LIVE from the Camino Camino Ignaciano Autumn 2023

[timr]

These days, for various reasons, it takes me a lot of logistical planning at home to head off to walk, but I am happy to say everything has finally aligned and after looking at a lot of possibilities I have chosen the Camino Ignaciano. I tend to favour quieter routes and it does seem on the main Santiago routes the quieter routes (or quieter times) are getting fewer.

The Camino. Ignaciano is relatively recent - set up about 20 years ago - and retraces the journey of the Catholic saint, Ignatius of Loyola (there is also an Ignatius of Antioch) from his family home in Loyola in the Basque Country to Manresa which is near to Monserrat and Barcelona. He later continued onward to Rome. This was in 1522.

He is one of the saints who have had most impact on the Catholic Church both in terms of individual spirituality and theology and as founder of the Jesuits who have made major contributions in the fields of pastoral care, education and social engagement (especially with refugees). The Jesuit order, which flourished in his lifetime, met opposition for a while and flourished again to this day. Pope Francis is a Jesuit - the first Jesuit Pope.

There is a very useful website https://caminoignaciano.org/en/the-ignatian-way/ which has a corresponding (largish) book in both Spanish and an English version, and a recent small guide in the Bradt series by Murray Stewart, described as a ‘secular guide’. It is a very practical book with a nice ‘flavour’ of writing.

The website, and the books are excellent and necessary for planning as this is not a camino where you can just ‘turn up’. There are some long days and a few places where finding accommodation requires some judicious planning - because there nothing there!

You will notice that this subforum gets little traffic, but my own observation is that (sometimes) quality is in inverse proportion to quantity - in some forums. The quality here is high! So let me give a shout out to @MichaelSG whose magnificent blog of the full camino in 2015 - see the first post in this subforum - has been an invaluable encouragement.

I flew to Biarritz on Saturday morning and took a bus to San Sebastián and another to Loyola. Very simple and easy to find online.

Right at this moment I am about to set out on Day 2 - ‘the most difficult day of the Camino’ - from Zumarraga to Arantzatzu. The hour going back has given some useful daylight prior to 8am.

I will catch up when I can.

 

[roving_rufus]

Looking forward to hearing how it goes

 

[Kirkie]

These days, for various reasons, it takes me a lot of logistical planning at home to head off to walk, but I am happy to say everything has finally aligned and after looking at a lot of possibilities I have chosen the Camino Ignaciano. I tend to favour quieter routes and it does seem on the main Santiago routes the quieter routes (or quieter times) are getting fewer.

The Camino. Ignaciano is relatively recent - set up about 20 years ago - and retraces the journey of the Catholic saint, Ignatius of Loyola (there is also an Ignatius of Antioch) from his family home in Loyola in the Basque Country to Manresa which is near to Monserrat and Barcelona. He later continued onward to Rome. This was in 1522.

He is one of the saints who have had most impact on the Catholic Church both in terms of individual spirituality and theology and as founder of the Jesuits who have made major contributions in the fields of pastoral care, education and social engagement (especially with refugees). The Jesuit order, which flourished in his lifetime, met opposition for a while and flourished again to this day. Pope Francis is a Jesuit - the first Jesuit Pope.

There is a very useful website https://caminoignaciano.org/en/the-ignatian-way/ which has a corresponding (largish) book in both Spanish and an English version, and a recent small guide in the Bradt series by Murray Stewart, described as a ‘secular guide’. It is a very practical book with a nice ‘flavour’ of writing.

The website, and the books are excellent and necessary for planning as this is not a camino where you can just ‘turn up’. There are some long days and a few places where finding accommodation requires some judicious planning - because there nothing there!

You will notice that this subforum gets little traffic, but my own observation is that (sometimes) quality is in inverse proportion to quantity - in some forums. The quality here is high! So let me give a shout out to @MichaelSG whose magnificent blog of the full camino in 2015 - the first post here - has been an invaluable encouragement.

I flew to Biarritz on Saturday morning and took a bus to San Sebastián and another to Loyola. Very simple and easy to find online.

Right at this moment I am about to set out on Day 2 - ‘the most difficult day of the Camino’ - from Zumarraga to Arantzatzu. The hour going back has given some useful daylight prior to 8am.

I will catch up when I can.

Your first sentence shows this is no spur of the moment camino, and I am happy to see you have been able to make the space for it.
I immediately thought of @mspath with her frequent reminder: carpe diem. I then went on a search, and found this: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20170517-what-it-really-means-to-seize-the-day. Thanks for the thread, and I too look forward to your posts.

 

[SabsP]

Check!
A thread to look forward to.

All the best.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

Happy trails Tim...great to know you're back out there.
Looking forward to any updates you can muster.
Enjoy the peace & quiet.

 

[Anne F]

These days, for various reasons, it takes me a lot of logistical planning at home to head off to walk, but I am happy to say everything has finally aligned and after looking at a lot of possibilities I have chosen the Camino Ignaciano. I tend to favour quieter routes and it does seem on the main Santiago routes the quieter routes (or quieter times) are getting fewer.

The Camino. Ignaciano is relatively recent - set up about 20 years ago - and retraces the journey of the Catholic saint, Ignatius of Loyola (there is also an Ignatius of Antioch) from his family home in Loyola in the Basque Country to Manresa which is near to Monserrat and Barcelona. He later continued onward to Rome. This was in 1522.

He is one of the saints who have had most impact on the Catholic Church both in terms of individual spirituality and theology and as founder of the Jesuits who have made major contributions in the fields of pastoral care, education and social engagement (especially with refugees). The Jesuit order, which flourished in his lifetime, met opposition for a while and flourished again to this day. Pope Francis is a Jesuit - the first Jesuit Pope.

There is a very useful website https://caminoignaciano.org/en/the-ignatian-way/ which has a corresponding (largish) book in both Spanish and an English version, and a recent small guide in the Bradt series by Murray Stewart, described as a ‘secular guide’. It is a very practical book with a nice ‘flavour’ of writing.

The website, and the books are excellent and necessary for planning as this is not a camino where you can just ‘turn up’. There are some long days and a few places where finding accommodation requires some judicious planning - because there nothing there!

You will notice that this subforum gets little traffic, but my own observation is that (sometimes) quality is in inverse proportion to quantity - in some forums. The quality here is high! So let me give a shout out to @MichaelSG whose magnificent blog of the full camino in 2015 - the first post here - has been an invaluable encouragement.

I flew to Biarritz on Saturday morning and took a bus to San Sebastián and another to Loyola. Very simple and easy to find online.

Right at this moment I am about to set out on Day 2 - ‘the most difficult day of the Camino’ - from Zumarraga to Arantzatzu. The hour going back has given some useful daylight prior to 8am.

I will catch up when I can.

I have been thinking of doing part of the Ignatian camino next June so I'll be very interested to hear about your progress. Buen Camino. Keep safe and happy. Anne

 

[barmoss77]

I did this in October 2017: the first week (and the hardest walking) the easy way, with Ramblers Worldwide Holidays providing leaders, baggage transfer, and taxis where the accommodation was a few km off-route, and then when they went home I carried on walking. Enjoy!

 

[timr]

I did this in October 2017: the first week (and the hardest walking) the easy way, with Ramblers Worldwide Holidays providing leaders, baggage transfer, and taxis where the accommodation was a few km off-route, and then when they went home I carried on walking. Enjoy!

Well you know what day 2 was like today!!!! I could have used those extra helps. But ready for sightseeing now.

PS Sightseeing in Arantzatu didn’t take long. But a wonderful sense of peace. An extraordinary location.

 

[timr]

Day One Sunday 29th October
Loyola to Zumarraga 19.85km
Veering neither to left nor right

So I had plenty of time on the Saturday for sightseeing. The Sanctuary complex is a large central church, which is of a circular plan with an extended facade to right and left - so rather like the cathedral in Santiago. Completely inside this is the original home of Ignatius - a square castle of four storeys. This is very well preserved and there is a good audio guide which you can download to your phone. The family were minor nobility and much involved in the military adventures of the time. You can visit the room where Ignatius was born, the family chapel and then on the top floor what is now the ‘chapel of the conversion’ originally a bedroom, wherein Ignatius dedicated his life to God before setting out on pilgrimage to Rome. Mass is celebrated daily there, and I was able to go on Sunday morning, having attended evening Mass on Saturday in the main church. Mass is bilingual - in a mixture of castellano and Basque.

The Sanctuary is the designated starting point and I set off on Sunday mid-morning. There were very many recreational walkers and bikers on the path, which runs down the side of the sanctuary and soon brings you to Azkoitia a moderate sized town with long boulevard and many bars, so of course I had coffee. A gently rain started while I was there but throughout the day it was never heavy.

From there you soon get on to a via verde/green route. This is an old railway line very well kept as a walking and cycle track. This part of the Basque Country was quite industrial, mainly the iron industry and heavy manufacturing and the railways were important.

And this leads you all the way to Zumarraga with no turn! It is a constant climb all the way, but trains as we know take things gently so the incline was never significant (unlike tomorrow!). The path proceeds through a long series of bridges (mostly over the winding Urola River, and the road) and many many tunnels - I didn’t count but well over 20. They are mostly quite short - you can usually see daylight at the far end. And they are illuminated with fluorescent tubes and sometimes additional lighting which is motion sensitive.

The countryside is very green and as we are in the mountains more forest than farm.

Zumarraga and Urretxu are actually a double town on either side of the river Urola. It is or was an industrial town (iron works again) and nicely laid out with big plazas.

Plenty of options for eating. I was staying in a pension which I think was also housing migrants.

So not much to say. A gentle start.

The way marking was very good. Red and white GR and orange arrows. But, unless you’re going to climb off the railway, you couldn’t really get lost!

The credencial is available from the sanctuary office on the left.

 

[VNwalking]

I'll miss most of this, since tomorrow night I enter a 1-month silent retreat. But looking forward to catching up with your journey on the other end.

So a very buen camino to you, Tim! Reading between the lines I'm imagining it's very well-deserved.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

Oooh...I do love a tunnel!
The clouds behind the Sanctuary look like they've made it their centre piece.
Looking forward to your summation of Day 2 & if it was as expected.
Onward & upward (apparently unavoidable...) dear Tim!

 

[Jeff Mayor]

These days, for various reasons, it takes me a lot of logistical planning at home to head off to walk, but I am happy to say everything has finally aligned and after looking at a lot of possibilities I have chosen the Camino Ignaciano. I tend to favour quieter routes and it does seem on the main Santiago routes the quieter routes (or quieter times) are getting fewer.

The Camino. Ignaciano is relatively recent - set up about 20 years ago - and retraces the journey of the Catholic saint, Ignatius of Loyola (there is also an Ignatius of Antioch) from his family home in Loyola in the Basque Country to Manresa which is near to Monserrat and Barcelona. He later continued onward to Rome. This was in 1522.

He is one of the saints who have had most impact on the Catholic Church both in terms of individual spirituality and theology and as founder of the Jesuits who have made major contributions in the fields of pastoral care, education and social engagement (especially with refugees). The Jesuit order, which flourished in his lifetime, met opposition for a while and flourished again to this day. Pope Francis is a Jesuit - the first Jesuit Pope.

There is a very useful website https://caminoignaciano.org/en/the-ignatian-way/ which has a corresponding (largish) book in both Spanish and an English version, and a recent small guide in the Bradt series by Murray Stewart, described as a ‘secular guide’. It is a very practical book with a nice ‘flavour’ of writing.

The website, and the books are excellent and necessary for planning as this is not a camino where you can just ‘turn up’. There are some long days and a few places where finding accommodation requires some judicious planning - because there nothing there!

You will notice that this subforum gets little traffic, but my own observation is that (sometimes) quality is in inverse proportion to quantity - in some forums. The quality here is high! So let me give a shout out to @MichaelSG whose magnificent blog of the full camino in 2015 - see the first post in this subforum - has been an invaluable encouragement.

I flew to Biarritz on Saturday morning and took a bus to San Sebastián and another to Loyola. Very simple and easy to find online.

Right at this moment I am about to set out on Day 2 - ‘the most difficult day of the Camino’ - from Zumarraga to Arantzatzu. The hour going back has given some useful daylight prior to 8am.

I will catch up when I can.

Thoughtful and well thought out post. I walked Zaragosa to Logrona in 2019 with an additional walk from Montserrat to Manresa. Met only two other pilgrims: two Jesuits monks who walked without money or phones. My wife and I made no plans ahead of time for meals or beds. Mostly flat following the Ebro river into Logrona. I'm sometimes ambivalent when people start posting about unexplored and quiet Caminos because of course that's how they become popular and then
lose their solitude. Good luck on your journey.

 

[timr]

I'm sometimes ambivalent when people start posting about unexplored and quiet Caminos because of course that's how they become popular and then
lose their solitude. Good luck on your journey.

Yes that is a risk!! I was hesitant to share my experience on Ruta Baztan some years ago for that reason…but I did!!

 

[timr]

I'll miss most of this, since tomorrow night I enter a 1-month silent retreat. But looking forward to catching up with your journey on the other end.

So a very buen camino to you, Tim! Reading between the lines I'm imagining it's very well-deserved.

Have a wonderful month! X

 

[VNwalking]

Many thanks, Tim.
You as well - buen camino!

 

[timr]

Day Two Monday 30th October
Zumarraga to Arantzatu 20.12 km
To a Basque shrine of the Blessed Virgin……but not THAT one

I quite often give up reading guidebooks (which I love and alway more are better) as I walk. So when I was walking to Rome, I didn’t know the day from Martigny to Orsières was universally declared the most difficult day of the route. Mainly due to fallen trees and avalanches and a bit of climbing while holding chains along the valley wall. Having succeeded in making my way I didn’t find it as difficult as I might, I think.

But Day Two of the Camino Ignaciano is before I have given up reading, so I did know in advance. And it is described as “the most difficult day”! It is not long - there are some days 10km or more longer later. But it is the steep climbing. Look at the profile below.

I was up relatively early (sunrise is about 7:45 now after the hour went back). And I decided to step it out for first 5km before the climb began, So I was in Legazpi before 9am and had breakfast. Then I set out. There were still quite a lot of recreational bikers along the way, which was encouraging. The walk was often through non-native (I imagine) pine forests and headed up to an embalse or dam. After that, the climb began. And seemed like it would never stop. From below 400m to 1200m (which is 4,000 feet) over a little under 10 km. It was a cycleable path for a good part of the way, though I wouldn’t fancy it and then it became a sort of rocky scree. Of course there were great views. And a surprising number of high altitude horses and cows, all with bells. But it was tough, not particularly on the legs but on the breathing at that stage.

There is a quite misleading bit half way up where you start going down, significantly for a few hundred metres, but this is a very false dawn.

At the top there is a kind of small plateau, but very quickly you are heading down again. Shortly after reaching the plateau a lovely young couple - Basque boy and Dutch girl caught up with me. As fit as can be. We knew we would meet at the end of the day. They are doing a week’s worth from Loyola.

Three problems emerged going down. It is easily as steep again. The path has a significant tendency to disappear, even though the waymarking is generally good, and then the underfoot was very difficult - big rocks sticking out of the ground like teeth and long stretches where you needed to think very carefully where to put your next foot. Both I and the two other pilgrims lost our respective ways on the way down. We were all using GPS and even when you knew you were wrong it was quite hard to get back. Obviously going down is always going to be correct, but you are aiming for a single small settlement so intuition could lead you astray. My rate of progress was reduced to 1km/hour for a stretch of 2 km .

But of course, everything comes to an end and after eight hours I reached Arantzazu. It is pretty well in the middle of nowhere and is a shrine commemorating a Marian apparition - well sort of. In 1468 a pastor found an unexplained image of Our Lady in a bush. “Arantzazu?” He said: “You, in a thorn bush?” Devotion soon developed and Franciscan Friars have cared for the place since 1499. There was great devotion among Basques and Ignatius called in on his way to Manresa, although he probably came around the long way on a horse. And of course, a significant part of his personal story is that he was injured by a cannon ball and had a badly set leg, so let us be sympathetic. The story of the finding of an image is very similar to that of the great shrine of Aparecida in Brazil. I met an old friar who assured me Ignatius had visited. The proprietor of my hotel told me she didn’t believe it!

Various churches have been built and in turn they have been burned by accident and deliberately. The present church dates from the 1950s. It is BIZARRELY big and in a sort of brutalist modernist Basque design. The Basques are famous for architecture and the arts. I would guess it could seat maybe 2000? You enter through a low level. It is full of wood and galleries and very modern murals and some stained glass. There was no one else but me there for 30 minutes. Below there is a crypt which you could easily miss, full of quite strange modern murals again.

There are no shops, for books, or pamphlets or pious objects. If you had come all this way for a statue, or a fridge magnet or a snow globe you would be disappointed. There is no village attached. Just three or four hotels - two closed, a museum - closed. And to this day it is immensely popular locally, with a huge car and coach park and it evidently fills to overflowing for several important feast days - though not All Saints, tomorrow. But for all the world it was like walking on to the Marie Celeste.

By chance the three of us were staying in the same cheerful family hotel (Sindika). The Franciscans have an enormous hotel, overlooking the ravine on which everything hangs. That seemed to be closed too. We had a pleasant supper and chatted until we were tired, and needed to go and prepare for another tough day’s climb. It is fairly high up still (though not 4,000 feet) and was distinctly chilly at night and in the morning.

If you ask most present day Catholics to name the Basque shrine of Our Lady they would of course say Lourdes, in the Pyrenees. But that is a much more recent arrival - dating from 1858 - and they have capitalised much more on it - I have been many times and walked to SdC from there once.

But Arantzazu certainly worth a diversion as the Michelin Guide used to say.

A possibility to shorten the hardest day would have been to walk on to Legazpi - a very level 5km - the night before. There is a ‘nice hotel’ there.

[I am having a lot of trouble attaching images - I rarely do it and may be doing it wrong, but I think the problem is the bandwidth of the hotel wifi. I cannot make it reliably allow me to post thumbnails.]

 

[VNwalking]

So glad to see this before I disappear.
On the map you look not far from the Tunel San Adrian on the Vasco. That's no small climb too.

“You, in a bush?”

What is it about Madonnas stuck in trees? There is a shrine in Belgium we passed on the Via Monastica with a story like that.

Basilica of Our Lady of Scherpenheuvel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[timr]

So glad to see this before I disappear.
On the map you look not far from the Tunel San Adrian on the Vasco. That's no small climb too.


What is it about Madonnas stuck in trees? There is a shrine in Belgium we passed on the Via Monastica with a story like that.

Basilica of Our Lady of Scherpenheuvel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Is it a sacred meme??

And yes of course you are correct. Somewhere on day three (the day after this) I must have crossed the Vasco Interior, and quite close in fact to the St Adrian tunnel, but I didn’t notice it. I read an account somewhere of someone who got lost on that day and found themself heading for the tunnel.
If the weather had been bad, that route was my reserve for this trip.

 

[Kirkie]

So glad to see this before I disappear.
On the map you look not far from the Tunel San Adrian on the Vasco. That's no small climb too.


What is it about Madonnas stuck in trees? There is a shrine in Belgium we passed on the Via Monastica with a story like that.

Basilica of Our Lady of Scherpenheuvel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So glad you referenced the above before you disappeared! Lots of new information, and plenty to ponder over, regarding past belief and practice. Sorry if this is slightly hijacking the OP. It is still about pilgrimage!

 

[timr]

Betty Gonzy asked an interesting question on FB and Lee Tolman also contributed. Sometimes hard to synchronize people across the social media! I prefer (of course) this forum to FB - but if you don’t keep posting on FB some very kind and caring people think you are dead! And I mean this particularly when you are undertaking lone journeys.

So it was the question of the validity of the profile ‘pictures’ we get from apps. They can be very misleading - the X and Y axes are often stretched or compressed to fit the screen, so they can be misleading in different ways. Betty asked how Day 2 of this Camino compares with the Lepoeder Pass. And it is interesting - the Lepoeder Pass reaches a higher altitude but gets there much more slowly. The altitudes we are talking of here are not of themselves a problem, it is the inclination which is difficult - especially to aging bodies. I had no problem with legs or feet here on the CI - it was getting out of breath from the effort of unrelenting ascent.

So here are the two side by side. Although the Lepoeder gets higher it does this over a significantly longer horizontal distance and also the descent to Roncesvalles is not as great.

And as Lee and I agreed - So what? We are going to do it anyway!

 

[timr]

Another thing I am not sure of, but on which I am sure someone can enlighten me, and again it came up during discussion here and elsewhere.

Somewhere on Day 3 (Arantaztu to Araia/San Román) I think, I crossed the Vasco Interior. I didn’t notice it. But I recently read a blog or post ‘somewhere’ of ‘someone’ who got lost on that day and found themselves heading for the Tunel itself not too far away.

And then possibly on Day 4 I think I must have crossed the eastern end of the Olvidado, but again I am not quite sure where.

There is an abundance of routes in these parts, intersecting, and more to come: I will be walking ‘backwards from Navarette to Logroño on Sunday. I remember when walking the Baztan getting diverted unwittingly into perhaps the start of the Norte?

@KinkyOne - you are very good on these connections. And many others I know are too.

 

[timr]

Day Three Tuesday 31 October
Arantzatu to San Román (via Araia) 20.99 [total 70.96]
How do they manage Scrabble?

Well rested, it was easy to get up and breakfast was available at 8 and was generous. The Sindika Hotel certainly to be recommended. There was also an albergue. For various (irrelevant) reasons I am (unusually) not staying In albergues on this trip.

The onward path passes the hotel and is much easier overall than yesterday’s. Most of it would be feasible on a mountain bike and the local pilgrim I met - who hails from the end of today’s stages, just about 1km from Araia - had often cycled it, though he says there are several different routes.

The road was well waymarked throughout. A much gentler but still significant climb up to a gentle plateau. There were many people walking - local people on shorter loops. People are fit in this country! The plateau was beautiful and grassy and a place of pasture for sheep but not at this time of year. And still plenty of horses and the odd cow to be encountered. Other walkers may be following a number of other paths, some going much higher, so it is important to keep an eye on the markers.

Strangely you soon come upon a well kept church (Ermita de Urbia) and then a bar open Wednesday to Sunday - complete with a red British telephone box. The views are beautiful - tranquil wide vistas. And you are not going to get lost - wayfinding is easy. Your GPX will show you various options where you can choose to take the ‘road’ rather than the footpath. I always feel that forests and getting lost go together and the non-paved road can be a bit easier requiring less agonising! Paths through trees can be a little bit imaginary.

The descent is gentle and ten times easier than yesterday’s! And you reach Araia, a very pretty village/town with welcoming and pilgrim-friendly Bar Kuttuna. But no accommodation. So what to do? There are two options a little further on in San Román and they are only a few metres apart, The Hotel Andamur, which is a superior truck stop (with a special rate for pilgrims - if you book direct, and the Pension El Ventorro opposite which is more like a bar/restaurant with rooms. I chose the former and thought it was amazing value with a superb meal available all day until 11pm at E12.90, with a BIG choice. And if you so wished you could add a litre of beer for E2.

San Román is officially four km beyond Araia,

I have a personal rule. After 3pm, no one needs any further bosky rococo curlicues on their personal GPX trace. Turn to Euclid and his disciple Google. A straight line is the shortest distance between two points. The official route involves a few rustic pirouettes and the need to jump down off the platform and cross the tracks in a railway station. And yes it is illegal. The main road with great visibility and admittedly quite a lot of large trucks takes just 2.9km, It is a choice! I concur with Murray Stewart whose Brandt Guide is absolutely invaluable.

One slight complication all the time is that nearly every place you pass through or head towards has two names - one in Castellano and one in Basque. So signposts are not as useful as they may be as these tend to be in Euskara, but Google and the official GPX and your guidebook will tend towards Castellano. But this is not anything to lose sleep over.

Scrabble though. A cursory examination of signs and posters in Eusakara will convince you very quickly that K,X,Z are very common. So you will soon run out of steam with an English Scrabble set. But of course this must be true for many other languages (written in Latin script) also. The Dutch pilgrim i met tells me that Dutch Scrabble sets have a lot of extra Zs.

 

[Bradypus]

What is it about Madonnas stuck in trees? There is a shrine in Belgium we passed on the Via Monastica with a story like that.

Pretty widespread phenomenon. One not far from me in Wales who couldn't be pulled out of her tree by eight oxen!

Penrhys - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

So here are the two side by side. Although the Lepoeder gets higher it does this over a significantly longer horizontal distance and also the descent to Roncesvalles is not as great.

Tim, I created the profiles for SJPdP to Roncesvalles. Comparing them to the profile you supplied you have a steep uphill of about 700 meters extending for about 6 km from the 10 km mark to 16 km. That's about an 11% to 12% grade.

Here's what I wrote about my SJPdP profiles:

On both the Napoleon and Valcarlos routes there are 3 km stretches that average a 15% slope. On the Napoleon from the 4.0 km mark to the 7.0 km mark (with an elevation gain of 450 m). The same elevation gain can be seen on the Valcarlos route between the 18.5 and 21.5 km marks. Also note that, although the Napoleon reaches a higher elevation, the cumulative elevation gains are about the same (N=1398 m, V=1359 m).​

So, your steep part of the slope isn't a steep as the steepest on stage one of the CF but it's close and it goes twice as far.

 

[timr]

Tim, I created the profiles for SJPdP to Roncesvalles. Comparing them to the profile you supplied you have a steep uphill of about 700 meters extending for about 6 km from the 10 km mark to 16 km. That's about an 11% to 12% grade.

Here's what I wrote about my SJPdP profiles:

On both the Napoleon and Valcarlos routes there are 3 km stretches that average a 15% slope. On the Napoleon from the 4.0 km mark to the 7.0 km mark (with an elevation gain of 450 m). The same elevation gain can be seen on the Valcarlos route between the 18.5 and 21.5 km marks. Also note that, although the Napoleon reaches a higher elevation, the cumulative elevation gains are about the same (N=1398 m, V=1359 m).​

So, your steep part of the slope isn't a steep as the steepest on stage one of the CF but it's close and it goes twice as far.

Excellent info! Thanks.

Four days on, it is a happy memory. The breathlessness forgotten. The breathtaking views unforgettable!

And equally it is a l-o-n-g time since I walked from SJPdP, (2009) and I certainly didn’t look at any profiles in those days nor do I remember its being difficult - but I was 14 years younger!! And on that occasion it was not my day one, as I had started in Lourdes.

 

[timr]

Day Four November 1 18.75 Km [Total ]
San Roman to Alda
Sheep may safely graze – but not birds

I was rather sad to leave my luxurious truck stop. It brought back very different memories of an overnight stay in a ‘hotel-attached-to-a-petrol station’ in Albania.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/via-egnatia-towards-jerusalem.61758/

It is on Day 4 post 41

There was a great buzz in the morning as the men had a hasty breakfast before getting on the road, perhaps to travel 500km. My aim was much more modest. I was able to buy a couple of bars of chocolate while marvelling at the truckers’ supermarket – an amazing mix of all necessities. Fluffy toys to bring back to children, gifts for wives (not any female truckers here – in fact when I think about it there was not one woman dining last night), industrial clothing, spare parts for vehicles, luxury foods and drinks, books, a huge array of satnavs and an interesting collection of small cooking items that would fit within the cab of a lorry – a microwave not much bigger than a shoe box. One driver asked where I was headed today and laughed when I said about 20km.

Just as I left there was a shower, but not one to worry about. Today’s stage, and why am I not surprised, begins with a sharp ascent to a plateau. This is becoming the norm. The path begins less than a km from the hotel and is a wide track up which four-wheel vehicles would have no difficulty ascending. And there were in fact quite a lot of SUVs parked under the trees.

Two reasons for this. It is November 1st, All Saints, and a religious and civil fiesta. So people out for recreation. The immediate local recreation here is shooting pigeons. So soon there was the sound of shotguns, lots and lots. And if you look closely you see big metal (permanent) ladders going up high into trees to hides built there. And usually a faithful dog standing at the foot. I greeted a hunter and asked him was I safe. Yes he said, we only shoot arriba. Not fully reassuring as I was heading (again) past 1000m which seemed pretty arriba to me! The hunters were of good cheer. There was the odd unfortunate bird lying on the ground. Then one of those magical camino moments! I heard distant tinkling increasing in volume. And then a young lad and his younger sister appeared at the head of maybe 200 or so sheep, four abreast, speeding down the path, with a huge cacophony of bells around their necks. These are the Latxa sheep, providing milk for the local Idiazabal cheese – which I enjoyed several times. At the end of the torrent of sheep came a young shepherd and his very young daughter, and one small collie-like dog. A very efficient operation.

The only difficulty today was mud. The path up to the plateau is muddy always, apparently. Even when it is not rain. There had been recent rain and at times it was necessary to plough on through sucking mud, although usually it was possible to skirt, or occasionally divert into a field to the side. It significantly slowed progress at times, but manageable. Chatting with a walker up on the top I was telling him about the mud, but couldn’t remember the word (barro or fango) and pointed to my boots and trousers. He used a word then which was not the word for mud, and which I will not be able to use along the way. But he made the point that the mud was seriously bad!!

I was soon up on the plateau and thereafter there were great views and no difficulties. The paths are multiple, with lots of loops for recreation and indeed on this fiesta there were many workers including several groups of school children – with their shepherds!

There is a stretch where you walk along a ‘balcony’ looking down to a sheer drop into the plains of Álava. This extends for a kilometre or more. You are indeed, as the book warns, very near the edge at times. However, I have a poor head for heights, certainly for recreational heights. I can do it if I need to. This to me at no time felt uncomfortable and I was able to enjoy the views. Particular care would be be necessary in fog or snow!

The path thereafter a gentle descent, and Alda soon appears in the distance. As does Ullibarri which you pass through a couple of kilometres before Alda.

I had booked ahead in the only option, the casa rural Biltegi Etxea. Very welcoming. I had an interesting conversation in a loud mixture of Euskara and Castellano with one of the household. He had been ‘celebrating’ the feast day I think. I learned he was a supporter of Real Sociedad, that I could drink unlimited quantities in the house of herbal tea, for zero cost, and that dinner would be at 8pm. Food was great.

 

[Kirkie]

Those were the days of travelling with a 20kg suitcase in the hold, stuffed with treats such as the very cheese you refer to! Thanks for your reports.

 

[roving_rufus]

The Vasco Interior/Via Bayona crosses the Ignaciano at Zumarraundi - with the Vacso heading right to Zalduondo which has a small pilgrim welcome/albergue but no bar (or one with irregular opening) and Ignaciano heading left to Araia.

 

[timr]

Quick update.

I am still alive(!) (people do wonder) and still walking. Today is Day 17 I think, Tuesday 14 November. I reached Zaragoza on Sunday and it is the half way stage. I had a day off on Monday and am starting again today to walk to Fuentes de Ebro and then….into the desert the following day.

I will update the Live blog when I get time. Long days and not always good wifi have got in the way. And I have to admit was distracted yesterday by political shenanigans in UK.

It is proving to be wonderful solitary walk, full of interest. I met just one person coming in the other direction - someone I knew. The meeting was an entirely unexpected. The couple I met on the way to Arantzazu finished up (for this year) in Logroño.

The weather is balmy and more - it was 26 in the afternoon here yesterday. Hoping for a little bit less for the days in the Monegro desert. Effectively no rain and none of the troublesome storms affecting other parts of Europe and other parts of Spain.

 

[Kirkie]

Quick update.

I am still alive(!) (people do wonder) and still walking. Today is Day 17 I think, Tuesday 14 November. I reached Zaragoza on Sunday and it is the half way stage. I had a day off on Monday and am starting again today to walk to Fuentes de Ebro and then….into the desert the following day.

I will update the Live blog when I get time. Long days and not always good wifi have got in the way. And I have to admit was distracted yesterday by political shenanigans in UK.

It is proving to be wonderful solitary walk, full of interest. I met just one person coming in the other direction - someone I knew. The meeting was an entirely unexpected. The couple I met on the way to Arantzazu finished up (for this year) in Logroño.

The weather is balmy and more - it was 26 in the afternoon here yesterday. Hoping for a little bit less for the days in the Monegro desert. Effectively no rain and none of the troublesome storms affecting other parts of Europe and other parts of Spain.

How I love the sound of Arantzazu!
Never mind the shenanigans, timr.
It will all come out in the wash.
I thank my God, and yes, he lives deep within, that my parents are well gone and safe from all this junk!
What a joy for you to meet someone known, unexpectedly!
Great to hear you are still alive, indeed.
I lived in a suburb of Zaragoza, poor, in the early 90s.
We did venture betimes into the city, and so am familiar with the splendid church del Pilar...
buen camino, and till the next posting...

 

[NualaOC]

Hi Tim, how did I miss this?! Great to read your posts - it sounds like a very interesting route.

Re. overlaps with the Vasco - it looks like your first day included some of Bolitx's Great Western Walk. He devotes a few (rambling!) pages to the Urola Green Way and his walk to Zumarraga.
I made the connection as I remembered the parrot story and had to check if it was the same place!

Not part of the Vasco as such, but on his self-styled route from Zumaia. He joined the Vasco the next day in Zerain.

Something to (re) read when you're back home!

Hope the temperatures drop a little in the coming days.

Nuala

 

[nycwalking]

Quick update.

I am still alive(!) (people do wonder) and still walking. Today is Day 17 I think, Tuesday 14 November. I reached Zaragoza on Sunday and it is the half way stage. I had a day off on Monday and am starting again today to walk to Fuentes de Ebro and then….into the desert the following day.

I will update the Live blog when I get time. Long days and not always good wifi have got in the way. And I have to admit was distracted yesterday by political shenanigans in UK.

It is proving to be wonderful solitary walk, full of interest. I met just one person coming in the other direction - someone I knew. The meeting was an entirely unexpected. The couple I met on the way to Arantzazu finished up (for this year) in Logroño.

The weather is balmy and more - it was 26 in the afternoon here yesterday. Hoping for a little bit less for the days in the Monegro desert. Effectively no rain and none of the troublesome storms affecting other parts of Europe and other parts of Spain.

World has gone around the bend.

Perfect time to walk the way.

Post as you are able.

Buen camino.

 

[Sitkapilgrim]

Quick update.

I am still alive(!) (people do wonder) and still walking. Today is Day 17 I think, Tuesday 14 November. I reached Zaragoza on Sunday and it is the half way stage. I had a day off on Monday and am starting again today to walk to Fuentes de Ebro and then….into the desert the following day.

I will update the Live blog when I get time. Long days and not always good wifi have got in the way. And I have to admit was distracted yesterday by political shenanigans in UK.

It is proving to be wonderful solitary walk, full of interest. I met just one person coming in the other direction - someone I knew. The meeting was an entirely unexpected. The couple I met on the way to Arantzazu finished up (for this year) in Logroño.

The weather is balmy and more - it was 26 in the afternoon here yesterday. Hoping for a little bit less for the days in the Monegro desert. Effectively no rain and none of the troublesome storms affecting other parts of Europe and other parts of Spain.

 

[Sitkapilgrim]

Tim - Thank you for your detailed account of your first few days on the Ignaciano. I had planned to walk it starting 9 November 2023 but the weather looked too challenging with high wind warnings that week, so I walked the Camino del Interior instead. I'm currently planning to start the Ignaciano March 1. Those first few days, well, not day one, but day 2, 3 and 4 worry me a bit, with those very big hills to go up and down, so I appreciate your detailed account.
Did you ever write up much of the rest of your journey, perhaps in a blog somewhere? Just curious. And are you the Tim who wrote an article in the Confraternity of Pilgrims to Rome about the southern continuation of the VF from Rome to Brindisi - another walk I hope to do some day?

 

[timr]

Tim - Thank you for your detailed account of your first few days on the Ignaciano. I had planned to walk it starting 9 November 2023 but the weather looked too challenging with high wind warnings that week, so I walked the Camino del Interior instead. I'm currently planning to start the Ignaciano March 1. Those first few days, well, not day one, but day 2, 3 and 4 worry me a bit, with those very big hills to go up and down, so I appreciate your detailed account.
Did you ever write up much of the rest of your journey, perhaps in a blog somewhere? Just curious. And are you the Tim who wrote an article in the Confraternity of Pilgrims to Rome about the southern continuation of the VF from Rome to Brindisi - another walk I hope to do some day?

Hello! Sorry for some reason I missed this when you posted.
I guess you have successfully navigated the mountains by now. Yes I seem to remember writing on VF del Sud for CPR a while back, but I cannot find it! I have walked on to S Maria de Leuca, and also from Durres in Albania on to Thessaloniki