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Hmmm, yes, I would check that out…. Iacobus would be the appropriate Latin, and not obscure…. They really do have trouble figuring out my full 5-barreled Celtic name so they do what they can… but “James” has no relationship that I know of to Ignatiu/Ignacio et…
Sorry @Jim B for hijacking your thread. Strange indeed seeing James and Ignatius are such different names. A tired clerk at the desk that day?My name is James, so I expected Iacobus or Iacobum on my Compostela - but the Pilgrim's Office translated my name to Ignatium. I only noticed when I got home. Occasionally, I think that next time I'm in Santiago I'll call in and see if I can get that changed, but maybe there's something that I'm not understanding? I figure that the one name that would be easily translatable would be James! So, before I do so, can anyone tell me if Ignatium is an obscure translation of James that I cannot fathom? Thanks!
Maybe looking up James on an alphabetical list, the clerk's eyes strayed to the line above, which might have been the last of the names beginning with 'I'.A tired clerk at the desk that day?
As others have said, it is a mistake. Ask them to have it corrected.My name is James, so I expected Iacobus or Iacobum on my Compostela - but the Pilgrim's Office translated my name to Ignatium.
One of my pet peeves, and this is despite the fact that I loved Latin at school and still love it today although I barely remember a word of what we were taught. Latin grammar is the reason why names ending in -a like Claudia or ending in -us like Iacobus appear as Claudiam and Iacobum on the Compostela.on my first Compostela the Oficina people did not even bother and my name was written "Sabine". Another occasion it was "Sabinam" whereas it it much simpler than that and just "Sabina". After all, my name can't be more Latin than it is...
It may be easier to do than you think: Latinisation of names - Wikipedia and List of Latinised names - Wikipedia.my passport name and my used name are totally untranslatable - one is Hawaiian, the other is Pali. Good luck with that.
From the article: when all else fails, make something up:It may be easier to do than you think: Latinisation of names - Wikipedia
• choosing a new name based on some attribute of the person
Sorry @Jim B for hijacking your thread. Strange indeed seeing James and Ignatius are such different names. A tired clerk at the desk that day?
Yes, that's certainly a possibility.Maybe looking up James on an alphabetical list, the clerk's eyes strayed to the line above, which might have been the last of the names beginning with 'I'.
I was fairly certain that it was, just checking that there wasn't a Latin loophole of which I was unaware. You make a good point that she may not have associated James with Santiago, I hadn't thought of that.As others have said, it is a mistake. Ask them to have it corrected.
It is not obvious to see that the English name James, the Spanish name Santiago and the Latin name Iacobus are all derived from the Hebrew name Jacob (יעקב) but that is what etymology tells us. Ignatius is totally unrelated to these names.
Non-native speakers of English often don't know that the saint that they know as Santiago, Saint Jacques, San Giacomo or Jakob/Jakobus is called Saint James in English. Which may help to explain this glaring error.
On the plus side, it gives me an excuse to wander back to Santiago to have it changed.Hmmm, yes, I would check that out…. Iacobus would be the appropriate Latin, and not obscure…. They really do have trouble figuring out my full 5-barreled Celtic name so they do what they can… but “James” has no relationship that I know of to Ignatiu/Ignacio et…
Bonum iter,On the plus side, it gives me an excuse to wander back to Santiago to have it changed.
My name is James. I have a number of compostelas and they all have Iacobus on them. I also walked the Camino Ignaciano and that certificate also put my name as Iacobus. Ditto for Salvador.My name is James, so I expected Iacobus or Iacobum on my Compostela - but the Pilgrim's Office translated my name to Ignatium. I only noticed when I got home. Occasionally, I think that next time I'm in Santiago I'll call in and see if I can get that changed, but maybe there's something that I'm not understanding? I figure that the one name that would be easily translatable would be James! So, before I do so, can anyone tell me if Ignatium is an obscure translation of James that I cannot fathom? Thanks!
Doing some touristy things around Faro after CP2019, our driver's name was Tiago - he was quite excited when we told him we had been to Santiago. San Tiago translating to Saint James, so Taigo was essentially James when translated into English.Well, Santiago/Saint James is Sant Iago.
San Diego also means St James.
That would be putting the name in the accusative case rather than nominative. I have no idea where mine is to look at the wording as to why we are the object of the sentence not the subject. Not that anyone really cares except Latin geeks…Latin grammar is the reason why names ending in -a like Claudia or ending in -us like Iacobus appear as Claudiam and Iacobum on the Compostela.
Good question/observation.That would be putting the name in the accusative case rather than nominative. I have no idea where mine is to look at the wording as to why we are the object of the sentence not the subject. Not that anyone really cares except Latin geeks…
What is the part with your name (you can put BLANK). If your name is just before this part, there is probably just before your name words confirming that BLANK “has devoutly visited the Sacred Temple for piety’s sake etc. That (I think, Latin has been a few decades ago except occasional prayers) would make the person confirming nominative and the person they confirm as doing something accusative (He confirms Mary walked). Maybe.Good question/observation.
I went to look at mine, and it’s quite clearly the case that so-and-so made the journey, and not that the journey conferred upon so-and-so. It’s a clear, active voice.
“Hoc sacratissimum Templum pietatis causa devote visitasse. In quorum fidem praesentes litteras, sigillo ejusdem Sanctae Ecclesiae munitas, ei confero.”
My Latin is useless, so I hardly qualify as a Latin geek. But I like it. And some of us are grammar pedants.Not that anyone really cares except Latin geeks.
Yes, and the church (subject) is acknowledging that so-and-so (object) walked (verb, obviously). So I think you're right, @Smallest_Sparrow: accusative fits.not that the journey conferred upon so-and-so.
What is the part with your name (you can put BLANK). If your name is just before this part, there is probably just before your name words confirming that BLANK “has devoutly visited the Sacred Temple for piety’s sake etc. That (I think, Latin has been a few decades ago except occasional prayers) would make the person confirming nominative and the person they confirm as doing something accusative (He confirms Mary walked). Maybe.
Also sorry for hikacking. Yes, he makes known So and So visited etc. And our grammar pendant @VNwalking comfirms!Capitulum hujus Almae Apostolicae et Metropolitanae Ecclesiae Compostellanae sigilli Altaris Beati Jacobi Apostoli custos, ut omnibus Fidelibus et Perigrinis ex toto terrarum Orbe, devotionis affectu vel voti cosa, ad limina Apostoli Nostri Hispaniarum Patroni ac Tutelaris SANCTI JACOBI convenientibus, authenticas visitationis litteras expediat, omni- bus et singulis praesentes inspecturis, notum facit: Dnum/Dnam…. So and so…. Hoc sacratissimum Templum pietatis causa devote visitasse. In quorum fidem praesentes litteras, sigillo ejusdem Sanctae Ecclesiae munitas, ei confero.
That’s because you didn’t have Mrs Workman for four yearsCapitulum hujus Almae Apostolicae et Metropolitanae Ecclesiae Compostellanae sigilli Altaris Beati Jacobi Apostoli custos, ut omnibus Fidelibus et Perigrinis ex toto terrarum Orbe, devotionis affectu vel voti cosa, ad limina Apostoli Nostri Hispaniarum Patroni ac Tutelaris SANCTI JACOBI convenientibus, authenticas visitationis litteras expediat, omni- bus et singulis praesentes inspecturis, notum facit: Dnum/Dnam…. So and so…. Hoc sacratissimum Templum pietatis causa devote visitasse. In quorum fidem praesentes litteras, sigillo ejusdem Sanctae Ecclesiae munitas, ei confero.
So, yes… in essence: the officials in charge recognize that Pilgrim X did this thing with the appropriate piety and so on.
In English that means that the entire subordinate clause “Pilgrim X….” Is the object of the verb “recognize”…. But I do not recall Latin grammar from 40 years ago well enough to know, have merely trusted, the case used in the document.
It's in the Accusative, so "Sabinam" would be the correct form on a Compostela.I remember that on my first Compostela the Oficina people did not even bother and my name was written" Sabine ". Another occasion it was " Sabinam " whereas it it much simpler than that and just " Sabina ".
After all, my name can't be more Latin than it is...
No, it's we recognise and grant to so-and-so ....Good question/observation.
I went to look at mine, and it’s quite clearly the case that so-and-so made the journey, and not that the journey conferred upon so-and-so. It’s a clear, active voice.
Bless her. And all like her.Mrs Workman
Yes, before the colon. what follows after colon, however, is a full, independent clause. The structure is, thus, very complex as a discursive document. That is: the document performs the act of creating a new status, rather like a legal pronouncement, or the conferring of degrees.No, it's we recognise and grant to so-and-so ....
It's in the Accusative, so "Sabinam" would be the correct form on a Compostela.
And for James, "Jacobum" or "Iacobum".
This quote refers to an older version of the Compostela. The current version goes like this:hoc sacratissimum Templum pietatis causa devote visitasse.
My Latin is useless, so I hardly qualify as a Latin geek. But I like it. And some of us are grammar pedants.
Yes, and the church (subject) is acknowledging that so-and-so (object) walked (verb, obviously). So I think you're right, @Smallest_Sparrow: accusative fits.
Sorry, Jim, we're hijacking your thread.
Thank you, looks like I was just unlucky!My name is James. I have a number of compostelas and they all have Iacobus on them. I also walked the Camino Ignaciano and that certificate also put my name as Iacobus. Ditto for Salvador.
Thanks, I can only aspire to becoming Iacobum or Iacobus when I can get back to Santiago with that dodgy Compostela!FYI, I just got done with our Camino and saw your post. I looked at mine and it states "lacobum" for James.
Nope.Yes, before the colon. what follows after colon, however, is a full, independent clause.
Yup.Nope.
No -- It's the direct object of the principle verb of the first sentence.Yup.
Parse it. The section prior to the colon cannot function alone; it is a phrase. The clause after the colon is perfectly, gramatically able to stand alone. Because this is a discursive document, the phrase with the principle verb has the power to effect a new status for the pilgrim — a kind of graduand. But the indepndent clause that has to stand on its own (recognized or not) is that fact of the pilgrim having completed the journey over distance X in a particular attitude.No -- It's the direct object of the principle verb of the first sentence.
It’s fine, but I know the difference between a syntactical set-up for a rhetorical purpose, and grammatical structure. I do not disagree that the part after the colon is the object of the verb in the phrase before the colon (I even said so upthread). However, in *no* language, not even in Latin, can you assert that, “I assert that” is an independent clause. The presence of the preposition causes the phrase to rely on whatever follows; moreover, it is almost always implied in any descriptive clause that stands on its own. For example, “The dogs in Spain are not dangerous.” In that clause, my assertion that this is so is implied. The clause itself, however, is independent.@Faye Walker, I know only a little about fine points of Latin grammar.
But I do know to disagree with @JabbaPapa and @Kathar1na in this realm is to butt heads with two people who really do know what they're talking about. Double down at your own risk.
Anyway we are well off track from the original discussion.
Thank you and yes, that's certainly been the general consensus.I have looked and can find nothing that links Ignatium/Ignatius with the name James in Latin.
Perhaps there is an explanation but I have been unable to find one. Perhaps the issuing authority could help.
This is incorrect.The clause itself, however, is independent.
The clause on the Compostela is complete, can stand on its own and does not rely on the introductory phrase. There is a syntactical and theoretical reliance on the verification from the implied authority (The one who makes the testimony). But that is a matter of rhetoric, not grammar.
Also, I would never just wander in to a conversation mid-stream and use a dismissive “nope” as was done to me. It was rude, aggressive, and unnecessary and earned itself a parsimoniously frank reply in what has been an otherwise fun conversation.
Yes.take note that "Dnum/Dnam" cannot be the "subject" of a new sentence, as there is no verb here in the indicative present
Thank you for that, I've resigned myself to having been mislabeled!Putting aside the scholarship - have come cross the following;
Yaakov Ben-Zebedi (also known as James the Greater) was one of Christ’s twelve Apostles. The original name became Iacobus in Latin, Jakob in German, Jacopo in Italian, Sant Iago in Spanish and Saint James in English.
Sadly, no Ignatium.
Perhaps Ignatius is thinking the same thing and he has your Compostella...and you his.Thank you for that, I've resigned myself to having been mislabeled!
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