Dan the Man
Active Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Camino Frances, 2015, 2017, 2019
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Dan, what you are suggesting is that peregrinos on the camino should behave better than the average.Hi All:
I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers
1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.
I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground
2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?
Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?
Many times we found this only meters from a town!
As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all
Dan
Hi All:
I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers
1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.
I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground
2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?
Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?
Many times we found this only meters from a town!
As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all
Dan
I for one was not trying to be preachy - i'm honestly very curious as to the similarities and differences between the the pilgrims of yore and present day.As said above, you're preaching to the choir.
Forum members are hopefully well aware by now on the issues, on both raiding the fields and leaving waste. It is usually just thoughtlessness and a need for education. I recently met two very nice women who were strewing toilet paper about because they thought it was degrade able and therefore not a problem. So now I'm taking a few extra ziplock plastic bags with small cotton hankies inside - to hand out.
I'm not sure what medieval pilgrims did - hopefully one of you scholars can tell us. They probably had a greater appreciation of the value of agricultural assets, but they would also have been more dependant on living off the land. As for toileting, I assume they used leaves or whatever was handy. Toilet paper, I think, was not invented until the Crimea War. I remember reading that its introduction had a large beneficial effect on public health.
My folks used the Sears catalogue in the outhouse.
(once the corn cobs were gone)
Toilet paper IS paper (fibre) so yes, save for the additives (coloring, bleaching agent and stuff like that) that may be present in traces (which can perhaps be neglected) you can consider it biodegradable.Wait, wait, some people don't use toilet paper for religious reasons? I want to learn more about that.
Oh, and my memories of what passed for tp in the former USSR, while it still was and after. Either little squares or really shinny paper or something on a roll,that was the equivalent of samd paper. So when I went off to work in Ukraine for a year in 1993 I new my luxury items would include tp, as well as dishwashing soap. Tp only used when, well.... You know, truly needed. I had 5 suitcases of stuff with me; just great on the train from Kiev to where I was living.... Ah, to be young again. But I am getting off topic.
Now, if this is about education, and I believe that for most it is (when did tp become non biodegradable? Just like orange peals?), what about having a little hand out that goes with the credenciales, a little insert of sorts. Posters at the pilgrim office in SJPP, and other main albergues where many stay? We raised money for mattreses at St-Anton, why not for this. And since Ivar sits at home all day twiddling his thumbs, , perhpas he could advise on relevancy, cost for an insert in compostelas, etc. is there any value in this proposition? Until we find patrons to do what Sra Teresa has done on the Primitivo by building a loo on her property for us...
@Kanga said it's not. Kanga, did you mean ot becoase of additives amd bleach? If we birng "green tp" would it be different?Toilet paper IS paper (fibre) so yes, save for the additives (coloring, bleaching agent and stuff like that) that may be present in traces (which can perhaps be neglected) you can consider it biodegradable.
Remember my forum name and it's origin... !@Kanga said it's not.
thought it was degradeable and therefore not a problem.
@C clearly, you beat me to it!Remember my forum name and it's origin... !........
Kanga's dispute is probably with the fact that they thought it was not a problem because it is biodegradable. It IS biodegradable (and Kanga never said otherwise), but it is still a problem because of its quantity, asethetics and and general unpleasantness.
When I was a kid old newspaper and moss were the order of the day in the outside "throne room".My folks used the Sears catalogue in the outhouse.
(once the corn cobs were gone)
I keep myself out of this TP-on-the-camino discussion, as the topic concerns almost exclusively women
That's not what I said, dear Rebekah....I just don't feel qualified!... and everyone knows women's concerns are not worth bothering with.
So, you always get to a toilet in time?I keep myself out of this TP-on-the-camino discussion, as the topic concerns almost exclusively women
After changing one's own behavior, is it then time to simply look the other way while hiking? I cannot imagine walking in a froth about a bit of tissue paper!
Maybe Pano is not getting enough fiber in his diet or probioticsSo, you always get to a toilet in time?
You don't do number 2's?
You don't - WIPE?!
Maybe Pano is not getting enough fiber in his diet or probiotics
Well, you need not to worry, I enjoy a healthy bowel movement and I always carry ample supply of these small bags, you know, the ones dog-owners use.....So, you always get to a toilet in time?
You don't do number 2's?
You don't - WIPE?!
Even in a dozen languages, it is not likely to have an impact. People know etiquette. I think it would work only in that ideal fantasy world!when a person bought a pilgrim's passport, he/she would receive a list of pilgrim etiquette guidelines as well as safety guidelines,
Romans often used a sponge on a stick.[/QUOTE]What Were Other Countries Using?
Unfortunately common sense is not that common . . .Hi All:
I am LOVING my Camino but I have run across a few things that I and others have found a tad "disrespectful " to other pilgrims and local farmers
1) plucking grapes from the vine from Pamplona to Burgos: We have seen many many pilgrims stop and not just taste grapes but load up plastic bags and walk or cycle off. I saw at least 30 people doing this. A few farmers were telling us how mad they were as their crops are their business and Pilgrims just raid their crops.
I have seen pilgrims pick a whole bunch, taste them and throw the bunch to the ground
2) Using Camino Paths as a toilette
I cannot count the number of times feces from humans along with toilette paper has been found directly on the Camino path? Why not use a bush?
Also at rest stations, can people not walk off the path and urinate instead of doing it where benches are and then scatter toilette paper about?
Many times we found this only meters from a town!
As pilgrims we enjoy so much that Spain offers . A tad of respect would be appreciated by all
Dan
Great news on the bowels and doggy bags are a really good idea, assuming that they're black as they are here to keep the contents discreetly concealed. Cultures deal with these age old problems differently. Wonder what the ladies did centuries before tp... most pilgrims were tree sprinklers back then I guess. What about the new visitors - is Europe littered with tp from the Med to Berlin?Well, you need not to worry, I enjoy a healthy bowel movement and I always carry ample supply of these small bags, you know, the ones dog-owners use.....
Pano, I think you just stepped into a stinking pile of ..it.Well, you need not to worry, I enjoy a healthy bowel movement and I always carry ample supply of these small bags, you know, the ones dog-owners use.....
As "hinting" at the REAL problem does not seem to get through, I am provoked to spell it out clearly now: TP and tissues so generously left along the camino is essentially a women problem. I know, I know....I'll be tarred, feathered and shot now that I have spelled it out, but I dare to do so anyway. We discussed the subject a few times on the way and the women in the group all agreed. Men go to a tree and take a leak; women squat and .....use tissue. Now that I've said it, I will take cover and wait a few weeks before logging-in to this forum again.Perhaps some kind soul will PM to let me know when its safe to log-in again.
As a woman I agree it is the women who leave all the tissues on the ground along the way and yes it is disgusting to see and must really annoy the local people.now, everyone has to pee and that's that but why don't women use the same tissue over and over again. For heavens sake it's only pee not a toxic substance. I take about 12inches of toilet paper with me in the morning and use it for the day. It's not like it needs to be wrung out or anything after a pee and believe me I can pee for the world! I have never yet left a tissue on the way .also if women feel they can't use the same tissue again then why don't they take the used one with them and dispose of it in the cafe toilets when stopping for a coffee. It's not right that locals or volunteers should be cleaning up after us women.Even in a dozen languages, it is not likely to have an impact. People know etiquette. I think it would work only in that ideal fantasy world!Still, I will sign onto your effort.
Quite the opposite is the case, it seems to me. Pano does address the issue. All this talk about shovels and Romans and doggy bags and the Pack it in Pack it out slogan (which I associate mainly with "outdoors" in the United States) ... I doubt that you will make all these "Sunday" walkers - the overwhelming majority of camino pilgrims are not hardcore outdoor types - adopt such methods.Pano, I think you just stepped into ...
About 40 years ago, on our honeymoon, we saw a bidet for the first time, in a new hotel in Singapore. It was button operated. Standing well back, we pressed the button. A geyser erupted and bored a hole through the ceiling. I hope to this day some poor European didn't trustingly sit on it. Especially on their honeymoon.the European answer: Bidets. They're not just for laundry and foot-soaking.
Maybe she did not think that the bar owner was maintaining the restroom for the non-patron pilgrims?I was flabbergasted that she had not called into the bar to relieve herself
What did you find so unbelievable: that a person would do this or that a woman would do this?I was incredulous
Quite the opposite is the case, it seems to me. Pano does address the issue. All this talk about shovels and Romans and doggy bags and the Pack it in Pack it out slogan (which I associate mainly with "outdoors" in the United States) ... I doubt that you will make all these "Sunday" walkers - the overwhelming majority of camino pilgrims are not hardcore outdoor types - adopt such methods.
But I do think that the "women's" problem, i.e. using toilet paper to wipe away urine, could be addressed by better information. I don't think the guidebooks - mainly written by men - do even mention the issue, I certainly don't remember having read anything about it and I have built up an impressive collection of guidebooks for St James/St Jacques roads over the years. It had not occurred to me that wet urine-soaked paper is a main cause for this disgusting mess.
I hasten to add that I am the proud owner of "How to Shit in the Woods" and that I have trekked in arid areas at high altitude so I am quite aware of how to deal with the "bigger" problem. Most people on the caminos aren't and it does not seem to occur to them that THEY are the problem - not as an individual but because they are part of such masses of people sharing the same space (and most of it is owned by someone else).
I am not a scholar but I would also be interested to know. ... Taking fruit from farmed land is theft. It is theft today and it was theft then. Perhaps people used to be more aware of this and more afraid of punishment?I'm not sure what medieval pilgrims did - hopefully one of you scholars can tell us. They probably had a greater appreciation of the value of agricultural assets, but they would also have been more dependant on living off the land.
I was waiting for someone to come up with this! (The use of corn cobs for this purpose is new to me tho'.)
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