- Time of past OR future Camino
- Many, various, and continuing.
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Rebekah Scott said:If you are a Pilgrim of Faith, how is your pilgrimage different from anyone else´s?
Priscillian said:Caminando...not so, not so: we can never do our "first" Camino again. And why? Because we have learned and moved on
TS
AJ said:If you are not a Pilgrim of Faith (if I understand this term properly - and I may not), you are taking a long walk, not making a pilgrimage.
JohnnieWalker said:I understand what you mean but I am always personally uncomfortable with definitions of what makes a pilgrim let alone what makes a Pilgrim of Faith. No doubt for some people their faith is clear to them and devoutly held. Some of the rest of us struggle along living with doubts and conflicts and trying to make sense of the journey of life and beyond. I suspect that many people set out to make a long walk and some become pilgrims on the way.
JohnnieWalker said:I understand what you mean but I am always personally uncomfortable with definitions of what makes a pilgrim let alone what makes a Pilgrim of Faith.
Priscillian said:Funny thing that, because in the film The Way the question: "Why are You Doing the Camino?" seems uppermost ....This is a question rarely asked. Privacy is expected.....In my experience this is a question left unsaid. It is personal and unimportant to anyone else....
I can hold my hand up to this question and say that my walk was planned as a spiritual journey, starting at Exeter Cathedral at a Service of Holy Communion and ending at the Pilgrim Mass in Compostela. In England I walked one of the old 'Pilgrim Routes' from Exeter, past Buckfast Abbey and St. Mary's Priory at Plympton - both recognised mediaeval pilgrim stopovers - to catch a boat to the north coast of Spain from Plymouth.But how many of us are setting out on the path with a clear spiritual motivation already in place?
As "an observant" Christian having made two previous pilgrimages (though not to Santiago de Compostela yet- for a Christian especially a Catholic there are two other more primary pilgrimages than CompostelaRebekah Scott said:So... how does an observant Christian make a Christian pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, on a day-to-day basis? What does he do that makes his Path a religous one?
Many Christian pilgrims pray and meditate on their journey. As Fr. Cobb mentions in his "Field of Stars" book he uses a rosary and i do too. The Rosary is a particular pilgrims prayer as its very repetitiveness and rhythm is suited to the walking motion of a long journey and encourages the state of mind to begin meditaion and contemplation and was indeed the prayer of choice for Christian pilgrims. Although this method of walking prayer is far older than the Christian tradition Christianity has adopted the technique with it's own prayers and the Rosary became a common household prayer as well as a pilgrims prayer. (The history of the Rosary is easily searchable on the internet)Rebekah Scott said:I am interested in pilgrims´ spiritual practices during the walk. Do you pray? Use prayer rope or rosary? Do you stop and meditate in any formal fashion? I wonder if there is any particular pilgrim spiritual guide or breviary in use for pilgrims who want to be steeped in prayer and worship as they walk or ride.......
Rebekah Scott said:I am interested, though, at how "tolerance" of non-Christian peregrinos has made Christian pilgrims feel they need to hide their rosaries or blunt their experience so their faith does not "offend" fellow travelers......
Why wouldn't anyone not like the facts? If it wasn't for Christians I doubt if any of the non Christians here would have walked to Santiago de Compostela as it wouldn't have existed lol.Rebekah Scott said:The pilgrimage to Santiago was/is designed to support a Christian journey, (Like it or not, them´s the facts,) but many active Christians keep a very low profile......
PilgrimChris said:Many Christian pilgrims pray and meditate on their journey. As Fr. Cobb mentions in his "Field of Stars" book he uses a rosary and i do too. The Rosary is a particular pilgrims prayer as its very repetitiveness and rhythm is suited to the walking motion of a long journey and encourages the state of mind to begin meditaion and contemplation and was indeed the prayer of choice for Christian pilgrims. Although this method of walking prayer is far older than the Christian tradition Christianity has adopted the technique with it's own prayers and the Rosary became a common household prayer as well as a pilgrims prayer. (The history of the Rosary is easily searchable on the internet)Chris
KiwiNomad06 said:Rebekah, the date for your departure with Juli's Mum draws near, and I know many of us will be thinking of you as you walk.
Margaret
"There´s so much more to this Camino than our presumptuous, self-referential, comparative Pilgrim egos can comprehend. It takes years to even start to see the layers. I think we all ought to just shut the hell up and walk . . . . ."
My 'epic' is on-line at Pilgrimage to Santiago. There are two more stanzas about to be added, towards the end, and over time there may be others 'along the Way'. I am still contemplating, writing and revising the work!andy.d said:........
and Terry - your epic is brewing up well
Andy
Rebekah Scott said:A beautiful observance I remember from the Italian and Croatian Catholics in my neighborhood where I grew up (Pittsburgh USA) was how they stopped in front of any church we passed and made the sign of the cross -- Jesus was in there, and they paid their respects!
sillydoll said:A Bike Ride and the Zen Master
A Zen Teacher saw five of his students return from the market, riding their bicycles. When they had dismounted, the teacher asked the students,
"Why are you riding your bicycles?"
The first student replied, "The bicycle is carrying this sack of potatoes. I am glad that I do not have to carry them on my back!"
The teacher praised the student, saying, "You are a smart boy. When you grow old, you will not walk hunched over, as I do."
The second student replied, "I love to watch the trees and fields pass by as I roll down the path."
The teacher commended the student, "Your eyes are open and you see the world."
The third student replied, "When I ride my bicycle, I am content to chant, nam myoho renge kyo."
The teacher gave praise to the third student, "Your mind will roll with the ease of a newly trued wheel."
The fourth student answered, "Riding my bicycle, I live in harmony with all beings."
The teacher was pleased and said, "You are riding on the golden path of non-harming."
The fifth student replied, "I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle."
The teacher went and sat at the feet of the fifth student, and said, "I am your disciple."
sillydoll said:If you are looking for a metaphorical sword (Coehlo) you will find it.
If you are looking for an event in a previous life in Lemuria (Maclaine) you will find it.
revrenjen said:I read with interest Caminando's post about feeling something powerful on his first Camino that hasn't been duplicated on subsequent pilgrimages. I make my first El Camino this May, so I can't speak to the Camino experience, but it did remind me of when I first went to the cathedral at Chartres, and had this truly amazing, deeply profound spiritual experience walking the labyrinth there. I was totally blindsided by what I felt.
Three years later I returned with my family, anxious to repeat the experience with those I loved. It was a disaster. My husband and I had a terrible fight; instead of the light-filled space I remembered the Cathedral was dark and gloomy, and my children looked around and clearly thought, "What on earth was the big deal?"
As I prepare for my first Camino I certainly hope, indeed anticipate, that something moving and important will happen spiritually. But I am aware that these profound experiences of the divine (or joy or whatever you want to name it) are simply gifts that we have little or nothing to do with except to be open to them when they come along.
So I am trying to pay attention to the wisdom of this poem, one of my favorites, written by St. Francis of Assisi after he returned from a pilgrimage to Rome:
A bird took flight.
and a flower in a field whistled at me
as I passed.
I drank
from a stream of clear water.
And at night the sky untied her hair and I fell asleep
clutching a tress
of God’s.
When I returned from Rome, all said
“Tell us the great news,”
and with great excitement I did: “A flower in a field whistled,
and at night the sky untied her hair and
I fell asleep clutching a sacred tress…”
Buen Camino
Not a zen master at all though. but one of the most important thinkers and DOERS of the Catholic Church. However as with all great spritual insights they are not unique to any one system of faith or philosophy.servaasgoddijn said:A beautiful post revrenjen. I count St. Francis now to the great zenmasters of the past.
servaas
newfydog said:. . . . . . . the pilgrims, they have shown me a level of sincerety and goodwill which is missing from far too many elements of organized faith.
Rebekah Scott said:Falcon said "It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month," Which I would agree with, except I keep meeting people who´ve been walking hundreds of kilometers to where I am (after Sarria) who judge me very harshly because I am walking there without a backpack and with a fresh credential.
Because my clothes are not ragged, and I don´t smell (very) bad, and basically because by walking the Camino so long they feel the Camino is their property. And because I am not more like THEM.
They cannot see how many of THEIR kind of caminos I walked already. They cannot see that the shortest, most "touristic" camino might just be the most spiritually powerful one. If they are so very enlightened by their long walk, maybe they should consider shutting the ---- up.
Mankind judges by appearances. God looks on the heart.
Rebekah Scott said:where I am (after Sarria)..... God looks on the heart.
Do you speak from personal experience Falcon? Have you been abused by someone after sitting in a pew? Or indeed did you mean you found it easier to abuse someone after sitting in a pew yourself?falcon269 said:I suspect that there are not too many "Sunday Christians" on the Camino. It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month. I may be wrong.
servaasgoddijn said:A beautiful post revrenjen. I count St. Francis now to the great zenmasters of the past.
servaas
Sorry servaasgoddijn but try as i might i cannot see a winkservaasgoddijn said:I wrote this with a wink
It's true. The guy just got up out of the pew and began to abuse me. Perceptive of you.Do you speak from personal experience Falcon? Have you been abused by someone after sitting in a pew?
I am sorry to hear that Falcon. It does go someway in helping to understand explain your statement -falcon269 said:It's true. The guy just got up out of the pew and began to abuse me. Perceptive of you.
I hope you won't hold your personal experience against the rest of your fellow man especially those of a faith different to your own.falcon269 said:It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew
Rebekah Scott said:Mankind judges by appearances. God looks on the heart.
revrenjen said:The recent posts on self-righteous, judgmental pilgrims reminds me of some important wisdom from Celtic Christianity. Celtic Christianity valued pilgrimage as a spiritual exercise. Indeed, there were monks who became "peregrinati" which meant more or less permanent pilgrims who felt called to be "hospites mundi" or guests of the world (I LOVE that phrase). But as much as Celtic Christians valued pilgrimage, they taught that:
To go to Rome
is much of trouble, little of profit;
The King whom thou seekest there,
Unless thou bring him with thee, thou wilt not find.
Blessings--
Rene
William Marques said:The door is open to all, to sick and healthy,
not only to Catholics but also to pagans,
Jews, heretics and vagabonds.
Priscillian said:Caminando, and a bit late. You wrote:
...on second thoughts, Pr., you've made a total misreading and misunderstanding of my post. I think you had a fixed idea and couldn't see past it.
On my own second thoughts, I think you are absolutely right!
It's such a personal thing, isn't it: "The Camino"? I have often asked myself why normal, ordinary, "sane" people with no previous history of doing something as insane as travelling 800 klms (or 100 or 1000) on foot, horseback, bicycle etc., etc. would do something as archaic as going on "Pilgrimage" in this day and age? I tried to explore that in Pilgrimage to Heresy (as Chris points out) and in the doing perhaps went on another type of pilgrimage in the writing of fiction joined up with what was a very personal experience as my main character explores many of my own doubts about what we can salvage out of this oh-so-very materialistic world we live in.
And that in the end was the blessing: the very simplicity of it all.
On subsequent Caminos, either on foot (three times) or even in my car as last year's "Retrospective" (I had two broken ribs and couldn't walk to Muxía as I had hoped), I have come down the hill into Marbella - from the "real Spain" to the very much unreal at times - and actually felt myself reluctant to take up my life, with all the "stuff" that entails.
And I love my life!
I am so glad that not only did Rebekah start this thread, but that so many very philosophical replies have been posted.
¡Viva el Camino! (Now, which one next year...?)
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.blogspot.com
I felt like I was slotted into a finely-wrought structure that´s been planed and tuned over centuries to make exactly this kind of traveling worship a workable reality
Rebekah, I am pleased that your pilgrimage was so special!I have described mine as "a month of Quiet Time". Our prayers continue to be with you and your friends as you carry on with working through your grief.Rebekah Scott said:it was not just a "worship experience" or a "faith encounter." It was truly "walking in the spirit." For DAYS!
Our arrival at the cathedral was a joyous setting-free of a great burden. We still have a lot of work to do, grief-wise. But this camino is a time-tested tonic for Christians in need of spiritual comfort and support. It´s engineered for the job. It´s WAY more than could have imagined.
I don't know if my Camino was any different from that of others, but walking the Camino was one of the most wonderful things I have ever done.Rebekah Scott said:If you are a Pilgrim of Faith, how is your pilgrimage different from anyone else´s?
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