FiveReasonsWhy
Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- October 20-November 31st
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Thank you! Much appreciated. Grateful for prayers.Dear Concerned Mama, no sooner read than praying for a very fast result for your appeal for news.
Ok done, thank youAlso, might be best if you take down your personal email - people can use the private message function and you can share it safely there.
None of her friends have heard from her either. I need to research what the next steps would be.
Done. Thank you for your input.Hello, this is an unfortunate situation. Often pilgrims are not aware of the concerns that their silence causes at home. Let's hope this is the case here and that she is just too busy.
What you could do is make an overview. Start with the last known place and date,. Can you figure out where she would be now if everything had gone as planned? (we assume that this is indeed the case.)
Also, you might put her name in the header of this thread. "Missing Zoe from ...." will surely catch the eyes of forum members who may have met her.
Done. Thank you for your input.
On the 15th she was at the Iron Cross. On the 19th she said she was in a nice albergue and with a group of young italians. She was walking about 20 kms a day. A friend of her said the last location picture she posted was around the 17th and was this church.When did you last talk to her? Do you know where she was at that time? And do you know how many KMs she was walking per day? With this info you can narrow down some possible towns where she might be have been yesterday. The folks on this forum can help with narrowing it down if you have exact dates to start calculating from.
I emailed the US Consulate in Barcelona and sent a picture of her passport. I don’t share a phone plan with her, but I have asked her father who she does share a plan with.Also please notify police and authorities. If you can see her phone activity that is helpful. But they police can access if you can’t.
Another page to post to is https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=57453722347&ref=content_filterThank you. Yes I am.
That is comforting. Thank you. I don’t know about her last withdrawal, although I do know she got out cash in Astorga, that was 2 weeks ago.That would be a long list of places to call, starting in el Acebo, Molinaseca, Ponferrada, Cacabelos to Villafranca.
I would be inclined to follow the money. Where was her last ATM withdrawal? If it was in Astorga then she probably has enough cash to get as far as O'Cebreiro or Triacastela before her next withdrawal. This region is mountainous and remote with small villages and few chance for Internet connections.
I second this recommendation. Contact both the embassy and the local police as soon as possible.Also please notify police and authorities. If you can see her phone activity that is helpful. But they police can access if you can’t.
If she was two days beyond the iron cross a week ago I reckon that puts her somewhere near Villafranca then and, continuing at the same pace, possibly near Arzua/Pedrouzo now. Santiago is a further day or two then it's around four days to Finisterre. Everyone takes the Camino at their own pace so that's an approximate timetable. Really hope she gets in touch with you soon.My 20 year daughter Zoe started the Camino solo from St Jean Pied de Port on October 23rd. We tended to hear from her every couple days as she would hit Albergues with internet. We haven’t heard from her in a week. She was a couple days past the iron cross and traveling with Italians and a man and co worker from Dubai that she had met on the trail. This is unlike her to go silent. Is there a network of albergues where I can ask if anyone has seen her? She is 5’9 and 140 pounds and has a blue jacket and doc marten boots. She is walking on through to “the end of the world.”
Concerned mama.
My 20 year daughter Zoe started the Camino solo from St Jean Pied de Port on October 23rd. We tended to hear from her every couple days as she would hit Albergues with internet. We haven’t heard from her in a week. She was a couple days past the iron cross and traveling with Italians and a man and co worker from Dubai that she had met on the trail. This is unlike her to go silent. Is there a network of albergues where I can ask if anyone has seen her? She is 5’9 and 140 pounds and has a blue jacket and doc marten boots. She is walking on through to “the end of the world.”
Concerned mama.
No, she is an American from California of Spanish, Norwegian, Filipino descent.Could this young woman possibly be of Hungarian origin?
(spoke to someone looking a bit like her yesterday in Fisterra)
From her father “Talked to local police. They say there is definitely a way for authorities to ping the phone but usually with overseas situations this happens through Interpol. She said starting with the consulate is correct. I would wait a couple more days to file a missing persons report though, it’s still more likely than not that she is in a bad connection area or something happened to her phone.”My 20 year daughter Zoe started the Camino solo from St Jean Pied de Port on October 23rd. We tended to hear from her every couple days as she would hit Albergues with internet. We haven’t heard from her in a week. She was a couple days past the iron cross and traveling with Italians and a man and co worker from Dubai that she had met on the trail. This is unlike her to go silent. Is there a network of albergues where I can ask if anyone has seen her? She is 5’9 and 140 pounds and has a blue jacket and doc marten boots. She is walking on through to “the end of the world.”
Concerned mama.
Yes. That's the one - I have a photo of it confirming that.t is a bit further, at the end of Camponaraya
If she plans to get her Compostela, and she has not yet arrived in SdC, you might leave a message at the pilgrims office.
@t2andreo can hopefully tell you all about how to do that.
She might still be about 50km out. And especially if she had snow over the mountains by LaFaba and O’Cebreiro. There is a list of all albergues and also a profile map with most towns listed at the bottom of the main forum page that may help you be somewhat familiar with distances and options. Does she have a pack? Any idea what brand and color or anything special about it?
I haven’t seen anything but the public email accountsRick of @RickandPeg sent me a Private Conversation request for how to handle direct contact with the Pilgrim Office. I provided phone numbers and names.
I also provided contact info for the Policia Local at Santiago de Compostela.
I believe he is working with @FiveReasonsWhy, offline.
Could you contact me directly? Thank you.I haven’t seen anything but the public email accounts
This is a very worrying situation and I feel for your anxiety. I think that If she withdrew money in Astorga, she should surely be in, or within a day of Santiago now. This should narrow down the research of where she might have stayed over these last couple of days, perhaps starting with Arzua. I have no idea which albergues are still open at this time of the year, but it shouldn't be too difficult to obtain the list and check them out. Obviously with someone to help you locally. The Pilgrim's Office is also a very important connection and they should be looking out for her fellow travelers too (the Italians and the go worker from Dubai). I do hope she contacts you soon.That is comforting. Thank you. I don’t know about her last withdrawal, although I do know she got out cash in Astorga, that was 2 weeks ago.
Yes, I agree. I really would just like to know she’s been seen.I usually contacted friends/family every few days, but I'm pretty sure there would have been a week gap in there. I would have been embarrassed if anyone contacted the police. Especially when there is a lot going on around you, new friendships and a lot to process, you aren't sure how to communicate it all to folks back home. I could be way off track here, but I wouldn't worry so much if it's been just a week...
I usually contacted friends/family every few days, but I'm pretty sure there would have been a week gap in there. I would have been embarrassed if anyone contacted the police. Especially when there is a lot going on around you, new friendships and a lot to process, you aren't sure how to communicate it all to folks back home. I could be way off track here, but I wouldn't worry so much if it's been just a week...
Of more concern is this young lady also had problems before/earlier in camino and transported ahead to leave distance according to a post. This screenshot is from Nov. 6, her first time with a problem.
It looks like a special place. Here:No idea what that is
I never saw this. Thank you so much!Just saw this posted on a fb page. She ought to be fine. Suposedly at the alchemist house! No idea what that is but she will be told to contact home. @FiveReasonsWhy
Love love loveAll's well that ends well! Boy, is she going to get a talking to for not staying in contact.
Could you contact me directly? Thank you.
If she is at Alchemista I know Antonio, he is a good man and it is a safe and beautiful space.I never saw this. Thank you so much!
I never saw this. Thank you so much!
I believe she has made contact. So all good??My 20 year daughter Zoe started the Camino solo from St Jean Pied de Port on October 23rd. We tended to hear from her every couple days as she would hit Albergues with internet. We haven’t heard from her in a week. She was a couple days past the iron cross and traveling with Italians and a man and co worker from Dubai that she had met on the trail. This is unlike her to go silent. Is there a network of albergues where I can ask if anyone has seen her? She is 5’9 and 140 pounds and has a blue jacket and doc marten boots. She is walking on through to “the end of the world.”
Concerned mama.
Her mother posted on the thread that she started on the Camigas page:Yes if it was my kid missing I wouldn’t take a FB message from a third party as good enough evidence that she’s safe and well. But as I wrote on another thread I’m *very* safety/security oriented.
I was also surprised when I saw their reaction on their FB group but I can also understand that they adopted this policy. I suppose it is difficult to determine in the first few days whether it's an actual missing person case or a case where contact to a person has been temporarily lost for so long that it becomes worrying.I was surprised at American Pilgrims on the Camino's response to the message that she was missing [...] They responded with: "Please contact the local authorities rather than posting here. Although we would all like to help, from here the best thing we can do is inform those in the position to investigate" and disabled further comments.
Hopefully this is fact coming from her actually speaking to her daughter for verification and not just taken from the fb photo and comment, although it does sound like very encouraging news.Her mother posted on the thread that she started on the Camigas page:
Yes she was at the Alchemist is the mountains without internet
Thanks for letting us all know.I appreciate this community so much. Thank you all so much for working together to find my daughter who otherwise would not be found. She was in a small private albergue in the mountains with no internet. I would have never heard from her without you all. Thank you so so much. This is an extremely special and rare community. God bless you all.
Concerned mama.
I'm on that group and they were, imo, absolutely wrong to shut down that thread. These forums are the way that people gain information about what to do. Especially for the non Spanish speaker or non Camino walker who has no clue what to do. The fact that it was the albergue who raised the flag that the girl was with them is proof of the power of social media.I was surprised at American Pilgrims on the Camino's response to the message that she was missing being forwarded to their website from CAMIGAS, the buddy system for women on the Camino. They responded with: "Please contact the local authorities rather than posting here. Although we would all like to help, from here the best thing we can do is inform those in the position to investigate. " and disabled further comments. It was heartening and reassuring to see the marked contrast here! So glad that she's found.
I’m so grateful. We would have had days ahead of us of not knowing and would have caused an international incident, when this beautiful community was able to network and pinpoint her. Extremely touching and grateful.I'm on that group and they were, imo, absolutely wrong to shut down that thread. These forums are the way that people gain information about what to do. Especially for the non Spanish speaker or non Camino walker who has no clue what to do. The fact that it was the albergue who raised the flag that the girl was with them is proof of the power of social media.
I'm grateful for this forum and the willingness of everyone to give advice and support to concerned mama. As opposed to shutting down the conversation and telling her to go figure it out on her own.
This was something so efficiently and lovingly handled by community instead of authority and that’s a lovely thing this season. The authorities are necessary and I am grateful they exist, and people and community are necessary and can accomplish so much on the human level and in this case with more care, and gentleness.I was also surprised when I saw their reaction on their FB group but I can also understand that they adopted this policy. I suppose it is difficult to determine in the first few days whether it's an actual missing person case or a case where contact to a person has been temporarily lost for so long that it becomes worrying.
We are becoming more and more aware of the powers of social networks like FB. Whatever one feels about this, Facebook certainly delivered in this case.
(There are several large and active camino groups on Facebook, in various languages, some of them are members-only. There is also a FB group for this forum).
I’m so grateful. We would have had days ahead of us of not knowing and would have caused an international incident, when this beautiful community was able to network and pinpoint her. Extremely touching and grateful.
When she said "would never have heard from her" the message I read is that she heard directly from Zoe and not just from third parties.But have you spoken, texted, or exchanged direct email with your daughter? We all want this to be resolved in the best possible manner. But some of us veterans, including me, are wary of third-party reports on social media.
Please let us know once you have communicated directly with Zoe. Only then will we relax and stand down.
Thanks
Yes directly through the home page of the albergueWhen she said "would never have heard from her" the message I read is that she heard directly from Zoe and not just from third parties.
For me, it is actually quite simple: when I read a search request, I would make a decision about whether I trust what the requester says or not and whether I would want to err on the side of the requester or on the side of the missing person.Food for thought, @falcon269 . Thank you.
I've suggested to my wife, that she ever considers me to have gone missing on a Camino trip, that she posts here and asks if anyone has seen me. I hope the day never comes, but if it does, I dearly hope that anybody who thinks they might have encountered me will give her news rather than sit around philosophising over whether I want to be found. Equally, I think it falls within a mother's remit to try and find her child, whom after all, she knows best. Neither would I say, "Only in the case of Denise Thiem..." Rather, I would say, "Because of..."Food for thought, @falcon269 . Thank you.
Well said. All sorts of arguments have been given as to why this community should not help to find someone who is missing or has not checked in but the easy answer is to ask the person to contact home if you are with them or know where they are rather than give a location online, this protects both parties IMO.Neither would I say, "Only in the case of Denise Thiem..." Rather, I would say, "Because of..."
Hola Tom, your contact plan is a very useful one. Whilst I did not make too many phone calls directly to family, I did phone in to a radio station that on Sundays broadcast to virtually all of Australia. I also posted somewhat regularly on my Facebook page. But I agree with those in the 18-28 age range something a little more detailed is the "mum reassurance" necessary.
As for the somewhat errant woman in this case - glad to know that as the saying goes "all's well that ends well". Oh and a special like/virtual hug to @FiveReasonsWhy (think you sound like a great mum!!)!
This forum has a similar policy, and it is quite firmly applied. If you don't like the moderation, you must comment by PM, to Ivar, and not post your criticism in a public thread. While that might seem odd at first, it is necessary so that the team of Moderators can do their volunteer work without harassment and potentially insulting threads. None of them would hang around if they were subject to open criticism by strangers. They are doing their best, and may make "wrong" calls, but I understand that they try to work together to develop the best approach to discussions that can be difficult.I was chastised by the admins, that I should have written them a personal message if I wasn't happy with how they handled it i
I think you confuse "missing" with "lost". To her mum, she was missing until accounted for but I suspect that you understand that really. As a father, I can entirely identify with her plight.She wasn’t missing. She knew where she was.
It was clearly mentioned that she had a phone and shared a phone plan with her father.As a father, I would supply a cell phone!
I was so disheartened with the APOC FB group, that I wrote a post about it this morning. I was chastised by the admins, that I should have written them a personal message if I wasn't happy with how they handled it instead of an open post and then they closed off all comments. Other people wrote asking about "the missing girl", why the post was gone. All of the admin answers were lame, in my opinion. So, have left their FB group. Where is their empathy and kindness?
The APOC moderators messaged me with great kindness and said they were simply of the belief that all info should be posted here so that I would see it and they were concerned that information was becoming scattered and apologized for any stress their decision made.This forum has a similar policy, and it is quite firmly applied. If you don't like the moderation, you must comment by PM, to Ivar, and not post your criticism in a public thread. While that might seem odd at first, it is necessary so that the team of Moderators can do their volunteer work without harassment and potentially insulting threads. None of them would hang around if they were subject to open criticism by strangers. They are doing their best, and may make "wrong" calls, but I understand that they try to work together to develop the best approach to discussions that can be difficult.
Perhaps the team at APOC are reconsidering their response after hearing your concerns, and next time will be different. But every case is different.
I agree with much of what you say. For me it was that she had been pursued by a pilgrim twice her age who was not taking No for an answer and so had been more diligent than otherwise to make her whereabouts known for her own safety and well being and then had gone silent. It was out of character and out of pattern for her and thus a red flag. She had checked in every 3-5 days at most with location and who she was traveling with and was in contact with friends nearly daily. There was no trace of her for a week. Her friends became concerned as did we her parents.These threads always make me a little bit uncomfortable, like a stranger asking to be a Friend on Facebook. I always try to keep in mind that some people are incommunicado because they want to be. Nervous parents are justifiably wary of a full scale search through the Spanish authorities, so it is nice that social media can help. Everyone who helped is now in the great database in the cloud, linked to Camino de Santiago! Expect to get popup ads for tours in Spain.
In this case it was a youth who did not properly communicate with a concerned parent. It occurs thousands of time each year and is a crisis for those individuals. Only in the case of Denise Thiem has there ever been a bad outcome, at least to my knowledge. So while it may be a huge problem for the concerned parties, it may be less important than litter, which affects us all.
Everyone is free to help, but they are equally free to not help. I have to disagree that APOC is in any manner negligent in its reaction. If they don't want to hand-hold, I can fully support that policy and will continue sending in my dues. A decade ago, instant communication was available only from intermittently operating computers in just a few albergues (and libraries). I understand that we have moved from pony express to postage stamps, through FedEx, and on to wifi, but good old fashioned patience is still a virtue.
Social media is causing the death of democracy and privacy. When someone is "found" who does not want to be found, each of us may need to examine our personal contribution. That may be useful to contemplate on future pilgrim searches.
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