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I do not have two passports so I will always br registered as South African. I would hoever say that in the event of me having two I would present the passport of where I was born. If that is not possible then use the one of the country where you reside.I love reading the stats about which countries pilgrims are from. I love seeing numbers from my own countries. I am a dual national, and I feel equally strongly/loyal about both. Last year my credencial carried one of my nationalities literally because it was the first passport I got out of my pocket when I filled the first page of the credencial.
However that nationality also happens to be very well represented on the Camino, and my other nationality (the one that I didn’t register with) not so much. So I felt a little guilty/disloyal that my poor, smaller, less well represented nationality didn’t count towards the starts.
I’m just curious...if you have two nationalities how do you pick which one you put down on your credencial?
It is of course similar to the "De dónde eres?" question. Where am I from? Neither my country of birth nor my country of residence is a good answer to this question because often it's more a "Who are you?" than a "Where are you from?" question.
When someone asks "de donde eres..." I usually reply Florida. As an American and proudly so, I nonetheless, am aware that being one these days in a foreign country can automatically make you a lightning rod for all manner of adverse commentary and opinion.
So, I consider my opening gambit a veiled attempt at deflection. While Florida is not a country, it is a unique enough place that people who know where it is, are usually satisfied. Most folks appreciate that I live in a tropical paradise and leave it as that...
I do not mind a healthy debate, discussion, and enjoy answering questions as best I can, whenever and wherever I can. My forum posts reflect that personality defect... But, I will be no one's whipping boy...or scapegoat...ever...
In my experience and education, everyone is always entitled to an opinion or three. But no human being is entitled to belittle, insult, or marginalize another just because of something about them that they have little or no control over... end of side point... back to main thread...
I used to sometimes say I was from Toronto Canada. Actually, what remains of my small family does live just across the Lake Ontario, near Rochester, NY, perhaps 70 miles as the proverbial crow flies. So, I was close. Plus, I have spent enough time in Canada and continue to follow events and current happenings to carry this off, if need be.
However, and this is the interesting thing, when asked "de donde eres?" giving the Florida answer, and establishing that Florida is indeed, "en los Estados Unidos..." the person asking frequently says, "...no, WHERE are you FROM? After two or three seconds, the light bulb goes off over my head... THEN I realize what they are really asking...
Yes, they, and most folks you meet on the Camino are curious about nationality. But the "...WHERE are you FROM..." question means what is your ancestry. Evidently, my light olive skin and largely European features are found interesting by some I meet. Now that my hair is mostly grey as is my beard, I suppose some find me more perplexing...I know I do...
When I traveled around Europe, both east and west, over the past 40 years, many indigenous folks thought that I was from there...wherever I was... So, Italians thought I was Italian, Hungarians thought I was from there, and French folks thought I was from France. Likewise for Belgium, Germany, Greece, Poland, the Czech Republic, etc.
It is funny (strange) to be walking in Budapest and have some person you never saw before come up to you in the street to ask you for directions, speaking to you like a native. These folks are usually surprised when you explain that you are tourist, from American and do not speak (x) well. I try to learn as much for each country I visit.
Last year, I finally did the DNA thing just to assuage MY curiosity. Long story shorter, it turns out that while I am comprised of 100 % European ancestry, my genes going back some 10 generations, are from all over the continent. From Ireland the UK, and France, across Germany and Austria, to Hungary, Poland and "unspecified Eastern European" to the East, but mostly from Italy and Sicily, I am what I am... an American of mixed European breed components... Go figure...
I guess that explains why I can easily pass as Spanish in Spain and Portuguese in Portugal...
I always enjoy meeting folks from places I have not visited either privately or professionally. More than that, meeting people from countries that were forbidden to me while I was working for my government is most fascinating.
What is most revealing is that on Camino, people are people. Once you get past any artifice, people the world over are the same. THAT is one of the pleasures I enjoy every time I am on Camino or working as a volunteer.
Hope this helps the dailog...
Having been on the Camino four times now, I am used to people indicating their State rather than their country of USA. However, if you live in Florida, have relatives in New York, why would you feel it was necessary to indicate you were from Canada? A friendly question and not intended as anything other than that.
I depends on the context of the question, who is present, and the level of evident tension... There is an old Japanese proverb that says that "...the nail that sticks up gets hammered down..." I try never to be the nail...
Sometimes, deflection is the better choice... You would have to be present to understand what I mean...
IIRC last year, Dave DID get into one of those "lightning rod" situations. It affected him VERY profoundly and he took a time out. The good news is that he is back, better than ever.
I long ago learned the proper way to spell "neighbour, parlour, etc." I consider myself 'bilingual' in English... I can even translate on the fly from the Queen's English into colloquial American...LOL
It must be nice to be from the one country that no one dislikes...just because...
Cheers!
I think I know your meaning but be careful of your wording. I've been known to say that my hometown was a great place to be from.I am thankful everyday that my ancestors emigrated from Scotland
I think I know your meaning but be caeful of your wording. I've been known to say that my hometown was a great place to be from.
Yes, I take your meaning but due to the "highland clearances" etc. many of our ancestors had little choice.
Before Tom gives a reply let me throw in my two cents. It helps narrow down the geography for one thing. Texas is about the size of France after all. Also Texas is quite different from Florida or New England."I´m Mike, from .....town / Texas.
Before Tom gives a reply let me throw in my two cents. It helps narrow down the geography for one thing. Texas is about the size of France after all. Also Texas is quite different from Florida or New England.
I can even translate on the fly from the Queen's English
Before Tom gives a reply let me throw in my two cents. It helps narrow down the geography for one thing. Texas is about the size of France after all. Also Texas is quite different from Florida or New England.
IIRC last year, Dave DID get into one of those "lightning rod" situations. It affected him VERY profoundly and he took a time out. The good news is that he is back, better than ever.
I long ago learned the proper way to spell "neighbour, parlour, etc." I consider myself 'bilingual' in English... I can even translate on the fly from the Queen's English into colloquial American...LOL
It must be nice to be from the one country that no one dislikes...just because...
Cheers!
I can't speak for the whole world but I think it's quite accurate to say that in Europe, with the exception of the UK and perhaps Ireland (both of them English speaking countries), national stereotypes about Canadians are not very well developed or widely known. I hope that's not too disappointing as an answer.I sometimes wonder about how the world views Canadians.
I have the last Reacher novel sitting on the desk. Have not cracked it yet. Thanks for the spoiler alert...
Child's writing is very good for a Brit writing about the American military and domestic law enforcement. He appears to have his facts mostly correct. Nearly all his readers would not even notice the occasionally 'oopsie' in something factual. I do, because, when working, I was in federal law enforcement and had a lot of close interaction with the military.
I shall read this last book with interest as his base of writing operations has now changed. Thanks for the tips.
I can't speak for the whole world but I think it's quite accurate to say that in Europe, with the exception of the UK and perhaps Ireland (both of them English speaking countries), national stereotypes about Canadians are not very well developed or widely known. I hope that's not too disappointing as an answer.
I think well developed national stereotypes exist mainly between neighbouring regions, cultures or countries or where there are other closer connections, either currently or in the past.
Well, this was in the 1970s but while touring New Zealand I would almost always be asked if I were a Canadian, not an American. I asked about this a few times and was told that New Zealanders used to ask if someone with a North American accent was an American but this upset the Canadians so much that the Kiwis learned to avoid trouble.I sometimes wonder about how the world views Canadians.
Part of the problem is being a smaller population Country smack up against a bigger Nation. I seem to remember having a conversation with someone regarding New Zealand and Australia. I remember, as well, our first Prime Minister Trudeau (Pierre) saying something to the effect that being beside the USA was like sleeping with an elephant...every time it rolls over you are significantly affected
As a Canadian born, I am wondering what the Federal Police Force (in caps) is. I have never heard of it. Is there some regulation that retired members of the (I could guess) have to keep it a secret? No one will hear it from me.Interesting t2andreo as I was in our country's Federal Police Force for 22 years. I too find myself, occasionally, saying "what the..." as I read Child. Having said that, I have read them all and enjoyed them.
As a Canadian born, I am wondering what the Federal Police Force (in caps) is. I have never heard of it. Is there some regulation that retired members of the (I could guess) have to keep it a secret? No one will hear it from me.
Well, this was in the 1970s but while touring New Zealand I would almost always be asked if I were a Canadian, not an American. I asked about this a few times and was told that New Zealanders used to ask if someone with a North American accent was an American but this upset the Canadians so much that the Kiwis learned to avoid trouble.
As opposed to Australians, who will insult you to your face --- but somehow have that endear them to you.Ah! Ever the diplomats.
Everyone spoke in his mother tongue and only when we did not understand each other, we briefly switched to English.
There are no Germans just Bavarians, Frankonians, Swabian, Alemans, and so on, similar to your States. It’s a great conversation startes, if you wantt it.Hallo t2andreo,
during my ways most of the people from the US introduce themself even to "non US people" like you do:
"I´m Mike, from .....town / Texas.
I know this "phenomenon" only from the US. No Italian says I'm from Umbria, except to other Italians. Every french is from France and not from Gascogne.
Yes of course, a few of us Germans like to be at first from Bavaria
That's a serious question from me. Is this local patriotism? Is the emotional relationship with the state so strong?
I'm curious about your answer
Michael
And we always register and say 'from Costa Rica', although I'm dual nationality Brit and Dutch and Adriaan is Dutch. The reason being is that we try to boost the minority, so to speak! The first year we walked the Camino, just 34 people had registered from Costa Rica.I always answered “from Panama”, only because I have lived there for the past 10 years. It’s also a fun answer, too. Good conversation starter.
Q. How do you get 20 Canadians out of a swimming pool?I sometimes wonder about how the world views Canadians. I just finished the latest "Jack Reacher" book written by Lee Child. Child is a Brit living in the USA now. Some of you may be familiar with the Reacher series. At any rate two Canadians get involved in a dicey situation and take refuge in an American motel. Child is full of references such as the time the woman throws a balled up piece of paper at the waste basket and misses. Child indicates that "because she was Canadian, she went and picked it up. Further she stands on the motel bed to look for a camera and "because she was Canadian, she took her shoes off"
Reminds me of the tongue in cheek story of the Canadian Olympic athlete who won a gold medal and apologized to the 2nd and 3rd place athletes.
I had a similar conversation with people in Finland in the early 80s.Part of the problem is being a smaller population Country smack up against a bigger Nation. I seem to remember having a conversation with someone regarding New Zealand and Australia. I remember, as well, our first Prime Minister Trudeau (Pierre) saying something to the effect that being beside the USA was like sleeping with an elephant...every time it rolls over you are significantly affected
De donde.... is indeed an interesting question for someone like me. I carry a US passport but was born in Korea. When I answer Seattle, WA, the questioner often continues to stare at me as if to say, "I mean where are you really from?" This happens almost all the time on the Spanish camino but it also happens in many rural US areas too. Some Spanish hospitaleros would even write "Korea" even after looking at my US passport. That's how strong one's assumptions can be, folks, haha!I love readi the stats about which countries pilgrims are from. I love seeing numbers from my own countries. I am a dual national, and I feel equally strongly/loyal about both. Last year my credencial carried one of my nationalities literally because it was the first passport I got out of my pocket when I filled the first page of the credencial.
However that nationality also happens to be very well represented on the Camino, and my other nationality (the one that I didn’t register with) not so much. So I felt a little guilty/disloyal that my poor, smaller, less well represented nationality didn’t count towards the starts.
I’m just curious...if you have two nationalities how do you pick which one you put down on your credencial?
All the way from Southern Denmark ( Sønderjylland) down to Frijsland, Holland and Germany we can understand each other quite well, and it is still a marvellous wonder how this mix works, but it does!.About dialect and different languages
My mother was born in the late thirties on a farm in northern Germany und grew up only speaking dialect, or better, a more or less completely different language. We call it "platt" (in means: flat - like the Country).
She spoke standard German only in school and in the church until she left home.
We as a family spoke only standard German at home, because the people in my homearea came from everywhere to work in the big industrie. And all my uncles and aunts did the same at home.
When we children were little and visited our grandparents, my mother forgot all the knowledge in standard German when she got out of the car there. It was always a big meeting with all my many uncles, aunts and cousins and the language which was used by the adults, even to talk to the children, was for sure platt. Only all the children spoke standard German to each other.
Platt is much closer to the Dutch language in grammar and in many words than to the German. And for Bavarians it´s like Cambodien
Last year I was on the Portugues with two caminofriends from the Netherlands, with whom, until our walk, I mostly spoke German when we were alone.
I have to say, that most of the dutch people are able to understand German and many of them could speak it very very well. As a shame for my compatriots and me, I must confess, that we expect more or less, that a Dutch can speak German,on the other hand, nearly nobody in Germany speaks Dutch.
We picked up Belinda, also from Holland, at our way to the coast. She could understand German quite well, but could not speak it. So we had the situation, that three dutch people "should" speak English to each other in order not to exclude me. And we decided to do an experiment. Everyone spoke in his mother tongue and only when we did not understand each other, we briefly switched to English.
It was so funny and it works quite well, thanks to my platt experiences with my family. I can understand nearly everything, when someone is talking directly with me, it´s much more difficult to follow a conversation in a dutch group, but it works
When we met other Dutch or German people, it was very confusing for them. Especially when they started speaking dutch to me, because they heard Belinda, Christa and Gerhard doing it and I answered in German. We laughed a lot and I learned a lot.
At the end of our Camino they declared me to an "Dutch honorary"
Since then, Christa and Gerhard speak only Dutch with me.
On my next Camino I can try it with French. But I had only one year French lessons - in the eighties.
Wish me good luck
I am a U.S. citizen born in Viet Nam. For my first credential, I put down "Viet Nam." Unfortunately it did not matter as they went with my passport which is American. I guess if I had dual citizenships it would have worked.I love reading the stats about which countries pilgrims are from. I love seeing numbers from my own countries. I am a dual national, and I feel equally strongly/loyal about both. Last year my credencial carried one of my nationalities literally because it was the first passport I got out of my pocket when I filled the first page of the credencial.
However that nationality also happens to be very well represented on the Camino, and my other nationality (the one that I didn’t register with) not so much. So I felt a little guilty/disloyal that my poor, smaller, less well represented nationality didn’t count towards the starts.
I’m just curious...if you have two nationalities how do you pick which one you put down on your credencial?
That's MY line!! I always say, "Dallas is a great place to be FROM" (thinking '...very far from...). Anyway, my complicated story is, I was born in Neuilly-sur-Seine France, to American parents, but that does not make me eligible for French citizenship or EU passport. I grew up in TX and left the USA at age 22. I've been in Australia since 1981 and have had Oz passport since 2005. My 2 kids born here have dual citizenship, Oz-USA, one lives in Adelaide, one in Seattle. It's funny, I had no desire ever to live again in the USA but I waited until the US laws changed, so that I could acquire Australian citizenship without losing my US citizenship. I identified throughout my Camino as "Anna from Australia" and used my Oz passport solely, too. But, I took along the Yank passport, (just in case).... Nowadays, I'm happy to remain an Australian, born in France, former resident of Texas and UT graduate, complimented on my spoken French when I travel. And VERY glad that, when I visit my son and his family, (using my US passport by the way), I go to Seattle and NOT Dallas (sorry Big D, but after you've lived in Austin, Berlin, Paris, Tasmania, South Australia, really, you can't go "home" again).I think I know your meaning but be caeful of your wording. I've been known to say that my hometown was a great place to be from.
Viel glück! (That's me trying to use the tiny bit of (spoken) standard German I learned long ago... how did I do?About dialect and different languages
My mother was born in the late thirties on a farm in northern Germany und grew up only speaking dialect, or better, a more or less completely different language. We call it "platt" (in means: flat - like the Country).
She spoke standard German only in school and in the church until she left home.
We as a family spoke only standard German at home, because the people in my homearea came from everywhere to work in the big industrie. And all my uncles and aunts did the same at home.
When we children were little and visited our grandparents, my mother forgot all the knowledge in standard German when she got out of the car there. It was always a big meeting with all my many uncles, aunts and cousins and the language which was used by the adults, even to talk to the children, was for sure platt. Only all the children spoke standard German to each other.
Platt is much closer to the Dutch language in grammar and in many words than to the German. And for Bavarians it´s like Cambodien
Last year I was on the Portugues with two caminofriends from the Netherlands, with whom, until our walk, I mostly spoke German when we were alone.
I have to say, that most of the dutch people are able to understand German and many of them could speak it very very well. As a shame for my compatriots and me, I must confess, that we expect more or less, that a Dutch can speak German,on the other hand, nearly nobody in Germany speaks Dutch.
We picked up Belinda, also from Holland, at our way to the coast. She could understand German quite well, but could not speak it. So we had the situation, that three dutch people "should" speak English to each other in order not to exclude me. And we decided to do an experiment. Everyone spoke in his mother tongue and only when we did not understand each other, we briefly switched to English.
It was so funny and it works quite well, thanks to my platt experiences with my family. I can understand nearly everything, when someone is talking directly with me, it´s much more difficult to follow a conversation in a dutch group, but it works
When we met other Dutch or German people, it was very confusing for them. Especially when they started speaking dutch to me, because they heard Belinda, Christa and Gerhard doing it and I answered in German. We laughed a lot and I learned a lot.
At the end of our Camino they declared me to an "Dutch honorary"
Since then, Christa and Gerhard speak only Dutch with me.
On my next Camino I can try it with French. But I had only one year French lessons - in the eighties.
Wish me good luck
Viel glück! (That's me trying to use the tiny bit of (spoken) standard German I learned long ago... how did I do?
In that case, I have been dead since secondary school. I loved learning German...although I rarely have occasion to use it.P E R F E C T
A little hint for writing: In the complicated German language, a feeling (happiness, love, hatred etc) is written with a big letter.
When I was a pupil, we asked our teacher, why we has to learn those nonsensical rules. You can understand it even without the big letter. And we got a good example:
"Genossen" is the salutation used by members of the Socialdemocratic and Communist party (comrade)
but "genossen" is a grammatical form of "enjoy" in the past.
Ich habe liebe Genossen (I have lovely comrades)
Ich habe Liebe genossen (I enjoyed love)
A quote from Mark Twain, who was not a big friend ofmy wonderful mother longue
"The German language should be gently and respectfully put down to the dead languages, because only the dead have the time to learn that language."
Well, I am a great admirer of Mark Twain's writing (and also of Samuel Clemens), but he DID reflect his era and culture at times, particularly when he permitted himself to use racial or cultural generalisations. Perhaps if he had had a helpful friend to explain the language, as you have helped me here, he might have altered his opinion. I am fascinated by languages and wish I could speak more fluently in more of them.P E R F E C T
A little hint for writing: In the complicated German language, a feeling (happiness, love, hatred etc) is written with a big letter.
When I was a pupil, we asked our teacher, why we has to learn those nonsensical rules. You can understand it even without the big letter. And we got a good example:
"Genossen" is the salutation used by members of the Socialdemocratic and Communist party (comrade)
but "genossen" is a grammatical form of "enjoy" in the past.
Ich habe liebe Genossen (I have lovely comrades)
Ich habe Liebe genossen (I enjoyed love)
A quote from Mark Twain, who was not a big friend ofmy wonderful mother longue
"The German language should be gently and respectfully put down to the dead languages, because only the dead have the time to learn that language."
I typically would answer, “Alaska” to those not obviously Americans, and “Anchorage” to the Americans. People are often curious about AK.Hallo t2andreo,
during my ways most of the people from the US introduce themself even to "non US people" like you do:
"I´m Mike, from .....town / Texas.
I know this "phenomenon" only from the US. No Italian says I'm from Umbria, except to other Italians. Every french is from France and not from Gascogne.
Yes of course, a few of us Germans like to be at first from Bavaria
That's a serious question from me. Is this local patriotism? Is the emotional relationship with the state so strong?
I'm curious about your answer
Michael
Michael, thankfully someone removed my orginal post, i realize this forum just like the Camino itself is no place for political crap. I hope you read my latest post on this thread, it’s much more indictive of my Camino experience. Peace Caligal@Caligal
I certainly do not want to make fun of you, but I did not recognize the positive effect of your tactics. Maybe you should really move to Arkansas, then it will work
Besite this, I completely agree with Leibniz. On the Camino and everwhere there is no reason to hold a person responsible for the traits or deeds of another person or the doing of his government.
Fortunately, in no country have I ever been ridiculed or rejected because I am German.
On my Camino, my friends often laughed about "Michael's German plan". I had a finished plan in my pocket, how I could walk to be in time in Santiago. For me it was completely uninteresting, if I really would run like that, but I'm so happy to plan something and I always had the hope to be prepared for any problem. Typical German?
Even if we don´t want it, we all have little stereotypes in mind when we think of certain countries, and there is often a small rivalry between the neigbours and we joke about each other.
"A German farmer does not eat what he does not know. A French farmer tries first, if you can eat this unknown thing "
On my walks on the Camino, it is the greatest gift for me, to meet pilgrims from all continents and talk to them about God and the world.
I have never experienced so much trust between completely foreign people than on the Camino.
Hopefully it stays that way on the way.
Michael
Americans from Hawaii can use a different trick. The state flag has the Union Jack in the corner.You can always pick the American in France. They are the ones with a Canadian flag freshly sewn onto their backpack.
As am American i’d like to ask about your comment “Americans are lovely nothing like the sterotype” what is the sterotype you speak of?
All i can say is WOW!I sincerely apologise if I have offended. It was not my intention. In fact, the opposite.
There are all sorts of stereotypes of nationalities floating around that are essentially untrue. (Should I really let you know what the rest of the world says about Americans.) The American stereotype is that of "the Ugly American" - the one where supposedly they place unreasonable demands upon local providers of food/accommodation/transport and have no respect for local customs. Of course we Aussies are typified as big drinking bogans. The Germans are stereotyped as reserving all the sun lounges at 5am and the English are typified as whingers who wear socks with their sandals.
Whilst I am sure there are examples of all of the above, my experience is that the vast majority of people are kind, considerate and a pleasure to meet, regardless of their Country of origin.
The only nationality that does not seem to have any negative stereotype is Canadian. Everybody loves the Canadians. I think it is time we changed this. There must be something about them that we can dislike.
Caligal, as noted earlier in this thread, I'm 'from' TX but started travelling away from the USA over 40 yrs ago (yes, I'm getting older, too). If you genuinely want to get an image of the American Overseas Stereotype, have a look at Woody Allen's 'Midnight in Paris,' the dinner in the restaurant with the parents-in-law-to-be, actually all the scenes with them and their daughter. It's a great film in any case, but ouch I recognized so many traits and clichés I've seen and heard all over the world. (Owen Wilson, an actor also 'from' Dallas by the way, ditches his fiancée and ends up with a Parisienne). But, as Michael and the Viscount point out, stereotypes and clichés have no place on the Camino at all. Look at me : a Yank and a naturalized Aussie - I don't drink beer and I'm soft-spoken, usually! Traveling abroad, hearing and speaking other languages, that's the way to disprove stereotypes and build true Community. Buen Camino, y'all!All i can say is WOW!
I really dislike where this thread has gone. Sterotyping has no place on the Camino or anywhere else for that matter. Come on y’all we can do better.Well, I wish I could hear again what I heard on the radio years ago. It was an American comedian regaling us with an hilarious account of crossing the border between Alberta and British Columbia and being pursued by the police. It was priceless!!
Sorry, I think I'm being misunderstood here. There was no stereotyping in what I referred to; just, as I recall, someone telling a very amusing story.I really dislike where this thread has gone. Sterotyping has no place on the Camino or anywhere else for that matter. Come on y’all we can do better.
This reminds me when myself and 2 friends visited a mosque in Mumbai shortly after the First Gulf War started back in 91, we were uncertain if we should say that were from the UK if anyone asked?I depends on the context of the question, who is present, and the level of evident tension... There is an old Japanese proverb that says that "...the nail that sticks up gets hammered down..." I try never to be the nail...
Sometimes, deflection is the better choice... You would have to be present to understand what I mean...
As am American i’d like to ask about your comment “Americans are lovely nothing like the sterotype” what is the sterotype you speak of?
Nationalities. Show me your title deeds, then talk to me...
I need to remember this whenever I feel tempted to claim a nationality. I only have one. Guess what it is...
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