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The best GPS measurements for the Camino or any hiking route are those taken at ground level using many waypoints. Few guidebooks are done this way.
BUT nobody here mentioned one other very important fact - from where to where the distances in guidebooks are/were measured???
Exactly! And walking through town 3,9km can easily extend to 1 hour...
Continuing to arrive at Albergue La Sirena in San Sebastián +3.9km
So, depending upon what you choose, the day's distance can vary quite a bit!
If I forget to take off my FitBit-alike (right wrist) when I'm at ukulele group I clock up a good 4500 extra steps in two hours - no wonder I feel better when I leave.If you have a TomTom runner or even a cheap chines copy they will both give you an extra km per day if you brush your teeth whilst wearing them. They are usually about 10 per cent out unless you select the freestyle option and leave it on for an hour. When you look at your TomTom at the end of the day the figures will differ with those on the app after you download a d sync it.
Hi Dave: Wasn’t meaning to criticize you and the other wonderful guidebook writers, but to make a little fun of the rest of us, who put our naive faith in an imperfect technology and then get so self-righteous about the supposedly wrong guidebook writers who work so hard — like yourself — to get it right.Man, is that true? I've often wondered, as I slog through the inland approach from Laredo to Güemes, again, if other guidebook writers are going back through every route in their book, too. I understand the temptation in particular in the age of abundant gpx tracks online. But in our case, every route is recorded via gpx with tons of track points, and then manually tidied up afterward (the tracks are never clean in densely wooded areas). I have tweaked probably a quarter of the track points on each recorded track by the time I'm done polishing. It's tedious, but all of the info that follows builds out of it. It's a bummer to think that some guidebook publishers are callous enough to take shortcuts on that.
Sorry to be unclear, Andy! I was replying to Tom's comment in that post, not yours. And no offense taken at all. I have been on both sides of this fence, ruefully shaking my fist at a guidebook when it feels like the distances are off, and also receiving emails and reviews that question our accuracy, credibility, and motives. It comes with the territory. And, on occasion, we screw up and it's deserved, and it sucks to know that you made someone's day worse with bad info.Hi Dave: Wasn’t meaning to criticize you and the other wonderful guidebook writers, but to make a little fun of the rest of us, who put our naive faith in an imperfect technology and then get so self-righteous about the supposedly wrong guidebook writers who work so hard — like yourself — to get it right.
At least 2 - 3 times a week, I read a post where someone complains that the guidebook s/he’s using (Brierley is usually faulted for the blame) understates the distance actually walked, as measured by the poster’s supposedly reliable gps.
For example the CSJ guide for Madrid has one of the last stages waaay too long. Thanks to that I had beautiful experience in Grajal de Campos because I pushed on from the planned stage
Not unclear at all. I also wondered about the “commonality of this practice” (i.e. slipshod measurements). Personally, I’m skeptical when laymen like most of us question the responsible professionals (like you and Brierley and Wise Pilgrim) who create our guidebooks. Unless you’re a professional yourself, with professional equipment, how can you possibly know that someone else’s measurements are wrong?Sorry to be unclear, Andy! I was replying to Tom's comment in that post, not yours. And no offense taken at all. I have been on both sides of this fence, ruefully shaking my fist at a guidebook when it feels like the distances are off, and also receiving emails and reviews that question our accuracy, credibility, and motives. It comes with the territory. And, on occasion, we screw up and it's deserved, and it sucks to know that you made someone's day worse with bad info.
I just wondered about Tom's point about the commonality of this practice.
It could be to do with the intervals between samples - if you've set your GPSr to record say 5 minute intervals how far have you traveled? Have you jinked left or right ot gone straight? Also some GPSr are limited in the number of points they record so they may have a reduced level of accuracy.Whenever I stopped for a bit longer break to have a beer or two I stop my GPS tracking recorder. But I think the main problem in this discrepancy is availability of satellites at certain moment. At least three needed as I've heard. The more the merrier
But for example when I look at my Endomondo GPS track very closely it's a total zig-zag whereas the Wikiloc has straight line. On the same Camino and same very straight stretch! And Endomondo has 5-10% longer distances. Why is that? Software? Anyone knows maybe?
I also wondered about @t2andreo's post here. Certainly GPS is not used by the IAAF and national athletics associations for any official distance measurements. Leaving field measurements aside, longer track measures are normally done using a suitable bicycle fitted with a 'Jones counter' (http://www.jonescounter.com/ ) and the measurement procedures are well defined (see here for the USTAF online procedures manual http://www.rrtc.net/procedures_manual/Procedures-Manual.html ). Suggesting these techniques have a similar level of accuracy to a pedometer makes no sense to me. They are expected to achieve accuracies of better than 1/10 of 1% in distance or 1 part in 1000 - about 42 m for the marathon. Add to that there is a short course protection factor to ensure that no course is less than the certified length to avoid challenges on this count when records are claimed.Unless you’re a professional yourself, with professional equipment, how can you possibly know that someone else’s measurements are wrong?
You are absolutely right on this. Distance estimates based on step counts are always going to be vexed. While I doubt that you mince along at 60 cm a step normally, it is equally unlikely that anyone except the very tallest people would have a pace length of a metre. I estimate that mine is about 82 cm on the flat, but even that can vary. At that rate it would take about 12000 steps to cover 10 km, but when I am out bush-walking, that distance (measured on my inherently inaccurate GPS!) might take anything up to 15000 steps, or an equivalent step length under 70 cm.Does your device measuring the distance traveled by constantly following your route location by GPS or is it measuring the distance like a pedometer. Like most health apps, if it tracking your walking pace you need to do some serious calibrations. In my case my average pace is not one meter, is about 60% of that and if I am climbing mountains or traveling across rocky terrains, forget the calibration.
I have been informed that using GPS from church steps to church steps, from town to town along the way, was the official methodology.
Also, BTW, the OFFICIAL distance marker at Santiago is NOT the Cathedral, per se. It is a plaque set in the exact center of Plaza Obradoiro, in front of the west facade of the Cathedral.
Most major world cities have a similar distance marker, from which all official distances are measured and determined. For example, in Washington, DC it is a bronze marker set in the Ellipse, between the White House and Washington Memorial. In New York City, I believe it is the center of Times Square. Your capital city, and other major cities: e.g. London, Paris, Sydney, Lisbon, Madrid, Rome, Tokyo, Buenos Aires, etc. likely have a similar point.
Not quite. If the distance is given it is to a particular albergue, it then starts from that albergue on the next map / stage. In my edition, it is clear which albergue is being used for the measurement of distance on the map and in the text. Where there are other albergues, these are either shown on the stage map or perhaps on a detailed map.They are measured from the last alburgue in the city/town to the first alburgue in the next city/town.
@t2andreo, I don't think that normal handheld or vehicle GPS units have reached the level of accuracy where this is a reasonable statement to make. It might be true of survey quality GPS units which use a variety of measures to improve their accuracy, but certainly isn't going to be true for smartphones, GPS sports watches or even dedicated handheld or vehicle mounted devices.Originally, manual measurement methods were used. These analog measurements were more subject to error over distance.
I know...Dougy can be a hard nut to crack!You are absolutely right on this. Distance estimates based on step counts are always going to be vexed. While I doubt that you mince along at 60 cm a step normally, it is equally unlikely that anyone except the very tallest people would have a pace length of a metre. I estimate that mine is about 82 cm on the flat, but even that can vary. At that rate it would take about 12000 steps to cover 10 km, but when I am out bush-walking, that distance (measured on my inherently inaccurate GPS!) might take anything up to 15000 steps, or an equivalent step length under 70 cm.
I no longer set my daily exercise targets as distance, but use step counts and stair counts instead.
As an example, last week I noticed a crack in the back of my smartphone and then noticed that I was not able to get a gps signal (I was out in the middle of a forest.) Later, once in town, I tried again and got a position a few blocks away from the street signs near me. As I watched I could see my location jumping around a few blocks at a time. If I had tracking on it would have had me putting in kilometers while I was standing still.My previous comment was only half in jest. If you are stationary, the GPS will continue to take measurements subject to all the inaccuracies of the system. It will appear to wander around, as @Jeff Crawley's post capably illustrates. The distance it wanders will increase the longer you linger over coffee. For my 2016 camino, when I extracted all these, the total was over sixty kilometres - about three days walking.
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