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Depends on your phone model.If two factor auth is such a big issue, might not be a dual-sim phone the right thing to get? You could still get your texts from work/bank/whatnot with likely no added cost (i think receiving texts is free even if you are on another continent, but better check before) and use the EU-Sim for local internet and calls.
Just a caution here that I found difficulty in getting SMS text service with my EU SIM. But the idea can still work - your home contact sends the code to you somehow, hopefully during waking hours at both ends!text it to you on your new EU number
It was what my bank (TD) told me to do, and it's only or the *first* authentication, after that they will have the new machine ID when I log in.Two factor authentication using SMS txts are relatively insecure because it is relatively easy for a thief to port the phone number of someone they target to a new phone.
Done correctly, using an authentication program on your smart phone, two factor authentication is very secure and I use it where ever it is offered, including on this Forum.
Google and Microsoft offer authenticator apps and there are probably others out there that are just as good.
What you propose seems very awkward. If that is how you want to do things then, of course, that is your prerogative. It may be simpler to ask your bank if they have the facility to use an authentication app.
Being an app means that it is independent of the SIM card that you currently have installed.
I use my authentication app for all of my banks and financial accounts that are online and they all support the app natively. I would be surprised if your bank doesn't support this method.
Still? In the EU, 2 step authentication has become mandatory for online purchases when both the vendor and the issuer of the credit card used for the purchase are both located in the EU.Unfortunately, if you're from the US, 2 factor is still common for banking apps if the transaction triggers a fraud verification.
CorrectIf the only banking transaction I plan to do is withdrawing from an ATM, the 2 step authentication would not be needed - right?
No, it shouldn't be. Make sure you inform your bank that you're travelling, though. I've had my card stopped before for unusual transactions.If the only banking transaction I plan to do is withdrawing from an ATM, the 2 step authentication would not be needed - right?
OH! Very interesting, I did not know that. Thank you!Still? In the EU, 2 step authentication has become mandatory for online purchases when both the vendor and the issuer of the credit card used for the purchase are both located in the EU.
As I said, this is here to stay. Some Spanish vendors, like Renfe or the Roncesvalles albergue, have configured their websites in such a way that this requirements must be met by every customer, no matter where their credit card has been issued. And if these customers still have a card where the feature is not enabled they cannot buy. And if they have mobile phones that doesn't allow them authentication they also cannot buy. So I agree with @Faye Walker, mobile phones are tools. Even for pilgrims.
Correct. It is about access to one's online banking, about making an online transfer from one's own bank account to another bank account, about paying bills online, and also, depending on the circumstances, about online purchases and online bookings with immediate payment. It is not about ATM withdrawals.If the only banking transaction I plan to do is withdrawing from an ATM, the 2 step authentication would not be needed - right?
Step 1: make contact with home.I don’t know if it’s practical to have someone at home send you the codes, usually you only have 10 minutes before they expire
Code. Not codes. Provided I understand correctly.I don’t know if it’s practical to have someone at home send you the codes, usually you only have 10 minutes before they expire
Could you share more information about this device, and where you bought it? And what does PSK stand for?I have no idea if this will be helpful or relevant: it does not suit me to have the bank send me a code to my phone. Two of us use the account. So, we have a PSK. It is a tiny gadget, and when I want to - or rather MUST - access the 2FA system, t
When it warms up where I am (in Feb!!) I will go to the Apple Genius Bar and have them walk me through *in person* how to manage the eSIM. I want to *see* how the text to my domestic number comes through, and how seamless the eSIM is before I go that route. I do like that it will keep my domestic SIM safely inside my phone, and I like the principle of it.I think all the best solutions already got mentioned. The easy is having an international plan. If not possible or too expensive, getting an eSim (that is if your phone supports it), and have two phone numbers on your phone.
Perhaps so, but that kind of pricing is *not* available for Canadians. It’s more like $100 every 3 days to use the various roaming options from our ISPs.I guess I'm not very frugal, but paying $100/month to be able to use your phone and phone number while out of the country just like you are at home seems well worth it to avoid all these complications and/or workarounds.
I'm not @kirkie and I did not know what PSK stands for but I knew what she meant. It's the 'gadget' that you can order from your bank, and if @kirkie's bank is like mine, you get it for free. It is only of use when you have an account with the bank in question. It generates unique codes for your online banking transactions. My two banks still offer such devices for their online banking customers but I now use dedicated apps instead. PSK stands for Physical Security Key. I used to take mine with me to Spain but now I can leave it at home and only take my iPhone.Could you share more information about this device, and where you bought it? And what does PSK stand for?
paying $100/month to be able to use your phone and phone number while out of the country just like you are at home seems well worth it to avoid all these complications and/or workarounds.
It is very true that our cell phone service is expensive. The precise surcharge for Rogers "roam like home" service is are C$14/day to be topped out at 15 days per month. So, roaming like home will cost up to about C$210 per month, which is currently about US$165. It is an expensive alternative to getting a local SIM card, but may be an acceptable convenience at $14/day for an emergency or for a few days.that kind of pricing is *not* available for Canadians
There are a wide variety of devices that offer 2FA including USB and Bluetooth "keys" where you don't have to fluff around with codes.Could you share more information about this device, and where you bought it? And what does PSK stand for?
Sorry, @trecile, I have only now seen your question. @Kather1na has given the answer.Could you share more information about this device, and where you bought it? And what does PSK stand for?
I considered this option and it's a good solution for the short-term traveller, as you say. If you're doing the full-scale Camino you're going to want another way, no pun intended. Bell Mobility has the same daily price but it's a 20 days/month cap. If you go to Spain for two months, that's $560 CAD. Wow, that's a lot of money just to get a few texts!It is very true that our cell phone service is expensive. The precise surcharge for Rogers "roam like home" service is are C$14/day to be topped out at 15 days per month. So, roaming like home will cost up to about C$210 per month, which is currently about US$165. It is an expensive alternative to getting a local SIM card, but may be an acceptable convenience at $14/day for an emergency or for a few days.
That’s nice. I don’t have the luxury of being so disconnected.What a pa-larva over phones. |I don't carry a phone or any of the paraphernalia that goes with it. Don't need it. I carry an international money card loaded with the currencies that I will be using which enables me to get money from ATMs everywhere. Simple, job done.
Every financial site I have asked has replied they will NOT send a text to a foreign number, so that strategy will likely not work. On your phone, install the app for each financial institution and set up for the thumbprint option for logging in. No further authentication. I use that method now while living in Italy this year.OK, so in a thread about cell-phones today, one pilgrim drew our attention to the arrival of 2-factor ID protocols. These have recently arrived at my workplace, and with my banking set-up (probably yours as well). The short story is that "2-factor" verification means that the system you are communicating with asks for verification that it's really you from a machine they've already approved by sending you a 6-digit number by text (usually, and for our purposes here, always) that you then type in to your entry credentials. This would be the "login" stage of your banking, for example.
Problem is that if you put in an EU SIM, you won't receive the text message because it will have gone to your home phone number.
The easiest solution *prior to departure* is to allow a family member or a friend to receive texts from your bank. (I use TD, and one sets this up in the "PROFILE" settings). Your approved person will receive the 6-digit code, text it to you on your new EU number and you'll be able to get into your banking.
From there, you can add your EU telephone number as an additional approved number to receive the 2-factor requests later on in your trip.
I am going to handle things this way rather than buying an EU SIM before leaving home -- simply because I know I can get a cheaper deal on the ground in Spain when I land.
It's a little aggravating (as is 2-factor IMHO in general), but it's the way a lot of tech operates now when it comes to log-ins... and nobody wants to be stuck unable to get their banking done! Most of us still have bills to pay while we are away...
@Old Kiwi, the thread is not about getting money from an ATM. Having no phone and carrying an international money card won’t do the job that this thread is about.What a pa-larva over phones. |I don't carry a phone or any of the paraphernalia that goes with it. Don't need it. I carry an international money card loaded with the currencies that I will be using which enables me to get money from ATMs everywhere. Simple, job done.
Nope, never heard of such a thing here in the US.I am starting to wonder ... do you not use these devices for 2 step authentication in online banking in the US, Canada and elsewhere?
They have been in use for years in Europe and are very common. No exchange of text messages is required, neither for your online banking operations nor for initial set-up. Below is a selection for various banks. Mine used to be on the must take list for my backpack (I now use a different authentication method).
@Old Kiwi, the thread is not about getting money from an ATM. Having no phone and carrying an international money card won’t do the job that this thread is about.
It’s about doing other stuff the way one wants to do other stuff, or needs to do other stuff, without “faffing around with any number of work arounds”. Love this expression.
Like you, I don’t have @Faye Walker‘s problem but for different reasons. I still try to understand it and try to help when I can.
Wow. No wonder that we sometimes talk at cross-purposes when we bank in different countries and assume that the system we are familiar with is the system that everyone is familiar with.Nope, never heard of such a thing here in the US.
I have bank accounts in four different countries all with different authentication methods. Only my British account sends SMS. My Irish account used to have one of those code devices, but now I can generate the codes through the app.Wow. No wonder that we sometimes talk at cross-purposes when we bank in different countries and assume that the system we are familiar with is the system that everyone is familiar with.
I learnt only now through this thread and through a bit of googling that there are banks who send transaction codes per sms/text. I think someone said earlier that this is not a particularly secure method. I never made use of this option. I am not even sure that my banks ever offered it. I've been online banking for longer than I can remember and I had this device for 2 factor authentication for more than 15 years I think. Ten years at least because I found an old instruction leaflet from 2010 on the net.
I have never seen those for banking in Canada, although I must admit I am a newcomer to online banking. My online banking app uses biometrics (fingerprint scan) for security.I am starting to wonder ... do you not use these devices for 2 step authentication in online banking in the US, Canada and elsewhere?
They have been in use for years in Europe and are very common. No exchange of text messages is required, neither for your online banking operations nor for initial set-up. Below is a selection for various banks. Mine used to be on the must take list for my backpack (I now use a different authentication method).
View attachment 117293
No. We might use such things at work — as I do. Though mine is simply a fob that receives the number in the screen; I then type the number in on whatever device to connect to my university platforms.I am starting to wonder ... do you not use these devices for 2 step authentication in online banking in the US, Canada and elsewhere?
They have been in use for years in Europe and are very common. No exchange of text messages is required, neither for your online banking operations nor for initial set-up. Below is a selection for various banks. Mine used to be on the must take list for my backpack (I now use a different authentication method).
View attachment 117293
Yes… maybe.… which is why I really like the idea of having the eSIM and dual numbers. But my bank *did* say that they would text to the foreign number because the device information is what they care about, not the telephone number per se.Every financial site I have asked has replied they will NOT send a text to a foreign number, so that strategy will likely not work. On your phone, install the app for each financial institution and set up for the thumbprint option for logging in. No further authentication. I use that method now while living in Italy this year.
I have the finger-print scan as well, and it’s what I usually use — BUT, I did a recent “ecosystem OS upgrade” across laptop, tablet and phone. When I logged in to set up this week’s bill-payments and transfers to my kiddo, TD needed me to use a 2FA because OS upgrades alter the system ID. When there is a SIM-card change or a log-in from a distant location, that will also trigger a 2FA request, over-riding the usual finger-print. Alas.I have never seen those for banking in Canada, although I must admit I am a newcomer to online banking. My online banking app uses biometrics (fingerprint scan) for security.
I don't recall that you mentioned your iPhone model. My iPhone 8 cannot make use of eSim features. A newer model with up to date iOS that does not even need any physical SIM cards at all sounds very attractive, especially when a domestic carrier and a different foreign carrier are allowed (may depend on the primary provider if I understand correctly). Definitely the way to go, imo. Anyone from Canada who has been to Spain and has done this already?I’m glad I found out in time to get my butt into the Apple store, get a hands-on tutorial with the eSIM, etc etc.
I feel like I might end up being the "test of concept case"!I don't recall that you mentioned your iPhone model. My iPhone 8 cannot make use of eSim features. A newer model with up to date iOS that does not even need any physical SIM cards at all sounds very attractive, especially when a domestic carrier and a different foreign carrier are allowed (may depend on the primary provider if I understand correctly). Definitely the way to go, imo. Anyone from Canada who has been to Spain and has done this already?
Good idea! - our forum tester.I feel like I might end up being the "test of concept case"!
I have seen that some phones can have up to 10 eSIMs. However, as far as I have seen, phones (at least now) can have only 2 eSIMs active (or 1 physical SIM and 1 eSIM). The phones will allow the selection of which are the active ones. This is nice but it could be really confusing.I have an iPhone 12, so yes... it can take the eSIMS (up to 5, apparently!)...
Speaking for the US situation. I’m changing banks.
Some banks here offer both text and email two factor verification. But some only offer text verification for whatever foolish reason. I’m actually in the process of changing banks because my current bank does not offer email verification. I don’t want to be out of the country and unable to do what I need to do .
It seems a better idea, since sometimes I travel frequently, to solve this problem once and for all instead of worrying about all these workarounds with multiple SIM cards, or friends or relatives at home. It’s just sounds like a lot of work each time. And also with the email verification, if I’m sitting at a desktop somewhere, I don’t even need my phone.
umm, the reason I would be getting a verification was because I was trying to use my bank online, so this would only be necessary if I was using the Internet already…..?But then you are dependent on Wi-Fi. Text messages does not require a data connection.
umm, the reason I would be getting a verification was because I was trying to use my bank online, so this would only be necessary if I was using the Internet already…..?
Maybe there’s other purposes where you would get a text two factor verification, But it’s not relevant to me.
That’s a wonderful idea. I’m going look into the authentication apps. I have never heard of those before this thread, so thank you everyone. I don’t bank at TD, but there is one in my hometown. Probably the Canadian and US versions of the bank are similar in there logistics.UPDATE: For Canadians using TD
Others in Canada should check with their own institutions
There is an APP available called TD AUTHENTICATE. It works, in essence, the same way that the FOB digital keys/PSKs do.
Go to your App store, either Android or Apple and get TD AUTHENTICATE. It is separate from your TD banking app. It does not require that you be online to work (though I have trouble imagining such a scenario)
It only took me 2 separate calls with TD, and over 2 hours for *someone* to realise that TD offers this option, designed especially for when we are travelling and require 2FA verifications that it's really us, and not a thief with our phones.
Thank you @peregrina2000 It's a real shame when worthwhile and interesting threads 'drift towards judgment'. I've often found myself reading interesting threads then within a comment or two things have suddenly gone south and, sometimes, keep on going in that direction and getting personal along the way. Luckily, if things get out of hand, a moderator intervenes and wisely closes the thread. And I know many appreciate their efforts. But it's a shame it has to come to that.But what is not interesting is the drift towards judgment of those who, for whatever reason, bring phones. Can’t we agree that the judgment about carrying phones, GPS, and backpack transfer should be left out of our discussions?
Do you think that using a tablet with a phone app which forwards your texts and calls will suffice in this instance?Two factor authentication (2FA) is not new, back in the early 2000's long before smart phones, I managed a public access computer facility and along with other key staff I had a separate electronic device that generated authentication codes.
These days, services that require enhanced security such as financial services typically use 2FA.
There typically is a difference between accessing a service such as your bank account on your phone using a browser or via your bank's phone app.
When using a browser it is common to see the 2FA process in action. This is when either the bank's systems send you an SMS txt (or more securely you look up the authentication code on your phone) and you use that along with your password to log in.
When you use the bank's app on your phone this process happens behind the scenes and you don't see it but it is still happening. Obviously this is a simpler process for you the customer though.
When setting up the bank app for the first time the systems do require you to see and participate in the process so that the bank can be reasonably sure that you and your phone are connected (i.e. that it is your phone that the app is installed on) so that their app can connect you with your bank account.
While this first, one time, action can be considered 2FA it really isn't. It is just the bank app making certain that the mobile phone number that you have previously registered with your bank is the phone that has the app installed on it
Generally, if you installed the bank's app on your phone then you can, after the first time, use a different SIM card in your phone without affecting the app.
On the other hand if you want to sign into your bank account using a browser and you have set up 2FA to use SMS txt messages then changing your SIM card will cause you problems unless you have a way of receiving txt's to your original phone number.
Hi, please see this thread for a comprehensive and more generalized reply: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/verified-by-visa-and-sms-verification.72830/Do you think that using a tablet with a phone app which forwards your texts and calls will suffice in this instance?
Hi there is a more generalized thread here https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/verified-by-visa-and-sms-verification.72830/ where this comment could be debated dispassionately.Google voice. Another possible way to solve this problem.
This is basically an Internet phone system. You can use it on a computer, but now you can get apps for your phone. You can receive and make voice calls and send and receive texts.
You either use your own phone number, or Google assigned one. Then any calls or texts made to that number are forwarded to you. I’m going research this a little more but I think this might solve this problem. As well as enabling you to easily call back home as long as you have a Wi-Fi or data connection. Once I’m sure I’ll come back and post.
Google voice is aimed at the US market, but there seem to be alternatives in Canada and some European countries under slightly different names. Nevertheless, you have to have a Google account.
Thank you Stephan. I've been dreading posting about this since yesterday. I tend to get too involved with details and having to force my way to edit things to a simple version. Coming up with your explanation would have been a real chore for me.Google voice. Another possible way to solve this problem.
I found this bit of information on a site for long-term ex-pats. It seems to solve this problem if you’re able to set up a phone number with Google voice or whatever Google service does this in your home country. But there was some talk that some financial institutions don’t like virtual numbers, which is what Google voice is. So I’m not 100% sure.Thank you Stephan. I've been dreading posting about this since yesterday. I tend to get too involved with details and having to force my way to edit things to a simple version. Coming up with your explanation would have been a real chore for me.
In Settings you can say that you want messages to go to the email address of the Google account that is the owner of the Voice phone number.That said, I haven’t tried it personally to have texts sent to an overseas number. So I’m a little reluctant to posit it as a certain solution.
I was able to put my Google Voice number at my bank, and they did in fact send me a text. This wasn’t a two factor verification text, but it was an acknowledgment that I had changed the phone number.I give no guarantees that all this will work but it looks like it might. It won't for me because my provider is Google Fi and it doesn't reall forward calls and texts. When it says forward it really means simultaneous ring.
I hope this helps someone.
Should work since they are texting to a US number. I have set my Voice account to send a copy of a text to email. I sent a text to my Voice number from my mobile. The copy showed up quicky in the email. On my mobile I opened the Voice app to check for messages and it was there also. And this probably won't help you on your trip but I also got the text on the mobile that Voice calls get directed to (using the Messages app instead of the Voice app).I called my bank up and they said they think that should work, but they wouldn’t guarantee it.
Don:I do not know how or if T-Mobile operates in Canada but the new iPhone 13 with a T-Mobile service contract that I recently upgraded to has a data plan at no additional cost for service in Europe (voice is another story at $0.25 per minute.) I purchased my phone so it is unlocked and it has an eSim so the simcard slot is currently empty.
The two step authorization is a painfully necessary security process. I have had recent occasions where it stopped two bogus transactions.
BNP/Paribas in France has been using the two steps longer than the banks in north America. They message my US phone number with the authorization codes and it caught a bogus charge to my account for over 4000 euros last year.
Of course, if someone tries to call you from a Spanish number, it’s an international call for them. But that’s probably not really necessary, if you use something like WhatsApp as well.Don:
I have been using T-Mobile with the 55-Plus Simple Plan since I got my first iPhone in 2015. T-Mobile have always provided unlimited data and text service in about 140 countries. This includes all of Europe.
Tom
Well if by any chance you have Iphone 11 or newer you can activate Esim (if your provider offers this option ) . Then you can buy physical Spanish sim card and use it while in Spain . I don't see a reason why you can't recieve your text if you have roaming on your main card . Here is a list of smartphones that provide Esim option : https://www.airalo.com/blog/esim-phonesOK, so in a thread about cell-phones today, one pilgrim drew our attention to the arrival of 2-factor ID protocols. These have recently arrived at my workplace, and with my banking set-up (probably yours as well). The short story is that "2-factor" verification means that the system you are communicating with asks for verification that it's really you from a machine they've already approved by sending you a 6-digit number by text (usually, and for our purposes here, always) that you then type in to your entry credentials. This would be the "login" stage of your banking, for example.
Problem is that if you put in an EU SIM, you won't receive the text message because it will have gone to your home phone number.
The easiest solution *prior to departure* is to allow a family member or a friend to receive texts from your bank. (I use TD, and one sets this up in the "PROFILE" settings). Your approved person will receive the 6-digit code, text it to you on your new EU number and you'll be able to get into your banking.
From there, you can add your EU telephone number as an additional approved number to receive the 2-factor requests later on in your trip.
I am going to handle things this way rather than buying an EU SIM before leaving home -- simply because I know I can get a cheaper deal on the ground in Spain when I land.
It's a little aggravating (as is 2-factor IMHO in general), but it's the way a lot of tech operates now when it comes to log-ins... and nobody wants to be stuck unable to get their banking done! Most of us still have bills to pay while we are away...
Yes, I can probably get an eSIM, and run my local # to receive the code by text — but it will cost me $10-15 CAD *each time* that I have to do my banking (3 times over the course of the trip), depending on what kind of “deal” I can wrangle out of my ISP. I am, therefore, hopeful that the virtual PSK will work and I can avoid the sky-high roaming charges.Well if by any chance you have Iphone 11 or newer you can activate Esim (if your provider offers this option ) . Then you can buy physical Spanish sim card and use it while in Spain . I don't see a reason why you can't recieve your text if you have roaming on your main card . Here is a list of smartphones that provide Esim option : https://www.airalo.com/blog/esim-phones
PayPal has come to my rescue more than once.Here's another workaround: Paypal
I just bought a Renfe ticket with Paypal, after struggling and failing with my overseas credit card.
PayPal has come to my rescue more than once.
Makes sense. Also the exchange fee was cheaper with PayPal than Visa. $2.50 cheaper on a $180 transaction.We use PayPal for as many online transactions as possible (including regular bill payments). Among other benefits it avoids the credit card authentication code issue and if anything does happen to your credit card then you only have to change the number once for all those payments done via PayPal.
Hi @HappyValerie. Just a quick word of reassurance. There are no dual authentication issues for ATM cash withdrawals and swipe/tap transactions.I plan to use a Travel Dedit card in Euros for atm cash withdrawals for albergues & little food buys, & swipe/tap transactions where I can.
I am trying not to stress about the dual authentication issues that may apply when I need to use my home credit card.
Taa muchly, Kathar1na.Hi @HappyValerie. Just a quick word of reassurance. There are no dual authentication issues for ATM cash withdrawals and swipe/tap transactions.
There is only potential for an issue when you do pure online transactions. Mainly access to your bank account for consultation and operations; and buying or paying for something online when you are not at the seller's premises and don't use their payment terminal.
Buen Camino!
Until recently I was able to travel with two phones. Easy peasy. Now learning about eSims etc. - life is about learning - will see how I go.I was think about this issue just yesterday when I needed a 2-facot ID from my bank to pay for my Roncesvalles reservation. If I had done this on the road, I would not have gotten the text on an EU phone SIM.
Someone mentioned requesting the 2-factor ID by email, this is a bit more cumbersome, but a workable way around the problem. Someone else mentioned having an encrypted password manager to access you important accounts while on the road and changing the contact text number. I thought of this, but I need to check into if/how USA banks and other accounts handles EU phone/text numbers. I'm sure there's a way, I just need to look into it.
After some thought, I decided to bring a second phone and put the EU SIM card in the second phone and keep my regular phone with me as a back up. A little extra weight, but not much. Fortunately, I have a second phone that has the exact same features as my current phone but with less memory. Long story as to how I got it and not worth going into. So, my plan is to use my regular phone for the first few days (paying Verizon's EU roaming charges ~$10/day) until I can get an EU SIM card and sort out the contact information for my most used accounts.
Granted, not everyone has a nice back up phone, but it's something to consider for those who have one.
Until recently I was able to travel with two phones. Easy peasy. Now learning about eSims etc. - life is about learning - will see how I go.
Big, long established banks do seem to be slow on adopting new technology. Two factor via SMS is old technology and rather weak security.Until recently I was able to travel with two phones. Easy peasy. Now learning about eSims etc. - life is about learning - will see how I go.
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