Theft on the Camino... a growing Concern?

[Consigliere]

I've started this thread as I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items. I'd like to say that largely, in my experience, the Camino is safe, and free from incident.

But in saying this, I also had stuff stolen from my bag in 2018. I posted a thread and faced a load of resistance at the time, understandably, kinda. Yes, it mostly is rare, but for those that have been the victims of any sort of crime, it's also helpful to facilitate healthy discussion.

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not? And how can we as a community keep each other safe?

 

[TravellingMan22]

I've started this thread as I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items. I'd like to say that largely, in my experience, the Camino is safe, and free from incident.

But in saying this, I also had stuff stolen from my bag in 2018. I posted a thread and faced a load of resistance at the time, understandably, kinda. Yes, it mostly is rare, but for those that have been the victims of any sort of crime, it's also helpful to facilitate healthy discussion.

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not? And how can we as a community keep each other safe?

I doubt if anyone knows but is probably similar to rates of crime in other parts of rural Spain. I doubt if walkers are more or less likely to commit crime or more or less likely to be victims of crime, though I guess staying in dorms in albergues upgrades your risk. It’s very low though irrespective.

Why did you meet resistance?

 

[SabsP]

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not? And how can we as a community keep each other safe?

Keeping your valuables with you all the time.
Use common sense but do not get anxious or paranoid. I do not need " a community " for this.
Install Alertcops.

 

[peregrino_tom]

An un-useful thread with a click-bait title. IMO it will start with a lot of pointless speculative discussion and descend to arguments that previously members didn't even know they felt angry or affronted by. The result will be endless rounds of negative hot air. It won't do the forum any credit at all. I hope it disappears.

 

[Consigliere]

An un-useful thread with a click-bait title. IMO it will start with a lot of pointless speculative discussion and descend to arguments that previously members didn't even know they felt angry or affronted by. The result will be endless rounds of negative hot air. It won't do the forum any credit at all. I hope it disappears.

As I stated at the beginning this thread was meant to foster safe discussion about how to keep yourself, and other safe. And a place to express any fears or experiences.

I'm sorry if you feel this is a difficult discussion that might provoke negative responses.

 

[Consigliere]

I doubt if anyone knows but is probably similar to rates of crime in other parts of rural Spain. I doubt if walkers are more or less likely to commit crime or more or less likely to be victims of crime, though I guess staying in dorms in albergues upgrades your risk. It’s very low though irrespective.

Why did you meet resistance?

Not sure. I posted about my prescription meds going missing and got a heap of denials, or comments blaming me. Maybe I should've kept my bag on me at all times .

Maybe someone could explain why it's a difficult subject? I guess I'm so used to supporting victims of crimes. Maybe I'm biased and I'm missing something.

 

[Anniesantiago]

The best ways to keep your belongings safe, in my opinion are:

1. Don't take anything you can't afford to lose - leave expensive equipment at home
2. Carry all cash, cards, electronics, prescriptions on your person at all times, even when sleeping
3. Don't assume people walking/sleeping in albergues are "pilgrims to be trusted."

 

[Anniesantiago]

An un-useful thread with a click-bait title. IMO it will start with a lot of pointless speculative discussion and descend to arguments that previously members didn't even know they felt angry or affronted by. The result will be endless rounds of negative hot air. It won't do the forum any credit at all. I hope it disappears.

Any discussion that is helpful to new pilgrims is not pointless in my opinion.

 

[J Willhaus]

Pilgrimage for me implies trust--trust you will make it to your destination and trust that you will find kindness and help when needed. I think that is why crime and theft feels out of place on the Camino.

Sadly though, crime and theft are part of the journey and probably have been even since medieval times. We don't like to think about this.

Guide books don't generally have a paragraph talking about theft although there might be a paragraph about safety at roadway crossings. Perhaps that should be a part of learning about the Camino although even the movie "Thev Way" has a segment about Tom's bag being stolen (which has a fairytale happy ending. ) I do want pilgrims to have a realistic understanding of what they can do to protect their valuables and keep themselves safe.

Personal awareness is a key and taking valuables with you that you can't easily protect is a risk. As a hospitalera, I do what I can to protect pilgrims, but I am.only a volunteer and also a guest where I am volunteering with little input on measures of security.

I don't really want intrusive security camera or other measures. I usually have a physical key to the doors and keep the Guardia Civil phone number nearby.

 

[SEB2]

Pilgrimage for me implies trust--trust you will make it to your destination and trust that you will find kindness and help when needed. I think that is why crime and theft feels out of place on the Camino.

Sadly though, crime and theft are part of the journey and probably have been even since medieval times. We don't like to think about this.

Guide books don't generally have a paragraph talking about theft although there might be a paragraph about safety at roadway crossings. Perhaps that should be a part of learning about the Camino although even the movie "Thev Way" has a segment about Tom's bag being stolen (which has a fairytale happy ending. ) I do want pilgrims to have a realistic understanding of what they can do to protect their valuables and keep themselves safe.

Personal awareness is a key and taking valuables with you that you can't easily protect is a risk. As a hospitalera, I do what I can to protect pilgrims, but I am.only a volunteer and also a guest where I am volunteering with little input on measures of security.

I don't really want intrusive security camera or other measures. I usually have a physical key to the doors and keep the Guardia Civil phone number nearby.

John Brierley’s reuse in his guides of the phrase ‘Trust in God but tether your camel’ always struck a chord with me.

 

[Tincatinker]

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not?

Great question!

I just did a dirty audit searching for theft reports as to just discussions about theft

The results are:

2023 Reports 3, Discussions 10
2022 Reports 2, Discussions 7
2021 Reports 1, Discussions 3 (Covid year)
2020 Reports 0, Discussions 0 (Covid year)
2019 Reports 5, Discussions 17
2018 Reports 3, Discussions 8 (The reports all refer to a gang that were apprehended)

It should be noted that most, though not all, of the reports are 2nd hand reports or are highlighting newspaper reports.

Of course this forum reflects a very small percentage of those who actually walk the caminos. I've no doubt there are pilgrims who have never even heard of this forum who suffer theft and its indignities that we will never hear of here.

So, is there a crime wave on the camino? Probably not. Will opportunists still seek to take advantage of the unwary? Most definitely. Is there anything we can do about it? Yes, take elementary precautions. Keep your valuables on your person, always. Don't leave your gadgets on that handy bed-side shelf let alone on the table while you go for a wee-wee. Zip up your pockets on the Metro and if anyone gets to up close & personal jab your finger in their eye. If you find a spare hand in your pocket try and break their little finger.

Remember, fear is the mind killer. Positive action is protection.

 

[Felice]

The best ways to keep your belongings safe, in my opinion are:

1. Don't take anything you can't afford to lose - leave expensive equipment at home
2. Carry all cash, cards, electronics, prescriptions on your person at all times, even when sleeping
3. Don't assume people walking/sleeping in albergues are "pilgrims to be trusted."

To no 2, I would add 'especially when showering'.

Apart from that, it is really solid advice. I've stuck to these rules every time I have walked and not been a victim of theft.

Now if someone can help me to not leave things behind, I'd be ever so grateful. I've think I've left something behind on every single one of my caminos apart from the first. Suncream were the most dangerous as I got burnt the next day, shower gel was annoying, a bra on a washing line was embarrassing, a small knife in an albergue kitchen was a disappointment, whilst the plug adaptor was quickly replaced....

 

[Tincatinker]

John Brierley’s reuse in his guides of the phrase ‘Trust in God but tether your camel’ always struck a chord with me.

In my 2012 Brierley he also quotes from William Arthur Ward:

"But risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing.
The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing.
He may avoid suffering and sorrow,
But he cannot learn, feel, change, grow or live.
Chained by his servitude he is a slave who has forfeited all freedom.
Only a person who risks is free.
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
And the realist adjusts the sails."

 

[Maple Leaf Walker]

As I stated at the beginning this thread was meant to foster safe discussion about how to keep yourself, and other safe. And a place to express any fears or experiences.

I'm sorry if you feel this is a difficult discussion that might provoke negative responses.

This, my friends, is classic sealioning behaviour. Don’t take the bait.

Sealioning - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Consigliere]

Pilgrimage for me implies trust--trust you will make it to your destination and trust that you will find kindness and help when needed. I think that is why crime and theft feels out of place on the Camino.

Sadly though, crime and theft are part of the journey and probably have been even since medieval times. We don't like to think about this.

Guide books don't generally have a paragraph talking about theft although there might be a paragraph about safety at roadway crossings. Perhaps that should be a part of learning about the Camino although even the movie "Thev Way" has a segment about Tom's bag being stolen (which has a fairytale happy ending. ) I do want pilgrims to have a realistic understanding of what they can do to protect their valuables and keep themselves safe.

Personal awareness is a key and taking valuables with you that you can't easily protect is a risk. As a hospitalera, I do what I can to protect pilgrims, but I am.only a volunteer and also a guest where I am volunteering with little input on measures of security.

I don't really want intrusive security camera or other measures. I usually have a physical key to the doors and keep the Guardia Civil phone number nearby.

Thanks, I should've guessed. It bursts a bubble. I'm a little too grounded sometimes .

I know you guys do a stunningly good job, and in no way should you feel at all the need to be more careful. It's up to me to carry a money belt or bum bag should I want to stay safe.

Or to quote an angry drill instructor... "if it wasn't for people who don't lock their footlocker thieves wouldn't exist" .

 

[Consigliere]

This, my friends, is classic sealioning behaviour. Don’t take the bait.

Sealioning - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Dam... I had to look that up.

Here I thought that was simple projection, my bad, I'm going back to re read my dictionary for a more appropriate response

 

[Consigliere]

This, my friends, is classic sealioning behaviour. Don’t take the bait.

Sealioning - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You can't be serious... seal lion? Like it reminds me of my old Mondegreen.

Instead of "our lips are sealed", I heard, "Alex the seal".

Mondegreen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[trecile]

I've started this thread as I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items

I haven't noticed a marked increase in these reports over previous non-Covid years. As @Tincatinker's research shows.

I just did a dirty audit searching for theft reports as to just discussions about theft

The results are:

2023 Reports 3, Discussions 10
2022 Reports 2, Discussions 7
2021 Reports 1, Discussions 3 (Covid year)
2020 Reports 0, Discussions 0 (Covid year)
2019 Reports 5, Discussions 17
2018 Reports 3, Discussions 8 (The reports all refer to a gang that were apprehended)

 

[C clearly]

I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items.

As pointed out by @Tincatinker in post #12, your impression seems to be wrong. I have not noticed "many more posts" about theft.

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not?

Undoubtedly, as the number of people walking the camino increases, the number of thefts will increase. But I have never seen any statistics on the matter, and I continue to take the same precautions I do when travelling anywhere.

And how can we as a community keep each other safe?

This thread has been moved into the "Safety and Security on the Camino" section of the forum. If you click on those words above the title at the top of this thread, you will find many discussions and suggestions about how to keep ourselves safe and also help our fellow pilgrims.

 

[bullingtonce]

I've started this thread as I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items. I'd like to say that largely, in my experience, the Camino is safe, and free from incident.

But in saying this, I also had stuff stolen from my bag in 2018. I posted a thread and faced a load of resistance at the time, understandably, kinda. Yes, it mostly is rare, but for those that have been the victims of any sort of crime, it's also helpful to facilitate healthy discussion.

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not? And how can we as a community keep each other safe?

Perhaps there are other, more important issues, than whether Camino crime has increaed by 2% or 5% or decreased by 'X%.' When all that is needed is to continue to exercise common sense, what purpose is being served? If someone has no clue about applied common sense, an extended 'safe Camino' discussion practically serves no purpose.
One might suspect that theft/crime is much higher on the highly popular tourist destinations in Europe than there is on Camino treks.

 

[J Willhaus]

There are some well known scam artists working on the Camino. I did not see them this year, but in the past between Sarria and Santiago there were women posing as deaf persons soliciting signatures and donations. We saw one snatch a 20 euro bill from the hand of a niave boy from the Phillipines in 2016 and stuff it in her underwear. The Guardia Civil nearby offered to have her transferred to their station and have her searched for the money by a female officer, but the priest leading the group knew that would take more than a half a day and elected to go on taking it as a lesson in life.

There are often notices about these kinds of incidents posted in communities (often in Spanish). The GC have as one if their active missions to patrol the Camino and we've had them come into albergues to look at the Pilgrim roster where we were staying. We saw them this year on motorcycles, horses, car, van, and on foot between Sarria and Santiago. This indicates at least the intention to prevent crimes against pilgrims, but this won't prevent theft of unattended belongings in albergues.

 

[Tony Lenton]

Thanks, I should've guessed. It bursts a bubble. I'm a little too grounded sometimes .

I know you guys do a stunningly good job, and in no way should you feel at all the need to be more careful. It's up to me to carry a money belt or bum bag should I want to stay safe.

Or to quote an angry drill instructor... "if it wasn't for people who don't lock their footlocker thieves wouldn't exist" .

Or, to quote a Judge from one of London’s Crown Courts, if it weren’t for the “fences” theft would cease to exist..

 

[Pafayac]

More pilgims means more risks.
I try wearing a Tshirt with the followîng warning:
« This pilgrim is emptied every evening. Therefore he does not have money. Try another one. »
I will be back in order to report the results…

 

[Tincatinker]

I've also always liked the concept that the Gods help those that help themselves:

A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

 

[henrythedog]

There is a tendency on here sometimes to refer to ‘on Camino’ like it’s on Mars.

How do I find a taxi / book a bed …

Is this a good pair of trousers to wear …

What’s the best hat to take …

… on Camino

What would you do at home?

Pretty much everything in Spain is the same as it is everywhere else, but in Spanish.

The potential for opportunistic theft is a reality of everyday life; but my perception of rural and small town Spain, formed over many years, is that it’s generally orderly and relatively low-risk.

 

[Gobsmacked by the World]

The best ways to keep your belongings safe, in my opinion are:

1. Don't take anything you can't afford to lose - leave expensive equipment at home
2. Carry all cash, cards, electronics, prescriptions on your person at all times, even when sleeping
3. Don't assume people walking/sleeping in albergues are "pilgrims to be trusted."

Well said. As to point one of yours….I am guilty of being a “gear nut”, I fully confess. I mean you’ve no idea how much time I spend reading backpack and shoe reviews.

That said, avoiding “Gucci gear” on the Camino, IMO, makes for a more relaxed Camino. Buying Amazon Essential clothes (or some other generic equivalent) means less stress leaving it outside on the laundry line while you walk around town, as opposed to an $Arcteryx$ piece of clothing. Similarly, Decathlon supplies excellent hiking supplies at an affordable price, unlike some outfitters (I am looking at you MEC in Canada). Aliexpress also offers a wide range of hiking gear, patterned on Sea to Summit, and others, but at a fraction of the price.

Obviously though, this doesn’t apply to passports or credit cards. Buy a stapler and staple those to yourself. Its’ a little uncomfortable, but only at first.

“He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.“ - Lao Tzu

 

[henrythedog]

Well said. As to point one of yours….I am guilty of being a “gear nut”, I fully confess. I mean you’ve no idea how much time I spend reading backpack and shoe reviews.

That said, avoiding “Gucci gear” on the Camino, IMO, makes for a more relaxed Camino. Buying Amazon Essential clothes (or some other generic equivalent) means less stress leaving it outside on the laundry line while you walk around town, as opposed to an $Arcteryx$ piece of clothing. Similarly, Decathlon supplies excellent hiking supplies at an affordable price, unlike some outfitters (I am looking at you MEC in Canada). Aliexpress also offers a wide range of hiking gear, patterned on Sea to Summit, and others, but at a fraction of the price.

Obviously though, this doesn’t apply to passports or credit cards. Buy a stapler and staple those to yourself. Its’ a little uncomfortable, but only at first.

“He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.“ - Lao Tzu

I’ve got a couple of Lacoste polo shirts; absolute bargain from a market in Barcelona at only €30 each.

I suspect they’re a ‘limited edition’ as my crocodile faces right, not left like the usual ones.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Or, to quote a Judge from one of London’s Crown Courts, if it weren’t for the “fences” theft would cease to exist..

Interested to know if the word ‘fences’ has any meaning for USA folks!

 

[TravellingMan22]

I’ve got a couple of Lacoste polo shirts; absolute bargain from a market in Barcelona at only €30 each.

I suspect they’re a ‘limited edition’ as my crocodile faces right, not left like the usual ones.

Ha ha . Proud owner of a fake Lacoste too from the South East Asia collection!

 

[Albertagirl]

Being on camino is often a very different daily life from what one experiences at home. The long distances travelled on airplanes and then on foot result in many pilgrims being exhausted at times. The facilities on offer in albergues sometimes do not provide any way for valuables to be secure when, for example, one is in the shower and clothing must be hung on a hook some distance from the shower stall. Privacy, with one's own room when sleeping and a way to lock the door, is beyond the budget of many pilgrims. Travel takes some pilgrims unawares into communities where they are targets of local thieves. The opposite of this is also true. I took the wrong Metro line in Madrid recently, while trying to follow a different route than the familiar one. A young woman with a tiny baby in a buggy took me with her a considerable distance, up and down the complex system, until she could give me the simplest instructions as to how to get to my destination. Yes, we must try to be alert and have our valuables hidden and securely attached when travelling. But I prefer not to blame myself when I find myself in a vulnerable situation and have experienced a loss. Every adventure involves some risk. I find that walking caminos has brought me many wonderful adventures and the privilege of encountering more kindness than criminality.

 

[HappyValerie]

I've also always liked the concept that the Gods help those that help themselves:

A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

I always enjoy this story.
Just wanted to say that I've heard the saying with an addition:
God helps those who help themselves, but God help those caught helping themselves. !

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I hear a lot of the ongoing daily Camino scuttlebutt. I have NOT heard of any more thefts than usual this year. And the bedbug population continues low! (It's one bright side to the big Covid shutdown -- deprived of dinner, their life cycle was broken in many lodging places. The little bugs are only just beginning to reappear, brought in from France of course!)

 

[dougfitz]

But in saying this, I also had stuff stolen from my bag in 2018. I posted a thread and faced a load of resistance at the time,

Lets add a fact-check here. In 2018, you posted a thread titled Spirituality, theft and staying aware on the Camino - from a current pilgrim that addressed two issues, one of which was an inference that you had medication stolen, although the language makes that unclear. There were about 15 responses to your post. Reading through them, I cannot detect where there was 'a load of resistance' to either of your propositions. Others might want to check that for themselves.

I am wondering why, now, your OP here shouldn't be considered trolling, given that a major plank of your opening argument would appear to be less than well founded.

ps while I tend to agree with @Anniesantiago on many things, I wouldn't agree with her assessment here:

Any discussion that is helpful to new pilgrims is not pointless in my opinion.

There is a point where propositions such as this are little more than fear-mongering, particularly where there is little in the way of fact produced to support the argument. That would not, IMO, be very helpful to new pilgrims.

 

[david g]

I think when we hear about theft on the Camino too much of it is second, thrid or fourth hand info. (The sister of my cousins ex brother in law said he met a guy who knew somebody that had stuff stolen) It’s how these wild rumors get started and then they snowball and pity the newcomers who are trying to separate fact from fiction. As said above take the same precautions you would at home. Valuables stay with you at all times and don’t bring things you can’t afford to lose.

 

[Walkerooni]

I want to be careful to avoid "victim blaming" here. And I certainly don't want to minimize the significant loss the OP has experienced. I would be devastated if I lost pictures of my Camino! But I hear a mismatch between the language about the knife and details of what went down. A laptop and phone left on top of the bed while sleeping sounds more like an open invitation than an armed robbery. Things happen, but where no precautions are taken it is unseemly to blame the albergue and hospitaleros.

 

[trecile]

@Walkerooni - it sounds like you are referring to this thread, which has now been closed.

 

[Pathfinder075]

There have been a couple of almost higher level incidents this year. The two pilgrims that got jumped and bloodied up on the VdlP the other week is probably the most serious. But this season seems to be worse than the other two years I walked (2016/17). I think the Denise incident was the most serious thing back then. Hopefully nothing like that ever happens again.

This year we've had several thefts, several sex crimes, several dog attack incidents, but so far that seems to be it. Is the reason there are more because more people are reporting them and posting them on here? I have no idea, but it for whatever reason, seems to be worse this year. Maybe the heat.

But that still only accounts for say 10 incidents. Which when considered in terms of the total number of pilgrims that it didn't happen to is kind of a negligible number in the grand scheme of things. So I probably wouldn't worry. Some of this years thefts and attempted thefts were avoidable. So use your head (and common sense). If what you are about to do seems like a dumb idea, it probably is.

 

[Olimpia]

Great question!

I just did a dirty audit searching for theft reports as to just discussions about theft

The results are:

2023 Reports 3, Discussions 10
2022 Reports 2, Discussions 7
2021 Reports 1, Discussions 3 (Covid year)
2020 Reports 0, Discussions 0 (Covid year)
2019 Reports 5, Discussions 17
2018 Reports 3, Discussions 8 (The reports all refer to a gang that were apprehended)

It should be noted that most, though not all, of the reports are 2nd hand reports or are highlighting newspaper reports.

Of course this forum reflects a very small percentage of those who actually walk the caminos. I've no doubt there are pilgrims who have never even heard of this forum who suffer theft and its indignities that we will never hear of here.

So, is there a crime wave on the camino? Probably not. Will opportunists still seek to take advantage of the unwary? Most definitely. Is there anything we can do about it? Yes, take elementary precautions. Keep your valuables on your person, always. Don't leave your gadgets on that handy bed-side shelf let alone on the table while you go for a wee-wee. Zip up your pockets on the Metro and if anyone gets to up close & personal jab your finger in their eye. If you find a spare hand in your pocket try and break their little finger.

Remember, fear is the mind killer. Positive action is protection.

Totally agree. The truth is that
public places like the Camino de Santiago attract people with different values, and thefts is always a possibility. . Practicing caution and being mindful of your belongings is indeed essential while traveling. While some unfortunate incidents may occur, it's important not to generalize and assume that the entire Camino is unsafe. Taking necessary precautions and being vigilant can significantly reduce the risk of becoming a victim.

 

[dick bird]

I've started this thread as I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items. I'd like to say that largely, in my experience, the Camino is safe, and free from incident.

But in saying this, I also had stuff stolen from my bag in 2018. I posted a thread and faced a load of resistance at the time, understandably, kinda. Yes, it mostly is rare, but for those that have been the victims of any sort of crime, it's also helpful to facilitate healthy discussion.

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not? And how can we as a community keep each other safe?

The Camino is not facing more incidence of crime. The Guardia Civil have become a lot more proactive about eliminating what little there is. Exercise normal common sense and offer to watch other pilgrim’s stuff when they go to the bathroom. And be careful when you cross the road.

 

[Consigliere]

Lets add a fact-check here. In 2018, you posted a thread titled Spirituality, theft and staying aware on the Camino - from a current pilgrim that addressed two issues, one of which was an inference that you had medication stolen, although the language makes that unclear. There were about 15 responses to your post. Reading through them, I cannot detect where there was 'a load of resistance' to either of your propositions. Others might want to check that for themselves.

I am wondering why, now, your OP here shouldn't be considered trolling, given that a major plank of your opening argument would appear to be less than well founded.

ps while I tend to agree with @Anniesantiago on many things, I wouldn't agree with her assessment here:

There is a point where propositions such as this are little more than fear-mongering, particularly where there is little in the way of fact produced to support the argument. That would not, IMO, be very helpful to new pilgrims.

Right,

I think you've missed a couple of things. In no way was my initial comment in any way trolling. Unless of course your definition differs from mine.

I opened the discussion with an open heart and a query to help people to 1) understand that theft on the Camino shouldn't be feared... as some people have shared. 2) Foster a safe space for anyone fearful of theft growing (my apologies, I simply noted more threads about safety, violence and thefts lately).... as statistics have shown it hasn't and 3) to foster a discussion within the community to see what we can do for each other... this hasn't panned out so well. Sorry, but in group work I try and balance an opening query from both perspectives, not share my opinion (as much as I can) so as to not put off anyone. Doesn't seem like I succeeded there, but funny that it's only a few

Yes, I felt resistance posting the thread in 2018. No, I didn't check the thread, and yes, I probably was feeling it, and own it as my emotional reaction, rather than it being totally driven from that thread. Sorry, my memory was of people reacting in weird ways when I mentioned it. Hence the queries about why it was such a tough subject. Resistance maybe was a bad word, but it's my feeling. Yes, that may differ from your assessment.

Trolling? Please can someone define this for me? I'm not looking to start arguments, not looking to gain something from someone - other than healthy discussion, but facilitate a discussion with a difficult subject.

Perhaps you can share why it is my posting was so "fear mongering"? Just because a subject elicits an emotional response, dosent mean is right to sweep it under the carpet. What exactly did I say that was so difficult?

My learning lesson... carry your valuables on your person and if in a group have someone designated to look after bags while others shower. Dam, that ain't such a hard thing as a community to do for each other.

 

[JabbaPapa]

So is the Camino facing more incidence of crime or not?

Honestly, there's a lot less theft now than there was, and the Police have become a lot more skilful at repressing it.

Fifteen to thirty years ago it was a very common occurrence -- now when it happens it's a lot more surprising, which is why I think it gets talked about ; as something surprising and not "normal".

 

[CWBuff]

@Consigliere
I read through the whole tread and to your last response above, in which you finally echoed what everyone been pretty much saying and what's been said many times before- namely "use common sense and keep your valuables on your self "
...and that's all there is to it!

"Fostering a safe place to discuss..."? Do,Pray tell me what does it mean? Safe from what?

"for anyone fearful of theft growing" - again as you saw there is no GROWING theft, only existing theft ( which was, is and will continue to exist on Camino and EVERYWHERE ELSE!); those who fear will continue to fear (because that's what they do) and it's posts like this that only fuel their fear...

... I will note with all Respect Due that perhaps your intentions were good and noble, but I have to agree with many who voiced their opinions that this was/is un-useful

P.S. To piggyback on @Tincatinker s joke here is another one (and I'll shorten it somewhat)
There is this very much "RIGHTCHEOUS", kind good natured man who is dirt poor.
One day looking down on him from Heaven, St.Peter asked The Lord:
- Lord, why do You let this man continue to be in this state? Can't You Help him somehow, perhaps let him win a lottery?
The Almighty Answered:
- Gladly, but he had to go out and buy the lottery ticket first

 

[Anniesantiago]

The Camino is not facing more incidence of crime. The Guardia Civil have become a lot more proactive about eliminating what little there is. Exercise normal common sense and offer to watch other pilgrim’s stuff when they go to the bathroom. And be careful when you cross the road.

The only caution I'd raise about watching "other pilgrim's stuff" is what WE learned about that on our first Camino back in 2006. We met 3 college students in SJPP. In Pamplona we ran into them again. Their Camino was over and they were on their way home because "a nice pilgrim" they had walked with for a stage or two had offered to watch their stuff while they showered in Pamplona. They returned to no cash, no credit cards, no cameras - SHE had cleaned them out and disappeared.

For that reason, I never ask anyone I don't know to watch my stuff. I don't take anything I can't afford to lose and take anything I'm concerned about WITH me into the shower when in an albergue.

 

[peregrina2000]

I have been watching this thread with concern, because I think the tendency is for what was an honestly expressed question to turn into a thread that creates panic or anxiety where none existed before. I’ve been walking caminos for 20 years and though I have walked the more popular routes, my clear preference now is for those where solitude is the coin of the realm. I am not afraid, nervous or anxious, yet I try to be alert and cautious if something seems off.

I think there is no doubt that as the numbers of pilgrims continues to increase, petty theft increases as well. For the most part, those are crimes of opportunity, and they happen when pilgrims let down their guard and leave their belongings unattended. More serious incidents are very rare.

This year we've had several thefts, several sex crimes, several dog attack incidents,

First, let’s remove the dog attacks from our crime statistics. Second, making a statement that there have been “several sex crimes” is just not accurate. Under Spanish law, much of what others may describe as “sex crimes” are not covered by the criminal code. I am not dismissing the awfulness of seeing someone masturbating before your eyes, but I would reserve the term “sex crime” for physical assaults. There have not been several this year. That brings us back to “several thefts,” which is right where we started.

If you think you are going into a bubble where nothing bad happens, think again. The camino is the real world, special as it may be, and you need to pay attention. But it would be a real shame if that fact were to put you in a place of distrust, suspicion and heightened nervous tension, because it will rob you of the chance to experience the many special opportunities for growth and reflection in a stripped-to-the-basics world.

I’m not saying anything new here — this thread and many others have pointed out the extremely low incidence of crime on the camino, which is undoubtedly why those rare exceptions send shock waves.

In my mind there is a big difference between growth in theft on the camino and growth in concern about theft on the camino, and the latter can push you into a state of unrealistic nervousness and anxiety.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I have been watching this thread with concern, because I think the tendency is for what was an honestly expressed question to turn into a thread that creates panic or anxiety where none existed before. I’ve been walking caminos for 20 years and though I have walked the more popular routes, my clear preference now is for those where solitude is lethe coin of the realm. I am not afraid, nervous or anxious, yet I try to be alert and cautious if something seems off.

I think there is no doubt that as the numbers of pilgrims continues to increase, petty theft increases as well. For the most part, those are crimes of opportunity, and they happen when pilgrims let down their guard and leave their belongings unattended. More serious incidents are very rare.


First, let’s remove the dog attacks from our crime statistics. Second, making a statement that there have been “several sex crimes” is just not accurate. Under Spanish law, much of what others may describe as “sex crimes” are not covered by the criminal code. I am not dismissing the awfulness of seeing someone masturbating before your eyes, but I would reserve the term “sex crime” for physical assaults. There have not been several this year. That brings us back to “several thefts,” which is right where we started.

If you think you are going into a bubble where nothing bad happens, think again. The camino is the real world, special as it may be, and you need to pay attention. But it would be a real shame if that fact were to put you in a place of distrust, suspicion and heightened nervous tension, because it will rob you of the chance to experience the many special opportunities for growth and reflection in a stripped-to-the-basics world.

I’m not saying anything new here — this thread and many others have pointed out the extremely low incidence of crime on the camino, which is undoubtedly why those rare exceptions send shock waves.

In my mind there is a big difference between growth in theft on the camino and growth in concern about theft on the camino, and the latter can push you into a state of unrealistic nervousness and anxiety.

Lots of sense as always. But I think sex crimes goes far beyond physical assault whether is is flashing, stroking, voyeurism or revenge porn. I appreciate that legally it may not be. There are some bizarre laws in countries that just aren’t right! Upskirting didn’t used to be illegal in England until recently.

 

[peregrina2000]

But I think sex crimes goes far beyond physical assault whether is is flashing, stroking, voyeurism or revenge porn. I appreciate that legally it may not be.

I get that, and I totally agree. But I think that when we are tallying sex crimes on the Camino we should make clear what we are talking about. As I have frequently said, having been the victim of flashing at least 6-8 times on different caminos, I understand the disgust and revulsion that is often hard to shake. I also know that for some it causes serious emotional trauma. In a country where flashing is not a crime in the criminal code, it may occur more often than it does in countries where it is criminalized (though I have no idea whether that’s true). But my main point is that I think we should make clear that physical sexual assault is extremely rare on the camino. It can happen, but the odds of it happening on the camino are infinitesimally less than in my own country and in the countries of origin of most forum members.

 

[JSwalker134]

Great question!

I just did a dirty audit searching for theft reports as to just discussions about theft

The results are:

2023 Reports 3, Discussions 10
2022 Reports 2, Discussions 7
2021 Reports 1, Discussions 3 (Covid year)
2020 Reports 0, Discussions 0 (Covid year)
2019 Reports 5, Discussions 17
2018 Reports 3, Discussions 8 (The reports all refer to a gang that were apprehended)

It should be noted that most, though not all, of the reports are 2nd hand reports or are highlighting newspaper reports.

Of course this forum reflects a very small percentage of those who actually walk the caminos. I've no doubt there are pilgrims who have never even heard of this forum who suffer theft and its indignities that we will never hear of here.

So, is there a crime wave on the camino? Probably not. Will opportunists still seek to take advantage of the unwary? Most definitely. Is there anything we can do about it? Yes, take elementary precautions. Keep your valuables on your person, always. Don't leave your gadgets on that handy bed-side shelf let alone on the table while you go for a wee-wee. Zip up your pockets on the Metro and if anyone gets to up close & personal jab your finger in their eye. If you find a spare hand in your pocket try and break their little finger.

Remember, fear is the mind killer. Positive action is protection.

Just to note here, and you noted yourself, not everyone knows about this forum. And that's really being generous, I'd imagine probably 95% of people walking the camino don't know about this forum. I never knew about this place until I was informed about it.

Also regarding my incident in Fisterra, from what I am aware of, there was no report in any local media, even though the prospect of a knife wielding man on the loose should warrant a serious response, especially in small places where not much happens. (Saying this as someone who came from a small community where some public flowerpots that were tipped over attracted police and media attention)

I'd basically wager that authorities, police, municipalities/concellos don't want crime on the camino to be publicised because they don't want to harm the image of the Camino and the revenue it brings, also the transitory nature of the Camino means someone might be robbed but then the victim leaves the municipality a day or two later. so they aren't going to kick up a fuss to the same level as a local who has the right to vote in the community and will tell all their friends. In fact, in some places I really got a sense that local people saw pilgrims as walking ATMs and nothing more, not people going through complex and difficult phases of their life, the only real understanding and kindness I feel I had was from fellow peregrinos

 

[dick bird]

I've started this thread as I've noticed many more posts relating to theft of items

As tincatinker in post#11, has pointed out, this is not actually the case. In fact, the number of crimes reported on this forum seems to have remained stable in spite of the growth in numbers of both camino walkers and forum members. As for growing concern, this may be as much to do with the growth of threads such as this one.

One thing I have noticed since my first camino, a marked growth in interest in the camino by the Guardia Civil, who are responsible for crime in rural areas. They are more noticeable and more present. This makes me feel a lot safer.

 

[Sean Lad]

I think when we hear about theft on the Camino too much of it is second, thrid or fourth hand info. (The sister of my cousins ex brother in law said he met a guy who knew somebody that had stuff stolen) It’s how these wild rumors get started and then they snowball and pity the newcomers who are trying to separate fact from fiction. As said above take the same precautions you would at home. Valuables stay with you at all times and don’t bring things you can’t afford to lose.

Sean focal as gailge
Duirt bean lion gur dhuirt bean lei

 

[dick bird]

Sean focal as gailge
Duirt bean lion gur dhuirt bean lei

An old Irish word
A lion woman said that a woman told her

This, according to Google translate, is what that means in English.

 

[Sean Lad]

As a veteran of 34 caminos never heard of any thefts on camino
Losing a sock not a crime
Forgetting your wallet in pub not a crime
Losing your phone on path not a crime

 

[dick bird]

that local people saw pilgrims as walking ATMs and nothing more,

Do you know how much unpaid, unseen, unacknowledged work local people have to do to create and maintain a camino? The research, the lobbying local authorities, the negotiation with local landowners, the waymarking, cleaning and maintaining the albergues, are just part of the massive effort that goes into making a camino happen. Did you know that albergues cost more to run than is collected in payments (to say nothing of the capital costs)? In other words, every time you stay in a municipal albergue you are, in effect, receiving charity from local people. If any of those local people were to read your remarks, they would be deeply hurt.

 

[timr]

An old Irish word
A lion woman said that a woman told her

This, according to Google translate, is what that means in English.

There is a typo in the original message, it should be liom not lion.
So it means "A woman told me that a woman told her....."

 

[Pathfinder075]

I have been watching this thread with concern, because I think the tendency is for what was an honestly expressed question to turn into a thread that creates panic or anxiety where none existed before. I’ve been walking caminos for 20 years and though I have walked the more popular routes, my clear preference now is for those where solitude is the coin of the realm. I am not afraid, nervous or anxious, yet I try to be alert and cautious if something seems off.

I think there is no doubt that as the numbers of pilgrims continues to increase, petty theft increases as well. For the most part, those are crimes of opportunity, and they happen when pilgrims let down their guard and leave their belongings unattended. More serious incidents are very rare.


First, let’s remove the dog attacks from our crime statistics. Second, making a statement that there have been “several sex crimes” is just not accurate. Under Spanish law, much of what others may describe as “sex crimes” are not covered by the criminal code. I am not dismissing the awfulness of seeing someone masturbating before your eyes, but I would reserve the term “sex crime” for physical assaults. There have not been several this year. That brings us back to “several thefts,” which is right where we started.

If you think you are going into a bubble where nothing bad happens, think again. The camino is the real world, special as it may be, and you need to pay attention. But it would be a real shame if that fact were to put you in a place of distrust, suspicion and heightened nervous tension, because it will rob you of the chance to experience the many special opportunities for growth and reflection in a stripped-to-the-basics world.

I’m not saying anything new here — this thread and many others have pointed out the extremely low incidence of crime on the camino, which is undoubtedly why those rare exceptions send shock waves.

In my mind there is a big difference between growth in theft on the camino and growth in concern about theft on the camino, and the latter can push you into a state of unrealistic nervousness and anxiety.

Sorry I was hesitant to use the term sex crime, but over here if you expose yourself to someone or masturbate in front of them or record them naked in a shower, that's exactly what they class it as and all generally involve the person being added to the sex offenders register. The same generally applies for most major countries around the world.

Deviating from the topic, the fact it isn't part of the law in Spain might construe a larger problem (and you can delete this bit if you want). But I find it very telling when a country doesn't class exposing yourself to others or public masturbation as a sex crime. It is an act by definition that is. Anyway going off topic, so back on it.

If you have a better term for it, then that is fine. Anyway it's just stats.

In many ways I think this thread is a trainwreck thread. If people want to know the stats they can look them up in the relevant forum, at least for things our members reported and the same can be found on the FB and Reddit groups.

Crime happens even on camino. It's no different to walking in any country of the world. You have good people and bad people. Sometimes sh*t happens.

 

[Anhalter]

...deleted by myself... guess this is not the right place for this kind of discussion.

 

[Former member 104756]

Mods, Is there any reason to keep this thread going? Personally, I had no problem with the initial post and question posed by the OP. I was surprised that the thread seemed to go quickly downhill / sideways and at the nature of some of the comments directed at the OP. Personal opinion aside, there are already many responses recorded above on the question - to paraphrase 'Is theft on the Camino a growing concern?'. I wonder what is to be gained by keeping this thread going.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

So it means "A woman told me that a woman told her....."

This reminds me of the "telephone game" I used to play in the US. As kids we'd sit in a circle and the first person whispered something in the next person's ear, then that person repeated what they'd heard and whisper it to the next person. By the time it got back to the original person who started the game, everyone had a good laugh as it was completely different than the original.

We all pass on information we hear from time to time, but it often can get skewed as it goes along being passed from one person to another to another.

 

[SEB2]

Mods, Is there any reason to keep this thread going? Personally, I had no problem with the initial post and question posed by the OP. I was surprised that the thread seemed to go quickly downhill / sideways and at the nature of some of the comments directed at the OP. Personal opinion aside, there are already many views recorded above on the question - to paraphrase 'Is theft on the Camino a growing concern?'. I wonder what is to be gained by keeping this thread going.

I prefer it if the decision to close a thread is taken by the moderators. I learn a lot from what members post, even if only that I absolutely disagree with what they are saying. Echo chambers don’t challenge existing opinions.

 

[Former member 104756]

I prefer it if the decision to close a thread is taken by the moderators. I learn a lot from what members post, even if only that I absolutely disagree with what they are saying. Echo chambers don’t challenge existing opinions.

I am not looking to have my views echoed. But I agree, it is always - and rightly - the moderators' decision. And, at the same time, we are free to ask the question.

 

[peregrina2000]

I'd basically wager that authorities, police, municipalities/concellos don't want crime on the camino to be publicised because they don't want to harm the image of the Camino and the revenue it brings, also the transitory nature of the Camino means someone might be robbed but then the victim leaves the municipality a day or two later. so they aren't going to kick up a fuss to the same level as a local who has the right to vote in the community and will tell all their friends.

It’s time to close this thread, but I wanted to point out how very inaccurate these assertions are.

The Spanish and Portuguese police have undertaken huge security/safety campaigns on the caminos that receive the most traffic. They are in no way trying to sweep things under the rug. There are plenty of news reports about these campaigns. Many forum members have reported seeing patrols along the camino and they always report respectful and concerned interactions.

La Guardia Civil refuerza la seguridad integral en el Camino de Santiago

Se incrementarán durante el periodo estival los servicios de seguridad y atención ciudadana en todos los itinerarios

www.elbierzodigital.com

Más seguridad para los peregrinos del Camino de Santiago en Aragón

El Plan de Seguridad del Camino reforzará con más medios los puntos neurálgicos de mayor afluencia.

www.heraldo.es

Camino de Santiago y Camino Lebaniego

Camino de Santiago y Camino Lebaniego

www.guardiacivil.es