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Just to clarify all you want are dogs that have growled or barked in an aggressive manner to a human?
"Dogs behaving badly" on the Inverno:
In Villavieja (End of hamlet), Santalla del Bierzo (Start of village, owner in house on right, dog is little and very aggressive), Vilarmao (White house on the right just before farm on the right, owner in his 30's, daughter around 7-8 years old, 2 dogs, the biggest was very aggressive, and the owner did't care that the dog chased me down the public road), Just before the hamlet Broza (The Family was outside working in the fields next to the public road, 4 or 5 loose dogs came after me, the biggest dog was very aggressive, and the owner had no control but tried. Had to use my sticks to make space between me and the dog). In Penasillas pilgrims have to pass a big group of barking loose dogs.
On the Inverno I meet big loose barking dogs every day.
If the dog can't stay on the property, but goes on the public road, it should not be loose. That is my opinion!
I am happy, that the Camino de Inverno Association is taken "the loose dog-problem" serious
It probably takes a while for a new route to become completely pilgrim friendly. The Camino Frances has had a decade to control dogs. It may take some time before the Invierno reaches that point. Associations and governments need to take the lead.Camino de Inverno Association is taken "the loose dog-problem" serious
If you can't deal with the local dogs, stay home. They live there and you are a guest, not someone to dictate local dog laws.
If the local population finds dog are keeping pilgrims away, and they actually want more pilgrims, they will do something about it.
About 20 years ago Camino Francés had problems with loose dogs,
Pilgrims are a big part in the tourist-industri, specially in Galicia, so many locals benefits from pilgrims passing their area.
My first dog encounter was in Villavieja; an innocent looking small dog spotted me as I came up the path into the village but just as I got next to him he went crazy and then his buddies up the hill came out barking and snarling and then I heard dogs all over the village barking. It was intimidating, but none of them threatened me. But yes, the mastiff on the other end of the village - I believe I encountered the same dog; I started to back up thinking I would return to Ponferrada if necessary, but his owner came out of the garage (or whatever) and took him back in. Another spot I remember was just out of Chantada -perhaps it was Boan - anyhow, it was early morning and the road was full of dogs all barking at me. But I estimate encountering at least 10-14 dogs a day, each day. But as you quoted me reporting...once I realized they weren't trained to attack me, they were much less threatening.The problem on the Camino Invierno is that because of the very few pilgrims going through, some owners leave their guard dogs out. There are a few places where pilgrims report being terrified over and over by the same dogs. If the repeat offenders can be identified, the Amigos are willing to go to talk with the owners. For starters, there is one in Villavieja, a beautiful little hamlet right before the ascent to Cornatel castle. There is a huge mastiff on the far end of the village that is probably harmless but terrifying to non-dog people. I have had two encounters with him, four years apart, and they were not pleasant.
So, what I'm looking for is information on those loose dogs that scared the pants off the people walking by. Thanks.
I just checked my notes and it was outside of Quiroga where I encountered the especially frightening mastiff. I'm sorry I didn't specify which hamlet though.My first dog encounter was in Villavieja; an innocent looking small dog spotted me as I came up the path into the village but just as I got next to him he went crazy and then his buddies up the hill came out barking and snarling and then I heard dogs all over the village barking. It was intimidating, but none of them threatened me. But yes, the mastiff on the other end of the village - I believe I encountered the same dog; I started to back up thinking I would return to Ponferrada if necessary, but his owner came out of the garage (or whatever) and took him back in. Another spot I remember was just out of Chantada -perhaps it was Boan - anyhow, it was early morning and the road was full of dogs all barking at me. But I estimate encountering at least 10-14 dogs a day, each day. But as you quoted me reporting...once I realized they weren't trained to attack me, they were much less threatening.
The ankle biters are the worst! I suppose they are not the most dangerous, but they are the most annoying, and because they are small, their owners do a poor job of keeping them under control.an innocent looking small dog spotted me
Very bad answer!! C'mon... Leaving mad dogs loose outside is not responsible. Some of these dogs are not only barkers, they attack. Believe me, I know... So I think that dog owners there, here, or in any country, should show care and responsible action/prévention.If you can't deal with the local dogs, stay home. They live there and you are a guest, not someone to dictate local dog laws.
If the local population finds dog are keeping pilgrims away, and they actually want more pilgrims, they will do something about it.
I really do understand that many people have problems with dogs on the loose - after all, they are kept as "guard" dogs and their instinct is to repel invaders with logical results. Unfortunately, to protect pilgrims the sad result will be that many are then kept chained up and never let off. I would not like it and I doubt dogs do either.
If you can't deal with the local dogs, stay home. They live there and you are a guest, not someone to dictate local dog laws.
If the local population finds dog are keeping pilgrims away, and they actually want more pilgrims, they will do something about it.
Maybe the solution in villages like Villavieja with no services (I think) is marking an alternative path (where possible) to avoid the village.
That might be a good idea in some places, in fact, I wound up going around a pueblo on the Camino Olvidado because of the dogs. But doing that before Villavieja would put you on the highway all the way up to the Castillo de Cornatel, and that would be a real shame.
Villavieja is in the process of building an albergue, so maybe once it's open, the owner of that dog will be shmed into being a responsible owner.
In your neck of the woods perhaps, but not elsewhere. Where I live I would agree with you, but before harping about leashes I would fight for these dogs being fed more then once a week.As we say in Ireland thats Bollox!!!!
All dogs in the public space should be on leads or tied up...its called responsible dog ownership!
eager dogs can pop up anywhere!
I hope to be passing through Soria later this week, so I can let you know if there's still a problem with the
... famélicos galgos,
de galgos flacos y agudos,
que pululan
por las sórdidas callejas
y a la medianoche ululan,
quando granznan las cornejas
If you can't deal with the local dogs, stay home. They live there and you are a guest, not someone to dictate local dog laws.
Really, stay on the sanitized CF if you cannot Cope with the reality of the locals. These dogs serve a purpose according to their owner needs, or wants. Enough with walkers from abroad dictating lifestyle of the locals so we can enjoy our little trip.
As you said so well, "a looooong time ago!". And as you also said, dogs are doing their jobs, and good working dogs do thei jobs on command and know what their job is. I really think the locals and their needs come before the tourits' needs.Hmm, what unhelpful comments if I may say so!
We've had a house in Spain since I was 11 years old (a looooong time ago!) and then, there were loads of roaming, dangerous dogs. I used to call them the 'pink dogs' as most seemed to have some skin disease and lost their fur. We used to walk in large groups when coming back at night from a neighbouring village that had a 'fiesta' as that kept them away.
Nothing to do with tourists wanting to impose their laws, there weren't any tourists! They were a serious problem for the locals and eventually, it was dealt with.
Things can improve, thank goodness. No-one wants to go back to those times
As for the guard dogs... They are often let loose in very rural areas to protect their owners and their properties, against prospective thieves, attackers, etc. Fine. But if the path crosses what they see as their territory, what is a pilgrim to do? The dog are doing their job, yes, but is it compatible with non-threatening walkers going about their business on a public path/road?
I do believe these issues can be solved to the mutual benefit of all parties. It just takes a bit of understanding.
I really think the locals and their needs come before the tourits' needs.
In that case, the locals do not need funds to be directed towards municipal albergues, do they?
So, if one cannot walk the 30 or 40 km between villages/towns, one ought not to attempt the camino?[/QUOTE
I think you will find that munis are not the albergues mushrooming up, but privates. And if they do it must be because they think there is good money to be made, therefor meaning the dogs are not the threat people aeem to think they are. No? And if there are so many rabid dogs threatening walkers, does it matter if there are 5 or 40 km netween albergues? Surely the rabid dogs will atrack people even if they have only walked 5 km. And yes, if you annot walk 30 km, or 40, don't walk. I certainly didn't walk the Norte, my first choice, in 2007, because I kmew I couldn't cover those distances. Nor do I think I can walk other routes where 30km day in and day out are the norm.
I went to the Olympics in Sochi. To acommodate the tourists who were intimidated by dogs, they poisoned the strays just before the games opened. One was dying in a ditch my first day there.
Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly.If the local population finds dog are keeping pilgrims away, and they actually want more pilgrims, they will do something about it.
Thanks Fraluchi.. I have tried those when I lived in a place with a lot of unpredictable street dogs. They aren't effective. After a few weeks there I gave up walking anywhere and rode a motorbike so I could get away from them. Or used the 'pick up/throw a real or pretend rock' strategy which mostly worked there.. though I would not rely on that as a strategy everywhere.In Spain you can buy a DOGCHASER in any shop which sells hunting gear and other related gadgets. Just in case you fear the fearless guard dogs!
It certainly is less cruel than pepper spray.They aren't effective. After a few weeks there I gave up walking anywhere and rode a motorbike so I could get away from them.
Sorry, newgabe, but the one we bought in Santiago has proven very effective! ( maybe yours was made in China)Thanks Fraluchi.. I have tried those when I lived in a place with a lot of unpredictable street dogs. They aren't effective.
http://www.wikihow.com/Handle-a-Dog-Attack
You have really given me a dilemma here! I keep responding to threads along the lines of "Remember its their country. On the other hand dog phobia and stories of Camino dogs stopped me going on Camino for 38 years until last October. Fear of dogs stops me walking lots of places at home too. A friend reassured me and my group looked out for me and I got past dogs (big but silent or contained) with help and (unknown to me) it was "only" my friend who had a near miss. I think I will stick to disagreeing with you (even though it is their country) because all my life I have been (in any country) totally peed off by the "put up with anything a dog will do" attitude of dog lovers. Love this forum though! Wish I'd found it 38 years ago (oh no www then!)If you can't deal with the local dogs, stay home. They live there and you are a guest, not someone to dictate local dog laws.
If the local population finds dog are keeping pilgrims away, and they actually want more pilgrims, they will do something about it.
t I don't think it's OK to let a dog run loose and terrorise people passing by. I don't care where in the world you are, that's just irresponsible behaviour. Dog owners, are responsible for their dogs' actions. That's pretty basic and I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a culture where that isn't the norm.....
If some kid steals your backpack, should you just say "Hey, it's their culture, if I don't like it I should just stay home?"
Wow! Great set of responses. I particularly like the highly relevant gun analogy. Sorry guys, I stand by my position.
There are tough things in any country you travel to. In Canada, bears roam your campsite. In Mexico, cops set up “check stations” and you don’t get by without donating a little money. In Russia, Nigeria, and Honduras, I’ve seen the same, except there they actually do point a gun in your face. In Indonesia lepers pound on your window asking for handouts and transvestite prostitutes follow you back to your hotel. In rural Spain farm dogs run free and bark at you. Deal with it.
I’m not saying all those things are good, but they are what they are. I’ll try to fix problems in my own country, but if I don’t like how things are where I visit, I don’t tell them they should do it the same as we do it in Australia, or Ireland or Canada, I accept the place for what it is or go someplace where I approve of how things work.
Tourists who want to make the place they visit just like home are simply arrogant. If a place has too many guns, wild dogs, or customs you don't like, recognize your limitations and go somewhere you are comfortable.
I really sympathize with your fear of dogs, and am sorry that it kept you so long from enjoying the Camino, and also walks at home. But what I'm trying to say here is that a fear is not necessarily based in reality. Some walkers may be very afraid of a loose dog that barks at them as they walk by (and on the Invierno they may see a pilgrim a week) but if that fear means the dog ends up living it's life on a chain, that isn't a morally fair trade off in my opinion. This may seem like much ado about nothing, but I'd ask you to look into what a life on a chain means for a naturally sociable, active animal. Again, I'm not downplaying the reality of your fear, I'm just giving another point of view for folks who may not know many dogs.You have really given me a dilemma here! I keep responding to threads along the lines of "Remember its their country. On the other hand dog phobia and stories of Camino dogs stopped me going on Camino for 38 years until last October. Fear of dogs stops me walking lots of places at home too. A friend reassured me and my group looked out for me and I got past dogs (big but silent or contained) with help and (unknown to me) it was "only" my friend who had a near miss. I think I will stick to disagreeing with you (even though it is their country) because all my life I have been (in any country) totally peed off by the "put up with anything a dog will do" attitude of dog lovers. Love this forum though! Wish I'd found it 38 years ago (oh no www then!)
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