happymarkos
HappyMark
- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2023. Finish the VDLP. Zamora to Santiago.
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The only way to get a good answer is to walk in them extensively. What suits others may not suit you. I have used boots with flexible soles and boots with completely inflexible soles. When I had an ankle injury, the inflexible ones were great. My feet don't work well with sandals and lightweight trail shoes. Other Forum Members love those! I think you will need to do your own testing, though the experience of others may guide you about what you can expect. I have not had blister problems with either rigid or flexible soles. Good luck!I just can't weigh up in my mind if the lack of flexing creates other problems that offset its other advantages.
Hi DaveyI need boots too. I use Lowa Camino (yes really) GTX boots. Great hiking boots, soft and supple, with a good lacing thingy that stops your feet moving forward in the boot on steep downhills. I swear by them, and on my third pair. Maybe worth a look?
Edit: they can be re-soled too
Davey
Hello artuto garcia,Rigid soles boots are designed mostly for technical terrain and mountaineering.
There are two kinds of hard-sole boots: backpacking and mountaineering. Although both have hard soles, the level of stiffness varies greatly. Backpacking boots are stronger all-around than regular hiking boots, and they have significantly stronger shanks in the midsole to support the heavier load. Backpacking boots need to be flexible and light, but strong enough to tackle difficult terrain over a long time.
Mountaineering boots are as strong and hard as you will find. They are built to carry heavy loads, attach tools like crampons to them and are made to handle extreme elements. Wearing these on day hikes will be uncomfortable; the lack of flexibility hurt a hiker’s feet.
I am looking at a new lighter pair of boots (yes boots as I need the ankle support) and am trying the Hanwag Anisak GTX model.
It has many attractive features including a purposed designed wider area towards the front that corresponds to the part of my that is naturally the widest.
My dilemma is that the soles are very rigid. It is very difficult to bend the boot. I know there is a lot of positive commentary about taking shorter steps and trying to place the foot flat on the ground to minimise ankle flexing. This boot basically achieves that because of the rigidity of the sole. The reviews I have read all praise it as a long distance walking boot and I know the brand is a very good one (one of the few boots that can be resoled) and otherwise it ticks the boxes. I weigh 70 kg and carry about 8kgs in my backpack.
I just can't weigh up in my mind if the lack of flexing creates other problems that offset its other advantages.
Comments please
Happymarkos
Thank you Falcon 269The only way to get a good answer is to walk in them extensively. What suits others may not suit you. I have used boots with flexible soles and boots with completely inflexible soles. When I had an ankle injury, the inflexible ones were great. My feet don't work well with sandals and lightweight trail shoes. Other Forum Members love those! I think you will need to do your own testing, though the experience of others may guide you about what you can expect. I have not had blister problems with either rigid or flexible soles. Good luck!
Rigid soles boots are designed mostly for technical terrain and mountaineering.
There are two kinds of hard-sole boots: backpacking and mountaineering. Although both have hard soles, the level of stiffness varies greatly. Backpacking boots are stronger all-around than regular hiking boots, and they have significantly stronger shanks in the midsole to support the heavier load. Backpacking boots need to be flexible and light, but strong enough to tackle difficult terrain over a long time.
Mountaineering boots are as strong and hard as you will find. They are built to carry heavy loads, attach tools like crampons to them and are made to handle extreme elements. Wearing these on day hikes will be uncomfortable; the lack of flexibility hurt a hiker’s feet.
I can only speak from experience, Frances SJJP-Santiago Sept.-Nov. 2016 & Aug. thru Oct. 2017. I used Asolo boots with the Vibram sole. It is thick soled and had zero issues with my feet. My wife had a pair of Merrills, she ended up with a broken bone in her foot and tendon damage which she suffers from today (do to soft sole) even though she finished the 500 kilometers we had left in our trek. The only time I opted for using a hiking shoe, it almost ended my Camino because of a foot injury(Merrill hiking shoe). There are many places along the Frances where support and foot protection are needed, hence we carry along a lighter shoe for places like the Mesetta and for walking around the towns. The rest of the Way we wore our Asolo boots. When you travel thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars to partake of the Camino we see no sense in jeopardizing it because of less than adequate footware, albeit we walked with James from Australia who was on his second Camino Frances.... both Caminos he was barefoot.
James was from Australia, had long brown dreads and had a staff about 6 feet long. You most likely did meet him, he is a very personable guy, and my wife and me too! We were walking the Camino with our daughter and her husband. Rachele and Chad.I think I met James from Australia in a bar in Santiago 2016 (maybe with you? He was with a very interesting man from the US)? We went same bar for a few days running. He said he had a hard time barefoot, can't believe he did it again!
Sorry to hijack your thread happymarkos!
Davey
I also use Asolo. I like the protection that gives semi-rigid bootsThe Asolo boots (two Caminos SJJP-Santiago) I wore are rated mountaineering. I had zero issues with my feet from wearing them. Great ankle support for one who has bad ankles from sports injuries, Everyone has different needs.
Having worked with doctors in general and quite a few orthopedic surgeons I asked them about boots before my first Camino.
Every one of them said wearing high boots because it will give your ankles more stability is a fallacy. They do not and in some cases can contribute to injuries. I believe, and this is based on ONLY my observation over 3 Caminos is that people with boots get a lot more blisters and serious ones than people in sandals or trail runners. This very scientific study is supported by Richard Pryor who famously asked his wife when she found him in bed with another woman. “I am not having sex with this woman, who are you going to believe me or your eyes. Get trail runners my eyes would never lie to you! Thanks
DavebugIndividually held preferences are something which cannot and should not be debated. Folks have a right to make choices based on whatever criteria they believe is important to them. To that end, I want to say that whatever your reason for wanting boots, flip-flops, bare feet, sandals, trail runners, etc. do not feel that you must change your decisions based on what 'everyone else' does. Be comfortable with your choice.
That being said, if there are statements or observations made in a forum post as a reason to support a choice, then I think that it is important to make sure that any stated 'facts' are actually 'facts'.
Such is the case with footwear. It is not my intention to offend anyone, as I believe that there are times and situations where boots are a reasonable choice to make when hiking, backpacking, or walking. I own and use a pair of Lowa Camino boots in certain seasons and weather conditions in the mountains when backpacking.
However, there a lot of people on this forum looking for answers about footwear and want to make decisions based on what is factual criteria. If looking at boots as a footwear choice, ankle support is not a reason to do so.
As to the long held idea that boots provide ankle support, long term studies and research have shown this to be not quite the case.
First, unless there are specific and diagnosed medical issues, the ankle is best protected with exercise and use, where the ankle is allowed to use uneven surfaces, exercise, and balancing on one foot in order to build strength and endurance and lessen susceptibility to injurious fatigue.
The only sure and viable ankle support for those with such a medically indicated need, are ankle braces which can fit inside of the shoe or boot. Despite anecdotal evidence and subjective opinion to the contrary, research has repeatedly shown that boots by themselves do not provide the level of stiffness and the shear rigidity needed to keep ankles free from injury.
They can, in fact, exacerbate the risk of injury.
A foot in a boot is sitting higher off the ground than when in a shoe because the outer and mid-soles are much thicker and built up. Additionally, the outer sole of boots are trimmed closer to shell of the boot, meaning that the outer sole has a fairly narrow profile. Both of these factors have been shown to have a higher risk of the footwear 'rolling' when stepping on an unstable surface or piece of debris like loose rocks or uneven surfaces.
As the boot begins to roll, the boot carries the foot with it, the higher material of the boot above the ankle exerts more force against the foot to make it roll with the boot. That material is not stiff enough to keep from flexing, which means that your ankle is going to start bending as the roll of the boot continues. And because the foot is higher off the ground inside the boot, the ankle can be forced into a more significant bending.
Another factor about boots that helps lead to injury is their weight. The heavier the weight that the foot and lower legs need to lift, the more stress and fatigue the ankles and supporting structures are exposed to. Such weakens the ability of the ankle structures to maintain resiliency.
Trail shoes and trail runners, on the other hand, do the opposite when confronted with the same type of uneven surface or debris. The outer and midsoles are much closer to the ground. They are also wider than the shoe making for a contact point with the ground that is more stable. Their much lighter weight keeps ankle structures from fatiguing.
Now here is the thing researchers found as most significant: A foot in a shoe that is kept a bit loose can compensate, to a large degree, when the shoe starts to roll off of an uneven surface. As the shoe rolls, the shoe tends to slip around the foot. In other words, the shoe moves around the foot for the most part, so the ankle won't immediately bend out of place with the shoe. This allows the wearer of the shoe to have enough time to react to the rolling and twisting shoe to keep the ankle from injurious strain.
Yes, there are people who get ankle injuries in trail shoes and trail runners. But those injuries are less frequent and less severe, on an average, than with a foot encased in an above the ankle hiking boot.
As I stated above, there will be any number of folks that, with no predisposing medical conditions, will state anecdotal evidence along the lines that they, or a friend, or other family members, et al, were saved by above the ankle boots. Subjective opinion is like that.But objective evidence begs to differ on the best way of protecting ankles and the lower leg structures.
Davebug
greatly appreciate your post and all the detail you provide; it has definitely given me something to further consider.
I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on:
1) how to keep the toes away from the front of the footwear during steep and sometimes very long descents. My practise is to tap the foot back before starting, tighten the upper laces on my boots and lengthen my trekking poles, sometimes by 20+ cm.
2) how do trail shoes accomplish this?
3) What styles/brands footwear best meets the criteria you have outlined above?
Looking forward to hearing further
regards
Happymark
Many (most?) shoes have two eyelets at the ankle (even some boots have this - like my Hoka Tor Ultra WPs).
The first example is the most common way (from what I've seen) to use those eyelets, but there are a bunch of tricks here:
This is anecdotal, but I think I crossed the Pyrenees with too many of these kinds of tricks used - my feet were not moving at all within the shoe. Someone posted a great piece here about the intense pressure that a completely immobile foot puts on your skin ... I'll try to dig it up.
I use Lowa Aeox trail runner mid height gortex... I have Lowa renegades at home and I felt they were two heavy for this type of walking. I wear a heavy brace on my left knee and need ankle support. I tied my laces at the ankle and above to avoid my foot sliding in my boot. Lowa for me fit true to size and dont require wear in period....worked great. No blisters and no toe issues. Some people have toe hitting the front of the bit issues... go up half size or buy the wide with. I would suggest you try them or any shoe on in the store....walk around a bit even if you intend to buy them on line (sometimes cheaper). I also used some specific insoles and carried an extra pair along with blister proof sock from Wright socks and antishock trekking poles from Leki. For someone with knee and joint issues this made all the difference in the world for me. Good luckHi Davey
thank you for your comments. I did not know that any Lowa boots can be resoled. I will see if i can find any local stockists of Lowa Camino. I currently walk in Lowa Renegades and am looking at options.
regards
happymarkos
Sandals!1) how to keep the toes away from the front of the footwear during steep and sometimes very long descents. My practise is to tap the foot back before starting, tighten the upper laces on my boots and lengthen my trekking poles, sometimes by 20+ cm.
Thanks MartinThank you many times Davebugg for your fantastic knowledge and posts in the amazingly complex area of Camino footware and all that !!!!!
And Mark ,,,buen camino from me for your next camino
I’m wearing Hanwag Tatra at the moment, and have walked in Meindl for years. Both hard sole. I think they are great. They eliminate the pain of walking on sharp stones and pebbles of which there are quite a lot.I am looking at a new lighter pair of boots (yes boots as I need the ankle support) and am trying the Hanwag Anisak GTX model.
It has many attractive features including a purposed designed wider area towards the front that corresponds to the part of my that is naturally the widest.
My dilemma is that the soles are very rigid. It is very difficult to bend the boot. I know there is a lot of positive commentary about taking shorter steps and trying to place the foot flat on the ground to minimise ankle flexing. This boot basically achieves that because of the rigidity of the sole. The reviews I have read all praise it as a long distance walking boot and I know the brand is a very good one (one of the few boots that can be resoled) and otherwise it ticks the boxes. I weigh 70 kg and carry about 8kgs in my backpack.
I just can't weigh up in my mind if the lack of flexing creates other problems that offset its other advantages.
Comments please
Happymarkos
That may have been a post of mine about blister prevention guidelines. Was this it?
I have seriously painful neuropathy in my right foot, walking the Camino has been difficult for me over the past 8 years.
Lots of good info. in this thread. I think the most important advice is to walk a lot in different shoes/boots before you go and pay attention to your own experience in your footwear. Try not to let your (or others') opinions about "important features" brainwash you. At least some of these claims are purely marketing and not backed up by data. And absolutely nothing is more important than fit and personal experience. And these things vary considerably between people, as you will find out if you peruse the many posts about this topic on this forum.
I did read that and it is consistent with what I saw: To paraphrase inexpertly, with the foot "locked" in place by a too-snug fit, the shear force is concentrated beneath the skin layers, and a blister forms.
This was interesting about causes and *treatment* of blisters, but I cannot expertly assess its credibility:
https://www.podiatrytoday.com/how-to-manage-friction-blisters
hi Mark,,, haaaa very unsettled and looking for a march start for the next Camino !!!!!Thanks Martin
Are you settled back in OZ, or unsettled and ready to walk again?
Buen Camino
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