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They have -- but as I tried to point out in an earlier post, the agreement is at the Union level only, whereas each individual Member State will take some time to both implement and adapt the general rules that have been agreed upon in principle, to their own national rules, laws, and requirements.Nobody else so far. I guess that's because the EU countries have not yet agreed among themselves which criteria and conditions will be used in future.
I'm all for it. I hardly ever post something here that I have not checked beforehand on gob.es, gov.pt, boe.es, europa.eu (eur-lex, consilium and so on), legifrance.gouv.frWhat I pointed out earlyer use only official country websites. There is to much talk and not only about lockdowns.
As an aside.I'm all for it. I hardly ever post something here that I have not checked beforehand on gob.es, gov.pt, boe.es, europa.eu (eur-lex, consilium and so on), legifrance.gouv.fr
On this basis, I consider reliable summaries in English-speaking media as helpful for pilgrims' planning and information but I don't have to do that if that's the general wish.
Your appeal is fine. However, much of what gets posted in this Lockdown 2 thread and in the old Lockdowns thread and in other threads, and is accurate, is taken from news media because it often gets published first in the media and then on official government websites, sometimes with a delay of one or two days or even more.When someone has something to point out here , PLEASE use the official government websites
PS: There is a fundamental difference between information about health (Covid-19 related) aspects and information about travel aspects. Rely on wrong information about the latter and all you risk is losing money and some disappointment that you will have to further postpone your Camino. Rely on wrong information about the former and you risk losing your health or cause someone else to loose their health.A better advice would be to not grab the first news article read on a website or item from this morning's Facebook feed and rush to post it here on the forum but to first dig a bit deeper and a bit wider and then post something that rests on a more informed basis of general or current knowledge.
Or as we say "There is many a slip twixt cup and lip".As things evolve we will likely see more ups and downs.
Fears loom in Spanish tourism industry as restrictions in Britain, Germany threaten summer rebound
Visitors from both countries are key to the success of Spain’s high season and its economic recovery from the coronavirus crisisenglish.elpais.com
In my old job, the standard rule about any information presented to decision-makers is “must be from at least three totally independent sources” none of which can be anonymous. The least valuable sources: the news media, government public announcements.Your appeal is fine. However, much of what gets posted in this Lockdown 2 thread and in the old Lockdowns thread and in other threads, and is accurate, is taken from news media because it often gets published first in the media and then on official government websites, sometimes with a delay of one or two days or even more.
Portugal is an up-to-date example for this. Viewers and readers of yesterday's news in Portugal and in the UK may know. After the most recent change and/or clarification of official policy, it is now common knowledge, and I quote verbatim, that non-essential travels from UK are allowed to enter Portugal as of the 00:00 of 17th of May, but must present proof of a negative test to COVID-19 (RT-PCR), carried out within 72 hours before boarding time. Try to find this information on Portuguese government websites or in the Diário da República and you will come up empty-handed. You can find the sentence on the Visit Portugal website but how "official government" is that? There is no "gov" in the url.
A better advice would be to not grab the first news article read on a website or seen in an item from this morning's Facebook feed and rush to post it here on the forum but to first dig a bit deeper and a bit wider and then post something that rests on a broader and more informed basis of general or current knowledge.
You are a wise man, @wayfarer.I try to avoid anything Covid related other than for moderatingbut I would rate Katharina and Jabba's information to be as good as it gets on here.
I don't see why that change in attitude should be considered negative. It sounds a lot like acceptance and patience!I am no longer chomping at the bit about when my next Camino will be as I have no idea. I realize I am being rather negative for now.
Well it is a rather "unhappy acceptance" on my part. I chose to say negative as I think many forum members would see my post in that way...thank you, @Cclearly, for turning my words into somewhat more of a positive.I don't see why that change in attitude should be considered negative. It sounds a lot like acceptance and patience!
Alvaro Lazaga stayed there todayI forgot to mention that Nájera on the Camino Francès remains in lockdown.
I'm with @C clearly. This is simple (and mature) patience, not negative at all, Chris. Which is not to say it's fun. Delayed gratification, when it comes, will be sweet indeed!I am no longer chomping at the bit about when my next Camino will be as I have no idea. I realize I am being rather negative for now. In the mean time I continue to watch, wait, and see
Yes, and:Travel into the non-"green" countries is only discouraged, not forbidden nor prevented.
As several countries in our region are currently scaling up testing for citizens to access cultural, social and entertainment venues, we must remember that there is no such thing as zero risk. Alongside this, only 23% of people in the Region have had a single dose of vaccine, while 11% have completed their vaccine series. We still have some distance to cover before those eligible in the Region receive their vaccine doses.
Neither testing nor receiving vaccines, is a substitute for adherence to measures such as physical distancing and mask wearing in public spaces or health-care settings.
Most of us are still susceptible to the virus and not vaccinated yet. Right now, in the face of a continued threat and new uncertainty, we need to continue to exercise caution, and rethink or avoid international travel. Vaccines may be a light at the end of the tunnel – but we cannot be blinded by that light.
Could not agree more.Yes, and:
Here is the original press release:Covid still a threat to Europe – travel should be avoided, says WHO
Vaccines work against new variants but ‘increased mobility may lead to more transmission’www.theguardian.com
In this press release, Dr Hans Henri P. Kluge, WHO Regional Director for Europe said, amongst other things (emphasis mine):Statement – COVID-19: A fragile progress
20 May 2021, Dr Hans Henri P. Kluge, WHO Regional Director for Europewww.euro.who.int
Some assume that if travel is legal it must then be safe. We must each make up our own minds, and if I were thinking of travelling, I would be listening to the docs at the WHO more than governments with an agenda about opening up. We need to keep our eyes open, so I'm very grateful for the posters here on the Forum who keep posting up-to-date and accurate information.
The decree on Spain's entry ban for foreign travellers from outside of the EU was modified today: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has been added to the list of countries that are exempt from the ban, and Japan has been also added. The decree will enter into force at 00:00 hours on 24 May 2021.Spain's entry ban on foreign travellers from outside of the EU is still set by their Orden INT/657/2020, last updated on 30 April 2021 and currently valid until the end of May.
It is worth pointing out that this is not just an exemption from the ban, but that travellers from those places are under no Covid19-related restrictions nor requirements at all (no need for a vaccine certificate nor negative test), except that the Health Form will still need to be completed by those arriving in ports and airports --The decree on Spain's entry ban for foreign travellers from outside of the EU was modified today: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has been added to the list of countries that are exempt from the ban, and Japan has been also added. The decree will enter into force at 00:00 hours on 24 May 2021.
The other countries that are classified by Spain as safe countries from where travellers can go on non-essential trips to Spain remain on the list: Australia, Israel, New Zealand, Ruanda, Singapur, South Korea, Thailand and China.
See Orden INT/657/2020, last updated on 21 May 2021.
Good point.It is worth pointing out that this is not just an exemption from the ban, but that travellers from those places are under no Covid19-related restrictions nor requirements at all (no need for a vaccine certificate nor negative test), except that the Health Form will still need to be completed by those arriving in ports and airports --
Well, they are a motley crew, aren't they?France is very likely to impose a 10-day quarantine on travellers arriving from the UK.
What is going on?France is very likely to impose a 10-day quarantine on travellers arriving from the UK.
France is not alone. Since two days ago, Germany has severely restricted flights from the UK: airlines and bus and train companies are only allowed to transport German nationals, and those with a right of residency in Germany, from the UK to Germany, and these travellers have to quarantine for 14 days (everyone without exceptions); Austria issued the same rules, valid as of 1 June, meaning no airline travel from the UK to Austria except for passengers who are Austrian nationals or residents of Austria, I don't know about their quarantine rules. So they are even more restrictive than France and obviously more restrictive than Spain and Portugal.Well, they are a motley crew, aren't they?
WHY?
Why not just require everyone to show they were vaccinated if they want to travel?
The AstraZeneca, Pfizer and Moderna are all apparently effective against the Indian Variant.
My answer to that particular question would seriously violate forum rules.WHY?
The UK govt dashboard shows hospital admissions and people on ventilators slightly rising after plateauing for about a week or two, it could be a blip, putting the brakes on freedom of access for UK citizens is probably a sensible thing for the Germans and French to do. We just have to keep vaccinating and wait.WHY?
Well, a part of it is that France has since 2020 been implementing tit-for-tat border control measures when travel from France is restricted.WHY?
That is correct. However, I start to wonder whether it is even news that France imposes quarantine on UK travellers and whether the news is only that they prolong their existing rule about quarantine from 31 May onwards and that it will be 10 days instead of 7 days currently? Because what I see is that travellers from the UK to France had to quarantine anyway for 7 days during the last few months (see website of French Consulate in London).Apart from the three countries mentioned, I have not seen a similar reaction from other countries. Dutch government stated it sees no reason to forbid flights from the UK yet
Glad you are now double jabbed!We may have to live for another month with this patchwork of rules.
Hopefully, from the 1st of July onwards, rules for travel within the EU/Schengen area as well as into the area will be more uniform. I had my second Covid-19 vaccination yesterday and I am now the proud owner of TWO cardboard cards to proof it. Nothing digital to put on my smartphone yet but hopefully it is only a matter of weeks if not days before this option is made available.
Somewhat surprisingly, Orden INT/657/2020, due to expire at the end of May, has been prolonged today. It is now due to expire on 24:00 on 30 June 2021. This is the by now familiar Spanish entry ban on foreign travellers from outside of the EU with its general exception only for travellers from the 10 countries on their 'green' list.Spain's entry ban on foreign travellers from outside of the EU is still set by their Orden INT/657/2020, last updated on 30 April 2021 and currently valid until the end of May.
That is the question...Indian, African, Brazilian, and cross breeds... still can make you sick ...and end your Camino...even if you have 2 doses... but you will be able to better cope with the infection if you get it...Santiago protects his pilgrims... but we must give him a hand in doing so ... ;-) better wait a bit longer and let more people ALL Over the world be vaccinated...remember we all live together in a big blue marble...and we are all pilgrims on this planet...There is no variant that the vaccine can’t currently handle.
Well, although this is a EU mandate, each EU Member State can also set its own rules that depart from the collective mandate -- as for example the lack of restrictions on entry into Spain from the UK, or the greater restrictions for entry into Germany.I am not up on how we got from EU indicating that-each country deciding for themselves when to reopen to non EU members to an EU ban on these self-same potential visitors?
Spain's general entry ban INT/657/2020 is amended by Orden INT/552/2021 of 4 June 2021. I've not digested all the implications in detail. An important passage is this addition:USA, Canada, UK and Rest of The World:
- General entry ban recommended by the EU; put into law by Spain until 30 June 2021 with the exception of the UK whose travellers are currently exempt from this entry ban as far as Spain is concerned. (INT/657/2020)
What this means in practical terms (among other things) is that the particular vaccine must be one that has been authorised for use within the EU, so not for example either the Russian or Chinese ones.This means in particular and in the given context: As of Monday 7 June 2021, persons who travel to Spain from non-EU countries such as the USA, Canada or Mexico, to name but a few, who are in possession of a vaccination certificate recognised by the Spanish Ministry of Health for this purpose
Not rashlyThis is beginning to look quite hopeful for us Canadians, especially those, like myself, who have rashly purchased air tickets already. I am scheduled for my second Pfizer shot a week from tomorrow. My certificate from my first shot is relatively casual, identifying me by name and date of birth, the date of the vaccination and that it was Pfizer. But it seems to be enough. Apparently, the Canadian government is designing a vaccine certificate for Canadians, planned to help us qualify for foreign travel. I wonder if the recommendation of "essential travel only" will be lifted before I leave in September. I am trying to remind myself of the essential fact that I am unlikely to die of the virus between now and then. Almost anything else may happen.
I get my 2nd shot at the end of this month, and, like you, plan on a September Camino and have the same hope that the travel restrictions will be loosened by then.This is beginning to look quite hopeful for us Canadians, especially those, like myself, who have rashly purchased air tickets already. I am scheduled for my second Pfizer shot a week from tomorrow. My certificate from my first shot is relatively casual, identifying me by name and date of birth, the date of the vaccination and that it was Pfizer. But it seems to be enough. Apparently, the Canadian government is designing a vaccine certificate for Canadians, planned to help us qualify for foreign travel. I wonder if the recommendation of "essential travel only" will be lifted before I leave in September. I am trying to remind myself of the essential fact that I am unlikely to die of the virus between now and then. Almost anything else may happen.
My US vaccination certificate also lacks an ID number. Official statements published in May explicitly require a passport or ID number on the certificate. Has that changed?My certificate from my first shot is relatively casual, identifying me by name and date of birth, the date of the vaccination and that it was Pfizer. But it seems to be enough.
See Do I have to travel with the certificate or document proving vaccination against COVID-19 to enter Spain? on the SPTH website: Any such document shall contain at least the following information: Traveller's name and surnames, personal identification number used to obtain SpTH QR. In addition: date of complete vaccination, vaccine administered and country where vaccinated.My US vaccination certificate also lacks an ID number. Official statements published in May explicitly require a passport or ID number on the certificate. Has that changed?
I have asked my consulate if I can supply additional documentation, such as a letter from my doctor, but they won't give me a straight answer.
There are no numbers on the form which the person who vaccinated me filled in, certainly no passport number. And my doctor had absolutely nothing to do with it and does not know about it. I made an appointment and went to a public clinic, which is how it is done in Alberta. I suppose that the vaccine certificate, which the federal government has proposed, will contain my passport number, as well as my vaccine information. I don't know how that information may pass from the provincial government to the federal government, or when the whole process of producing such certificates will even start. If the Spanish government wants people to visit, they must find some way that it can function. I can only hope that it will all be sorted out before my flight to Spain in September.You MUST fill in the SpTH form and get the SpTH QR code before the departure. When you fill in the form you must indicate a personal ID number, which will be your passport number if you are a US citizen. The same number must be on your documentation about your vaccination.
Stamp? I missed that in the Spanish announcements I've read. I doubt seriously that my GP has any kind of a stamp. Her practice is all-digital at this point, although I imagine she can manage a signature. If I overlooked a passage about a stamp, I'd appreciate a pointer to it - it might just be the straw that makes me scrub my trip.I had assumed that one could go to one's GP and he would write a note with the required info and signature and stamp. In any case, this issue is only of importance to people who will fly from the USA, Canada and countries in this category in the next few days. Then there will be reports from travellers, maybe even on this forum, about what people did and how it went.
I doubt seriously that my GP has any kind of a stamp.
Not everyone is fully digitized. And thete's no standardized paper proof, especially internationally. The front side of my laminated certificate has my Father's first name (misspelled), my Burmese name and phone #, but neither my passport name nor number. It's useless as proof. I have a stamp in the yellow WHO booklet, too, but that doesn't seem much better."Asked why tests will be required even from vaccinated American visitors, Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the problem was a lack of standardised digital proof.
"They have vaccinated lots of people but they haven't digitised it -- when you get vaccinated you often just get a sheet of paper,"
Spaniards love their sellos, so it's always a good rule of thumb to make sure you have one, dated and signed, on any paper document that they may require.Stamp? I missed that in the Spanish announcements I've read.
Make that: signature on official looking paper. It was a suggestion. I know that there was a requirement for the inclusion of a personal ID until June 7. I'm no longer sure that it will be required after June 7. I suggest that we wait until the SpTH website has been duly updated.Stamp? I missed that in the Spanish announcements I've read. I doubt seriously that my GP has any kind of a stamp. Her practice is all-digital at this point, although I imagine she can manage a signature. If I overlooked a passage about a stamp, I'd appreciate a pointer to it - it might just be the straw that makes me scrub my trip.
The WHO is working on developing a digital Smart Vaccination Certificate.I have a stamp in the yellow WHO booklet, too, but that doesn't seem much better.
Great!The WHO is working on developing a digital Smart Vaccination Certificate.
I am sure it will be clarified if the ID number is our passport number.If I didn't think that it is a complete and utter waste of time, I'd write to them. So, current state of affairs - all the quotes are taken from official Spanish government sources. One out of three requires your personal ID number on your vaccination document, the other two don't. My EU Covid certificate will not have my personal ID number on it and I don't lose sleep over it. I know what I'd do if I were in other people's shoes: I'd go by the text in the ministerial decree - no personal ID number on vaccination document. Vaya con dios, is all I can say. Bear with me:
Ministerial decree of 4 June 2021, requirements for vaccination document (my translation from Spanish):
Info that appears when you start reading SpTh webpage, requirements for vaccination document, direct quote, make of it what you will, the Spanish text is marginally better:
- your name;
- date of vaccination with date of the last jab;
- type of vaccine;
- number of doses administered/complete schedule;
- issuing country;
- agency/agent who issued the certificate.
Info that also appears on the FAQ page on the SpTH webpage, requirements for vaccination document, direct quote:
- name and surname of the traveller;
- date of complete vaccination;
- vaccine administered;
- country of vaccination;
- of vaccination completed, vaccine administered and country of vaccination.
- Traveller's name and surnames,
- personal identification number used to obtain SpTH QR;
- date of complete vaccination;
- vaccine administered;
- country where vaccinated.
The question is whether, as of June 7, Americans will even need to have their passport number shown on the document that proves their vaccination. Whether it is not enough when the documentation that they carry with them to Spain shows their full name and the specific details about the vaccination itself. Perhaps I didn't make this clear in my previous comment.I am sure it will be clarified if the ID number is our passport number.
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