Love4Adventure
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- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Portugues (June-July 2018)
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Or could it be that we are getting better at warning about it and reporting it? This happened to me on my very first camino in 2009 but I never told anyone. I was with a friend and we laughed it off - there were so many other and better experiences to focus on. I have since had it happen again when I was on my own and it felt more worrying. I have walked a good few short and long caminos and have had men expose themselves and perform sexual acts on themselves three times in total, which is obviously three times too many, I just wonder if the activity is constant and the reporting has improved? Or maybe that is wishful thinking?
I walked between Santarem and Porto last Oct, started alone first and felt safe walking alone there, then met some people on the way and eventually we formed a Camino family consisting of 4 people, including a local Portugues guy. He explained a lot about Portugal on the way and he said that Agueda and the area around it used to be famous for all kinds of shady and dark activities in the past, mainly connected with drugs. Now they've cleaned up the town but I guess the residue may still be there, you can't get rid of all the perverts at once. Regarding the police saying that it's dangerous for women to walk solo - that's also a typical Portugues thing, not necessarily connected to gender. In thier culture It's considered that if you are walking alone it means you have no friends who can walk with you so they take pity on you. As a nation they do everything in groups, and still plenty of Portugues think that doing smth alone is impossible, dangerous or lonely.This happened several km before Águeda, in an area where I could not have quickly found help if needed (I presume he picked the rather isolated area on purpose). When I went to the police to report the incident, they did not seem at all surprised and they conveyed that it was dangerous for women to walk solo. (They were very kind and sympathetic, but their response made me understand this type of incident is becoming increasingly common.)
When do you start your walk?I am in Portugal right now to visit friends. When I told them my plans to solo they all (woman) said no, I should not. Then they said their country was of course “very safe” and by end of talk they were supportive and thought me brave and strong. It is just not a normal kind of thing to do - to be a woman and do something alone. They asked me who I would talk to, that was their fear - not violence!!
I hope to walk it next April.That is scary as I want to do Camino Portugues coastal
I loved Portugal, the solitude, the beautiful scenery and the kind people I occasionally met on the road. Yet, I also found some sections quite creepy - can't remember quite where though. The scariest moment was, when I was sheltering under a tree from the rain, and a van stopped near me and the driver yelled at me to get in. I realised soon after that I had been mistaken for a prostitute, like those immigrant women who were sitting at various intervals along the road. I also had to step around used condoms and soiled underwear on deserted forest paths. Very sad, and I prayed not only for my own safety, but also the poor immigrant prostitutes I passed on the road.
I suspect that this is not a case of several individual women who chose to do this of their own free will. In case of immigrants, possibly illegal immigrants but not only immigrants, a criminal network is probably behind this.Driving down the Portuguese Coast we are seeing lots of women (some quite old) sitting on chairs at the start of forest roads waiting (we now know for clients) and this must be why there is a problem with this unsavoury behaviour of harassing lone female pilgrims. Be careful out there if you are a lone female and be pro active in protecting yourselves as you walk through these regions.
Foreign women and children, mostly from Africa and Eastern Europe, and Portuguese women and children are subjected to sex trafficking within the country. Portuguese victims have also been subjected to sex trafficking in other countries, mostly in Europe. Children from Eastern Europe, including those of Roma descent, are subjected to forced begging and forced criminal activity in Portugal. Organized criminal networks operate trafficking rings in the country; some recruit victims abroad to exploit in Portugal, while others recruit domestically to exploit both within Portugal and abroad. Authorities report traffickers bring women and children, many from West Africa, to Portugal to claim asylum and obtain false documents before bringing them to other European countries to be exploited in sex trafficking.
I am sorry to hear of your unpleasant experience. Last September I was walking from Aqueda to Albergaria A-Velha. After Serem de Cina there is a 3.1km stretch or eucalyptis forest (signposted). A small white vehicle was sitting close to the entrance. I certainly felt uneasy as there was nobody around. I walked 200m into the forest when I heard the vehicle driving into the beginning of the track. Turned around and went back out to the road, the driver left quickly. I waited by the road for half an hour. No pilgrims came along. Thought I was safe after such a long wait and walked back into the forest. About 1km in the white van came back. He drove at my walking pace, looking at me. for a short while. Never said a word. I turned and ran out of the forest. It seemed a long way. He continued on and around the corner, out of sight. Eventually, back at the road, another couple came along and I walked with them. The white van & driver were sitting at about the 2km into the forest and drove off in the other direction when he saw the three of us. I spoke to theI started my Camino in Coimbra, and on the 2nd day had an incident where a man was parked along the side of the road, along the route, just waiting for a female pilgrim to walk by. He wanted me to masturbate him; thankfully he did not pursue or physically threaten me when I said no and walked away. This happened several km before Águeda, in an area where I could not have quickly found help if needed (I presume he picked the rather isolated area on purpose). When I went to the police to report the incident, they did not seem at all surprised and they conveyed that it was dangerous for women to walk solo. (They were very kind and sympathetic, but their response made me understand this type of incident is becoming increasingly common.) I no longer felt comfortable walking alone (until I was quite north of Porto) and joined a few people I had met the night before. They told me a girl they were previously walking with had a similar incident, but the man was much more aggressive and tried to physically force her into his truck. She was rescued by a fellow male pilgrim who happened to come across her.
After my experience, and learning of hers just a few days before, I would advise women NOT to walk the Camino Portuguese (south of Porto) solo. It just isn’t safe and it’s not worth the risk.
Be safe out there!
I would say, yes. I would say that of any of the routes. That is if what you mean by safe, is safe from being the victim of a sexual assault or physical attack of some sort. Also I am assuming the solo man in question is fit and capable of taking care of themselves.Is it safe for a solo man?
Is it safe for a solo man?
Heard of 2 experiences like this on last year's CdP. It seems to happen only in Portugal. I agree that for this route, women should not walk alone.I started my Camino in Coimbra, and on the 2nd day had an incident where a man was parked along the side of the road, along the route, just waiting for a female pilgrim to walk by. He wanted me to masturbate him; thankfully he did not pursue or physically threaten me when I said no and walked away. This happened several km before Águeda, in an area where I could not have quickly found help if needed (I presume he picked the rather isolated area on purpose). When I went to the police to report the incident, they did not seem at all surprised and they conveyed that it was dangerous for women to walk solo. (They were very kind and sympathetic, but their response made me understand this type of incident is becoming increasingly common.) I no longer felt comfortable walking alone (until I was quite north of Porto) and joined a few people I had met the night before. They told me a girl they were previously walking with had a similar incident, but the man was much more aggressive and tried to physically force her into his truck. She was rescued by a fellow male pilgrim who happened to come across her.
After my experience, and learning of hers just a few days before, I would advise women NOT to walk the Camino Portuguese (south of Porto) solo. It just isn’t safe and it’s not worth the risk.
Be safe out there!
Sorry, I have to jump in to say it absolutely doesn’t “happen only in Portugal.” I have been flashed about five times and groped once, all in Spain, all on the Camino Francés. I have also walked from Lisbon alone and had nothing happen. I am not saying that nothing ever happens in Portugal, but I think it is wrong to characterize the risks in Portugal as somehow greater than the risks in Spain. Women walking alone on any Camino should be alert and aware that there are perverts everywhere in the world, but I don’t think the border between Spain and Portugal marks a delineation between perverts and no perverts.Heard of 2 experiences like this on last year's CdP. It seems to happen only in Portugal. I agree that for this route, women should not walk alone.
Sorry, I have to jump in to say it absolutely doesn’t “happen only in Portugal.” I have been flashed about five times and groped once, all in Spain, all on the Camino Francés. I have also walked from Lisbon alone and had nothing happen. I am not saying that nothing ever happens in Portugal, but I think it is wrong to characterize the risks in Portugal as somehow greater than the risks in Spain. Women walking alone on any Camino should be alert and aware that there are perverts everywhere in the world, but I don’t think the border between Spain and Portugal marks a delineation between perverts and no perverts.
...even as the number and scope of such offences (e.g., marital rape, so-called date rape, and male rape) has expanded.
Heard of 2 experiences like this on last year's CdP. It seems to happen only in Portugal. I agree that for this route, women should not walk alone.
In your professional opinion or the collective opinion of your peers what reaction for women to exhibitionism is most appropriate? The point and laugh reaction often mentioned seems to me not only to be unsafe but even if it does work may lead to humiliation that could cause a violent attack in a future incident.It's very hard to say. This is something concerning which I have a certain amount of knowledge in my professional capacity -- and a certain amount of experiential knowledge from a younger stage of my life.
But, even if that's the case, hopefully there's a growing awareness of the situation. Someone should alert pertinent government officials that their area's getting a bad reputation. Then there might be more action.The man now denounced has other records for crimes of sexual abuse and had already been denounced for an administrative infraction of the Law on the projection of citizen security, for which the defendant faces an economic sanction that may vary between 100 and 600 euros fine for these events.
The point and laugh reaction often mentioned seems to me not only to be unsafe but even if it does work may lead to humiliation that could cause a violent attack in a future incident.
See my response above.The OP was told by the police that it was not safe for women to walk alone. Now I wonder why women should report every incident on a Camino to the police but apparently ignore the advice that the same police gives them.
Good news, thank you, L.
That could actually be quite a deterrent: that's no small amount of money, especially if you don't have it.
One question that came up reading that article in Google translate: it sounds like the fine was not for the flashing but for previous offenses. Is that what you read in the original or is this a translation thing?
But, even if that's the case, hopefully there's a growing awareness of the situation. Someone should alert pertinent government officials that their area's getting a bad reputation. Then there might be more action.
I am really sorry to hear about this frightening incident. I have just returned from working in the Pilgrims Office in Santiago, and there was a very similar incident last week. I really believe that anyone whatever their gender should be able to walk on the camino without fear. However there are some sexually inadequate men out there that mean women are particular targets. It's wrong that this happens, however that sadly is the reality.I started my Camino in Coimbra, and on the 2nd day had an incident where a man was parked along the side of the road, along the route, just waiting for a female pilgrim to walk by. He wanted me to masturbate him; thankfully he did not pursue or physically threaten me when I said no and walked away. This happened several km before Águeda, in an area where I could not have quickly found help if needed (I presume he picked the rather isolated area on purpose). When I went to the police to report the incident, they did not seem at all surprised and they conveyed that it was dangerous for women to walk solo. (They were very kind and sympathetic, but their response made me understand this type of incident is becoming increasingly common.) I no longer felt comfortable walking alone (until I was quite north of Porto) and joined a few people I had met the night before. They told me a girl they were previously walking with had a similar incident, but the man was much more aggressive and tried to physically force her into his truck. She was rescued by a fellow male pilgrim who happened to come across her.
After my experience, and learning of hers just a few days before, I would advise women NOT to walk the Camino Portuguese (south of Porto) solo. It just isn’t safe and it’s not worth the risk.
Be safe out there!
I agree with this suggestion, as I am sick and tired of the age old advice of women needing to change behavior because of men.I wonder if the local police are taking this with sufficient seriousness. Perhaps we are at a point where national associations should contact the Portuguese embassy in their countries to request attention at a ministerial level.... Remember that representations to the Galician and Spanish authorities resulted in increased policing on the Camino Francese.
I was hoping to walk this Camino next year solo now I’m worriedI started my Camino in Coimbra, and on the 2nd day had an incident where a man was parked along the side of the road, along the route, just waiting for a female pilgrim to walk by. He wanted me to masturbate him; thankfully he did not pursue or physically threaten me when I said no and walked away. This happened several km before Águeda, in an area where I could not have quickly found help if needed (I presume he picked the rather isolated area on purpose). When I went to the police to report the incident, they did not seem at all surprised and they conveyed that it was dangerous for women to walk solo. (They were very kind and sympathetic, but their response made me understand this type of incident is becoming increasingly common.) I no longer felt comfortable walking alone (until I was quite north of Porto) and joined a few people I had met the night before. They told me a girl they were previously walking with had a similar incident, but the man was much more aggressive and tried to physically force her into his truck. She was rescued by a fellow male pilgrim who happened to come across her.
After my experience, and learning of hers just a few days before, I would advise women NOT to walk the Camino Portuguese (south of Porto) solo. It just isn’t safe and it’s not worth the risk.
Be safe out there!
I agree with this suggestion, as I am sick and tired of the age old advice of women needing to change behavior because of men.
Sorry to hear all this is happening On the Camino I am not surprised but wanted it not to be true Guess Women should do what they use to do... carry the killer hat pin the longer and pointer the better , Mom told me that years ago (just don't fall on it your self ) I used to line the whole under neath side of my collar with them plus I carried a skinny long very sharp and pointy pair of scissors in one pocket and a straight razor in my other pocket ... Sometimes just knowing you got something to fight back with is enough to scare them off
I wonder if the local police are taking this with sufficient seriousness. Perhaps we are at a point where national associations should contact the Portuguese embassy in their countries to request attention at a ministerial level.... Remember that representations to the Galician and Spanish authorities resulted in increased policing on the Camino Francese.
Isn't it everyone's right and expectation to be able to walk safely and isn't it the police responsibility/job to try prevent crime.The OP was told by the police that it was not safe for women to walk alone. Now I wonder why women should report every incident on a Camino to the police but apparently ignore the advice that the same police gives them.
I started my Camino in Coimbra, and on the 2nd day had an incident where a man was parked along the side of the road, along the route, just waiting for a female pilgrim to walk by. He wanted me to masturbate him; thankfully he did not pursue or physically threaten me when I said no and walked away. This happened several km before Águeda, in an area where I could not have quickly found help if needed (I presume he picked the rather isolated area on purpose). When I went to the police to report the incident, they did not seem at all surprised and they conveyed that it was dangerous for women to walk solo. (They were very kind and sympathetic, but their response made me understand this type of incident is becoming increasingly common.) I no longer felt comfortable walking alone (until I was quite north of Porto) and joined a few people I had met the night before. They told me a girl they were previously walking with had a similar incident, but the man was much more aggressive and tried to physically force her into his truck. She was rescued by a fellow male pilgrim who happened to come across her.
After my experience, and learning of hers just a few days before, I would advise women NOT to walk the Camino Portuguese (south of Porto) solo. It just isn’t safe and it’s not worth the risk.
Be safe out there!
My thought was - we need to encourage men and women to walk their walks - scary ruminations can turn women away from a life dream - do as they say here - walk your walk and deal with all issues intelligently as they arise !Is it safe for a solo man?
And learn some Portuguese language - we need the ability to express ourselves alsoMy thought was - we need to encourage men and women to walk their walks - scary ruminations can turn women away from a life dream - do as they say here - walk your walk and deal with all issues intelligently as they arise !
I was just 5 weeks teaching in Paris and another faculty member had an unwell woman shove her student on the metro - pushing her hard in the chest area - and that was very scary for that student. So, I can relate to your wife and Montmartre and that is really scary - happy she is okYesterday whilst in Paris my wife was threatened with a knife near Montmarte.
She was shaken , thankfully when he raised his arm above her she gasped and stepped back which made me turn from reading the menu board on the footpath.
This was a very respectable area in a lovely residential square.
He was deranged and appeared from nowhere and this was midday---12.30 am.
We return home today ( 7/8) with the belief we have had for the last 10 years ,
" The Camino paths , whichever you choose , is safer than at home for all ....man , woman or beasts "
The words from Sparrow previously are spot on , just go for a walk and enjoy .
The Portuguese are the most respectful people .
This is a cultural response - Portuguese people are very straightforward and blunt and smart. When Police say do not walk to women they are basically saying “Look, if you walk alone you are going to see some things you do not want to see andmay not be equipped to handle - such as you have no language skills, etc” We need to deal with each challenge intelligently, learn some host county language, and report violence and people who make us feel unsafe.The OP was told by the police that it was not safe for women to walk alone. Now I wonder why women should report every incident on a Camino to the police but apparently ignore the advice that the same police gives them.
I start March 2019 - Lisbon up - I am reading a post about coastal route fromWhen do you start your walk?
I was hoping to walk this Camino next year solo now I’m worried
Good summary!Please don't be! Go walk! I love to walk alone and, if I walk with others sometimes, it will be because I want their company, not just for their protection. That is a sad way to live.
You can't escape risk anywhere you go, and you are not at increased risk, walking the Camino. Men exposing themselves is not a new, or increasing issue, in Spain or anywhere else. I witnessed this a number of times when I hitchhiked around Spain in the 1970s. I also was subjected to this many times here at home in the US, especially when I was younger. And four days ago, in Albuquerque, New Mexico (USA), I rolled my eyes at somebody who cut me off in traffic and he aimed a gun out the window at my face. Will I stop driving around my home town? No.
Rapes and violent attacks are extremely rare on the Camino. Flashers are also very rare, but slightly more common. Unfortunately, most people do not consider epidemiological statistics about the likelihood of bad outcomes, but we tend to be more swayed by frightening anecdotes. And you will be bound to hear some pretty terrible anecdotes, wherever or whatever you do. We all determine our own personal risk/benefit ratio; weighing the potential risks against the probable benefits of actions we take.
I, personally, will never allow the potential risk of a man exposing himself to me to outweigh the many, many benefits I have experienced, walking alone on the Camino. I am sorry and angry that women have been victimized on the path. I will consider the ways I can make myself safer, while walking alone. But, as a rate per population, people in my home city are victims of crime at a much higher rate than pilgrims are, walking to Santiago.
Just as a side note - if women compiled how much worry we had we would be harmed by men - one half of our species - it would be unimaginable. We need more men to speak up for us here - to tell us to walk and make our lives compelling and adventurous ! Men do not fear men exposing themselves to them because men rarely expose to other men - for fears of being harmed!!Good summary!
It is worth mentioning that Portugal reversed its drug problem in a completely unique and creative and humane way - now world famous for its great success. Portugal has also trial run recently if they could run their entire country on only their renewable energy and they did ! So, Portugal is an aware and forward looking place - exhibitionists are everywhere and it is unfortunate of course to disturb the peace of someone performing a Camino- where are the Knights Templar?I walked between Santarem and Porto last Oct, started alone first and felt safe walking alone there, then met some people on the way and eventually we formed a Camino family consisting of 4 people, including a local Portugues guy. He explained a lot about Portugal on the way and he said that Agueda and the area around it used to be famous for all kinds of shady and dark activities in the past, mainly connected with drugs. Now they've cleaned up the town but I guess the residue may still be there, you can't get rid of all the perverts at once. Regarding the police saying that it's dangerous for women to walk solo - that's also a typical Portugues thing, not necessarily connected to gender. In thier culture It's considered that if you are walking alone it means you have no friends who can walk with you so they take pity on you. As a nation they do everything in groups, and still plenty of Portugues think that doing smth alone is impossible, dangerous or lonely.
I read the report - it seems to all suggest great care and work to prevent human trafficking - most of this is forced labor (restaurants farms) etc. it mentions some sex trafficking at the very end - but this report is highly informative about how deeply the Portuguese government is working all the time to combat these terrible crimes. Caminos in Portugal have very little to do with safety issues in this document. Unless you eat food at a restaurant that has forced labor - then oddly we are complacent! (Not really but you get my point). Thank you for posting this document!!Took some searching, but here is the thread I was looking for
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/perverts-on-portuguese-camino.55688/
Perverts on the CP - yes, plural. Read it all (you may skip the part about installing alert cops, this is a Spanish app) the numbers are shocking, and one of the explanations given is this:
@LGLG
@DeansFamily
I suspect that this is not a case of several individual women who chose to do this of their own free will. In case of immigrants, possibly illegal immigrants but not only immigrants, a criminal network is probably behind this.
The US department of State reports the following about Portugal (more at link, and yes, the Portuguese government is working on it)
https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/countries/2017/271266.htm
Human trafficking is a criminal multi billion business. If the Portuguese Police advises not to walk alone because this is dangerous, it would be naive to put this down to folklore.
Hi Sparrow!I start March 2019 - Lisbon up - I am reading a post about coastal route from Lisbon - seems interesting. Do you know anything about that? Thanks!
Blessings from grey England....
Just as a side note - if women compiled how much worry we had we would be harmed by men - one half of our species - it would be unimaginable. We need more men to speak up for us here - to tell us to walk and make our lives compelling and adventurous ! Men do not fear men exposing themselves to them because men rarely expose to other men - for fears of being harmed!!
Hi Stephan,Hi Sparrow!
I plan to walk Porto to SdC along the coast next April/May as a "final" camino. You'll probably be long gone before I'm there - but just relax and enjoy. And enjoy the company of other pilgrims, who will become your "pilgrim family". Whatever you do, don't be put off by these rare occurences. Check out my web site for my previous caminos, and know that I have enjoyed EVERY ONE!
Blessings from grey England....
Hi,Please don't be! Go walk! I love to walk alone and, if I walk with others sometimes, it will be because I want their company, not just for their protection. That is a sad way to live.
You can't escape risk anywhere you go, and you are not at increased risk, walking the Camino. Men exposing themselves is not a new, or increasing issue, in Spain or anywhere else. I witnessed this a number of times when I hitchhiked around Spain in the 1970s. I also was subjected to this many times here at home in the US, especially when I was younger. And four days ago, in Albuquerque, New Mexico (USA), I rolled my eyes at somebody who cut me off in traffic and he aimed a gun out the window at my face. Will I stop driving around my home town? No.
Rapes and violent attacks are extremely rare on the Camino. Flashers are also very rare, but slightly more common. Unfortunately, most people do not consider epidemiological statistics about the likelihood of bad outcomes, but we tend to be more swayed by frightening anecdotes. And you will be bound to hear some pretty terrible anecdotes, wherever or whatever you do. We all determine our own personal risk/benefit ratio; weighing the potential risks against the probable benefits of actions we take.
I, personally, will never allow the potential risk of a man exposing himself to me to outweigh the many, many benefits I have experienced, walking alone on the Camino. I am sorry and angry that women have been victimized on the path. I will consider the ways I can make myself safer, while walking alone. But, as a rate per population, people in my home city are victims of crime at a much higher rate than pilgrims are, walking to Santiago.
I'm happy to speak up and say "Walk! Be adventurous." to women here in the forums and wherever I might be. I am less comfortable doing so on a thread related to women's safety. It seems presumptuous to me. I'm privileged enough not to have the worries that you lead your comment with. To blithely suggest that you ignore those worries to walk seems to be too dismissive of your real experiences. So, while I would certainly encourage women to walk, and my personal belief is that walking on the Camino is no more dangerous (and probably substantially less) than walking anywhere else with a similar population, I tend to reserve my encouragement for other threads.Just as a side note - if women compiled how much worry we had we would be harmed by men - one half of our species - it would be unimaginable. We need more men to speak up for us here - to tell us to walk and make our lives compelling and adventurous ! Men do not fear men exposing themselves to them because men rarely expose to other men - for fears of being harmed!!
"for hire" that is just so rude ! overcoming fears is such a good mantra! MerciYou have been a woman your whole life. For your entire life you have learned to manage seemingly unmanageable males.
Take same knowledge and ENJOY camino.
As an African-American woman walking solo I met with: a flasher here and there, a racist remark here and there, a man or two who thought I was for hire, and on and on.
I had the time of my life because I went. As everyone on this forum who has walked at least one day on the Way.
I faced fear of being alone, fear of unknown pilgrimage: FEAR!!!!
And, everyone on this forum, male or female, who has walked at least a day on the Way has done same: overcome their, FEARS!
Go: face your fears without anyone's advocacy!
Thank you David,I'm happy to speak up and say "Walk! Be adventurous." to women here in the forums and wherever I might be. I am less comfortable doing so on a thread related to women's safety. It seems presumptuous to me. I'm privileged enough not to have the worries that you lead your comment with. To blithely suggest that you ignore those worries to walk seems to be too dismissive of your real experiences. So, while I would certainly encourage women to walk, and my personal belief is that walking on the Camino is no more dangerous (and probably substantially less) than walking anywhere else with a similar population, I tend to reserve my encouragement for other threads.
As a side note, I'm not so sure it is fear of being harmed that prevents men from exposing themselves to other men. I think it is more likely that the motivating factors are just not there to do so. But your point that men don't fear assault the same way that women do certainly stands.
Yes - it was too hot in the UK too!! But I love Portugal - and Portuguese people. They're the only European nation with whom the British have never been at war!!!Too hot there Stephen a month ago , it nearly killed us .
We had walked coastal and survived with the sea breezes , then ventured north
You will love Portuguese , go very slow.
Has its advantages ! HahaSometimes I'm just glad I'm a bloke .....
Yes - it was too hot in the UK too!! But I love Portugal - and Portuguese people. They're the only European nation with whom the British have never been at war!!!
Am looking forward to it. My first ever camino was from Porto to SdC in 2011. It's all documented on my web site. I shall try to manage on just 15 kms per day.
Adios, amigo Thornley!
I think many men go through a range of emotions reading threads like this. I certainly do.
The temptation is to merely watch the threads unfold and say nothing.
What can we say? How will it be perceived? Will it be taken the wrong way? Will it seem X Y or Z?
I cannot begin to imagine what it's like to be a woman who has to walk through life being careful and wary of the opposite gender. No one should have to experience that.
And I feel shame for the actions of others of my gender.
It just saddens me deeply.
I try to make a point when walking to check that lone female pilgrims are OK.
Maybe by just making sure I stay within sight on a lonely stretch. Or just saying Hi at a coffee stop.
All of which in itself can be tricky to do without seeming like a predator...... catch 22.
But most women have fairly good radars to tell them which guys are the 'creeps'.
I think all we can do as males is to be aware. To discretely 'be there' for our fellow Pilgrims.
And obviously be prepared to 'step up' if required.
@BucketBabe there will lots of thoughts here about that.I understand pepper spray is available in Spain. Does anyone actually carry it on the Camino? Is it available at the sporting goods shops? I carry it while at home on my keychain. Thoughts?
Before you set out, programme the emergency number 112 into your telephone.
Consider downloading this App issued by the Spanish government:
https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/info/info.xhtml
The app allows anyone in Spain to send an alert from a mobile device "smartphone'"straight to the police..
Having been on both the giving end of OC (pepper spray) and receiving end (training) I can say a mist of it across my eyes dropped my 6', 90 kilo arse to my knees and I was incapacitated for at least 15 minutes. So it does work, and I recommend it for self defense, but....I understand pepper spray is available in Spain. Does anyone actually carry it on the Camino? Is it available at the sporting goods shops? I carry it while at home on my keychain. Thoughts?
It's really encouraging to read your message. Thank you for taking the time to write and your kindness does make a difference. I'm walking my first Camino next week alone and it makes me feel better to think there will be people like yourself watching out for me.
I carry it all the time at home and was wondering if it was available in Spain thank you this is great news for me mind you I forget I have it most of the time but if I need it hopefully I will remember it is right at the tip of my fingersI understand pepper spray is available in Spain. Does anyone actually carry it on the Camino? Is it available at the sporting goods shops? I carry it while at home on my keychain. Thoughts?
If you carry this stuff you need to know that it is not legal everywhere in Europe. Information here.wondering if it was available in Spain
It is not the lens I see the world through - I'm the sort that has never worried about this much: I'm not naive, but neither am I on the defensive by default.I think women every where have a problem just because we are women
For me it's not denial at all, but it does sound like we have a very different set of life experiences. And that's bound to color our outlooks.Some women say they never have to worry I wonder if they are just in denial
just a feeling I got a that I cannot substantiate as sometimes the mind embellishes fears that aren’t real...plus I didn’t see anyone, just felt v vulnerable (this was rare)...but I do trust my instincts so who knows,,,,
I have not walked Camino de Portugal However having read theOP...I would not walk the section mentioned solo
For me it is not worth it...I think it is a primal fear —rape and violence. In most cases women are physically weaker and in our cultural history as a race, rape has been sanctioned (tool of war/domestic violence/sex trafficking etc).
Yes, those are very loud whistles. Louder than the one's that are integrated into a lot of backpack chest straps these days. I would think to any peregrina concerned for safety one of those Fox whistles would be worth the 5-6 euros they cost. They come with a lanyard ring. You can wear it around your neck or attach it to your pack.In thinking about safety; and remembering my past time as sea kayaker. I like the whistle idea for communication. I carry one (Fox40) as part of my solo hiking/emergency kit for the Sierras and now Cascades. A whistle carries further and lasts longer than a voice: Although there is no true standard, the following is common:
one blast--for attention
two blasts--to get the rest of the group to stop
three blasts--emergency
So, were I to use a whistle for safety on a camino, I would use 3 (longish) blasts for a potential molester. And I have no idea the intensity and range of the built-in backpack signalling device. Kayak whistles are about 110db and can be heard for up to half a mile.
Just as a side note - if women compiled how much worry we had we would be harmed by men - one half of our species - it would be unimaginable. We need more men to speak up for us here - to tell us to walk and make our lives compelling and adventurous ! Men do not fear men exposing themselves to them because men rarely expose to other men - for fears of being harmed!!
Everyone comes to this with a different perspective shaped by their lives. I was in the Navy Reserve. I have had some great training. I worked in the ER where I was regularly threatened and saw terrible things occasionally. I have been "flashed" twice in my 50+ years - once as a 10 year old and once in my late 20's. Stuff happens. I remember Meredith Emerson's sad ending every time I hike alone. Pepper Spray is legal and effective if used properly and gives a nice window in which to obtain help. Also, if in the correct concentration, if purchased in Spain, it's legal. I have a whistle because my backpack does not have one. I know the emergency number. Is it available in the Sporting Goods shops? Does anyone know if available in Pamplona?
@zrexerI believe if you wish a solo experience, then you at least need to walk in somewhat close proximity to other walkers so as not to be a target. This is not hard to do and I believe it would just be common sense for most.
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