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Hopefully the work on the "skin-in" weight wasn't one with that same craft knife!Dave,
I’m spending lockdown with an electronic spring balance, spreadsheet and a craft-knife literally shaving grammes off my ‘skin-out’ weight. I’ve done some work on my ‘skin-in’ weight also!
I’m post some of my success stories when I get time.
By gosh! your actual pack is heavy. mine is 800 grams for 20 litres and there are packs a lot lighter than that. I can never understand why people use a Camelback. First you have the weight of the camelback itself, and then it carries a lot more water than you need to get between watering spots. I carry a plastic 330ml soft drink bottle which I just keep filling up as I go. I have never run out of water. You are carrying an extra 2 kilograms just so that you don't have to fill up on the way. When you do fill on the way you get nice cold water. My pack weight including water is just under 5kg.Great job!
I found this wonderful website, The Lighter Pack, where you can input the weight of all your individual items and then analyze what you’ve got and what needs to be pared down.
this is my list (although I never completely filled in all the weights!) for my Portuguese coastal Camino in 2019.
https://lighterpack.com/r/urk0wy
By gosh! your actual pack is heavy. mine is 800 grams for 20 litres and there are packs a lot lighter than that. I can never understand why people use a Camelback. First you have the weight of the camelback itself, and then it carries a lot more water than you need to get between watering spots. I carry a plastic 330ml soft drink bottle which I just keep filling up as I go. I have never run out of water. You are carrying an extra 2 kilograms just so that you don't have to fill up on the way. When you do fill on the way you get nice cold water. My pack weight including water is just under 5kg.
Dave,
I’m spending lockdown with an electronic spring balance, spreadsheet and a craft-knife literally shaving grammes off my ‘skin-out’ weight. I’ve done some work on my ‘skin-in’ weight also!
I’m post some of my success stories when I get time.
I’ll try to figure out how to put it on later - but it is comprehensive. I’ve even weighed €300 in €20 notes.@henrythedog have you shared your List already? While i share your view, that a few added luxuries are totally acceptable, 9kg sounds a LOT to me.
As with my List from #58 i also like to carry a few comforts with me, likely less than you do, but even then, i think i could shave 0,5-1kg of that without running the risk of being seriously uncomfortable.
It has pros and cons. There is no frame. There is no ventilation on the back. It has one main compartment, and that is it. On the other side, it is very robust regarding its weight, practically waterproof, has every feature i want and then, it is very light. And it is expensive, so one should know what one wants. So definitely not for everyone. I would not want to carry 9kg over an extended period with it (some people do).I’ll try to figure out how to put it on later - but it is comprehensive. I’ve even weighed €300 in €20 notes.
I see your rucksack is 500g, which is outstanding. My osprey Kestrel (also 38l) is a shade under 1500g, with all the ‘trimmings’ removed - but it’s bomb-proof and very comfortable.
25l would do
I am a little puzzled by how you could get 9 kg of stuff into 25 L, unless it included water on the sides. I carry less than 6 kg in a 31 L pack, and it would be hard (but not impossible) to squeeze into 25L. Do you have a sleeping bag?my pack weight of just under 9Kg
I am a little puzzled by how you could get 9 kg of stuff into 25 L, unless it included water on the sides. I carry less than 6 kg in a 31 L pack, and it would be hard (but not impossible) to squeeze into 25L. Do you have a sleeping bag?
I am not a summer walker either. I was not questioning/criticizing the weight that you carry. I was just wondering how you might squeeze the volume into a 25L pack, because I wouldn't be able to do that comfortably. The weight of your jacket and the pack itself partly explains it.I'm not a summer walker... , men's XL clothing weighs considerably more than women's M
Sorry - I misunderstood. The 9Kg includes my typical walking outfit. Excluded from the 9 is only a ‘best case’ shorts and merino base layer outfit. On an average walking day when I’ve got the jacket and trousers on and I’m carrying my poles my pack weight would be about 7kg. My 38l Kestrel appears about 2/3 full at most so I’m guessing that a 25(ish) litre sack would suffice.I am not a summer walker either. I was not questioning/criticizing the weight that you carry. I was just wondering how you might squeeze the volume into a 25L pack, because I wouldn't be able to do that comfortably. The weight of your jacket and the pack itself partly explains it.
Inspired by Anhalter’s list I’m about to dust off the old credit card and invest a kilo away like magic.
Thanks. I’ll do it by direct message in the next few days rather than divert this thread.before you invest, i'll be gladly be a "sparring partner" in a discussion. Most items i use have an upside and a downside. If you get to specifics, lets talk about that before spending money first
Better still, start a new thread so we can all learn. It's been awhile since we had a new back pack thread!Thanks. I’ll do it by direct message in the next few days rather than divert this thread.
Camino Equipment | Weight |
Pack | 800 |
Pairs walking shorts (2) | 300 |
Pr good shorts | 150 |
Marino T shirts (2) | 160 |
Marino long sleeved T shirt | 90 |
L/S Shirt | 200 |
Long trousers | 400 |
Marino sox (3 pair) | 125 |
Underpants (3 pair) | 140 |
Poncho (2) Light plastic | 100 |
Thin, unlined, nylon jacket | 200 |
Hat | 90 |
Sandals | 520 |
Handkerchiefs (2) | 25 |
Silk sleeping bag liner | 120 |
Pillow case | 60 |
Toothbrush, tooth cup, comb | 192 |
Towel | 158 |
Flannel | 25 |
Gloves | 38 |
Soap | 80 |
Knife, spork | 50 |
Clothesline & Safety Pins | 20 |
4 Cable ties | 3 |
4 Small alloy Carabinas | 10 |
Sink plug | 15 |
Torch | 20 |
Pen, pencil, notepads | 126 |
First aid kit | 150 |
Needle and thread | 10 |
Toilet roll | 30 |
Tablets and doctors letter | 60 |
Security belt | 100 |
Pilgrim's Passport | 7 |
Passport, Insurance docs, Air tickets | 40 |
Travel money card | 2 |
Euros and sterling | 8 |
Guide book | 240 |
Water bottle & water | 350 |
5214 |
OK, no photos – but a few examples. I’m sorry if this turns into an essay!
First of all, many of the packing lists I see in most cases cannot be 100% complete. There are many little ‘it doesn’t weigh anything’ items which sneak into everyone’s pack and, combined, do add up. My packing list is skin out and has everything on it. Everything. Including my glasses. If you want to be ruthless about eliminating weight, be totally honest about what you’re carrying.
Secondly, it’s OK to make ‘camino lifestyle’ decisions. For example: I walk in Autumn through to Spring. It can be cold and is often wet. I walk in lightweight leather boots (could use trail runners); carry a 38l sack (fits my back perfectly, but 25l would do), carry full waterproofs (I’ve tried and choose not to use a poncho) and one decent change of clothes for the evening (Spaniards take you more seriously, and I prefer to feel respectable). I do not sleep in clothes I’m going to walk in. I could drop my pack weight of just under 9Kg by probably 2-3Kg by making different choices.
My approach is to make my core packing decisions, then aim to eliminate unnecessary weight. For example:
First aid kit. This only needs to be enough to get you to the next pharmacy, not equip a field hospital. In addition to personal medication, you only need enough for a bit of emergency wound cleaning, dressing, pain relief and foot care. Also don’t take anything you don’t know how to use.
Labels. Nothing needs a label. A single clothes label weights nothing, but 10 or 20 weigh something. Cut them out carefully.
Rucsack extras: crampon straps, haul loops, extra straps, straps which are longer than necessary; all can come off. If you use a rucksack liner (a rubble or trash-compactor bag), it need not be larger than the rucksack – trim off the excess. Stuffsack drawcords need only be long enough to allow the bag to fully open. Cut off the rest.
Electronics. My iPhone uses a ‘lightning’ cable; my small backup battery a micro USB. Don’t carry two leads (or if you do make one a very short one) – get a plug-in converter.
If you have a head torch, use lithium batteries. Half the weight and twice the life of standard batteries. You could go rechargeable if you want to take the chance.
Whilst some degree of organisation is important, do you really need bags within bags?
Make a list before you go and check it again on your return. I’ve been walking, camping and hiking all my life, I’ve been on camino many times and I’m an obsessive list-maker so I know what I use and don’t use. In my camino packing list there are only the following which I don’t expect to need: first aid kit, car key, one spare bootlace, large chocolate bar. Everything else will be used.
Make one out of very light silk (scarf fabric). It would probably be lighter than anything you can buy. Remember that the pillows in Spain tend to be long and narrow.really lightweight pillow cases.
I really need to move to Australia to make you a lightweight half zip long sleeve merino shirt and a silk pillowcase.I've been looking for really lightweight pillow cases.
No luck so far.
Any suggestions?
Make one out of very light silk (scarf fabric). It would probably be lighter than anything you can buy. Remember that the pillows in Spain tend to be long and narrow.
I really need to move to Australia to make you a lightweight half zip long sleeve merino shirt and a silk pillowcase.
Search "pillow shape" to get started. Some people claim that there is no standard shape in Spain. However, I recall a lot that were long (e.g. 1 m) and narrow (maybe 30 cm wide).I only ever found regular shaped pillows in Spain. I think ....
OK, the great pillow debate may commence
Search "pillow shape" to get started. Some people claim that there is no standard shape in Spain. However, I recall a lot that were long (e.g. 1 m) and narrow (maybe 30 cm wide).
I take a silk scarf about 18" x 48", that weighs only 28 g. I can unwrap it from my neck after dinner, and wrap it around whatever size pillow I have (if I don't like the cover provided).
Not what I call a bolster. They are pillows, but longer and narrower than what I'm used to. Here is an example that I found. They cover the width of the bed - sometimes even the width of a double bed.Bolsters
Hi,When I was hired by zPacks to do a QA gear test for the Zpacks Arc series after it had been out for two model years, I could not dial in the pack to a comfort level due to the design of the harness system. It never hurt, it just always had my attention like an annoying buzzing mosquito. It is a common complaint with that backpack series, but a lot of folks do find it very comfortable.
A lot of times, the manufacturer will let me keep the gear or shoes or whatever, but I sent the zPacks back. I did keep their Vertice rain jacket from a different QA testing, though.
The backpacks I have used on Camino do have more capacity than is needed for town to town walks. But they are used for more than one application. I do choose the best one for Camino walking, but it will also be one I use for 10 day backpacking trips in the wild. They are well-fitted so the capacity isn't an issue; I forget that I am carrying it.
Hi,
I have been looking into ultralight rain jackets for my upcoming Camino Frances. I have already decided that I don’t want to bring a poncho this time. I want to go as low as possible, weight wise and have been looking into the Zpacks vertice rain jackets for women. I like the fact that they are longer and have a good breathability. But they come at a price! Especially when they have to be send to Europe. Any experiences with this jacket. Are they worth the money. I would like to last them at least three caminos. What do you think?
@davebugg, you have given a very thorough review from your own experience of testing the Zpack Vertice, but we would not think otherwise, coming from you.
I am only chiming in here because you happened to mention the Frogg Toggs rain jacket, which I own (including the matching rain pants, but rarely need except for warmth in a cold spring rain occasionally). I have used them on all six of my Caminos and they've always kept me dry. I can not speak highly enough of Frogg Toggs for such a low price point. My son uses the Frogg Togg Poncho which covers his Camino size backpack, and if windy he adds a piece of bungee cord on the waist.
My only complaint is that it is not a very feminine/fashionable style for a woman. I did order their version of a more expensive, but attractive women's set, made of a different fabric, but I returned it as it seemed too bulky and weighed more, but was a little disappointed.
I recently read a posting to the effect 'that the albergues have first aid kits and they r fun to root thru'.
I also read a number of times that the bedbugs often travel between albergues because people save weight by not packing sleep shorts and a sleep shirt. Sleeping in the clothes one will wear the next day results in bedbug transfer.
Good to know, Thank youThat's a first for me. I haven't read that here before. I'm sure that most albergues have some basic first aid supplies, but I wouldn't rely on them. My first aid kit contains things that I might need when I'm far from a town or pharmacy, and definitely not near an albergue, so it seems rather foolish to rely on the first aid kit if an albergue.
I doubt that's how bed bugs are normally transported. It's far more likely for a bed bug to crawl into a sleeping bag for a late night meal and stay there. Then when the sleeping bag is packed up into the backpack it hitches a ride to the next destination.
And it seems like a van full of backpacks and suitcases being transported by Jacotrans would be a likely place for bed bugs to swap homes.
Good to know, Thank you! I will just spray my sleeping bag and the outside of my liner for bedbugs before the trip and pack accordingly.
Yet another newbie question... Do I need aWhat an eloquent and informative video, great! You've got everything well covered.
I attach my own packing list not to "compete" with yours – it differs only marginally – but to show that some details can be argued about: Lighter backpack, choice of rain gear – I finally chose a poncho and a light wind jacket, as whatever, the feet will get wet anyway –, using my iPhone as a lamp, less small bits and pieces that I would forget about and carry unused), but hey, all this is in the domain of personal preferences.
There is one thing though that has made my Camino’s substantially different: Shoes. From your previous posts, we know that you still experiment and the subject of course is totally personal.
I needed 2 long Camino’s to finally find my own set-up, which made my pack more simple, doing away with Vaseline, deer ointment, blister pads, heavy sandals, knee braces, etc.
My walking shoes (Hoka Speedgoat, combined with Superfeet inlays of which I take along one spare pair to change in the evenings) are so comfortable, that all previous predicaments like blisters, tendinitis, knee problems simply no longer occurred on my last 4 Camino's. Don’t get me wrong: This is not about the mentioned brands; it’s about REALLY finding the set-up that suits you best. Once you got it, you’ll walk a different Camino altogether.
And one important factor usually forgotten in backpacking threads: Cutting down on my weight 3 months before every walk. Dieting away as closely as possible the equivalent of my pack’s weight has a tremendous impact, as it contains the effects of Diabetic Neuropathy, a very common issue in a certain age. (Your self-description indicates that you may suffer this problem too)
But all in all, your video advice is spot on and should be watched by every newby, congrats and buen Camino.
I found that the albergues that have lockers provide locks. Oftentimes the kind that you put one euro coin in to lock it and release the key. Then the coin is returned when you reopen the lock.Yet another newbie question... Do I need aof some sort for the lockers and if so, how large, what kind? Thanks!
What an eloquent and informative video, great! You've got everything well covered.
I attach my own packing list not to "compete" with yours – it differs only marginally – but to show that some details can be argued about: Lighter backpack, choice of rain gear – I finally chose a poncho and a light wind jacket, as whatever, the feet will get wet anyway –, using my iPhone as a lamp, less small bits and pieces that I would forget about and carry unused), but hey, all this is in the domain of personal preferences.
There is one thing though that has made my Camino’s substantially different: Shoes. From your previous posts, we know that you still experiment and the subject of course is totally personal.
I needed 2 long Camino’s to finally find my own set-up, which made my pack more simple, doing away with Vaseline, deer ointment, blister pads, heavy sandals, knee braces, etc.
My walking shoes (Hoka Speedgoat, combined with Superfeet inlays of which I take along one spare pair to change in the evenings) are so comfortable, that all previous predicaments like blisters, tendinitis, knee problems simply no longer occurred on my last 4 Camino's. Don’t get me wrong: This is not about the mentioned brands; it’s about REALLY finding the set-up that suits you best. Once you got it, you’ll walk a different Camino altogether.
And one important factor usually forgotten in backpacking threads: Cutting down on my weight 3 months before every walk. Dieting away as closely as possible the equivalent of my pack’s weight has a tremendous impact, as it contains the effects of Diabetic Neuropathy, a very common issue in a certain age. (Your self-description indicates that you may suffer this problem too)
But all in all, your video advice is spot on and should be watched by every newby, congrats and buen Camino.
Well, yes, but many of us still assume that the norm is for pilgrims to carry their belongings in backpacks, and not forward things to the next town just so they can take more stuff.What is in my pack? Well, I would think that would depend on whether one is forwarding ato the next town.
How does that make any sense? Bed bugs can travel on sleep shorts and sleep shirt just as easily (or easier) than on the next day's walking clothes.I also read a number of times that the bedbugs often travel between albergues because people save weight by not packing sleep shorts and a sleep shirt. Sleeping in the clothes one will wear the next day results in bedbug transfer.
I think the idea was to wear sleep clothes in one's sleeping bag (washing them frequently of course) and street clothes in public. So perhaps one may not transfer them from person to person or person to clean bedding. However, it also seems many folks carry only a liner and use shared blankets from the albergues. In this case, I find myself inclined to agree with you. Placing such sleep clothes in a ziplock and using them at another location is like wearing the next day's clothes.How does that make any sense? Bed bugs can travel on sleep shorts and sleep shirt just as easily (or easier) than on the next day's walking clothes.
I was one of the people who just had a liner, and also one of the people who wore the next day's clothes as pyjamas to make a quicker and quieter exit in the morning, and also one who kept each day's set of clothes in ziplock bags. I generally washed clothes every day or every other day. If I went a day without washing, the set would remain in their ziplock until washed.I think the idea was to wear sleep clothes in one's sleeping bag (washing them frequently of course) and street clothes in public. So perhaps one may not transfer them from person to person or person to clean bedding. However, it also seems many folks carry only a liner and use shared blankets from the albergues. In this case, I find myself inclined to agree with you. Placing such sleep clothes in a ziplock and using them at another location is like wearing the next day's clothes.
Good to know, Thank you.I was one of the people who just had a liner, and also one of the people who wore the next day's clothes as pyjamas to make a quicker and quieter exit in the morning, and also one who kept each day's set of clothes in ziplock bags. I generally washed clothes every day or every other day. If I went a day without washing, the set would remain in their ziplock until washed.
I tend to agree with trecile that if we are sleeping in a bed with bedbugs, we are at risk to carry them to the next location regardless of what one wears to bed. Especially considering one isn't always immediately aware when one has been in contact with bedbugs. Unless you plan is to sterilize everything you sleep in every morning before arriving at your next day's accommodations.
To the best of my knowledge, I never directly encountered bedbugs on my Caminos, despite my practices in the first paragraph above.
- i plan on carrying a foam roller as well. i got my lightest one as a giveaway from my insurance company. it weighs in at 30g
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Not 100% sure on the definition of a soft roller, but to me it feels pretty hard.All this recent talk of pack weight has me looking at my gear again!
Do you have a link to that roller?
at 30 gms it must be a soft roller surely?
It also inspired me to put my recent packing list online.
I have zeroed out the quantity for the stuff I'm wearing and the food and water.
That way it shows just the pack weight.
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