D
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
I have been to Spain 14 times and although have seen police with machine guys at Atocha station in Madrid I have always felt safe. I feel safe in Madrid and in my 10 Caminos never have had problems. Even though I walk alone. The only place I will not walk alone is on a lonely stretch not far from Santiago. I will not name the place but it's lonely and dark and I usually ask people if I can tag on until it gets lighter.I crossed the London Bridge on June 3, 2017 ten minutes before the terrorists began ramming pedestrians. As awful as the attack was, I and over 8 million others in London were not personally harmed. Crime on the Camino is like that; it is too random to worry about. There probably is an upswing, but I would bet that more crime occurs daily in the Madrid train station than annually on the Camino. Remember, Willy Sutton robbed banks because that is where the money was. Pilgrims can be targets, so do the things that minimize YOU as a target: put money and cards in several places, be aware, trust but verify, walk near others, if your instinct says "beware", be wary.
I crossed the London Bridge on June 3, 2017 ten minutes before the terrorists began ramming pedestrians. As awful as the attack was, I and over 8 million others in London were not personally harmed. Crime on the Camino is like that; it is too random to worry about. There probably is an upswing, but I would bet that more crime occurs daily in the Madrid train station than annually on the Camino. Remember, Willy Sutton robbed banks because that is where the money was. Pilgrims can be targets, so do the things that minimize YOU as a target: put money and cards in several places, be aware, trust but verify, walk near others, if your instinct says "beware", be wary.
It was the number one pickpocket site in Spain a while back!!!"Madrid train station," is vague and hasty as a reference point.
Like you suggest, social media has changed things a great deal, information flows like a river. You're right about the sexual assault incidents - I don't understand why this isn't at least recorded and collated for womens safety. Social media would be essential for working with such a data base, quick and effective.It's of course difficult to tell but I think it's social media and in particular the near ubiquitous access to the internet thanks to mobile devices and how quickly messages spread from one online place to the next. For example, I don't think I've ever read as many posts about people having lost an item on a Camino as this year.
Or another aspect, more directly related to your post: nearly every newspaper has now an online presence, so again information about crime in Camino related areas is picked up and spreads very quickly. Also, the number of pilgrims/tourists has increased considerably during the last years so it's not surprising that there are more cases reported, in particular in cities such as Madrid, Barcelona, Leon etc. A major multiplier of such info are Facebook groups of which there are now quite a few with a Camino focus.
There was some forum talk about building a database for Camino related sexual assault incidents and similar incidents some time ago. Nothing came of it. I guess it would be next to impossible to develop a method for collecting such data.
I prefer scan my documents, make a .pdf and send it to my email account, so I can have them available anywhere and ready to be printed. Paper copies have a weight and can be lost or damaged, smartphones are a target for thieves and can break and be lost. Online mail account are safer. I don't use Google services like Gmail or Drive because for security reason they might require extra steps to access them from a different than usual device.
All very good ideas. Of course, if like many of us, we are carrying our email accounts on our phones (I do because work is always attached to me one way or another), ultimately anything could be accessed. I have pretty strong encryption, including dual authentication requirements, to block access to my hardware as the primary method for protecting my documents.
Anything can be stolen. When my father died while on holiday, his passport and other documents went missing when his body was found in his hotel. It took us 12 weeks to repatriate his remains because of the theft of his passport, driver's license and social insurance number.
Anyway, point being -- hard copies, PDF's, which email account.... it's all vulnerable somehow. But if dad had had a cell phone (it was 1999 so he didn't) or a computer with copies of his documents, getting his body home would have been easier. Instead we had to involve diplomats and the RCMP.
Scan or photo makes no difference in digital terms. Either can be saved as a PDF -- for those who may be less technically aware about what can and can't be rendered as a printable document format.
sometimes, its really upsetting despite of our real good intention may have bad effect.I have recently begun to wonder if doing so is creating an exaggerated perception of the risks involved in walking the Caminos.
You say that it is the unknown that scares people. To me it's just the other way around knowing to much of what and how negative things might happen will scare people off. Like I said in earlier posts, the camino is a relatively safe place, compared for instance with big cities. Just take the normal preventive actions. The camino is in several ways on trust, I would hate it if that would be affected.I'm new on this forum, but I am not new to maintaining a situational awareness. I read these posts with interest. I really wish that everyone who reports "I was pick pocketed," or "I was ripped off," would provide some detail as to what exactly happened and what could have prevented it. I read a recent post where someone reported being pickpocketed by "professionals" who got to an "inside pocket." It would be nice to know more. Nathanael in this thread wrote about a dark and scary stretch of the Frances near Santiago, but will not provide details.
It's the unknown that scares people. If people could tell us more, then we could collectively learn from others' misfortune. Some unfortunate events can be prevented. Maybe misfortune can be turned into collective wisdom. But by not telling, all we are left with is a statistic and the unknown. This could create a feeling of dread for some people.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/09/24/inenglish/1443098944_960415.htmlIs it me or what? Are incdents of crime against pilgrims increasing? I'm not as well read or knowledgable as most on this forum, or as our moderators, but I just wonder if I'm reading and hearing more about this? Perhaps social media and our forum, technology, is enabling us to report, quickly and in detail, every incident more efficiently (and rightly so). I suspect 'minor' incidents go unreported.
I was born in London and lived there from time to time, and my father was in the Met. I don't regard going on Camino as dangerous or threatening - there are far more dangerous places to visit or things to do, and I simply take the same precautions as I would on any sort of holiday or activity, or in any city. But I know that every incident is disturbing to those effected, no matter where they are or what they're doing, or the crime against them.
Pilgrims have been exposed to crime and danger since pilgrimages began. It's nothing new. But is anyone compiling modern statistics, any organisation or government body, perhaps? Are there crime 'hotspots' on Camino, or particular patterns and types of crime? Are there ever threats of serious injury or even death? Is anyone interested in such a database? During and since my recent Camino, a lot more incidents have been reported than I can ever remember before.
No matter what, I'll still go on Camino, as will the majority on this forum, I'm sure. But is better informed better prepared and aware? Would an accessible data base prepare and make aware, even help to deal with crime and protect pilgrims?
I've done six caminos over 18 years and I've never once witnessed a crime or observed a threatening situation.https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/09/24/inenglish/1443098944_960415.html
I'm not sure about doing the Camino. I would like to do it as a pilgrimage, i.e. not as a sports event, or holiday but alone, as a religious/spiritual meditation however, I could not focus if I was frightened and worried about crime and my personal safety. It would seem that there could be volunteers along the route who could provide some measure of safety but I'm not sure how that would work. I think I would avoid the albergues even though that is a part of the experience but I also have an aversion to bugs of any kind. I wouldn't want to do a holiday/group 'tour' that, it would seem would defeat the purpose. I know some people have a higher tolerance for risk, and I realize that when I was younger I myself did more adventurous solo travel, but maybe the Camino is not for everyone. I will continue to think about it and do more research.
I am fortunate to live in one of the safest places in the world. As I wrote in my post I have travelled many places and times on my own but I am interested not in a 'holiday', but a true spiritual pilgrimage. I have no need to do six Caminos; one will enough for me. Perhaps you need to read the newspaper link I provided. Until I started my recent research on the Camino I did not realize people did it over and over again. I wonder why you need to repeat the Camino six times?I've done six caminos over 18 years and I've never once witnessed a crime or observed a threatening situation.
Do you have similar fears going out and about where you live? That's a serious question, I'm not poking fun at you. Some people have a dread of leaving their homes - maybe you need to discuss your fears with somebody?
There are. They are spread out along the route - over the year over 300,000 volunteers will watch out for each other. During certain times of the year you would have to make an effort to avoid them. The measure of safety is very high, although like every populated part of the world, there are occasional crimes. I don't know where you live that would be a lot safer than the camino. Certainly not my area of Canada.there could be volunteers along the route who could provide some measure of safety but I'm not sure how that would work.
I repeat for the joy of it.Until I started my recent research on the Camino I did not realize people did it over and over again. I wonder why you need to repeat the Camino six times?
Because, one day, I hope to get it right.I am fortunate to live in one of the safest places in the world. As I wrote in my post I have travelled many places and times on my own but I am interested not in a 'holiday', but a true spiritual pilgrimage. I have no need to do six Caminos; one will enough for me. Perhaps you need to read the newspaper link I provided. Until I started my recent research on the Camino I did not realize people did it over and over again. I wonder why you need to repeat the Camino six times?
Because, one day, I hope to get it right.
Good to know. I live in a small town in Ontario - very safe.There are. They are spread out along the route - over the year over 300,000 volunteers will watch out for each other. During certain times of the year you would have to make an effort to avoid them. The measure of safety is very high, although like every populated part of the world, there are occasional crimes. I don't know where you live that would be a lot safer than the camino. Certainly not my area of Canada.
The U.S. has over 30,000 gun deaths a year, and they don't count the wounded. The Camino is probably the safest place I could think of being.
46% of all guns in the world are in the hands of Americans (just civilian guns). About 40,000 gun deaths in 2017; that's 6.8 deaths per 100,000 population (327.2million in 2018), Canada 2.1, and yes, a lot of those were suicides. Tragically, about 60%. Gun deaths in U.S. are rising, 2017 highest rate since 1996.
You see, I know statistically that the U.S. is dangerous but so far I'm not SURE about the Camino because data is lacking. People on this forum have criticized me (surprisingly) for attempting to determine HOW safe or dangerous the Camino is. I'm a person who does research - that is how I stay safe. I need facts. I'll find out.
Sorry, but I don't see where you asked a question, let alone where you were criticized for seeking information.People on this forum have criticized me (surprisingly) for attempting to determine HOW safe or dangerous the Camino is.
Maybe this article will help.I need facts.
The only time I was bitten was in a posh place after the Camino.I think I would avoid the albergues even though that is a part of the experience but I also have an aversion to bugs of any kind.
There are bugs in hotels, too - in many countries. Avoiding albergues because of bedbugs does not seem logical to me.
I would say that, when considering its population, the Camino is one of the safest places on Earth. I certainly believe that the proportion of crime to population is lower on the Camino than any place in my home country of Canada, which is by no means a dangerous country. As to why people repeat the experience, perhaps it is because they continue to find it enjoyable and rewarding. I know that is the case for me.I am fortunate to live in one of the safest places in the world. As I wrote in my post I have travelled many places and times on my own but I am interested not in a 'holiday', but a true spiritual pilgrimage. I have no need to do six Caminos; one will enough for me. Perhaps you need to read the newspaper link I provided. Until I started my recent research on the Camino I did not realize people did it over and over again. I wonder why you need to repeat the Camino six times?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?