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At home, as a dog owner I always have a small roll of black 'doggie bags' with me - if you're a dog owner, you'll know the ones. On camino, we take a few rolls in our packs. They weigh nothing and are a very easy way to take any loo paper with us and dispose of it at the next available bin. You can even get biodegradable ones! And these days, hand sanitiser is an essential accessory anyway so ... Happy Trails!”
PS. We always make sure we have a supply of tissue with us each day
That’s good. Yet still the problem remainsI think this is what most responsible Pilgrims do.
We also carry a tiny 22 gm trowel 'just in case' we need to bury something.
Has only had to be used once thankfully.
That’s good. Yet still the problem remains
I wasn’t referring to that. I was referring to your comment about what most responsible pilgrims already dowithout getting too graphic.
The paper is not buried.
As that is not biodegradable.
I wasn’t referring to that. I was referring to your comment about what most responsible pilgrims already do
couldn't they be pay as "you go" ?Two points;
- there is never just one solution to a problem.
- some of us think that imposing a 'solution' on the local community that they would need to fund and we, as pilgrims, wouldn't contribute directly to, is far from an ideal arrangement.
They could, and the OP added that later. I've never seen a remote PAYG toilet, and have no idea how well that would work. Everytime I have seen such facilities they have in in locations in cities and towns, or service centres along motorways, but not in some otherwise unattended location. Maybe someone who knows of such an arrangement could tell us how well that works.couldn't they be pay as "you go" ?
Samarkand
the change in behaviour might also have to include a change in diet! I sing my own little ditty to remind me of my weaknesses in this sphere : " loads of tea will make you pee and coffee make you crap".They could, and the OP added that later. I've never seen a remote PAYG toilet, and have no idea how well that would work. Everytime I have seen such facilities they have in in locations in cities and towns, or service centres along motorways, but not in some otherwise unattended location. Maybe someone who knows of such an arrangement could tell us how well that works.
The argument advanced by the OP does not work for me. The distances between towns and villages on the CF is generally not that far. I once estimated that only around 7% of the legs between successive locations is greater than 10 km, about the distance that would justify placing a toilet halfway based on the OPs suggested spacing. I estimate about 60% of towns and villages, would be less than five kilometres from the next town or village. There might be some debate about the utility of placing a toilet between the ~30% that are middling distances in this, ie where the next location is over five km but less than 10 km from its predecessor.
More, and maybe my memory is fading here, but the worst places that I saw on the CF were generally just on the outskirts of towns. The solution to that is not a toilet a few km away, but a change of behaviour.
I carry a roll of doggie bags with me to put my own tissue waste in. As an avid hiker in Canada the "leave no Trace"It might be best to finish your breakfast before continuing….
The subject of the leavings of ‘hedge hoppers’ regularly rears its ugly head and continues to cause distress.
Observations:
Sadly the human body does not work to a timetable and, when walking long distances, frequently fails when the call of nature screams loudly, particularly for those who are ‘maturing’ when frequency and urgency increasingly reign. Put simply, when you’ve gotta go, you’ve no choice but to go…… No amount of pelvic floor exercises is going to change that.
Facilities along many, sometimes very long, sections are non-existent between settlements.
And never the twain will meet……..
Hence, with the best will in the world, there is no choice but to ‘hedge hop’ with all the ensuing unpleasant consequences. Well-meaning suggestions of trowel use, let’s face it, are not going to work for the large majority. A proper solution is needed.
Possible solutions:
Option 1 In these days when mandates rule, each walker has to be fitted with a tap and a plug which can be activated when facilities are available. I jest, of course.
Option 2 Provide facilities at frequent intervals along the way. I can already feel the hackles going up and a squillion very loud objections, but, please, hear me out. It is not a requirement for pilgrims to endure abdominal torture and embarrassment.
Initially, the placement of porta-cabin toilets would be relatively easy to place beside many, though not all, of the stages. It is actually in the interests of local communities to support this. Local bars would in no way be affected. The majority of pilgrims take regular breaks for refreshment and socialising, thus patronising the local businesses. I am sure that it would be simple enough for a numbers wizard to calculate how many cabins would be needed say every 6 km, on average a 90-minute walk, and how frequently they would need to be emptied, cleaned and restocked. And don’t roll your eyes. 90 minutes is a long time when you’re desperate…. Indeed, new jobs would be created for locals. The cabin clusters could be tastefully screened so as not to offend the eye. Later, when assessing how this experiment is impacting the tissue issue, it could be possible, as here in Australia, to establish composting toilets to replace the portable cabins if an alternative solution were deemed necessary.
Conclusion
This problem is not suddenly going to disappear without a positive solution. The problem is caused by a lack of toilets along the way - so provide the toilets. Times have changed, causing the old-timers to despair, I know. Things ain’t what they used to be, and are not likely to return.
In the meantime, stop whinging about the problem and start embracing a solution, and the only solution is to provide regularly placed facilities.
I carry a roll of doggie waste bags with me to pack out my own tissue waste. The litter is disgusting and irresponsible.It might be best to finish your breakfast before continuing….
The subject of the leavings of ‘hedge hoppers’ regularly rears its ugly head and continues to cause distress.
Observations:
Sadly the human body does not work to a timetable and, when walking long distances, frequently fails when the call of nature screams loudly, particularly for those who are ‘maturing’ when frequency and urgency increasingly reign. Put simply, when you’ve gotta go, you’ve no choice but to go…… No amount of pelvic floor exercises is going to change that.
Facilities along many, sometimes very long, sections are non-existent between settlements.
And never the twain will meet……..
Hence, with the best will in the world, there is no choice but to ‘hedge hop’ with all the ensuing unpleasant consequences. Well-meaning suggestions of trowel use, let’s face it, are not going to work for the large majority. A proper solution is needed.
Possible solutions:
Option 1 In these days when mandates rule, each walker has to be fitted with a tap and a plug which can be activated when facilities are available. I jest, of course.
Option 2 Provide facilities at frequent intervals along the way. I can already feel the hackles going up and a squillion very loud objections, but, please, hear me out. It is not a requirement for pilgrims to endure abdominal torture and embarrassment.
Initially, the placement of porta-cabin toilets would be relatively easy to place beside many, though not all, of the stages. It is actually in the interests of local communities to support this. Local bars would in no way be affected. The majority of pilgrims take regular breaks for refreshment and socialising, thus patronising the local businesses. I am sure that it would be simple enough for a numbers wizard to calculate how many cabins would be needed say every 6 km, on average a 90-minute walk, and how frequently they would need to be emptied, cleaned and restocked. And don’t roll your eyes. 90 minutes is a long time when you’re desperate…. Indeed, new jobs would be created for locals. The cabin clusters could be tastefully screened so as not to offend the eye. Later, when assessing how this experiment is impacting the tissue issue, it could be possible, as here in Australia, to establish composting toilets to replace the portable cabins if an alternative solution were deemed necessary.
Conclusion
This problem is not suddenly going to disappear without a positive solution. The problem is caused by a lack of toilets along the way - so provide the toilets. Times have changed, causing the old-timers to despair, I know. Things ain’t what they used to be, and are not likely to return.
In the meantime, stop whinging about the problem and start embracing a solution, and the only solution is to provide regularly placed facilities.
I don't have a suggestion for the excrement part of the problem (bring a bag, carry it out), but many long distance backpackers (think on the trail in wilderness for days), carry a "pee rag". Yep, they carry it attached to their backpack (always, always remember which side in case you also carry a sweat rag). Urine is sterile but smelly so the rag (often a bandanna designated for this purpose) should be washed out every night. Have not personally done this, I am a put-it-in-a-bag person, but many female backpackers use this method.It might be best to finish your breakfast before continuing….
The subject of the leavings of ‘hedge hoppers’ regularly rears its ugly head and continues to cause distress.
Observations:
Sadly the human body does not work to a timetable and, when walking long distances, frequently fails when the call of nature screams loudly, particularly for those who are ‘maturing’ when frequency and urgency increasingly reign. Put simply, when you’ve gotta go, you’ve no choice but to go…… No amount of pelvic floor exercises is going to change that.
Facilities along many, sometimes very long, sections are non-existent between settlements.
And never the twain will meet……..
Hence, with the best will in the world, there is no choice but to ‘hedge hop’ with all the ensuing unpleasant consequences. Well-meaning suggestions of trowel use, let’s face it, are not going to work for the large majority. A proper solution is needed.
Possible solutions:
Option 1 In these days when mandates rule, each walker has to be fitted with a tap and a plug which can be activated when facilities are available. I jest, of course.
Option 2 Provide facilities at frequent intervals along the way. I can already feel the hackles going up and a squillion very loud objections, but, please, hear me out. It is not a requirement for pilgrims to endure abdominal torture and embarrassment.
Initially, the placement of porta-cabin toilets would be relatively easy to place beside many, though not all, of the stages. It is actually in the interests of local communities to support this. Local bars would in no way be affected. The majority of pilgrims take regular breaks for refreshment and socialising, thus patronising the local businesses. I am sure that it would be simple enough for a numbers wizard to calculate how many cabins would be needed say every 6 km, on average a 90-minute walk, and how frequently they would need to be emptied, cleaned and restocked. And don’t roll your eyes. 90 minutes is a long time when you’re desperate…. Indeed, new jobs would be created for locals. The cabin clusters could be tastefully screened so as not to offend the eye. Later, when assessing how this experiment is impacting the tissue issue, it could be possible, as here in Australia, to establish composting toilets to replace the portable cabins if an alternative solution were deemed necessary.
Conclusion
This problem is not suddenly going to disappear without a positive solution. The problem is caused by a lack of toilets along the way - so provide the toilets. Times have changed, causing the old-timers to despair, I know. Things ain’t what they used to be, and are not likely to return.
In the meantime, stop whinging about the problem and start embracing a solution, and the only solution is to provide regularly placed facilities.
Agreed! (times 1,000)After participating in 2 Ditch Pig Gigs, I believe providing a magnet for people to use a loo is a terrible idea. We spent hours cleaning up behind two "rest" area, one at Alto Mostelares and a second location near Boadilla which provide the kind of privacy people are looking for to do their business. Just clean up after yourself.
This is now an urban myth! More recent research has disproved it. See this extract from Wikipedia:Urine is sterile but smelly
Bacteria and pathogens
Urine is not sterile, not even in the bladder.[16][17] Earlier studies, with less sophisticated analytical techniques, had found that urine was sterile until it reached the urethra. In the urethra, epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram-negative rod and cocci bacteria.[18]
Living in Logroño from 1998 - 2000. My personal pet peeve was that in all my time I never witnessed one person clean up after their dog. Upon my return in 2018 and 2019 for my CFs I was surprised to see exactly the opposite.
What changed? I really don’t know and never asked anybody. But I’d like to think that people got tired of it and educated themselves and others. How to educate a human that doesn’t want to deal with their own mess? How do you educate the huge ‘transient’ pilgrim traffic that is normally in a new spot everyday? Sadly I do not think with the increasing masses it is achievable to educate the masses. Too much of the, it-isn’t-in-my-backpack-so-I-don’t-need-to-worry-about-it.
Straight talk for the squeamish among us.for heavens sake (not my original choice of words) it’s YOUR excrement. For this I’d also suggest a ziplock in which to place your doggie bag for extra security. Not only are portajohns expensive to maintain, they stink and are ugly…want one parked in your neighborhood? For that matter I don’t want someone burying their business near my home, or where it could find it’s way into the water supply. I keep hearing my tropical medicine professor emphasizing the cause of many diseases: indiscriminate defecation.
While I agree with the concept, I can only imagine the path up and over to Roncesvalles strewn with the handout.One solution in my opinion would be for a handout to be given along with all the other handouts that are giving in SJPP saying, "DO NOT LEAVE TOILET PAPER ALONG THE TRAIL!!! PACK IT OUT!!!"
I don't see a lot of OTHER trash along the route. It's mostly TPWhile I agree with the concept, I can only imagine the path up and over to Roncesvalles strewn with the handout.
Not true. I’m a urologist. In the absence of pathology, bladder urine is sterile. Although vaginal bacteria colonize the distal urethra in women, transit time of urine through the urethra is fast, therefore in the absence of pathology, urine contains very few bacteria as it passes. For men, in the absence of pathology, the urine will typically be sterile.This is now an urban myth! More recent research has disproved it. See this extract from Wikipedia:
Took FUD on my first… tossed it away early. Impossible to use with trousers and base layers…I wish more women would try and use some sort of FUD so that the need to have tissues and all those plastic bags goes away. Have never understood the women that will shoot me down if I suggest it, or those that go EWWW when I suggest using a bandana to wipe the drips and wash it in your laundry at night.
The amount of plastic bags consumed on a daily basis as well as tissues, daily pads, etc. must be immense, and don't get me started on "I just buy a new bottle of water every few days and use that".
Granted, it is a bit tough to learn how to use an FUD after a lifetime of sitting down, but it frees you and cuts down on the trash immensely as well as those aromatic little spots we all detest.
Yep, my experience as well when "practicing" at home.Took FUD on my first… tossed it away early. Impossible to use with trousers and base layers…
Not true. I’m a urologist. In the absence of pathology, bladder urine is sterile. Although vaginal bacteria colonize the distal urethra in women, transit time of urine through the urethra is fast, therefore in the absence of pathology, urine contains very few bacteria as it passes. For men, in the absence of pathology, the urine will typically be sterile.
I wish more women would try and use some sort of FUD so that the need to have tissues and all those plastic bags goes away. Have never understood the women that will shoot me down if I suggest it, or those that go EWWW when I suggest using a bandana to wipe the drips and wash it in your laundry at night.
The amount of plastic bags consumed on a daily basis as well as tissues, daily pads, etc. must be immense, and don't get me started on "I just buy a new bottle of water every few days and use that".
Granted, it is a bit tough to learn how to use an FUD after a lifetime of sitting down, but it frees you and cuts down on the trash immensely as well as those aromatic little spots we all detest.
In the part of Asia where I am, a toilet sprayer is universal, and no-one uses TP. So a drying cloth is normal - not nice, but not shockingly disgusting.My better half normally uses a small ultralight wash cloth.
It gets laundered with our clothes every night.......
take some zip lock plastic bags with a new children's size cotton handkerchief inside. Give them out to women in the first albergue as gifts to reuse and rinse each night instead of leaving toilet paper on the path. Ask them to spread the message.
In the part of Asia where I am, a toilet sprayer is universal, and no-one uses TP. So a drying cloth is normal - not nice, but not shockingly disgusting.
A while ago @Kanga described her preventative action to minimize TP litter:
Thank you for the chuckle, @Tincatinker .I expect politicians, situationists and artists to be proud of their crap but the rest of us?
Me too.I actually find it a bit gross now, when sprayers are not installed
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