Camino Frances : Historical importance

[Patrick]

Hi
I walked the Camino Frances from St-Jean Pied-de-Port to Santiago de Compostella in May 2005. It was tough, but hugely worthwhile. I would now like to write something about the experience, and I would like to begin by putting the Camino in its historical perspective. In connection with this I need to I need to trace a quotation which has intrigued me.
The quotation is from J.W Von Goethe: 'Europe was created on the road to Santiago' (or words to that effect; I have found it in several languages, but not in German) I need to find the source and context of this quotation.
I know what a knowledgeable lot you Caministas are. Can anyone help?

Patrick

 

[Peter Robins]

I believe the correct quotation is

Europa ist aus der Pilgerschaft geboren und das Christentum ist seine Muttersprache

[Europe was born out of pilgrimage and Christianity is its mother-tongue]
though I'm afraid I can't give you chapter and verse.

I don't believe there was any reference to Santiago (or the Camino Frances).

 

[sillydoll]

Perhaps Dante's Vita Nuova is a better resource for the importance of St James and Galicia as a destination?
In Vita Nuova (which means new life) he explains;
“In a general sense a pilgrim is anyone who is out of his own country; in a specific sense ‘pilgrim’ means only one who travels to or returns from the house of St. James. ....And it is to be known further that there are three ways by which the people who travel in the service of the Most High may be accurately called. They are called palmers who journey across the sea to that Hold Land (Jerusalem), and whence they often bring back palms; they are called pilgrims who journey to the house of Galicia, because the tomb of St. James is farther away from his own country than that of any other apostle; they are called romers who travel to Rome…”
Dante 1256 - 1321

 

[Patrick]

Well now, you are a clever lot!. Many thanks for prompt replies: for the long-sought quotation in German, and for the statistics and checklist of dates. I am familiar with the Dante quote; it is quite specific to the Camino. The Goethe quote - I have seen it MISquoted in Spanish and italian - would appear to be very general, but intriguing nonetheless. Sadly I do not possess the Complete Works of the great J W von G (with index)! Does anyone know of a German scholar who could provide the source?
Patrick

 

[Peter Robins]

I am familiar with the Dante quote; it is quite specific to the Camino

it is specific to Santiago; it's not specific to any "Camino" - many Italians went to Santiago by sea. By the 13th century, galleys from Dante's local port at Pisa were running reasonably regularly to Galicia, both with pilgrims and normal commercial traffic; Genoa and Venice likewise.

The Goethe quote - I have seen it MISquoted in Spanish and italian - would appear to be very general, but intriguing nonetheless. Sadly I do not possess the Complete Works of the great J W von G (with index)! Does anyone know of a German scholar who could provide the source?

http://www.von-goethe.net/ has the complete works, though there doesn't seem to be any search ability. I'll leave you to plough through his voluminous output if you wish

My experience is that you are wise to always check sources for quotations. The web is a wonderful tool but it's amazing how quickly completely false information can spread.

 

[Peter Robins]

PS if you want the source of the Dante quote Sil cites, it's from section XL
http://tuttotempolibero.altervista.org/ ... Cap40.html

English xlation at
http://www.adkline.freeuk.com/TheNewLif ... oc88710691

 

[sillydoll]

it is specific to Santiago; it's not specific to any "Camino" - many Italians went to Santiago by sea. By the 13th century, galleys from Dante's local port at Pisa were running reasonably regularly to Galicia, both with pilgrims and normal commercial traffic; Genoa and Venice likewise.

Didn't they still have to walk the "way - road - camino" to the city of Santiago de Compostela from whatever port they landed in?

 

[sillydoll]

Dante also refers to St James in "The Banquet (Il Convito)"

"...Dante speaks of la galassia—‘the galaxy, that is, the white circle which the common people call the way of St. James’. Ordinary people formerly considered the milky way as a sign by night to pilgrims who were going to the tomb of St. James in Galicia. The Milky Way has been referred to as a Road by many cultures, ancient and modern, hence the Latin name 'uia lactea'.

 

[Peter Robins]

PPS: and I've also just noticed - something I'd not realized before - that Dante uses the word 'peregrino' rather than 'pellegrino' more usual in modern Italian. I wonder if that's a local usage. AFAIK 'peregrino' in modern usage means 'traveller' in general rather than specifically 'pilgrim'.

 

[Frank]

The Goethe quotation cannot be found in any of the texts on von-goethe.net. I've scanned them all. :shock:

I've written to some of those who have the quotation on their web pages. None of them could tell me the source of it. I'll try the Goethe-University in Frankfurt/Main and the Goethe-Institut in Madrid. There should be someone of help in Weimar as well. And one could ask the editors of the complete works (Hamburger Ausgabe).

As far as Dante is concerned I've always wondered if he wanted to say that the only true pilgrim is the one who travels to Santiago or whether he meant to say that those who go to Santiago are called "peregrino" while those on their way to Rome and Jerusalem are given different names. I vaguely remember an article in German which destinguished between "Pilger" (pilgrim) to Santiago, "Wallfahrer" (wayfarer) to Jerusalem and "Romfahrer" ("romefarer") to Rome.

-----------
The answer to my question was right there in Dante's text:
From what I understand he destinguishes three types of people who "go in service of the Highest".
"chiamansi palmieri in quanto vanno oltremare" - Those who go overseas (which I suppose meant to Jerusalem in the 13th century) are called "palmieri" or palmers.
"chiamansi peregrini in quanto vanno a la casa di Galizia" - Those who go to the house of Galicia (later he mentions St. James) are called "peregrini" or pilgrims.
"chiamansi romei in quanto vanno a Roma" - Those who go to Rome are called "romei" or romers.

So Dante does not say that the only true pilgrim is the one who travels the way of St. James. It's just that those who go elsewhere receive different names.

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Of course I also could've just read the translation provided by sillydoll. :roll:

 

[sillydoll]

The introduction to the text is : “In a general sense a pilgrim is anyone who is out of his own country; in a specific sense ‘pilgrim’ means only one who travels to or returns from the house of St. James." And then he goes on to define the three names.

 

[Peter Robins]

The Goethe quotation cannot be found in any of the texts on von-goethe.net. I've scanned them all. :shock:

oh dear, very sad! :lol:
Then it probably comes from a letter rather than a 'work'

You could try the Deutsche St. Jakobus-Gesellschaft - they're quite an erudite lot, and someone there ought to know http://www.deutsche-jakobus-gesellschaft.de
Though I think the quotation is more to do with the concept of Europe rather than pilgrimage. 'Europe' is quite a modern idea, and I would doubt whether you'll find many (if any) references to 'Europe' in medieval documents.

So Dante does not say that the only true pilgrim is the one who travels the way of St. James

no, I don't see how you could read that into it, simply the use of the word 'peregrino'

"in modo stretto non s'intende peregrino se non chi va verso la casa di sa' Iacopo o riede"
In a strict sense only those who go to the house of St James or back are understood as 'peregrino'

"però che la sepultura di sa' Iacopo fue più lontana de la sua patria che d'alcuno altro apostolo"
In the sense that the tomb of St James is further from his homeland than that of any other apostle [so it was St James who was the 'peregrino'!]

though he rather contradicts himself by calling the pilgrims he met 'peregrini' even though they were going to Rome!

I don't think you can read too much into these semantics. People always adapt words to their own circumstances: modern Galicians call their local pilgrimages 'romerias' even though they have nothing to do with Rome.

'Romer' is the English for 'romeo'. Archaic nowadays, but it survives as a (uncommon) surname, as of course does Palmer.

According to my German etymological dictionary, 'wallfahren' is from Old High German 'wadalon', 'umherschweifen', so 'to wander about' - much like English 'peregrinate'. I don't think it has anything to do specifically with Jerusalem.

 

[Frank]

Thank you, Peter,
I've just sent a mail to the Jakobus-Gesellschaft.

How could I read into Dante what he had never said? Superficial reading of mutilated quotations might have been the cause.

 

[Peter Robins]

modern Galicians call their local pilgrimages 'romerias'

correction: 'romeria' is the Castilian word; in Galician (and Portuguese) it is 'romaria'

 

[Patrick]

Great website! I am enjoying the erudite deliberations on matters Goethean and Dante-esque.

With such scholarship out there it can be only a matter of time before someone traces the source of Goethe's 'Pilgerschaft' comment. He may have been suggesting that consciousness of a Europe defined by its Christianity developed in contradistinction to Islamic Asia/N.Africa at the time when pilgrimage became a dimension of Crusading. Or something else entirely. . .

 

[Frank]

I received an answer from the Deutsche-Jakobus-Gesellschaft (Mr. Bahnen). He says that the quotation is erroneously attributed to Goethe.

 

[Peter Robins]

ho ho. That would be typical of many of the claims made for the 'historical importance' of the pilgrimage to Santiago. Supposed facts are repeated over and over until everyone takes them for granted, but when you investigate the sources you find they are either highly dubious or non-existent.

 

[Red Kite]

What an interesting debate...my family name is Palmer, does that mean that one of my ancestors (probably) went on pilgrimage to the Holy Land ?

 

[Patrick]

Thanks, Frank, for your efforts in trying to tracing the 'Pilgerschaft' quotation. Do we now give up on Goethe? Or, to put it another way, can we be certain that your informant is correct? And if not Goethe, WHO? Is there a German equivalent of Cohen and Major's excellent History in Quotations, I wonder.

 

[Peter Robins]

my family name is Palmer, does that mean that one of my ancestors (probably) went on pilgrimage to the Holy Land ?

yup - and more importantly managed to get home again

 

[Red Kite]

Red Kite wrote:
my family name is Palmer, does that mean that one of my ancestors (probably) went on pilgrimage to the Holy Land ?
yup - and more importantly managed to get home again

How cool is that? Ancestors are wonderful things.

 

[Frank]

Here's what the Goethe-Institut in Madrid says about the quotation:

They heard about it for the first time a few years ago when a Spanish professor found it translating an Austrian book. He did not find the author of the quotation.
So the Goethe-Institut started a worldwide investigation, including an inquiry at the Austrian book's publisher.

Nobody was able to aqcaint them with the origins of the quotation. :!:
Their attempt to shed some light on the matter by searching their own CD-ROM version of Goethe's complete works was also futile. :!:

I think that's sufficient information to conclude:

The phrase "Europa ist aus der Pilgerschaft geboren, und das Christentum ist seine Muttersprache." is NOT a quotation from Goethe.

 

[Patrick]

Who would argue with the Goethe-Institut! Shame it wasn't Goethe, though. Looks as if we may never know the provenance of the quotation. Thanks again to Peter and Frank.