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This is a great reminder. I always tip, but obviously the person isn't a mind reader and doesn't know that in advance. @BlackDog's comment is right on too. In my case, this gaitero kept his back turned long after the coins landed in his case and we had walked away, but I will modify my ways in the future. Of course, I'll leave this guy completely alone in the future if he's there. Good discussion.tip first'
.same here...simplifys matters.I always hold my camera up and look questioningly at the person, if it is a polite nod then I take a photo, if the indication is a finger pointed at his hat then I go donativo, if it is a negative gesture then I move on. The guy playing the bagpipes usually turns his back.
I always hold my camera up and look questioningly at the person, if it is a polite nod then I take a photo, if the indication is a finger pointed at his hat then I go donativo, if it is a negative gesture then I move on. The guy playing the bagpipes usually turns his back.
There is no such right in most countries around the world. If you are in a public place or can be seen from a public place, a photographer is perfectly entitled to capture your image as a photograph. Any individual's rights are associated with the publication of images for commercial reward, which in most cases is not permitted without an individual giving their explicit permission. The general exceptions are press photography for images considered 'newsworthy'. And I am aware that there are places where photography generally is banned near military installations and other public buildings, immigration halls at airports, ports and other border crossings, etc, etc.Equally I do condone the right to decide of every person to decide to has his/her picture taken.
We arrived on a wet and miserable morning when it was quiet, and the Prazo Obradorio was empty. The transformation into the vibrant, music filled square later in the day when the rain stops is, for me, part of the magic of the camino.Speaking of musicians, there was a street violin player I saw in Santiago last time I was there. Don't remember exactly where, but it was near the cathedral, maybe near where the old pilgrim's office was. Wow, he was good.
There is no such right in most countries around the world. If you are in a public place or can be seen from a public place, a photographer is perfectly entitled to capture your image as a photograph. Any individual's rights are associated with the publication of images for commercial reward, which in most cases is not permitted without an individual giving their explicit permission. The general exceptions are press photography for images considered 'newsworthy'. And I am aware that there are places where photography generally is banned near military installations and other public buildings, immigration halls at airports, ports and other border crossings, etc, etc.
There are clearly many complications here, but in general the application of rights to privacy that would allow someone to stop an image being captured only apply on private property or where an individual has a reasonable expectation of privacy. It makes me wonder if merely placing a sign with a 'no photography' symbol or the like is considered sufficient to create such an expectation in what might otherwise clearly be a public place where no such expectation would be reasonable.Although as I say, of course he should have the right to refuse to be photographed.
It would be interesting to see how far this has moved. It certainly has been clear for some time that this applies for commercial use of images, although I know of at least one case in Australia where the individual was unable to prevent use of his image in an advertising campaign. The other great game-changer would be the internet, and the growth of applications that allow us to share almost anything with almost anyone. Most of that is done without any expectation of commercial reward on the part of the individuals who use these tools to publish their holiday snaps etc.your rights of deciding what happens with your own likeness are yours to decide.
Sure, he's playing for donations, but he's also in a public place, playing a musical instrument and bringing attention to himself in a spot where hundreds, if not thousands of people pass by everyday. It's not unreasonable that out of all those people, not all are going to tip you, and with the common presence of cameras these days, some are going to film you. Don't like that, then get a regular job that doesn't require interacting with the public. Otherwise suck it up, buttercup.
Yeah, but none of that justifies a physical assault, which could have lead to a serious injury.We are a wee bit more strong on that general rule in Europe, it is called 'right to your own likeness being captured' or 'right to your image being taken' in (hazy on the exact translation there). It boils down that in Europe that
Unless you are a figure of real political/social public interest, your rights of deciding what happens with your own likeness are yours to decide.
Meaning, even if you turn up in a medieval costume at a tourist site, the decision if somebody can take, no speaking of use, your likeness is still yours.
Complicated business, so I agree, better ask than be sorry for not asking.
Buen Camino, SY
There is no such right in most countries around the world. If you are in a public place or can be seen from a public place, a photographer is perfectly entitled to capture your image as a photograph. Any individual's rights are associated with the publication of images for commercial reward, which in most cases is not permitted without an individual giving their explicit permission. The general exceptions are press photography for images considered 'newsworthy'. And I am aware that there are places where photography generally is banned near military installations and other public buildings, immigration halls at airports, ports and other border crossings, etc, etc.
ha ha....We don't know if he makes his living by playing music on the streets. Perhaps he just likes to play music, is grateful for whatever donativo he receives, but just doesn't want his picture taken. Turning one's back to the camera is, to me, a pretty clear indication that a person does not want his picture taken and I would be inclined to respect that. Perhaps assaulting someone for questioning that behaviour may indicate some anger management issues, or perhaps the bagpipe player is just not of sound mind. Either way, I don't think we should judge him. Pilgrims of all sorts are allowed to walk the Camino, and we try not to judge them. We might give the same latitude to music makers in Santiago.
That is interesting. Can you point to the legal instruments that establish this? I ask because the only recent law that I am aware of that prohibits the taking of images is the restriction in the 2014 'Citizen Security Law' about still or motion photography of police. If the more general restriction had been established, it would seem unnecessary to have passed this 2014 law.Spain has very strict laws regarding photography in all public spaces. It is illegal in most cases to actually take a photograph of somebody in public in Spain without their permission (although many performing musicians and performers obviously don't mind this happening in return for a donation).
ha ha....
Ain't no judging. He knocked the dude on his arse with a sucker punch to the jaw over a photograph. That's just unacceptable behavior.
I fully understand that. I saw enough of silly shite like this when I was a copper. There are times when discretion is the better part of valor. I'd just prefer nobody has to witness brawls as they enter the plaza at the end of their Camino. What a crappy memory that would be.Okay, Mark. I'll probably get into trouble for saying this, but some people will walk into a problem, instead of backtracking.
Maybe not, but we can form a preliminary opinion, and then see what the judge says in court.I don't think we should judge him.
Aren't the musicians in that tunnel working based on specific times they are permitted to play? Don't think these are impromtu shows.
I ask because the only recent law that I am aware of that prohibits the taking of images is the restriction in the 2014 'Citizen Security Law' about still or motion photography of police. If the more general restriction had been established, it would seem unnecessary to have passed this 2014 law.
No, this is not the same guy. Because of the court case I am aware of the identity of the person in question but I have not revealed it. He is a tall man who wears traditional dress.28 September. Hopefully, not this guy. He seemed real nice, and his pipes from the tunnel were like magic as we approached the Cathedral. There was someone else the next day ...View attachment 27612
Maybe not, but we can form a preliminary opinion, and then see what the judge says in court.
You could well be correct Doug and the article I read could well be incorrect. It mentioned Spain being one of the few countries where photography laws went much further than most and legally gave individuals more rights than in other countries. It mentioned the legalities of someone's image being taken in public by individuals, cctv cameras, google earth, etc. There was something about the Spanish constitution in it. I have also read various comments on photography forums mentioning it too. Article 18 of the Civil Law Act no. 1/1982 of 5 May 1982 on the Protection of the Right to Honour, Personal and Family Privacy and Own Image may have some relevance (or not).
Agreed...
As I said, this guy was real nice and my wife (smiling) had just given him some coins. It was a wonderful part of our arrival in Santiago. Hopefully, the capturing of a happy moment of our journey doesn't offend anyone?
I remember that! My Spanish friends were appalled! The French press never bothered to publish the pics so I knew nothing about it...I guess this thread has kind of beaten the topic to death, but I remember a big news story that illustrates the intercultural differences. When former Spanish prime minister Zapatero and his family were visiting the US, a picture of the Obamas and the Zapateros (and his goth daughters) was published by either the state dept or White House on the web. It caused an international kerfuffle because Zapatero had kept his daughters totally out of the press, as apparently is their right based on what some of you say.
..., a picture of the Obamas and the Zapateros (and his goth daughters) was published by either the state dept or White House on the web. It caused an international kerfuffle because Zapatero had kept his daughters totally out of the press, as apparently is their right based on what some of you say.
I'm saddened and shocked !! Violence in OUR city? I have a rough up with the security in the Cathedral when I was there in February, because I got very emotional and cried ALOUD. They asked me to leave and at the door, said I shouldn't go back there....... and I didn't. I stayed in Santiago for 3 months after this incident and went to service at the Franciscan Monestry which was very gratifying. Its sad that pilgrims are sometimes treated badly, but I take everything in my STRIDE. Sometimes people (tourist sort) ask if they can take a photo of me and if I feel good, I might agree. But not always. I had a great time in Santiago, the pilgrims' house folks were amazing (((oops... haven't thanked them ... yet))) and made some great great friends. Its all happening..... Buen CaminoLast week I walked into Santiago with a Spanish man whom I had met whilst walking. As we approached the steps to go down to the Praza de Obradoiro in front of the cathedral we heard and saw a man dressed traditionally playing the bagpipes. My friend said he would like to take a photo of him. The bagpipe player stopped playing and turned his back to my friend. When my friend asked him why, the bagpipe player became aggressive, swore at my friend and knocked him to the ground with a vicious punch to the jaw.
We went immediately to the police and laid a charge of assault which, when it went to court was successful.
The police had urged my friend to lay the charge as this bagpipe player was well known as being aggressive to pilgrims, none of whom had ever laid a charge, therefore the police were powerless to act against him.
Besides receiving a fine and having to pay the costs of the court this man's name is now on the penal register as a vicious, aggressive person. Should he act in such a way again the police will now be able to act promptly against him.
Be wary of him if you come across him.
You "can understand why he became violent when challenged" because he deals with hundreds maybe thousands of people who are ignorant.... Is that an excuse for a physical attack on someone? I am not a busker, but it does not seem unreasonable that such a person would know that they will need to deal with hundreds, maybe thousands of ignorant people. I expect it's an occupational hazard. That bagpiper should find a more refined venue than the street if he is so easily affronted and cannot contain his anger. I'm surprised he is allowed to continue.I am a busker; that is I play music on the streets. I do this freely and if people enjoy what I am doing, if they smile as they pass or stop and listen I am happy. If they leave a tip so much the better. I am giving freely and they are giving freely. There is a spiritual exchange going on whether they smile or tip. Taking my picture without consideration in return is something that goes beyond this exchange. I feel insulted, as if I were no more than a decoration, an animal in a zoo. I tolerate it, as part of the price that one must pay to do what one must do. It happens.
I saw this bagpipe player at the cathedral. And yes he did turn his back on photographers that tried to snap his picture as they passed without throwing down a euro or two. I understood what he was doing and why. In turning his back he is telling you "hey, this is not part of the deal." I also understand why he became violent when challenged. He deals with hundreds, maybe thousands of people every day who are ignorant and want to take and not give. To challenge his decision is an affront. For the music, a genuine smile is enough. For a photograph, you are overstepping the boundaries if you do not first indicate your appreciation by tipping the performer.
When you encounter a busker that is charming enough to elicit your desire to photograph or even video, tip first. You won't have a problem. Take this as a general rule wherever you go in the world.
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