Legends on the Camino

[MendiWalker]

It just came to my mind after commenting on another thread that the Camino is full of legends.

One of the many legends is that the Holy Grail in to be found in the church of O Cebreiro ( another says its to be found in the Cathedral of Valencia).

If you know any more legends regarding the Camino please feel free to add them.

Buen Camino!

 

[wayfarer]

My claim was disproved by irrefutable evidence on the other thread.

 

[MendiWalker]

http://pictures2.todocoleccion.net/tc/2009/06/06/13656807.jpg

The Holy Grail in O Cebreiro

The Holy Grail in Valencia

http://historiasdelahistoria.com/wo...tent/uploads/2012/04/santo-caliz-valencia.jpg

Buen Camino!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

It apparently spent some time up at San Juan de la Peña as well, on the Camino Aragonese. The countryside and legend inspired Wagner to write his opera "Parsifal..."
http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/11/san-juan-de-la-pena-vi.html

 

[thehappyhermit]

Also by legend in Glastonbury (UK) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail
and historically in Valencia Cathedral - http://www.travelinginspain.com/valencia/holy_grail.htm

Interesting
HH

 

[Tincatinker]

Glastonbury has its Tor, with an ancient christian chapel on top of an earlier pagan maze mound, it has its Holy Thorn, sprung from the staff that Joseph of Arimathea planted when his boat landed on the shores of Avalon, and it has its Chalice Well from which life giving waters flow to this day. But the Grail? If Joseph brought the Grail to Glastonbury he took it with him when he left. Legend, Blake and other speculators have the christ child in Albion before he entered his ministry, on voyage with Joseph the trader. As we have all learnt down the years, the Grail is where the believer perceives it to be.

 

[StuartM]

San Xulian has a legend about its eponymous saint. Killed his parents by accident and walked to Rome to ask forgiveness of the Pope as it was told to me.

Oviedo has the Sudarium, the face cloth of Christ after the crucifixion. Some convincing research that it matches the wounds on the Shroud.

If you extend it into France then Rocamadour has its own sword in the stone legend. There's a little village not far from there called Caniac. In the church crypt is the tomb of St Namphaise. According to legend, crawling under the tomb is good for fertility. We were told we'd never have children without IVF treatment, my wife and I crawled under the tomb, a year later she was pregnant naturally. Go figure

 

[MendiWalker]

San Xulian has a legend about its eponymous saint. Killed his parents by accident and walked to Rome to ask forgiveness of the Pope as it was told to me.

Oviedo has the Sudarium, the face cloth of Christ after the crucifixion. Some convincing research that it matches the wounds on the Shroud.

If you extend it into France then Rocamadour has its own sword in the stone legend. There's a little village not far from there called Caniac. In the church crypt is the tomb of St Namphaise. According to legend, crawling under the tomb is good for fertility. We were told we'd never have children without IVF treatment, my wife and I crawled under the tomb, a year later she was pregnant naturally. Go figure

Congrats on your child. By the way what´s its name?

Buen Camino!

 

[StuartM]

Congrats on your child. By the way what´s its name?

Buen Camino!

Not Namphaise

She's called Rowan after the trees that were in berry all around when she was born (they're called mountain ash in other parts of the world but Rowan is the Scottish name for them, means red).

 

[wayfarer]

Same in Ireland. Beautiful name.

 

[MendiWalker]

Not Namphaise

She's called Rowan after the trees that were in berry all around when she was born (they're called mountain ash in other parts of the world but Rowan is the Scottish name for them, means red).

I had hoped your child wasn´t. She might have never forgiven both of you………….. or perhaps she would have, if told about her story.

Buen Camino!

 

[Esclarmonde]

These are the different places where the Graal was, in Spain, after leaving Rome:

1.- Loreto: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/loreto.html
2.- Huesca: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/huesca.html
3.- Yebra de Basa: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/yebra-de-basa.html
4.- Siresa: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/siresa.html
5.- Sasabe: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/sasabe.html
6.- Bailo: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/bailo.html
7.- Jaca: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/jaca.html
8.- San Juan: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/11/san-juan-de-la-pena-vi.html

And afterwards, Valencia, where it is nowadays, in the Cathedral.

 

[MendiWalker]

These are the different places where the Graal was, in Spain, after leaving Rome:

1.- Loreto: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/loreto.html
2.- Huesca: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/huesca.html
3.- Yebra de Basa: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/yebra-de-basa.html
4.- Siresa: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/siresa.html
5.- Sasabe: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/sasabe.html
6.- Bailo: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/bailo.html
7.- Jaca: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/jaca.html
8.- San Juan: http://buscandomontsalvatge.blogspot.com.es/2011/11/san-juan-de-la-pena-vi.html

And afterwards, Valencia, where it is nowadays, in the Cathedral.

One is in Valencia and another is in O Cebreiro. Which one is the real one? Who knows?

Buen Camino!

 

[Esclarmonde]

One is in Valencia and another is in O Cebreiro. Which one is the real one? Who knows?

Buen Camino!

Valencia.

You can follow it from Rome to Valencia, through the Pirineos and Aragon. Saint Lawrence sent it to his parents, who lived in Loreto (near Huesca), in order to save it, and, in the XV century, it arrived to Valencia. Read the posts.

 

[MendiWalker]

Valencia.

You can follow it from Rome to Valencia, through the Pirineos and Aragon. Saint Lawrence sent it to his parents, who lived in Loreto (near Huesca), in order to save it, and, in the XV century, it arrived to Valencia. Read the posts.

I have. But it does´t explain why there is one in O Cebreiro.

Buen Camino!

 

[Esclarmonde]

I have. But it does´t explain why there is one in O Cebreiro.

Buen Camino!

It is not necessary to explain it. There is "one" in O Cebreiro, and there are others at other places. But there is only one about which you can explain how it arrived there: The Valencian. The others are just legends. About the Valencian, you can establish its route and provide documentation.

 

[MendiWalker]

It is not necessary to explain it. There is "one" in O Cebreiro, and there are others at other places. But there is only one about which you can explain how it arrived there: The Valencian. The others are just legends. About the Valencian, you can establish its route and provide documentation.

Precisely , the one in O Cebreiro is legend what this thread is about as is the legend of the rooster of Santo Domingo de la Calzada which crowed after being cooked. Another legend .

Buen Camino!

 

[vicrev]

Tell me more about the Super Chook,please Mendi..............Vicrev

 

[wayfarer]

What you also must remember is that the real Grail was probably made of either pottery or wood and not gold encrusted with precious stones. Where would the son of a carpenter or poor fishermen have got anything like that. The opulence came later. Sooooooooo back to the drawingboard.

 

[vicrev]

Didn't realise there were so many Holy Grails & it had travelled so far,bit like the Olympic torch.........Vicrev

 

[grayland]

Gently..Gently.
Some here appear serious in belief while others have tongue in cheek.
Be careful not to offend....please.

 

[MendiWalker]

Tell me more about the Super Chook,please Mendi..............Vicrev

My please http://www.riooja.org/milagro.html

Sorry but it´s in Spanish.

Buen Camino!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

the "holy grail" in O Cebreiro is not supposed to be the same cup and saucer Jesus used at the last supper (I think!). It is the cup and saucer used during a Eucharistic miracle that supposedly occurred there in Cebreiro. (14th century priest peevish about serving in such a backwater was celebrating communion to an empty house during a terrible snowstorm one morning when a villager showed up right at the consecration. The priest chided him for coming all that way for "just a piece of bread and wine..." And the bread and wine turned into actual meat and and blood in his hands! The miraculous cup and paten and the bodies of both priest and villager are part of the side-altar display to this day. )

If you really like these stories, get a copy of Gitlitz and Davidson´s classic "The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook." More fun stories than you can shake a walking-stick at.

 

[MendiWalker]

the "holy grail" in O Cebreiro is not supposed to be the same cup and saucer Jesus used at the last supper (I think!). It is the cup and saucer used during a Eucharistic miracle that supposedly occurred there in Cebreiro. (14th century priest peevish about serving in such a backwater was celebrating communion to an empty house during a terrible snowstorm one morning when a villager showed up right at the consecration. The priest chided him for coming all that way for "just a piece of bread and wine..." And the bread and wine turned into actual meat and and blood in his hands! The miraculous cup and paten and the bodies of both priest and villager are part of the side-altar display to this day. )

If you really like these stories, get a copy of Gitlitz and Davidson´s classic "The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook." More fun stories than you can shake a walking-stick at.

Thanks for the book recommendation. Some of the tales I already know just wanted to know if others had heard any and wanted to share.

Only reading bedbugs, pooh on the Camino, etc………. Thought a change could be good.

Buen Camino!

 

[Saint Mike II]

Have to get off this page, I love it bit I could be here all day reading and searching links, but have to get one with fixing the side gate!!

 

[MendiWalker]

@Saint Mike II can´t you delegate that choir?

Buen Camino!

 

[vicrev]

I get the feeling that Greyland was referring to me when he said gently,gently..........I apologise to any one offended by my remarks(even though they still don't seem offensive to me).......I just try & bring a bit of humour into sometimes deep subjects & lighten things a bit,after all life is too short not to have a laugh & joke........I will now bow out of this Forum & wish you all well....................keep smiling.....Vicrev

 

[Kathy F.]

What you also must remember is that the real Grail was probably made of either pottery or wood and not gold encrusted with precious stones. Where would the son of a carpenter or poor fishermen have got anything like that. The opulence came later. Sooooooooo back to the drawingboard.

Hmmmm. Sounds like someone's an Indiana Jones fan.

 

[wayfarer]

As Greyland said this could be a sensitive subject for some so I won't make light of it.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Take a deep breath, everyone. Even True Believers know a legend when they see one, and they are well aware that "the holy grail" can´t co-exist in 5 places at once... Some of them even have senses of humor!

 

[StuartM]

There are at least two claimants to the Grail in the UK. So that's 7 locations.

If you can find it there is a great BBC documentary with poet Simon Armitage on the quest for the Grail.

 

[thehappyhermit]

Also by legend in Glastonbury (UK) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail
and historically in Valencia Cathedral - http://www.travelinginspain.com/valencia/holy_grail.htm

Interesting
HH

The Wikepedia link also has the history of the Valencia Grail - about half way down the page under 'Later Legend'. This is the same as Rebekah says was at San Juan de la Peña,with other historical notes.
It is all very interesting, like the Sudarium which is kept in Oviedo, and has influenced new thinking re the dating of the Turin Shroud.
There is a website about the Sudarium, (which I think qualifies for this thread as it is on a Camino route).

 

[StuartM]

There is a website about the Sudarium, (which I think qualifies for this thread as it is on a Camino route).

There was a very good exhibition on the Sudarium and its relationship to the Turin Shroud in the square outside the cathedral in Oviedo when I finished the San Salvador route. It went through the history and research that had gone into the Shroud (albeit the positive stuff, there wasn't much negative research on display) and was done in a very powerful style. The forensic reconstructions based on both cloths was both equally impressive and sickening, it showed the reality of a crucifixion in very graphic terms rather than the fairly sanitised church versions. The reconstruction of the Shroud corpse in particular made my jaw drop at the utter violence of that form of execution which I'd never really grasped. The historical research was fascinating, how iconic imagery all suddenly changed to show a particular image of Jesus from the alleged discovery of the Shroud in Aleppo. One thing I never knew was that eastern icons often show Jesus with a club foot, something that they share with the Shroud. They also made a very good case for the Sudarium matching the wounds on the Shroud which, as the Sudarium has provenance to very early times, potentially re-dates the Shroud.

I believe the exhibition is touring Spain: http://sabanasantaexpo.com/

Well worth visiting if you happen across it. Expensive entry but very well done. Not for the squeamish and I certainly wouldn't take children (although quite a few people were).

 

[Saint Mike II]

@Saint Mike II can´t you delegate that choir?

Buen Camino!

Ha Ha! - no. but now its fixed so can get back to this (oh and learning Spanish!!).

 

[Esclarmonde]

All this blog is about the Holy Grail which is in the Valencian Cathedral: articles, photos, old letters about it...:

http://buscandomuntsalvach.blogspot.com.es/

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I saw the Leon holy grail last week. It is in a special display in a room of its own, upstairs at San Isidore monastery -- the same museum with the fabulous painted ceilings in the royal tombs.

The grail is really two Roman-era cups made of agate. One is nested in the other, both are bound together by medieval-era gold filigree and gems. Every part of the confection has a provenance, so the story is a colorful and fascinating one. I still do not understand how it's tied to Jesus Himself, but at least this item originated in the proper historical era.

It is worth seeing. Even worth going to see!

 

[Esclarmonde]

The story is similar to the Valencian one: Two old cups made of agate, one nested in the other, both bound together by medieval-era gold filigree and gems, every part of the confection of a different provenance...

The "discovery" of the Leonés one seems to me too much tied to the desire to make money. Since the very first day they began to count the number of new visitors. As an attempt to emulate the "Dan Brown phenomenon". I've read the book, and it has many weak points. I think we must wait and see the answer of historians, and not only the advertising campaign in magazines related to paranormal topics and things like that.

Anyway, León worths a visit!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Relics are an interesting business. Jesus' foreskin has an interesting history and a connection to Santiago and Le Puy:

According to author David Farley, "Depending on what you read, there were eight, twelve, fourteen, or even 18 different holy foreskins in various European towns during the Middle Ages." In addition to the Holy Foreskin of Rome (later Calcata), other claimants included the Cathedral of Le Puy-en-Velay, Santiago de Compostela, the city of Antwerp, Coulombs in the diocese of Chartres, as well as Chartres itself, and churches in Besançon, Metz, Hildesheim, Charroux, Conques, Langres, Fécamp, Stoke-on-Trent, Calcata, and two in Auvergne.

It would not be a surprise for more claimants to the holy grail to surface.

 

[angulero]

Como curiosidad, y aunque no pase el camino por allí, pero no está muy lejos de él, os pongo la piedra laberíntica de la iglesia prerrománica de Santianes (Pravia). Copio de wikipedia:

La piedra laberíntica del Rey Silo o acróstico de Silo es lápida fundacional de la iglesia de Santianes de Pravia.

La losa original era una piedra caliza con unas dimensiones de 52,96 cm de largo por 42,15 cm de ancho y un espesor de 12 cm en las que se hallan talladas, formado por 19 columnas y 15 filas, 285 letras talladas en capital romana formando la frase «SILO PRINCEPS FECIT» (lo hizo el príncipe Silo) partiendo de la S central (subrayada en el texto de más abajo). La combinación de las letras de columnas y filas dan un resultado total de 45.760 repeticiones de la frase.1 Sin embargo, fuentes solventes indican que solo se puede leer hasta 2024 veces las palabras «Silo princeps fecit»2


La piedra actual está situada sobre el dintel de la puerta de entrada de Santianes en el mismo lugar que la original; destruida por Fernando Salas en 1662 a raíz de un pleito con los feligreses de la parroquia por el derecho de enterramiento en el templo. De la losa original se conserva, en la localidad de Pravia (Asturias) (España) sólo un fragmento de 18,5 cm, x 16,5 cm y 12 cm de grosor.

Curiously, although not through the way there, but not far from it, I put the labyrinthine stone Romanesque church of Santianes (Pravia). I quote from wikipedia:

The stone labyrinth of King Silo or Silo acrostic is foundation stone of the church of Santianes de Pravia.The original was a limestone slab with dimensions of 52.96 cm long and 42.15 cm wide and 12 cm thick in which are carved, consisting of 19 columns and 15 rows, 285 letters carved into capital Roman forming the phrase 'SILO PRINCEPS FECIT "(so did the prince Silo) starting from the central S (underlined in the text below). The combination of the letters columns and rows give a total score of 45,760 repetitions of frase.1 However, reliable sources indicate that only can be read to 2024 times the words "Silo princeps fecit» 2

The current stone is placed on the lintel of the entrance door Santianes in the same place as the original; destroyed by Fernando Salas in 1662 following a dispute with the parishioners for the right of burial in the temple. From the original slab is preserved in the town of Pravia (Asturias) (Spain) only a fragment of 18.5 cm x 16.5 cm and 12 cm thick.


http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedra_laberíntica_del_rey_Silo

http://amimedamiedo.blogspot.com.es/2009/12/la-piedra-laberintica-del-rey-silo.html

 

[Texas Walker]

Hmmmm. Sounds like someone's an Indiana Jones fan.

Ah, yes, that movie. The character says he's oh so knowledgeable and yet he misses the significance of the time and place of the Last Supper. It's not a poor hovel, nor a cast-off dish. The place belongs to someone who has assets, including a fairly large upper room. (And servants, remember "follow the man carrying a water jar" bit.) And it's the single most important holyday in their whole religion, the feast of the Passover. To assume that the Grail must be some beaten down ugly thing is to misread the context entirely. It will be the nicest set of dinnerware the household has--just think of that relative that entertained a lot and had a special set of Christmastime dishes.
If you (generic) go to Israel and visit the Christian holy places with a guide, the Upper Room is on the list. After being the host's guest entertainment area as shown in the Gospels, and then a Christian church, it was later repurposed as a mosque. These days, being under the care of the antiquities officials of Israel, the architectural changes made to use the space as a mosque are still there, along with whatever else is left of earlier things. They feel a responsibility to show all of the spaces that room has been as historical truth.

 

[RobertS26]

There's another legend that we are ignoring. Legend has it that a pilgrim once did not stop in a John Brierley recommended village and walked onto the next village only to never be seen again. So, beware all of you who think that you can risk your life by not following the Saint Brierley.