Britain is a country where religion is in decline (and has been for decades) and a Pilgrimage is thought of as religious undertaking.
Camino pilgrimage is a special creature or creation because unlike other forms of travel known as pilgrimage it attracts an unusually broad spectrum of society and not only those of a specific faith or branch within a faith.
Lighter on the rucksack and much lighter on the bank balance too.
It is just a fact though, that it is cheaper to be on pilgrimage in Spain or Portugal.
Also warmer.
you choose a week's pilgrimage, equivalent to several in Spain or Portugal.
But cost, crowds and lack of infrastructure were issues
But do you have the infrastructure?We have quite a few pilgrimages in Scotland.
- St Cuthbert’s Way - Melrose to Lindisfarne
- St Magnus Way - Orkney
- St Oswald’s Way - Northumberland
- Fife Pilgrim Way - Culross to St Andrews
- Whithorn Way - Glasgow to Whithorn
- Forth to Farne Way - North Berwick to Lindisfarne
- St Munn’s Way - Cowal Peninsula Argyll
- St Kentigern Way (aka St Mungo) - Solway Firth to Glasgow
- Northern Pilgrims Way - Tain to Kirkwall
- Three Saints Way - Killin to Saint Andrews
- Deeside Way - Aberdeen to Ballater
- Dalriada Way - Tarbert to Luing
- Iona to Killin - to eventually connect Iona to St Andrews
I recently walked from my home in Suffolk to Walsingham - only around 100km. The whole enterprise cost me just shy of £400 for accommodation, evening meals, other food and transport back. Even if there had been 'sanctuary' churches on the route I took I doubt I'd have availed myself of them this time as it was a week of constant wet snow, sleet and blizzards and I'm now an old woman. The accommodation varied widely- one memorable and expensive place provided the very (very!) worst of British hotellerie. I agree with all the article says.One word - accommodation. Thanks to that wonderful British invention, the Ordnance Survey map (and that other wonderful British invention - the Right of Way) it is possible to walk between any two points in the United Kingdom with only the slightest possibility of getting lost. However, should you be so eccentric as to want to stay the night somewhere in a bed with a roof over your head you will have to fork out that traditional sum known as 'a king's ransom'. We would love to walk any number of pilgrimage routes in the country I grew up in. But we are not obscenely rich. Establish a refuge/hostel/budget accommodation system, and you are in business, but I can't discuss the improbability of that without getting a lot more political than a moderator should.
That's the big issue. It is fairly easy to find some points of religious and historical significance and draw a line on a map connecting them and give it a name. Not too expensive or time consuming to put up some signposts and print a few maps. There have been many such projects in recent years. But in practice they have largely relied on the existing accommodation options and in the UK that is usually expensive by comparison with Spain.But do you have the infrastructure?
There have been a few "sanctuary church" or "champing" schemes created recently. When you look more closely many are almost as expensive as a budget B&B.Even if there had been 'sanctuary' churches on the route I took I doubt I'd have availed myself of them this time as it was a week of constant wet snow, sleet and blizzards and I'm now an old woman.
I recently walked from my home in Suffolk to Walsingham - only around 100km. The whole enterprise cost me just shy of £400 for accommodation, evening meals, other food and transport back. Even if there had been 'sanctuary' churches on the route I took I doubt I'd have availed myself of them this time as it was a week of constant wet snow, sleet and blizzards and I'm now an old woman. The accommodation varied widely- one memorable and expensive place provided the very (very!) worst of British hotellerie. I agree with all the article says.
Do these pilgrimages have inexpensive accomodations like the albergues in Spain?We have quite a few pilgrimages in Scotland.
- St Cuthbert’s Way - Melrose to Lindisfarne
- St Magnus Way - Orkney
- St Oswald’s Way - Northumberland
- Fife Pilgrim Way - Culross to St Andrews
- Whithorn Way - Glasgow to Whithorn
- Forth to Farne Way - North Berwick to Lindisfarne
- St Munn’s Way - Cowal Peninsula Argyll
- St Kentigern Way (aka St Mungo) - Solway Firth to Glasgow
- Northern Pilgrims Way - Tain to Kirkwall
- Three Saints Way - Killin to Saint Andrews
- Deeside Way - Aberdeen to Ballater
- Dalriada Way - Tarbert to Luing
- Iona to Killin - to eventually connect Iona to St Andrews
I think one of the reasons for the remarkable success in recreating the Camino Frances in the 1980s was that no one actually expected it to pay for itself. I walked my first Camino in 1990. At that time the "infrastructure" was very low-key, modest, highly varied in style, and almost entirely voluntary. Mostly donativo. Provided by a mixed bag of churches, monasteries, local councils, confraternities, Amigos groups and a few generous individuals. Occasionally just floor space for a roll mat and sleeping bag in an otherwise empty building. Numbers walking then were extremely small by today's standards and no-one made a living from the Camino. In fact supporting it was a financial drain on many groups who provided their services as a charitable act. It was only after pilgrim numbers reached a critical mass over a number of years that private commercial albergues and other pilgrim services would become viable. I do not believe that that there is a sufficiently altruistic momentum to create a similar dedicated low-cost pilgrim infrastructure in the UK or enough individuals or businesses willing to gamble on the future profitability of such a project. For that matter I am not entirely convinced that if Don Elias was starting from scratch today that he would receive the same generous disinterested support in Spain that he found in the 1980s. Times have changed and especially relationships between wider society and religion - both in the UK and in Spain.Having walked the St James Way from Southampton to Reading, I can tell you that the lack of affordable accommodations is the key deterrent to popularizing these routes. Finding sub-50£ rooms was very difficult.
Why "should" we be doing this? What do you want to achieve?Perhaps we should encourage the BBC to do more of their Pilgrimage series in the British Isles!...
If there is a concerted effort then I'm sure it is doable...
And then maybe us here too, in an English-speaking forum, we should be promoting our own pilgrimages?
No, they certainly do not, there will be hostels on some routes but you would have to use B+Bs or hotels which are not cheap or maybe even couch surfing could be a possibility and wild camping is okay in Scotland. I would like it if there was!Do these pilgrimages have inexpensive accomodations like the albergues in Spain?
One very important difference from the rest of the UK. Also quite legal and accepted in Sweden and Norway which goes a long way towards making the St Olav routes to Trondheim more affordable. If you think that UK prices are high then try Norway for a fortnight!and wild camping is okay in Scotland.
Probably not enough and it isn't great when the society's are trying to promote the pilgrimages you can learn more if you search for "The way of St Andrews"But do you have the infrastructure?
But do you have the infrastructure?
Also, the North Wales Pilgrimage, from Holywell to Bardsey Island.We have quite a few pilgrimages in Scotland.
- St Cuthbert’s Way - Melrose to Lindisfarne
- St Magnus Way - Orkney
- St Oswald’s Way - Northumberland
- Fife Pilgrim Way - Culross to St Andrews
- Whithorn Way - Glasgow to Whithorn
- Forth to Farne Way - North Berwick to Lindisfarne
- St Munn’s Way - Cowal Peninsula Argyll
- St Kentigern Way (aka St Mungo) - Solway Firth to Glasgow
- Northern Pilgrims Way - Tain to Kirkwall
- Three Saints Way - Killin to Saint Andrews
- Deeside Way - Aberdeen to Ballater
- Dalriada Way - Tarbert to Luing
- Iona to Killin - to eventually connect Iona to St Andrews
Been there, done that - though the other way around!Also, the North Wales Pilgrimage, from Holywell to Bardsey Island.
I do not believe that that there is a sufficiently altruistic momentum to create a similar dedicated low-cost pilgrim infrastructure in the UK or enough individuals or businesses willing to gamble on the future profitability of such a project. For that matter I am not entirely convinced that if Don Elias was starting from scratch today that he would receive the same generous disinterested support in Spain that he found in the 1980s
Yes, that's even a problem with the Thames tow path. One guide suggested staying at the Great House in Sonning - cost = from £115 - £130 a night.One word - accommodation. Thanks to that wonderful British invention, the Ordnance Survey map (and that other wonderful British invention - the Right of Way) it is possible to walk between any two points in the United Kingdom with only the slightest possibility of getting lost. However, should you be so eccentric as to want to stay the night somewhere in a bed with a roof over your head you will have to fork out that traditional sum known as 'a king's ransom'. We would love to walk any number of pilgrimage routes in the country I grew up in. But we are not obscenely rich. Establish a refuge/hostel/budget accommodation system, and you are in business, but I can't discuss the improbability of that without getting a lot more political than a moderator should.
Yes Travelodge and Premier Inn are probably the best ‘go to’ budgetish beand for hotels in UK. Still a few decent rates around though definitely a lot scarcer. Doesn’t feel quite right but we have for the most part a pretty good rail system so you can maybe have a base and get train to your start point each day!I had some success with the Travelodge brand when I walked Reading to London on the Thames Path with some rooms under 50£ - not cheap, but better than the alternatives
Yes, as a kid in 70s Britain, Easter was chocolate eggs and no visit to that old building they call Church.An interesting article but I think the author misses a major point. Britain is a country where religion is in decline (and has been for decades) and a Pilgrimage is thought of as religious undertaking. i think we are at the point that as many people attend Mosque each week as Church.
As an English pilgrim it is normal for me to be the only English person in the albergue. I realised this on my first pilgrimage when in Padron I raised a toast to the seven Germans I was dining with, thanking them for all speaking English. The same effect is happening in Ireland. My wife is from Dublin and her mother went on a number of pilgrimages organised by the local priest. On one memorable occasion returning from Lourdes with a walking stick having slipped on the steps at the shrine.
Her grandchildren are now starting families of their own and not one of them bothered to get marride before having a child.
The future of Pilgrimage in Britian is probably in the hands of the BBC who has just started their third series of Pilgrimage, this one covering the journey to Fatima.
There have been a few "sanctuary church" or "champing" schemes created recently. When you look more closely many are almost as expensive as a budget B&B.
Well, you have nailed the problem. It applies to many large cities, and often the only way to get a half way reasonable price is to book a long time in advance. I'm shortly leaving to cycle from Shropshire to central France, using for a good part of the journey the Avenue Verte from London to Paris. Except that I will bypass London because all the Youth hostels (YHA and private) need advance booking and there isn't anything else I can afford. I can find plenty of dorms in Paris that I can book a couple of days in advance, and at a bearable price. For the rest, I camp.Funny you should mention the YHA! There’s a great one still alive and nicely kept that I stayed at in London (Earls Ct) while completing my St James Camino from Southampton. 45£ a night for a top bunk in a room with 7 beds, though that price varies every night (20£-100£+!!!!) depending upon demand. Lovely lounge, free laundry, large outdoor terrace. It’s a great concept, but hardly affordable for an extended stay.
The massive turning point that boosted the growth of the Camino Frances was the 1993 Holy Year. Some bright sparks in the Galician provincial government saw the Camino's potential to raise the profile of the region and bring in tourists (both domestic and international). So there was a massive capital investment to build the first chain of purpose-built albergues. Up to that point accommodation was very small-scale and haphazard and provided by a mix of groups. The 1993 Holy Year was a massive success with 10x the numbers in 1992. From then on the development of the Caminos within Galicia has been much more of a government project than a voluntary or religious one. A difference that walkers today can see from O Cebreiro onwards. And the results of that initial investment have been huge. The Xunta intend to spend 141 million euros in preparation for the 2027 Holy Year.One of my "if I win the lottery" dreams is buying a bunch of old buildings along the Coast to Coast or another route to turn them into hostel/bunkhouse/albergue type place places just to make that possible, given that none of the levels of government in Britain seem interested in doing that in the way Spanish ones are.
I did John O'Groats to Land's End in 2006, and there was still a great network of hostels in Scotland then, but once I crossed the border it got harder and harder to find hostels as I got further south. This was also the year the YHA announced they were selling off a lot of the smaller rural ones which made it impossible to walk the Pennine Way staying at hostels.( I think the last one I stayed at on that walk was Hartington Hall in Staffordshire)English ambulants of a certain age will recall the YHA hostels that provided basic dormitory accommodation, warm water (occasionally) and a fry-up breakfast of variable quality. The network crumbled and shrank as planning regulations, the safety Elfs, “customer” demand for hot water and a resistance to make any contribution other than your £6 a year became too much for many a warden and many a hut or ex-military shed.
The passion that created and ran that network dissipated. What is left provides frivolous accommodation for the adventurous middle classes and a few puzzled European youth.
I still live in hope (no not that little village in Derbyshire), real hope that we can create a network of sheds, huts, spare rooms, “casa de acogida”, that will open a pilgrim network in the UK but I don’t expect to see it. It took more than 40 years for the work of Don Elias to create the current Camino. I think he would face a greater challenge here
I suspect that you are looking at the avatar that appears beside the blank "new post" box. It is always blank under the photo while you are composing your text. Once you have hit "Post reply", you will see the usual information under the avatar. Look at your post (above) now.I see all my information in my avatar has disappeared, so it must be time for me to make another donation and reactivate it all.
I have visited Iona twice and also walked the Frances and part of the Norte so would beg to differ with this assessement. Although many of the people visiting Iona are tourists, many are Christian pilgrims who come for a variety of reasons. It really is a special place, on par IMHO but of course on a much smaller scale than Santiago. The key thing is although it is definitely a pilgrimage destination, with many sacred sites on the island itself, all walkable, there is no official walking path that I am aware of to get there, even to Fionnphort on Mull, where one takes the final 7" ferry . Both times I took a train from Glasgow to Oban, a ferry from Oban to Mull, a bus to Fionnphort on the west coast of Mull, and another ferry to land on Iona. We thought it would be amazing to walk across Mull to reach that final ferry to Iona. Maybe someone has done it?Besides cost a real negative is that there is no iconic destination, no disrespect to "Our Lady of Walsingham". There is no comparison to Santiago, Roma, Fatima, etc in the UK.
Thanks for this reply, I was focusing on "scale", but in a way less visited pilgrimage destinations may feel less touristyI have visited Iona twice and also walked the Frances and part of the Norte so would beg to differ with this assessement. Although many of the people visiting Iona are tourists, many are Christian pilgrims who come for a variety of reasons. It really is a special place, on par IMHO but of course on a much smaller scale than Santiago. The key thing is although it is definitely a pilgrimage destination, with many sacred sites on the island itself, all walkable, there is no official walking path that I am aware of to get there, even to Fionnphort on Mull, where one takes the final 7" ferry . Both times I took a train from Glasgow to Oban, a ferry from Oban to Mull, a bus to Fionnphort on the west coast of Mull, and another ferry to land on Iona. We thought it would be amazing to walk across Mull to reach that final ferry to Iona. Maybe someone has done it?
Canterbury?Besides cost a real negative is that there is no iconic destination, no disrespect to "Our Lady of Walsingham". There is no comparison to Santiago, Roma, Fatima, etc in the UK.
There are guide books for the long distance national trails. Though these are not pilgrimage routes in origin. The national trails do not generally have very much by way of low cost accommodation either. These are some hostels and bunkhouses on some routes but not enough to walk the routes with convenient daily stages.Are there specific guide books/apps for long distance trails?
I wonder if Britain had the same religious vibe that Spain, Portugal and Italy have I think that there is a good chance Canterbury could be comparable, hypothetical I know.Canterbury?
How about you? With a large scale map, or a suitable app on PC or phone, you could create a route and write a short guide. No need to put it on paper, a pdf file would be fine, and a .gpx for the route. No need for a mass of information, route and places to stay would be helpful to future pilgrims.I have visited Iona twice and also walked the Frances and part of the Norte so would beg to differ with this assessement. Although many of the people visiting Iona are tourists, many are Christian pilgrims who come for a variety of reasons. It really is a special place, on par IMHO but of course on a much smaller scale than Santiago. The key thing is although it is definitely a pilgrimage destination, with many sacred sites on the island itself, all walkable, there is no official walking path that I am aware of to get there, even to Fionnphort on Mull, where one takes the final 7" ferry . Both times I took a train from Glasgow to Oban, a ferry from Oban to Mull, a bus to Fionnphort on the west coast of Mull, and another ferry to land on Iona. We thought it would be amazing to walk across Mull to reach that final ferry to Iona. Maybe someone has done it?
It's recent, as far as pilgrimages go. Though earlier than Lourdes, which is massively popular.Canterbury?
I was being slightly facetious in mentioning Canterbury, but I think if there ever was to be a British equivalent of the Camino (at least in religious terms) it would be the logical end point, both in terms of significance as a destination and having the potential to deal with the logistics of large numbers of people passing through there. (Not to repeat earlier posts in too much detail, the problem is accommodation along the way there...)Britain did have that same religious vibe…until Henry VIII seized all the churches, closed the monasteries, started his own church, and so on. Now those ruins exist, the churches are open (some as CofE houses of worship but many converted into other uses), and the “pilgrims” come by bus for a tour, tea, and a photo before motoring onto the next tour stop. Catholic Mass exists here and there and Anglican services are very similar, but both are usually disturbed by folks wandering around on the periphery taking photos and “whispering” louder than the congregation’s muted singing. It’s hard to focus on prayer when you are in a fishbowl and watched like an animal in the zoo.
In Canterbury last month, both the rowboat tour guide and the desk attendant at the ancient pilgrim hospital (now an almshouse) were surprised that donativo albergues in the traditional pilgrim sense were still operating on holy routes in Spain.
So if you go, expect tours and expect crowds, but don’t be surprised if the fervor of a pilgrimage destination is hard to find at these spots.
@Nick Barlow, you and also @Silencio Por Favor raise a point that I think may be a factor when it comes to the "British pilgrimage problem".And the idea of the pilgrimage to Canterbury is quite strong in English culture because of Chaucer and the Canterbury Tales, but it's normally always presented as something from the past, not a modern thing.
A short article by Ellen Teague in the Easter edition of the Tablet signals a website (pilgrimways.org.uk) mapping 22 pilgrimages in England and Wales. The site provides walking guides, gpx files among other resources, including a downloadable pilgrim passport and a certificate for the end of the walk.An article on the website of The Critic commenting on the current resurgence of interest in pilgrimage and some of the obstacles to the development of Camino-style supported pilgrimage routes in the UK.
The British pilgrimage problem | James Jeffrey | The Critic Magazine
Does the UK have a pilgrimage problem? As with most things vaguely religious, we Brits are surprisingly clumsy and prone to get flustered. Hence we miss opportunities, both economic and spiritual.thecritic.co.uk
That's a really interesting question, and I suspect my answer here won't have the depth a response to it deserves - but I fly out to Oviedo tomorrow morning, so if I don't give a rough answer now, there won't be one at all.But what is the status of pilgrimage in the public's mind as one's own's country's living tradition?
Yeap, this is the reason we have lost centuries of "pilgrimage culture" which now the British Pilgrimage Trust is trying to revive, as per the original article.Britain did have that same religious vibe…until Henry VIII seized all the churches, closed the monasteries, started his own church, and so on.
Does Britain have anything on a similar scale? How many Marian pilgrimage sites, small or big, are there in Britain, compared to these countries? Tiny chapels and old wayward shrines*) in the form of a cross similar to the ones we see in Galicia? Relics that are still kept in churches and shown, even venerated, instead of on display in museums, compared to these countries?
Yes, carrying a tent and camping - wild or at campsites - is an option and people do this as they have always done. But when asking why the Caminos are so popular and the long distance trails in Britain are not on the same level of success even when one can fashion them into a pilgrimage trail … the answer is that camping does not have the broad appeal that staying in albergues has, in addition to the knowledge that there is always likely to be an albergue whereever one wants to stop and it is cheap to spend the night there - whether donativo, municipial, parochial or privately run.camping the first 3 days and then staying in a pub inn on the 4th day
Good points - the right of way issues in the UK or is it only in England? And also the status of “rambling”. Just my gut feeling but I think it is not, or at least was not, the same as “Wandern” in Germany and Austria and “Randonner” in France where these activities have become broadly accepted and even trendy leisure sports activities - and for many decades already. I still remember the reactions of my future English in-laws (who were not “snobs” in any way): rambling, so my impression at the time, was not something that one does ….That then links in there being a quite strong working-class element to rambling as an organised pursuit (the key event in British walking over the past century is probably the Kinder Scout mass trespass) and it was the idea of creating leisure opportunities for the working class that led to the development of things like the Pennine Way.
I do hope you find the time and maybe even share some of this history here but more important right now: Buen Camino!I'd be interested (if I ever find the time) to go delving back into the history of walking and rambling in this country
The right of way business is very different in Scotland from the rest of the UK. In Scotland there is a default right of access to most unenclosed land provided one follows the Scottish Outdoor Access Code. That includes a right to camp overnight in many places. Very unlike England and Wales where you can only assume that access is allowed on specific rights of way and camping overnight is not permitted.Good points - the right of way issues in the UK or is it only in England? And also the status of “rambling”.
A journalist friend of mine was invited on a similar organised visit to Norway quite recently aimed at promoting the St Olav ways.and a young US journalist (and presumably not just her) was invited by Tourist Office of Spain to write about "a new adventure tourism destination in northern Spain, the Camino de Santiago." They offered a week of expenses-paid, four-star travel from Roncesvalles to Compostela. She later moved to Spain and became a mover and shaker in all things Camino.
Good idea! I just need to be retired. Ha!How about you? With a large scale map, or a suitable app on PC or phone, you could create a route and write a short guide. No need to put it on paper, a pdf file would be fine, and a .gpx for the route. No need for a mass of information, route and places to stay would be helpful to future pilgrims.
@Kathar1na Thank you for being a contributing member of this forum.Apart from the weather, the high cost of accommodation, the lack of an uninterrupted pilgrimage tradition that is still alive and with which large parts of the population are familiar even when they don’t practice it
You've hit the nail on the head, dick bird. I have to travel from the US and doing the-tent-and-sleeping-bag-and-pad-and-heaven-forbid-a-camp-stove thing is impossible for me, who only takes my small backpack as carry-on.One word - accommodation. Thanks to that wonderful British invention, the Ordnance Survey map (and that other wonderful British invention - the Right of Way) it is possible to walk between any two points in the United Kingdom with only the slightest possibility of getting lost. However, should you be so eccentric as to want to stay the night somewhere in a bed with a roof over your head you will have to fork out that traditional sum known as 'a king's ransom'. We would love to walk any number of pilgrimage routes in the country I grew up in. But we are not obscenely rich. Establish a refuge/hostel/budget accommodation system, and you are in business, but I can't discuss the improbability of that without getting a lot more political than a moderator should.
Yea I agree totally will all that ! Especially RMB spend in London!An interesting thread.
I think it boils down to weather and economics as to why long-distance pilgrimage routes are unlikely (although not impossible) in the UK. Perhaps shorter routes, such as to Canterbury could be developed and promoted.
There are still many popular long-distance walking/cycling routes, as other posters in this thread have highlighted, such as the Coast-to-Coast, Land’s End to John O’ Groats and the Penine Way, among others.
I don't think that there is the same problem with isolated rural locations becoming ghost towns with mass exodus to cities, such as in other European countries, that could be rejuvenated with pilgrimage/religous routes. Improving local services such as public transport would likely be better value for money.
The UK is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe. Whilst absolute tourist numbers to France and Spain may be higher for example, probably more pounds, euros, dollars, RMB etc are spent per visit in the UK visiting more expensive hotspots, such as London.
Anecdotally, most national parks and tourist destinations, across the country from the cities and national parks in Scotland, down to the Lake District in the north of England, Snowdonia in Wales, and Cornwall in the south seem to be fully heaving on the first sign of sunshine at the weekend. With both local and international tourists.
The UK is a fabulous place to take a weekend away or visit the myriad historical attractions, but the style of Camino as in the Iberian Peninsula probably does not stack up.
Even if a host wanted to establish a hostel or ‘albergue’ in this country, it would probably be rejected for planning permission. It is an ongoing problem when there are chronic housing shortages caused by NIMBY ‘not in my back yard’ sentiment.
A B&B, hotel or Airbnb would be more viable as a business that doesn't go under within a couple of years or less. Although many still do - it's a risky undertaking.
On a personal level, I have walked three Caminos in Spain and Portugal with my partner, and we thoroughly enjoyed the sunshine, beautiful scenery, cuisine, and friendships with fellow travellers from across the world on the way.
Looking forward to the next adventure when we can get the time to go away again – perhaps the Primitivo, Del Norte or even to Fatima!
Steady there! You may WANT Northumberland but it is not yours-yet!We have quite a few pilgrimages in Scotland.
- St Cuthbert’s Way - Melrose to Lindisfarne
- St Magnus Way - Orkney
- St Oswald’s Way - Northumberland
- Fife Pilgrim Way - Culross to St Andrews
- Whithorn Way - Glasgow to Whithorn
- Forth to Farne Way - North Berwick to Lindisfarne
- St Munn’s Way - Cowal Peninsula Argyll
- St Kentigern Way (aka St Mungo) - Solway Firth to Glasgow
- Northern Pilgrims Way - Tain to Kirkwall
- Three Saints Way - Killin to Saint Andrews
- Deeside Way - Aberdeen to Ballater
- Dalriada Way - Tarbert to Luing
- Iona to Killin - to eventually connect Iona to St Andrews
and even trendy leisure sports activities - and for many decades already. I still remember the reactions of my future English in-laws (who were not “snobs” in any way): rambling, so my impression at the time, was not something that one does ….
I am currently on the Camino Portuguese and would update my earlier comments with some feedback from a very non scientific survey.There have been a number of tv, radio and newspaper pieces this week in the UK about pilgrimage - mostly tied-in with the new BBC series. Something that seems common to most that I've read/heard/seen lately is that increasingly people are approaching pilgrimage as a non-religious experience. Aware of its cultural and religious origins of course but feeling no need to identify with that personally. Of course that takes us straight back to the old chestnuts of what is a pilgrim? and what is pilgrimage? and I really do not want to go down that particular rabbit hole yet again!
The current series is the fifth one.
The series has certainly prompted a spate of comment in the past few days and no doubt will keep it up for a couple more weeks. But the growth in interest in pilgrimage here in the UK goes back long before the BBC started sending celebrities off to foreign parts and has deeper roots to sustain it. The revival of the Caminos has been a driver for massive investment and participation in pilgrimage routes all over Europe and beyond.
That is true to a degree... however, looking at this sign announcing the start of the St James Way from Reading to Southampton... I'd say the destination is quite iconic! There are 420 waymarkers along the route that say the same thing.Besides cost a real negative is that there is no iconic destination, no disrespect to "Our Lady of Walsingham". There is no comparison to Santiago, Roma, Fatima, etc in the UK.
Nice to see, to be honest I have not lived in the UK for almost 20 years so it is good to read positive albeit minor news from the homeland. ThanksThat is true to a degree... however, looking at this sign announcing the start of the St James Way from Reading to Southampton... I'd say the destination is quite iconic! There are 420 waymarkers along the route that say the same thing. View attachment 145597
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