Pyrenees Vs Knees Hehe

DeniseT · Apr 5, 2017

hi all again......
So here's the deal am I crazy is there alternative

7 wks to I leave, I have been working on building klms and body somewhat prepared. I have disc issues in the back not terrible but enough to have nerve block prior to leaving and additional my two knees have started to track badly, even with a careful managed plan with physio and drs. Last 2 wks just chilling and recovering, today specialist appt yep tracking badly and knees need to be strapped, cortisone went in also today. Loads of physio.
Now Pyrenees, it's my goal to do the high track, and thinking hitching a ride down , so I don't have flare up, luckily I have 40 days to walk in.
My question - can I hitch down , should this be preplanned.
Bueno Camino

Robo · Apr 5, 2017

You can certainly hitch up. Not sure about down. You are basically on a track on a mountain side.

Maybe email Caroline at Express Bourricot and ask. http://www.expressbourricot.com/persons-transport/
You would need to arrange a clear pick up point and time. The logical place would be where the trail divides, straight on to go down through the woods and right onto the road. (Col de Lepoeder) The only downside is estimating when you will get there and potentially sitting to wait.

Maybe another member has a taxi number for the Roncesvalles / Burguete area? That would only be a 10-15 drive away. You could pre-book and call as you get close to the pick up point....

Pat Beals · Apr 5, 2017

I am assuming you will also have expressbourricot also transport your pack?

Another suggestion, break the trip up over the Pyrenees into more than one or two days. I don't know if that will work, but I am trying this idea in the fall with three nights in St Jean.

Maialen at Express Bourricot has been very kind in booking what I want, but also being open to the idea that I may do better than I expect.

jstorybook · Apr 5, 2017

DeniseT said:
hi all again......
So here's the deal am I crazy is there alternative

7 wks to I leave, I have been working on building klms and body somewhat prepared. I have disc issues in the back not terrible but enough to have nerve block prior to leaving and additional my two knees have started to track badly, even with a careful managed plan with physio and drs. Last 2 wks just chilling and recovering, today specialist appt yep tracking badly and knees need to be strapped, cortisone went in also today. Loads of physio.
Now Pyrenees, it's my goal to do the high track, and thinking hitching a ride down , so I don't have flare up, luckily I have 40 days to walk in.
My question - can I hitch down , should this be preplanned.
Bueno Camino

I never noticed any cars up there doing am not certain that you can count on hitching a ride and the down side into Spain is very steep. I had not had knee trouble for 30 years until I walked down the Pyrenees's!

basquelady · Apr 5, 2017

DeniseT said:
hi all again......
So here's the deal am I crazy is there alternative

7 wks to I leave, I have been working on building klms and body somewhat prepared. I have disc issues in the back not terrible but enough to have nerve block prior to leaving and additional my two knees have started to track badly, even with a careful managed plan with physio and drs. Last 2 wks just chilling and recovering, today specialist appt yep tracking badly and knees need to be strapped, cortisone went in also today. Loads of physio.
Now Pyrenees, it's my goal to do the high track, and thinking hitching a ride down , so I don't have flare up, luckily I have 40 days to walk in.
My question - can I hitch down , should this be preplanned.
Bueno Camino

I have a similar knee problem and recommend you look at this knee brace; discuss with physio but works well for me:
http://www.vivomed.com/en/gb/Push-Braces-med-Knee-Brace/m-7912.aspx

Felipe · Apr 5, 2017

Down to Roncesvalles? I just recommend you avoid the steep and slippery forest trail after Lepoeder, and go by the much easier paved road, by Ibañeta. It is indicated in the signpost at Lepoeder as "Camino Suave".
You will see the paved road, it is quite evident.
It will be much more satisfying than a taxi.
And use poles, definitely.
Felipe (another pilgrim with a woobly knee)

Mark Lee · Apr 5, 2017

skip it and just start in Roncesvalles....
why risk tearing yourself up if you have knee and back issues?
I strained my previously injured (old injury) ACL on my last CF about one week into it....that really, really sucked. I remember later in Leon while walking to get something to eat, the damn thing locked up on me. I had to sit down and stretch it out for about 15 minutes. Thank God for inexpensive trekking poles.
ultreia

Glenn Rowe · Apr 5, 2017

I haven't yet walked the CF, but have walked a lot in other places, including some rather significant ups-and-downs. Like Mark, I have old injuries (lateral meniscus on both knees, L3/L4 and L5/S1 herniated discs, wonky ankle). Given what you've written, I also think it would be a really good idea for you to skip the Pyrenees and begin in Roncesvalles.

After all, there's a heap of difference between brave, proud & determined, and being "a dang fool". Not saying you are, of course; I just needed something to complete the example.

Kiwi-family · Apr 5, 2017

I am not a quitter and not one to avoid hard things.....but I put in one more vote for Roncesvalles being a prudent starting point for your circumstances.

C clearly · Apr 5, 2017

It doesn't seem like a great plan to me. Better to keep things simple. There is nothing so unique about the Napoleon route that you should risk your knees or make complicated arrangements.

notion900 · Apr 6, 2017

Kiwi-family said:
I am not a quitter and not one to avoid hard things.....but I put in one more vote for Roncesvalles being a prudent starting point for your circumstances.

I agree. Spanish people start there, and who are we to argue with them!

JulieandPeter · Apr 6, 2017

Make sure you keep your phone off and charged (ours died at the top). We did not see any vehicles between Orisson and Roncesvalles. We ended up on the steep trail down because it was foggy and there was a lot of snow on the ground in April, and we completely missed any sign of an alternate route. It was extremely painful, but also spectacular and I remember mostly feeling filled with joy and pain and joy . . . . In other words, if you think you are going to need a ride down, yes, pre-plan. We are starting from Viana in 8 weeks, so our paths will probably cross. Buen Camino.

Pat Beals · Apr 6, 2017

You will laugh. I was worried about the stress on my knees, so I bought some expensive knee braces (they also were a weight concern), going down into Roncesvalles, I noticed the both had a "L" logo on them. Thinking I had bought two left knee braces, I wore one upside down for the whole Camino anytime I did a big decline.

After The Camino, I loaned my knee braces to one of my sisters for a hut to hut hike in New Zealand. She gave one away to someone who had hurt his knee and she wanted to replace it for me. On purchasing the replacement, we realized the "L" was for large. Not for left. I walked the whole Camino with one upside down knee brace!

Too funny! Life is good.

DeniseT · Apr 6, 2017

Many smart answers I know, I guess I just need to get into the smart head space, my training up hills being going so well and so strong but descents let me down. I have lost weight and much stronger to get over Pyrenees but still I struggle and still struggling with the possibility my 18mth plan to start SJPDP could be slipping away. Slightly deflated having to contemplate this.
Thankyou for your support

Glenn Rowe · Apr 6, 2017

DeniseT said:
Many smart answers I know, I guess I just need to get into the smart head space, my training up hills being going so well and so strong but descents let me down. I have lost weight and much stronger to get over Pyrenees but still I struggle and still struggling with the possibility my 18mth plan to start SJPDP could be slipping away. Slightly deflated having to contemplate this.
Thankyou for your support

Only you, DeniseT, can make the decision. Just remember that, as I mentioned in an earlier post, "... there's a heap of difference between brave, proud & determined, and being 'a dang fool'."

[Just gotta say that your words "but descents let me down" form a good but probably-unintentional pun! ]

JulieandPeter · Apr 6, 2017

I'm sorry you are feeling deflated; that is the problem with reading too much before one gets there. Having said that, a few more suggestions:
1) Walk up to Orisson, spend the night, then get a ride to Roncesvalles. It is a spectacular, beautiful, challenging (all up hill) walk and you will definitely have the experience of walking over the mountain. However, then you can avoid the downhill and possibly making your injury worse.
2) Start at Roncesvalles, walk to Santiago. This will be an awesome, life-changing, body and mind strengthening experience. Then if you still feel the need to walk from SJPDP to Roncesvalles, go back and do it at the end.
3) Try not to over think it. You could just go, walk up there, make a decision at Orrison to arrange a ride or not. You will know from the uphill at that point whether or not you can handle the downhill.
4) No matter what, it is going to be okay. Things tend to work out on the Camino.

DeniseT · Apr 6, 2017

JulieandPeter said:
I'm sorry you are feeling deflated; that is the problem with reading too much before one gets there. Having said that, a few more suggestions:
1) Walk up to Orisson, spend the night, then get a ride to Roncesvalles. It is a spectacular, beautiful, challenging (all up hill) walk and you will definitely have the experience of walking over the mountain. However, then you can avoid the downhill and possibly making your injury worse.
2) Start at Roncesvalles, walk to Santiago. This will be an awesome, life-changing, body and mind strengthening experience. Then if you still feel the need to walk from SJPDP to Roncesvalles, go back and do it at the end.
3) Try not to over think it. You could just go, walk up there, make a decision at Orrison to arrange a ride or not. You will know from the uphill at that point whether or not you can handle the downhill.
4) No matter what, it is going to be okay. Things tend to work out on the Camino.

I have read and appreciated some great and supportive comments. Make sense and listen to.
However yours radiated and I guess just what examples you mentioned are at the back my mind, you brought them closer.
Cause I am a first timer, you can see the routes and the steepness on paper and see some photos but not until you hear about it first hand or on it can you make the call.
But like what I have read much of I will listen to my body ( knees really) and assess reality start of each day.
Which I am starting to be at peace with and just have to accept.
I don't feel panicked or stressed, I just like plan a little and Now options so I am more informed and make a better call when the times comes.
My goal is to finish and to walk in, weather I have to send my back pack ahead some days so be it. I have 40 days but additional 12 days if needed.
I just have to walk my Camino but follow through on what I say.( hardest)
Going with friends who are fit and strong I always new I would be the walking in there shadow ( lol, hehe)
It has been a huge journey last 12 mths just to get to SJPDP for me,so feeling somewhat ready and prepared with some good ammunition.
Thankyou again

DeniseT · Apr 6, 2017

Glenn Rowe said:
Only you, DeniseT, can make the decision. Just remember that, as I mentioned in an earlier post, "... there's a heap of difference between brave, proud & determined, and being 'a dang fool'."

[Just gotta say that your words "but descents let me down" form a good but probably-unintentional pun! ]

Oh god, you got that right , I think I am were I am right now cause being that " dang fool"
Reality checks !!!! What's important and what's right are two very different things. Much appreciate your honest and supportive comments.

Glenn Rowe · Apr 6, 2017

DeniseT said:
What's important and what's right are two very different things. Much appreciate your honest and supportive comments.

You know this already, Lovely Lady, but if any of us can be of assistance, you only gotta say so.

DeniseT · Apr 6, 2017

Kathar1na said:
Lots of comments but few, I think, have addressed this idea:

Hitching a ride with whom? While there were lots of cars on the road up to the vicinity of the pass on the French side when I was there, I did not notice any on the Spanish side. Is there much motor traffic on this road? I see in Google Street view that the road surface does not seem to be in good shape and there is a 40 km/h speed limit sign at the beginning of the road near Ibaneta. Maybe the Spanish taxi drivers from Burguete or further along are missing out on a business opportunity and in the near future walkers can buy a combo package so that they only have to walk the short stretch from Croix Thibault to Collado de Lepoeder ... ...

Thankyou for your insight, and reply. I am a first timer so actually not walked it which means I don't know if there are sections coming down which were suitable for cars, horses, donkeys hence my question and alternatives IF requiring. I thought this was a good question to give me more of an insight so I can make better choices for my ailments and not push to much to soon for a successful and fulfilling experience.
Thankyou again your answer taken on board and little better understanding of conditions.

DeniseT · Apr 6, 2017

Glenn Rowe said:
You know this already, Lovely Lady, but if any of us can be of assistance, you only gotta say so.

Miss K. · Apr 8, 2017

DeniseT said:
hi all again......
So here's the deal am I crazy is there alternative

7 wks to I leave, I have been working on building klms and body somewhat prepared. I have disc issues in the back not terrible but enough to have nerve block prior to leaving and additional my two knees have started to track badly, even with a careful managed plan with physio and drs. Last 2 wks just chilling and recovering, today specialist appt yep tracking badly and knees need to be strapped, cortisone went in also today. Loads of physio.
Now Pyrenees, it's my goal to do the high track, and thinking hitching a ride down , so I don't have flare up, luckily I have 40 days to walk in.
My question - can I hitch down , should this be preplanned.
Bueno Camino

Hi Denise,

I walked from SJPdP last year and due to the weather had to take the Valcarlos route.

In retrospect, this probably saved me from wrecking my knees on the first day. I did have some problems later on (starting when going down from Alto de Perdon), so if you know you are prone to knee problems, I also wouldn't risk taking the high route.

If you're really set on starting in St. Jean, maybe do consider walking via Valcarlos? It's a beautiful stretch, I found the first half to be quite easy going (gentle ups and downs mostly), The second half is uphill mostly (this was no problem for me knee-wise) so you'll need some stamina for this part, but the descent to Roncesvalles was doable. You could also spend the night in Valcarlos to make sure you don't over exert the knees - maybe this could be a compromise?

Keep in mind though that the next section to Zubiri also has a few ascents and descents that need some attention. Considering this, starting in Roncesvalles probably is a smart option.

By the way, I also have back problems due to skoliosis in my lower back regularly - no issues whatsoever on the Camino though. The backpack and especially the support of the hip belt helped my back immensely - who would have thought!

Whatever you decide to do, Buen Camino and have fun!

DeniseT · Apr 10, 2017

Great words thankyou, I have been surprised in this journey so far how well my back is doing, yes I think that hip belt support been great ...
Bueno Camino

DeniseT · Apr 10, 2017

Kathar1na said:
I sense that you have set your heart on the higher pass route, come what may (or nearly) . I've been on the higher pass route twice and drove along the lower pass route. Both are pretty scenery. As mountains go, the higher route is nothing to write home about. I would not fly around the world to walk it.

I remember the Valcarlos route as very pretty, through a partly wide and partly narrow valley, very wooded in parts. I don't remember being able to see the higher peaks of the Pyrennees to the East.

We had reasonably good weather to be able to see something on the higher route. Why people walk this in fog or rain is beyond me. At Orisson, you have nice views over the green hills at the foot of the Pyreenes. At the place called the Virgin (there's a statue of Mary), you can spot the snow covered peaks of higher mountains in the distance. There's a parking area for cars. When you are higher up, you can't see them anymore (according to my recollection) as you walk between slightly higher mountain tops hiding distant views.

You walk along a road that connects SJPP with other villages further along until you reach a place called Croix Thibault. Then it's wide footpaths until the Lepoeder pass. Then you shadow another road towards Ibaneta. This road leads from Ibaneta to nowhere. Finally, you shadow the main road to Roncesvalles.

The Ways of St James have no trailhead. They start neither in SJPP nor in Roncesvalles.

SJPP has gained enormous popularity in recent years as a starting point for going to Santiago. I still feel that it is weird to start such a long trail before a mountain range instead of behind it. Seen its history, Roncesvalles would appear to be a more meaningful start.

You can reach Orisson and The Virgin easily by car or taxi. There is a daily shuttle for walkers (book with Express Bouricot) that drops off people at Orisson, Virgin and Croix Thibault in the morning, with pickups (back to SJPP) in the early afternoon. To my knowledge, nothing of this sort on the other side. Motorized traffic from SJPP to Roncesvalles always has to pass along the Valcarlos road.

Brillant info, thinking the lower route is my calling.
Thankyou thankyou

DeniseT · Apr 10, 2017

Do I get onto the lower route at Orrisson????

mspath · Apr 11, 2017

DeniseT said:
Do I get onto the lower route at Orrisson????

DeniseT,

No you do not get on the lower Valcarlos route at Orisson but in SJPdP.

The Pilgrim Office in SJPdP will give you a schematic map showing both routes; here is a copy of the map .

Within SJPdP both caminos follow the rue de La Citadelle which becomes the rue d' Espagne after crossing the river and then the rue de Saint-Michel which will start to climb. At the first Y junction the marker for the Valcarlos route turns right to follow along the Chemin de Mayorga and the marker for the Napoleon goes left.

For further current info on both routes see --
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/valcarlos-or-roncesvalles.46552/

Good luck and Buen camino!

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