Pilgrim in training
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- (May 2015)
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@SYates and @piogaw - The Canberra Friends has helped a number of pilgrims prepare for their camino. The group's founders all walked without using a tour operator, as did those who have returned over the past 12 months. They will be able to explain how it can be done without such assistance. But if @Pilgrim in training wants to use a tour operator, that is very much her choice. I think I can safely say she will be given their support whatever she decides.
The diversity of the forum is certainly evident by the mix of comments and opinions. Thank you to everyone for your contributions, opinions, ideas and support.
I thought I had listed the main reasons in my previous comments Kathy. Some of the reasons are listed below but the main one is because I want to, I can afford to and there is certainly a market for my requirements. I believe that if I put my trust in someone else to assist me, I will be able to use my preparation time and my time on The Camino to relax into and enjoy the adventure even more.
I know a lady in Canberra who walked the Camino three times the first time on her own (The French Way), the second time with her daughter (Via de la Plata or The Silver Way from Seville) and the most recent time with her son (The Northern Way). She said that it didn't matter whether you went fully guided, self guided with back up support or the more traditional way of staying in albergues it would be the most amazing trip of a lifetime. If she doesn't walk with her son in 2016, she will walk with me in 2015 and welcomes the opportunity to have a slightly different experience supported by a tour operator, self guided but with more private (and yes more expensive) booked accommodation.
The benefits of a tour company (and as acknowledged, it's my personal choice) are that a tour operator:
1. Offers 24 x 7 back up support (reassuring me and especially my family at home) of my safety - having said that nothing in life is guaranteed
2. Allows me to be involved with some (but not all) aspects of the planning. I am an organiser by nature and this is my holiday and my journey - part of that means I pass this on to someone else to do for me for a changeLetting go and putting trust in someone else is very much a part of my journey
3. I want to document my journey and bring along a tripod and camera and additional lenses - this means I would prefer to get my bags ported and carry my photography gear during the day. This may sound a bit weak to some but for me it gives me greater flexibility to pursue my love of photography if I don't have lug around everything else at the same time. I can soak up the vista - think about how best to capture it through my lense and not have to rely on others to put me in the frame.
4. At the end of an exhilarating day of walking and photographing, I will have no worries about finding a place to stay. I know what my walking goal is each morning and have no concerns about having to stand in lines or waiting patiently to see if there is a bed for me and if not walking on to another village.
5. I am not interested in walking in the dark. I do that here in the winter with my dog. I don't mind it so much around my suburb but wouldn't like it in Spain.
6. In the evenings I want to socialise or sometimes not socialise, I want to write my blog (or sort my photos) or speak to my family or simply have a really big, quiet, undisturbed sleep! This is not necessarily possible in shared hostel type-accommodation which is not everyone's idea of rest.
While it might not suit others, the choice a tour operator offers me has it's appeal. I disagree that having my accommodation arranged limits socialising and spontaneity. But I respect your perspective on the matter SYates. It may be a bit tricky but there are cabs, there are central meeting points we don't have to stay in the same location to remain connected. It sounds like you may be suggesting that those who choose to travel The Camino with the support of a tour operator are those who are "disabled / handicapped and / or need a lot of assistance for other reasons". I honestly hadn't considered that I may be judged on that when I posted my question. Whether I do or don't have a disability is irrelevant to the conversation.
I certainly don't judge others for their choices and perhaps I will try an alternative (more authentic) Camino experience when I walk with my son, we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
Buen Camino
I am sure some people will see this as a good reason to use a tour operator that brings your baggage forward to your booked accommodation and makes sure it isn't just left at an albergue where you are not even sure that you will get a bed.Other threads are suggesting that robbery targeting backpacks in albergues is on the rise. Keep in mind that forwarded baggage generally comes with no security. Backpacks gather at the originating albergue in a big, unattended pile with an envelope with payment. They are distributed to receiving locations where there also is no security.
The alternatives are no more or less authentic. It appears that the majority of forum members have a preference for carrying their own packs, and have plenty of advice on that score. But this does not mean using pack taxi, catching a bus or anything else are any less authentic. For walking pilgrims, there is a simple test for receiving your compestalla at Santiago Cathedral - did you walk the last 100km? Do you have a credencial that shows us that?I certainly don't judge others for their choices and perhaps I will try an alternative (more authentic) Camino experience when I walk with my son, we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
Hello fellow Pilgrims -I have been reading posts on this forum for the last 9 months and have learnt a lot, thank you for sharing your insights and ideas I have found it extremely useful. I have 19 months to go until I walk the Camino (French Way) in May 2015 and I think about it every day especially when I am out walking. I have set up a special savings plan and am very close to selecting a specialist travel company to assist me. I had hoped to walk with two friends but will most likely be heading off by myself. (Although I know you are never alone on the Camino). I have narrowed them down to four possibilities and seriously they all look fantastic. Does anyone have any tips on what I should look for to help me make that final selection? My Camino starts in Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory.
Thomas 1962, Whariwharangi and MendiWalker -I acknowledge and respect your questions. I did seriously consider looking at the itineraries on offer and book my own journey, however I am not walking in a group, it will be self guided and the operator is sourcing and guaranteeing my accommodation and porting my bag. I want to document my journey (mostly photography) and enjoy the walk and know that paying someone to do that ground work, port my bag and 24hour back up will assist me greatly. The support systems in place not only provide me with reassurance, but my family. I will guide my own way, meet my own friends and order my own dinner and will love every bit of those aspects. But don't despair I am already seriously considering my next trip! When I retire (or go into pre-retirement mode), I will have more time and plan less. My son suggested he walk with me on the next Camino, and we can decide at the end of the day where we want to rest and for how long we want to stay and explore. I love the fact that he has an adventurous spirit (in November he will be travelling at SE Asia, trekking, sight seeing and volunteering in an orphanage for 4weeks) at 16 I am so pleased he wants to join me on the Camino in a few (3-4) years time.
Thank you Doug, I have noted down the next meeting and will try and make it
I would go to the meeting my girl from the ACT and pick their brains . They will allow you too but i would keep all my opinions private in doing this...........why ask if we have already chosen the method of walking.
Listen to everything they say, especially the ones who have completed MANY camino's.
And later on ask them their thoughts on your method
We took the Brierley book in 07/08 and never again....we learnt the hard way.
We have never had a blister after that first year and we have never worried about accommodation .
We also have learnt that the little villages/ smaller albergues are great places to stay.......just like the Paradores.
Our 66 year old frames just love the slow/steady walk .
We plan the first few days [ 4 ] and then let the way take care of itself.
*****We have found the best parties are never planned
You can pick the stops or let your organiser but what happens if you get the rain which Spain got this **June/July???? I mention these months because you are still 9 months away from walking.
In 2008 we were drenched for the first week in early **May and the only way from St JPDP was via Valcarlos as the top was under rain or mist....not many photo opportunities.
What happens if you find great company on the walk and they are staying in different towns/villages/hamlets??
What happens if you discover you like a town,Burgos for example yet you have the following days booked ?
We always enjoy an extra day there because the walk into that place and Leon drives us mad.
Whatever you choose you will be ok........ but we learnt in 08 why you never plan ahead.
Walked into Santiago with a lovely American who financed some mines in WA.
After we talked over dinner and at different coffee stops over the final 40km's we came away thinking the US was in a big mess and therefore the rest of the world.
He explained about their banks and why he and his mates had sold up and moved their families in 07 to Sth America.
We had just sold our pubs on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts and the money from them was in so called Blue Blood Stocks
On our return we sold these Blue Blood's and put the $$ in term deposits.
One year later P.I training we purchased these back at 1/2 the cost and a few more as well.
** Thats one of the reasons why we walk the camino..... a little thank you to St Jimmy for allowing us to meet Andrew.
In relation to Falcons advice ....i would listen ....he has been around the traps mate.
Hi Pilgrim in Training and Paladycamino, I can totally appreciate wanting to either use support (just baggage and lodging) or walking in an organized group. I am also trying to make this decision. So far Fresco Tours, Marly Camino and Adiante Tours look good. I have also discussed doing self-guided with just accommodations and baggage handling (my first instinct) with a UK based operator, Frontier Holidays. I plan to walk from O'Cebreiro to Santiago, and then take a couple of days in Barcelona.
When I was in my mid twenties and stationed in Europe as an Army officer, I would have readily taken 30 days of leave, carried everything on my back and stayed in refugios. I regularly stayed in hostels back then and traveled by the seat of my pants. At the time, it was great, because it was just me and other singles. I have traveled independently in Europe since then as well, with my family, by myself, and in a small group of seven people.
Since then, my situation has changed. I am a healthy and fit 60-year old woman, who will have limited time in Spain. Even taking two weeks will be stretching it. I have a husband who is not at all interested in this type of activity (and will stay back in the US), but supports my desire to do this. He and my adult daughters are also very concerned for my safety and security, so the idea of being able to call someone if I twist an ankle on a mountain path appeals to us. When I leave for Spain in September, I will also be leaving behind my oldest and her husband, who are now expecting twin boys in May. In other words, I have to consider others. This is the main issue. It's not just me anymore!
While I don't have to stay in fancy hotels or paradores (B&Bs and casas rurales are preferred), I would like to finish my daily trek in a clean room with my own shower. I have no interest in wearing a flea mask and listening to possibly scores of other folks snoring. I also figure it this way--- I'm freeing up a bed that another pilgrim will need for the night. I will still get sore feet, walk in the rain, and share the other usual issues with other pilgrims. I also will be more able to concentrate on the spiritual and cultural aspects of The Way if I walk and rest comfortably while on it.
200,000 odd people walk the camino each year , i believe no more than 200 would use a tour company for the complete 900km.....thats .01 of a percent..
Over the last 1,000 years, there have been many ways of completing the pilgrimage. In the last three decades the route has been rediscovered and waymarked, leading to over 200,000 pilgrims getting compostelas last year. The tour operator is a new level of commercialism, and I think most of those who write against using one, do so because they have found that it is not necessary, or represents a crass commercialism that is invading the experience. It does not imply that someone's pilgrimage lacks legitimacy, but is more along the lines of encouraging the traditional way, which did not involve travel agents.It has the side effect of making them feel like they will be viewed as "unusual", "unique", "weird", etc.
If that were true then, coincidentally, I must have encountered most of those 200 in Sept/October 2013 along the approximate 800k Frances that were walking alongside me at some point, staying in the same accommodations, eating at the same restaurants, and having the same wonderful experience as I was.
I guarantee that far more than 200 use a tour company for this route per year. Maybe 200 at any given time?
I noticed that you put "the complete 900km" so, technically, you may be correct as I'm not sure where your 900k start and finish points are.
There is a lot of energy put into trying to convince folks not to use the tour operators. It has the side effect of making them feel like they will be viewed as "unusual", "unique", "weird", etc.
I know this is not necessarily the intent by those who insist on trying to change the minds of people who, in some cases, have already stated they have made the decision, for good reason. It may come across differently though. Especially when inaccurate stats are thrown out there as attempted reinforcement of an argument.
Hi Pilgrim in Training, I am also looking at tour companies for my pilgrim which will be September/October 2014. My reason for considering using a tour company is that I have already walked long distance tracks solo carrying everything including food for 8-10 days. My pack weighed around 16kg including water and food for the coming 10 days. The track was the Bibbulmun track in Western Australia and is close to 1000km. I have experienced roughing it, sleeping in open huts with other people of all types and wading through swamps with water up to the middle of my thighes. I have cycled (again solo) 2000km from Barcelona up over the Pyrenees and up through France along the canals camping and staying in dilapidated country hotels along the way. I enjoyed it and am so pleased I did both of these adventures, however, I am now ready for a bit of comfort and luxury that a tour company can provide. I am keen to find out which tour operator you have settled for.
Back on the forum and fingers crossed I won’t be “bumped out” today! This post is in response to the question from OzViking about which tour provider I settled on for my Camino experience in May-June 2015.
Based on my own needs and budget and I came to the conclusion that the best option for me was to use a tour provider (and I figure you have already read through the conversation so I won’t go back over it). I originally found around 10 providers and eliminated some of those because they:
A) Were too expensive
B) Didn’t offer the full French Way
C) Appeared to cater for groups and not individuals or
D) Focused less on the walking and more on high-end accommodation and exquisite gourmet food (which sounded lovely but not for me)
E) Included lots of additional side trips
As mentioned, I wanted a supported (self-guided) tour and don’t necessarily need to travel with the same group all the way either. Not to say I won’t enjoy joining groups but I can also exercise flexibility.
I listened to and enjoyed some old Rick Steves podcasts I found in iTunes (he loves Spain) and I found a Spanish provider who sounded perfect. But because my trip was 18 months away he was reluctant to give me an estimate and was also too busy at the time. When it got closer, I reminded him, however he didn’t follow up (so unfortunately that provider missed out). Most of the providers had a strong connection to Spain and a sincere appreciation of walking (and while they are selling a product,) the ones with careful marketing that reached out and appealed to my own values were the ones that got into the next round so to speak.
I got the list down to four final contenders listed below:
1. Follow the Camino
2. Macs Adventures
3. Camino Ways
4. Frontier Holidays
Based on the criteria of what I deemed important, I then assessed each of the four providers on
1. Cost
2. Website
3. Responsiveness to follow up questions
4. Testimonials
5. Itinerary and
6. Free Wifi (not essential but as I will be writing a blog it was somewhat important to me)
To be honest I assigned a value against each of the criteria and scored each of them on a rating of 1-10. A bit like someone would conduct a tender evaluation. On many aspects the ratings were the same score for all four providers and there wasn’t much between first and last – 4 points in fact. The costs were assessed on an average daily rate over the full period and they were very similar and competitive. Yes, I probably could have done it myself but I want to enjoy my walking and not spend hours researching and booking travel before I leave or while I am in Spain. As I mentioned previously, I find it refreshing to hand over the organising to someone else because most of my life so far has been about organising others.
Interestingly, out of these four providers two where based in Dublin and the other two were based in Glasgow. (However many have offices around the globe). I have since discovered there are more providers in the US but my “search-engine” didn’t push me in that direction.
I settled on Follow the Camino – the very first website I stumbled across when the idea of walking the Camino first popped into my head back in December 2012. I considered my options for around 13 months and paid my deposit only a few weeks ago. “The proof of the pudding will be in the pot” as they say but this is what I came up with and I am happy with my decision and equally happy to share with other interested folk like yourself.
I continue to enjoy my preparation (which is now placing the organising in the capable hands of a third party) and to continue with my own local walking adventures. I will also be researching equipment and developing my photographic and writing / blogging skills so I can share my adventures with my support crew at home. In October I am going to walk The Six Foot Track, in the Blue Mountains (not nearly as long as your amazing Bibbulmun track but something I am looking forward to) In the meantime I continue to discover and rediscover many beautiful walks here in the Australian Capital Territory. I am dreaming also of my next Camino in 2018 (with my son) and we are talking about the Northern Way.
Life is such an adventure and I have learnt many things from the forum. It was perhaps naïve of me, but I didn’t anticipate there would be so many people questioning why I would want to choose a tour provider – and so few comments about how to choose a good one and ones to watch out for. I did however get some very comforting personal messages in my in-box and an invitation to join a local group who are really lovely. I will continue to learn a great deal from them. I work full time, have a very active young son in his final years of school. I will take up more part time study this year and enjoy my own very busy social and active life with my partner. The fact I have handed a small part of my Camino experience over to tour provider does not mean my Camino experience and the life-lessons will be any less authentic than someone who stays in an allbergue and has a more spontaneous less-planned and most definitely less expensive journey. I am still going to be walking around 900kms and I will still worship in the same beautiful places and get my passport stamped each day and receive my Compostela and attend mass where ever I can.
I hope this has been useful and good luck on your Camino pilgrim xx
Thornley,
I just noticed that you may have a basic misunderstanding on the tour operators......they aren't necessarily group tours.
All of the ones that I met were solo or couples doing their walk just like everyone else. They just happened to have their stuff booked ahead of time. Some stayed in the Paradors, some didn't....I suspect is was simply a choice in cost.
There were, of course, group tours that had buses waiting at every corner. I do not believe that the OP or others asking about the tour operators were intending to be going on those types of trips.
Just book the flights, accommodations, have the big bags carried so they can be in more than the 2 sets of clothes that we had to choose from, and walk along with everyone else. I truly believe they had an extremely similar experience as us. And most of them started in St Jean, like us. We chose not to go on past Santiago.
Well, it sounds like PiT has booked her tour and will find out soon enough if she enjoys it. And also, how she recommends the fresh Pilgrims To Be that are asking the same questions next year!!
Thornley, strangely enough we didn't choose to stay in the Paradors. We personally prefer smaller places and, when we checked, the ones in all but one of the (3 or 4??) cities were booked up. The one that wasn't was in a little town....the one with the rooster in the church, I believe. It just didn't seem compelling enough. If there was room in the one in Santiago, we probably would have stayed there. Any great recommendations for the Le Puy route? We are doing that in September.
Back on the forum and fingers crossed I won’t be “bumped out” today! This post is in response to the question from OzViking about which tour provider I settled on for my Camino experience in May-June 2015.
Based on my own needs and budget and I came to the conclusion that the best option for me was to use a tour provider (and I figure you have already read through the conversation so I won’t go back over it). I originally found around 10 providers and eliminated some of those because they:
A) Were too expensive
B) Didn’t offer the full French Way
C) Appeared to cater for groups and not individuals or
D) Focused less on the walking and more on high-end accommodation and exquisite gourmet food (which sounded lovely but not for me)
E) Included lots of additional side trips
As mentioned, I wanted a supported (self-guided) tour and don’t necessarily need to travel with the same group all the way either. Not to say I won’t enjoy joining groups but I can also exercise flexibility.
I listened to and enjoyed some old Rick Steves podcasts I found in iTunes (he loves Spain) and I found a Spanish provider who sounded perfect. But because my trip was 18 months away he was reluctant to give me an estimate and was also too busy at the time. When it got closer, I reminded him, however he didn’t follow up (so unfortunately that provider missed out). Most of the providers had a strong connection to Spain and a sincere appreciation of walking (and while they are selling a product,) the ones with careful marketing that reached out and appealed to my own values were the ones that got into the next round so to speak.
I got the list down to four final contenders listed below:
1. Follow the Camino
2. Macs Adventures
3. Camino Ways
4. Frontier Holidays
Based on the criteria of what I deemed important, I then assessed each of the four providers on
1. Cost
2. Website
3. Responsiveness to follow up questions
4. Testimonials
5. Itinerary and
6. Free Wifi (not essential but as I will be writing a blog it was somewhat important to me)
To be honest I assigned a value against each of the criteria and scored each of them on a rating of 1-10. A bit like someone would conduct a tender evaluation. On many aspects the ratings were the same score for all four providers and there wasn’t much between first and last – 4 points in fact. The costs were assessed on an average daily rate over the full period and they were very similar and competitive. Yes, I probably could have done it myself but I want to enjoy my walking and not spend hours researching and booking travel before I leave or while I am in Spain. As I mentioned previously, I find it refreshing to hand over the organising to someone else because most of my life so far has been about organising others.
Interestingly, out of these four providers two where based in Dublin and the other two were based in Glasgow. (However many have offices around the globe). I have since discovered there are more providers in the US but my “search-engine” didn’t push me in that direction.
I settled on Follow the Camino – the very first website I stumbled across when the idea of walking the Camino first popped into my head back in December 2012. I considered my options for around 13 months and paid my deposit only a few weeks ago. “The proof of the pudding will be in the pot” as they say but this is what I came up with and I am happy with my decision and equally happy to share with other interested folk like yourself.
I continue to enjoy my preparation (which is now placing the organising in the capable hands of a third party) and to continue with my own local walking adventures. I will also be researching equipment and developing my photographic and writing / blogging skills so I can share my adventures with my support crew at home. In October I am going to walk The Six Foot Track, in the Blue Mountains (not nearly as long as your amazing Bibbulmun track but something I am looking forward to) In the meantime I continue to discover and rediscover many beautiful walks here in the Australian Capital Territory. I am dreaming also of my next Camino in 2018 (with my son) and we are talking about the Northern Way.
Life is such an adventure and I have learnt many things from the forum. It was perhaps naïve of me, but I didn’t anticipate there would be so many people questioning why I would want to choose a tour provider – and so few comments about how to choose a good one and ones to watch out for. I did however get some very comforting personal messages in my in-box and an invitation to join a local group who are really lovely. I will continue to learn a great deal from them. I work full time, have a very active young son in his final years of school. I will take up more part time study this year and enjoy my own very busy social and active life with my partner. The fact I have handed a small part of my Camino experience over to tour provider does not mean my Camino experience and the life-lessons will be any less authentic than someone who stays in an allbergue and has a more spontaneous less-planned and most definitely less expensive journey. I am still going to be walking around 900kms and I will still worship in the same beautiful places and get my passport stamped each day and receive my Compostela and attend mass where ever I can.
I hope this has been useful and good luck on your Camino pilgrim xx
Thank you OzViking I will enjoy reading your blog - such a great way to capture your adventures I plan to do something similar in May next year.I walked the Camino in May and June this year and I took advantage of a tour operator. I chose Raw Travel as I had experienced their services in February on their Great Ocean Road Walk and was very impressed. In addition it was an Australian operator, so it was easy for me to get on the phone to them as I was planning my walk. Here are my thoughts and observations:
I am very pleased I used a tour operator to book my accommodation and to transport my luggage for the entire journey St Jean Pied de Port to Finisterre.
I never had to worry if I would have a bed for the night and I had the luxury of more than one change of clothes.
I met so many people that were fed up with the albergue style accommodation that they were desperately looking for alternative accommodation with privacy.
I was able to socialise with everyone during the day and at mealtimes, but I could close the door to 'the world' when I wanted to go to sleep or simply needed a bit of privacy.
I had my own toilet and shower facilities every day.
I could go straight to my room when I arrived. No opening hours or 'lights out' rules.
I have done my share of backpacking and staying at hostels when I was younger. I have nothing to prove and it is OK to be gentle to myself.
I am fortunate that I have sufficient funds to pay for this kind of service and in the future, this will be the only way for me. If I can't afford it, I would rather stay home and enjoy my own bed and other comforts.
As to my specific tour operator .... There were a couple of glitches, but no bigger than they could be sorted out on the spot or along the way.
I can definitely recommend using a tour operator.
If interested my blog address is http://ozvikingcamino.wordpress.com
Were you satisfied with the choice of Follow the Camino?Hello fellow Pilgrims -I have been reading posts on this forum for the last 9 months and have learnt a lot, thank you for sharing your insights and ideas I have found it extremely useful. I have 19 months to go until I walk the Camino (French Way) in May 2015 and I think about it every day especially when I am out walking. I have set up a special savings plan and am very close to selecting a specialist travel company to assist me. I had hoped to walk with two friends but will most likely be heading off by myself. (Although I know you are never alone on the Camino). I have narrowed them down to four possibilities and seriously they all look fantastic. Does anyone have any tips on what I should look for to help me make that final selection? My Camino starts in Canberra in the Australian Capital Territory.
Yes I was very happy with this company. I made some changes in the middle of my journey and they were very accomodating. I loved my journey - but some of that was because I knew it would work for me (no matter what)Were you satisfied with the choice of Follow the Camino?
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