- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
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Thank you! Love, and blessings.there is a "rule" which would state that a person has to be baptised into the Catholic Church in order to be in communion with it and therefore receive communion. !
Everyone who is baptised is baptised into the Christian Faith.
If a Christian is unable to partake in worship within their own denomination (which happens for the members all the reformed churches when travelling in Northern Spain) then they are free to partake fully in the Catholic Mass, which obviously includes receiving holy communion.
Recently (just a few weeks back) the wife of Catholic who was not herself a Catholic asked Pope Francis if she could receive Communion when she accompanied her husband to Mass and he indicated very clearly that she was free to do so.
I hope this helps to clarify the situation for you Deborah.
Jesus prayed "That they all may be one" and we continue to pray it
... If a Christian is unable to partake in worship within their own denomination (which happens for the members all the reformed churches when travelling in Northern Spain) then they are free to partake fully in the Catholic Mass, which obviously includes receiving holy communion. ...
First of all you might want to join this private forum here https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/social-forums/non-catholics-on-the-camino.3/ where such matters can be discussed without offending the forum rules. That groups has been very quiet, so participation would be beneficial to a lot of us.
As an Anglo-Catholic (Church of England) I agree with you that receiving Communion on the Camino is a tremendous source of strength, but sadly, officially we are not welcomed (nor are any other members of Churches that are not in full communion with the Roman-Catholic Church - and yes, that means also Espicopalians) to do so by the Roman-Catholic Church. As I arrived after more than 3,000 km pilgrimage in Santiago I actually heard it pronounced in the cathedral itself 'please remember that only Roman-Catholics that are in good standing with our own Church are allowed to come forward to receive the Holy Sacrament.
What I did during my pilgrimage, but bear in mind that I am a fluent Spanish speaker, was always to ask the officiating priest if I would be allowed to take Communion, explaining that I did believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Most of them welcomed me, some went out of their way to do so, some rejected me. The sad reality of the divided body of Christ ...
As for the woman you mentioned not consuming the host immediately, that is one of the several reasons many priests are so careful about whom to give the sacrament to/the reason for the aforementioned announcement in Santiago cathedral. It is a holy/sacred thing and somebody partaking in it without being aware of that sacredness is frankly a huge problem. SY
If a Christian is unable to partake in worship within their own denomination (which happens for the members all the reformed churches when travelling in Northern Spain)
I'm pretty sure that quote was from when Christ was in a room with a dozen or so apostles, not during the sermon on the mount.I won't comment on laws and rules of churches. All I can say is right at the high point of the Mass, the priest, quoting Jesus' words at the Last Supper, holds up the host and says, "Take this, ALL OF YOU, and eat it. This is my body..."
And a moment later, he holds up the chalice, and says, "take this ALL OF YOU, and drink from it..."
Not sure what part of that people don't understand.
... and investigate what Rebekah so rightly mentions. Notice the crowds lining up for Communion who don't worry (ignore?) about the "rules and regulations".[...] if you are not familiar with rite then you should not be participating. In this situation is it far better to remain seated, observe, and learn. [...]
Yes, I heard that too in Santiago recently.At the last Pilgrims Mass I attended in Santiago there was a very clear instruction given, in many languages including English, that those "baptised into the Catholoc faith" were invited to take communion.
I never do, but that is a personal decision.
Pray sister, the Holy Spirit gives light to many thingsWhile I am Church of England (Anglican, Protestant), and have been both baptised and confirmed into this faith, I was educated for most of my school years in a Roman Catholic boarding school. While we non-Catholics rarely went to Mass or received Holy Communion, we learned a deep understanding of the Catholic faith.
I've only walked for a few days (so far) but I did attend the Pilgrim Mass in Roncesvalles. I knew it would be wrong for me to take Communion though I really wanted to. I did go up to the altar and receive a blessing. I tried explaining to several people why a non-Catholic should not receive Communion, yet few seemed to be bothered about it, and said they'd go up for it if they felt like it.
Maybe it's a Camino lesson for me to learn, that while I really would like to receive Communion I cannot, yet those who aren't particularly bothered will do so regardless. But even in those first days I found myself feeling resentful of their nonchalance. I'm sure God and the Holy Spirit forgives them, so why does it feel like a sin for me to do what they do?
Thanks for that response. Before I shoot my mouth off which it looks I'm going to do anyway and to quote somebody I don't know who, "What would Jesus Do?" The answer is obvious to me.I won't comment on laws and rules of churches. All I can say is right at the high point of the Mass, the priest, quoting Jesus' words at the Last Supper, holds up the host and says, "Take this, ALL OF YOU, and eat it. This is my body..."
And a moment later, he holds up the chalice, and says, "take this ALL OF YOU, and drink from it..."
Not sure what part of that people don't understand.
As an Episcopalian, I took Holy Communion along the Way, and found it to be very comforting and important to my journey and spiritual growth.
I did have some really wonderful Protestant friends tell me that technically, they could not take Communion as it was given in Catholic churches, but I --as an Episcopalian who recites the Nicene Creed every Sunday--felt that it was appropriate. I had also done a bit of research to learn that it was appropriate and acceptable for me to do this.
Question:
1. Have any of the rest of you struggled with whether it is acceptable or not?
2. I had read in this forum--somewhere--that Episcopalians were okay to take Communion.
This is not a religious debate, but just information gathering, so please be careful and don't violate Forum policy here.
I will note that the first and only time I have EVER seen a priest leave Communion providing was when a woman took Communion at SdC and did not eat the wafer. He literally raced down the aisle to have her eat the wafer. All in attendance were rather shocked that she did not seem to know what the significance was and just tried to quietly respect the situation as it unfolded.
Hi Deb, I'll keep this brief so as not to get too 'far off' the Camino. As a non-catholic, I did do a self-retreat at a a Benedictine Monastery in Elgin, Scotland several years ago. While I did not partake of communion, with arms crossed in front of my heart, I did received a blessing from the Abbott. It's something you do that tells them you are not of the Catholic religion.
Thanks--Deb
While I am Church of England (Anglican, Protestant), and have been both baptised and confirmed into this faith, I was educated for most of my school years in a Roman Catholic boarding school. While we non-Catholics rarely went to Mass or received Holy Communion, we learned a deep understanding of the Catholic faith.
I've only walked for a few days (so far) but I did attend the Pilgrim Mass in Roncesvalles. I knew it would be wrong for me to take Communion though I really wanted to. I did go up to the altar and receive a blessing. I tried explaining to several people why a non-Catholic should not receive Communion, yet few seemed to be bothered about it, and said they'd go up for it if they felt like it.
Maybe it's a Camino lesson for me to learn, that while I really would like to receive Communion I cannot, yet those who aren't particularly bothered will do so regardless. But even in those first days I found myself feeling resentful of their nonchalance. I'm sure God and the Holy Spirit forgives them, so why does it feel like a sin for me to do what they do?
As an Episcopalian, I took Holy Communion along the Way, and found it to be very comforting and important to my journey and spiritual growth.
I did have some really wonderful Protestant friends tell me that technically, they could not take Communion as it was given in Catholic churches, but I --as an Episcopalian who recites the Nicene Creed every Sunday--felt that it was appropriate. I had also done a bit of research to learn that it was appropriate and acceptable for me to do this.
Question:
1. Have any of the rest of you struggled with whether it is acceptable or not?
2. I had read in this forum--somewhere--that Episcopalians were okay to take Communion.
This is not a religious debate, but just information gathering, so please be careful and don't violate Forum policy here.
I will note that the first and only time I have EVER seen a priest leave Communion providing was when a woman took Communion at SdC and did not eat the wafer. He literally raced down the aisle to have her eat the wafer. All in attendance were rather shocked that she did not seem to know what the significance was and just tried to quietly respect the situation as it unfolded.
Thanks--Deb
I am a Roman Catholic, but feel strongly that when on a true pilgrimage, Our Lord should be available to all who believe. I am going to dare to say the obvious: how would an officiating priest know if one was Catholic or not? If you present yourself you will not be turned away. Jesus didn't turn people away.First of all you might want to join this private forum here https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/social-forums/non-catholics-on-the-camino.3/ where such matters can be discussed without offending the forum rules. That groups has been very quiet, so participation would be beneficial to a lot of us.
As an Anglo-Catholic (Church of England) I agree with you that receiving Communion on the Camino is a tremendous source of strength, but sadly, officially we are not welcomed (nor are any other members of Churches that are not in full communion with the Roman-Catholic Church - and yes, that means also Espicopalians) to do so by the Roman-Catholic Church. As I arrived after more than 3,000 km pilgrimage in Santiago I actually heard it pronounced in the cathedral itself 'please remember that only Roman-Catholics that are in good standing with our own Church are allowed to come forward to receive the Holy Sacrament.
What I did during my pilgrimage, but bear in mind that I am a fluent Spanish speaker, was always to ask the officiating priest if I would be allowed to take Communion, explaining that I did believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Most of them welcomed me, some went out of their way to do so, some rejected me. The sad reality of the divided body of Christ ...
As for the woman you mentioned not consuming the host immediately, that is one of the several reasons many priests are so careful about whom to give the sacrament to/the reason for the aforementioned announcement in Santiago cathedral. It is a holy/sacred thing and somebody partaking in it without being aware of that sacredness is frankly a huge problem. SY
Thank you, Father. Very helpful.At my parish I never ask to see anyone's 'paperwork'. I recite the Invitation to Communion from the Book of Common Prayer (1928), and anyone who can then come in good faith to the rail is offered Communion. If I err I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity.
I'll stack my catholic bona fides up against anybody's, but I also feel that it would be disrespectful for me to enter a Roman church and then deliberately violate its 'closed communion' rule.' On the Camino I go to Mass just about every chance I get, but I do not receive. Its more a matter of common courtesy than theology for me. (But I confess that I'm not much of a theologian!)
I also feel that it would be disrespectful for me to enter a Roman church and then deliberately violate its 'closed communion' rule.
I was raised that this was just the respectful thing to do - to honor the church you were in's beliefs
I could tell you what I ask, but the problem would be to understand the priests answer and his subsequent questions about your beliefs regarding the Eucharist. SY
I realise that, but thank you. I have also only just realised it's YOUR book I have on my kindle! So thank you again, very much, for all your helpful advice which I took advantage of before setting off on the first few steps of my Camino.
Maybe it's a Camino lesson for me to learn, that while I really would like to receive Communion I cannot, yet those who aren't particularly bothered will do so regardless. But even in those first days I found myself feeling resentful of their nonchalance. I'm sure God and the Holy Spirit forgives them, so why does it feel like a sin for me to do what they do?
I am sitting here crying as I read through these posts, as I think of the brokenness of the body of Christ. The suffering, the pain, and it still goes on.
I am a committed Roman Catholic, yet I know that most of Luther's condemnations of the authorities within the church at the time were fully justified. Right down through the centuries those with responsibility often used their positions for their own pride and comfort and power, and failed to "feed my Sheep" as Peter had been requested.
What divides us are small theological technicalities. I often wonder how men can be so proud as to think that they know exactly all about God, so much so that they are determined to stick to their own way of thinking even if it means division between Christians.
Years or even centuries of 'doing' or 'thinking' does not necessarily make a thing correct. It is good to keep an open heart and mind. Often change happens from below. ( I was thrown out of the line for communion one winters morning at 7.30 by an old biddy because I had no hat on. I was eight at the time. I was so upset that I stopped going to daily Mass and so ashamed that I would not even tell my mother why. Nowadays nobody wears a hat!!)
Let me conclude with the words of the Prophet Micah said, "Let us act justly, love tenderly and walk humbly before the Lord our God."
I was just thinking the exact same thing! We have become such a respectful forum. It's quite remarkable. Bravo us indeed!May I say how much I have enjoyed this thread? No moderating needed, on such a delicate subject. I suppose that when it trully matters we all know how to behave. Bravo us!
I enjoy you so much. You have such a kind heart.I am sitting here crying as I read through these posts, as I think of the brokenness of the body of Christ. The suffering, the pain, and it still goes on.
I am a committed Roman Catholic, yet I know that most of Luther's condemnations of the authorities within the church at the time were fully justified. Right down through the centuries those with responsibility often used their positions for their own pride and comfort and power, and failed to "feed my Sheep" as Peter had been requested.
What divides us are small theological technicalities. I often wonder how men can be so proud as to think that they know exactly all about God, so much so that they are determined to stick to their own way of thinking even if it means division between Christians.
Years or even centuries of 'doing' or 'thinking' does not necessarily make a thing correct. It is good to keep an open heart and mind. Often change happens from below. ( I was thrown out of the line for communion one winters morning at 7.30 by an old biddy because I had no hat on. I was eight at the time. I was so upset that I stopped going to daily Mass and so ashamed that I would not even tell my mother why. Nowadays nobody wears a hat!!)
Let me conclude with the words of the Prophet Micah said, "Let us act justly, love tenderly and walk humbly before the Lord our God."
As an Episcopalian, I took Holy Communion along the Way, and found it to be very comforting and important to my journey and spiritual growth.
I did have some really wonderful Protestant friends tell me that technically, they could not take Communion as it was given in Catholic churches, but I --as an Episcopalian who recites the Nicene Creed every Sunday--felt that it was appropriate. I had also done a bit of research to learn that it was appropriate and acceptable for me to do this.
Question:
1. Have any of the rest of you struggled with whether it is acceptable or not?
2. I had read in this forum--somewhere--that Episcopalians were okay to take Communion.
This is not a religious debate, but just information gathering, so please be careful and don't violate Forum policy here.
I will note that the first and only time I have EVER seen a priest leave Communion providing was when a woman took Communion at SdC and did not eat the wafer. He literally raced down the aisle to have her eat the wafer. All in attendance were rather shocked that she did not seem to know what the significance was and just tried to quietly respect the situation as it unfolded.
Thanks--Deb
These words were spoken by Jesus at the Last Supper. His speech finished with the words "Do this in memory of me" what he did not say was "but only if you are a baptised Catholic in good standing with the church....etc". It was a gift offered to all, but sadly the Catholic Church has put conditions on it where Jesus did not.. Remember too that when Jesus instituted The Eucharist at the Last Supper, there was no such organisation as the Catholic Church or any other formalised Christian Church for that matter, so this is why I tend to take Christ at his word and take holy communion in memory of Him. BTW I am a practising Catholic, do you think I will be burned at the stake for heresy???I won't comment on laws and rules of churches. All I can say is right at the high point of the Mass, the priest, quoting Jesus' words at the Last Supper, holds up the host and says, "Take this, ALL OF YOU, and eat it. This is my body..."
And a moment later, he holds up the chalice, and says, "take this ALL OF YOU, and drink from it..."
Not sure what part of that people don't understand.
These words were spoken by Jesus at the Last Supper. His speech finished with the words "Do this in memory of me" what he did not say was "but only if you are a baptised Catholic in good standing with the church....etc". It was a gift offered to all, but sadly the Catholic Church has put conditions on it where Jesus did not.. Remember too that when Jesus instituted The Eucharist at the Last Supper, there was no such organisation as the Catholic Church or any other formalised Christian Church for that matter, so this is why I tend to take Christ at his word and take holy communion in memory of Him. BTW I am a practising Catholic, do you think I will be burned at the stake for heresy???
Could I ask those who are not Catholic, but receive Our Lord at Mass, do you also genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament ? Do you seek out Our Lord in the tabernacle of an otherwise empty church and find solace in His presence ?
YesThe Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ are present fully under each species. Receiving both does not add anything.
Could I ask those who are not Catholic, but receive Our Lord at Mass, do you also genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament ? Do you seek out Our Lord in the tabernacle of an otherwise empty church and find solace in His presence ? Do you assist during Hours of Adoration?
The Real Presence is at the centre of Catholicism. Receiving communion is only a part of the belief
... Could I ask those who are not Catholic, but receive Our Lord at Mass, do you also genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament ? Do you seek out Our Lord in the tabernacle of an otherwise empty church and find solace in His presence ? Do you assist during Hours of Adoration?....
So I wikied tincture to ensure I knew what was being referred to, and it is what I thought... Although... Wiki says the communiant is not supposed to do the dipping herself. That is the only way I have ever seen it done. As for the host, the Dominican church I visit uses pita bread. How Montreal of us, a true "mosaic" city. The church I went to as a child has hosts that were very thick, and darker. Almost like comparing white sandwhich bread to wholesome all wheat bread. Have never seen that elsewhere.When attending Mass in the Vatican during the opening week of the jubilee I was surprised to see communion being distributed using the practice of tincture. I've never seen this before. On practical terms, it did prevent people receiving communion in the hand, ensuring that the host was consumed at the place of reception.
Question: getting communion without having had a "first communion", like the beautiful ones we still see on the Camino. Is that ok? Is that new? I thought the first communion with all the teachings that come as part of the preparation was the only way to go. Thank you.
I'm asking before in the first few posts on this thread it seamed as if the "condition" for being able to receive communion in a Catholic church was only baptism, giving the impression any baptised Christian was good to go, not making any mention of first communion.I am not aware anything has changed, 'first communion' for the young ones, with the preparation and being taught by a Cathechist is still required.
Adults converting to Catholicism also have to follow a course of 'teachings' but they don't have the special day with the nice clothesAt least my husband didn't
Catechesis is required for reception of "First Communion."I'm asking before in the first few posts on this thread it seamed as if the "condition" for being able to receive communion in a Catholic church was only baptism, giving the impression any baptised Christian was good to go, not making any mention of first communion.
Most times, adults enter the Catholic Church at the Easter Vigil, so your husband is something of an exception in that regard.I am not aware anything has changed, 'first communion' for the young ones, with the preparation and being taught by a Cathechist is still required.
Adults converting to Catholicism also have to follow a course of 'teachings' but they don't have the special day with the nice clothesAt least my husband didn't
Belief in the Real Presence is not limited to Catholicism. And, it is only part of the belief of the Church that must be present to be considered in full communion.The Real Presence is at the centre of Catholicism. Receiving communion is only a part of the belief
Most times, adults enter the Catholic Church at the Easter Vigil, so your husband is something of an exception in that regard.
Then you believe in the Real Presence.
I wasn't really expecting an answer to my question to be honest. If I had I'd have framed it less bluntly.
Apologies if it came across as a challenge.
The're the questions I ask myself when, oft in the stilly night, doubt gathers round me. I know that if I wish
to remain in the Catholic Church I have to believe it 100%. In my heart, it's easy. In my intellect ? I guess
that's where faith plays it's part. "The adherence of the intellect to the Truth revealed by God"
I wasn't really expecting an answer to my question to be honest. If I had I'd have framed it less bluntly.
Apologies if it came across as a challenge.
They're the questions I ask myself when, oft in the stilly night, doubt gathers round me. I know that if I wish
to remain in the Catholic Church I have to believe it 100%. In my heart, it's easy. In my intellect ? I guess
that's where faith plays it's part. "The adherence of the intellect to the Truth revealed by God"
Yet another Yes, Introibo my friend and brother.The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ are present fully under each species. Receiving both does not add anything.
Could I ask those who are not Catholic, but receive Our Lord at Mass, do you also genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament ? Do you seek out Our Lord in the tabernacle of an otherwise empty church and find solace in His presence ? Do you assist during Hours of Adoration?
The Real Presence is at the centre of Catholicism. Receiving communion is only a part of the belief
They're the questions I ask myself when, oft in the stilly night, doubt gathers round me. I know that if I wish
to remain in the Catholic Church I have to believe it 100%. In my heart, it's easy. In my intellect ? I guess
that's where faith plays it's part. "The adherence of the intellect to the Truth revealed by God
Thanks. It was an honest question and I thought it deserved an honest answer.
In our (the Episcopal Church of the US) Book of Common Prayer, in the Baptismal Covenant where the celebrant asks a series of questions such as "Will you continue in the apostles' teaching . . . etc.", "Will you persevere in resisting evil . . . etc.", "Will you seek and serve Christ . . . . etc.", the response is "I will, with God's help."
All we can ask for when it comes to articles of faith is that we try, and trust in God's help.
Peace be with you.
I loved your answer, @DurhamParish .
<snip>
--I found, today, in a local thrift shop some items that spoke very strongly to me--a set of dishes identical to those that had been my grandparents', and my grandparents and parents and I were exceptionally close. God wraps me in gifts this time of the year, and while dishes may sound mundane, to be nourished and fed--both body and soul--is a blessed event.
The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ are present fully under each species. Receiving both does not add anything.
Could I ask those who are not Catholic, but receive Our Lord at Mass, do you also genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament ? Do you seek out Our Lord in the tabernacle of an otherwise empty church and find solace in His presence ? Do you assist during Hours of Adoration?
Adults entering the Catholic Church at the Easter vigil is a very appropriate moment, but not the only moment. I received the Holy Sacrament for the first time at our wedding Mass.Most times, adults enter the Catholic Church at the Easter Vigil, so your husband is something of an exception in that regard.
I loved your answer, @DurhamParish .
--I found, today, in a local thrift shop some items that spoke very strongly to me--a set of dishes identical to those that had been my grandparents', and my grandparents and parents and I were exceptionally close. God wraps me in gifts this time of the year, and while dishes may sound mundane, to be nourished and fed--both body and soul--is a blessed event.
Today, instead of feeling bad and defensive--as I had a rough moment earlier--I turned on some Loreena McKennit music and stopped my thoughts.
Could I ask those who are not Catholic, but receive Our Lord at Mass, do you also genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament ? Do you seek out Our Lord in the tabernacle of an otherwise empty church and find solace in His presence ?
The Real Presence is at the centre of Catholicism. Receiving communion is only a part of the belief
Beautiful...I bow to you
Et cum spirtitu tuo
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