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I have a female friend in England who is a hiker and has found it so common that she even has a ready made response "Oh, that looks like a penis but much much smaller" and then she walks on ...
The number 112 will work even if you don't have the coverage or credit on you phone!!!!!Call the police – the best number to use is 112 which covers all of Spain (and much of Europe) and which has operators who speak English.
Not one to dampen any humour nor desirious of inducing any fear, but having near a couple of decades as a police officer, I can say with far too much experience that every serious offender started off their criminality somewhere, often with seemingly minor offensive behaviour. "Flashers" value the 'shock' value of their exposure actions and often become bolder and get more cunning over-time, particularly with a nomadic audience such as that on the Caminos. Cannot stress enough the importance of awareness and encourage caution on this issue. Even seemingly trivial pieces of information are so valuable to paint an often blank canvas of this type of offender. Your report to local police may just save someone a tonne of grief and trauma.
Cheers
It's like with magpies and snakes. You need to stop and bow politely.
Peregrina2000, not all of us are Spanish or Englishspeaking, I guess that even if I have learnt some English, I would have a problem with reporting to the 112 in English, it is not the vocabulary I learnt in my English studies. And with my lowfearconcern about flashers, since I have met a lot of them in Norway, I guess I wouldn't bother trying to convince a local policeman in Spain that I have been offended. But I see the point of ACT of course, but it might be a fence to climb to report. Fresh in mind my visit to the local police when I was robbed on the return from one of my first caminoes.
...
Does anyone know if you need the "+34" country code before the 112?
for those of use using a international travel plan on their phone...
I have done that a couple of times too.Mind you if there were any cars parked in really unusual places or doing anything that made me feel uncomfortable I took a pic of the number plate.
I am sending love and kindness to those that have been the unfortunate victim of these crimes. We should never accept or normalise this behaviour, regardless of our views or vulnerability levels. Nor should we have to worry about experiencing this either taking a walk around the block or across a country. Please, please, please, tell people of your experiences at the next villiage. Trust me, talk of this in any villiage or town gets around and will make it's way to police. At the very least tell the person/s where you are staying and ask them to contact police on your behalf. Leave your contact details in case police want to talk to you. Again, I assure you, however remote you think your sliver of information may be, it may just be that missing jigsaw puzzle piece that stops another person becoming a victim.
Thank you!NOTE FROM THE MODERATORS: Though some may treat incidents like these lightly and with sarcasm, others are quite traumatized. Comments should be sensitive to that fact. Here are some suggestions:
There is continuing concern about incidents affecting female pilgrims. We reiterate the advice given by a number of pilgrim associations and the Spanish authorities:
Before you set out, programme the emergency number 112 into your telephone.
Consider downloading this App issued by the Spanish government:
https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/info/info.xhtml
The app allows anyone in Spain to send an alert from a mobile device "smartphone'"straight to the police..
If you feel threatened or uncomfortable or if you are assaulted in any way TRY TO REMOVE yourself to a place of safety immediately
Call the police – the best number to use is 112 which covers all of Spain (and much of Europe) and which has operators who speak English.
And please, please, REPORT all incidents to the police. Too many of these unlawful aggressions are never reported, which means that the full extent of the problem is hidden from the authorities.
NOTE FROM THE MODERATORS: Though some may treat incidents like these lightly and with sarcasm, others are quite traumatized. Comments should be sensitive to that fact. Here are some suggestions:
There is continuing concern about incidents affecting female pilgrims. We reiterate the advice given by a number of pilgrim associations and the Spanish authorities:
Before you set out, programme the emergency number 112 into your telephone.
Consider downloading this App issued by the Spanish government:
https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/info/info.xhtml
The app allows anyone in Spain to send an alert from a mobile device "smartphone'"straight to the police..
If you feel threatened or uncomfortable or if you are assaulted in any way TRY TO REMOVE yourself to a place of safety immediately
Call the police – the best number to use is 112 which covers all of Spain (and much of Europe) and which has operators who speak English.
And please, please, REPORT all incidents to the police. Too many of these unlawful aggressions are never reported, which means that the full extent of the problem is hidden from the authorities.
Why would you not take the person’s photo?Yesterday a peregrine was confronted with a man who exposed himself. This happened between Sarria and Ferreiros. She said to him she would call the police and he said 'no police' and went away. She was ok and thats all I know.
From what I have read you are correct but let's give emphasis on there are exceptions. Even an expert in the field would not be able to tell with certainty within a short period of time and when in shock whether the pervert in front of her might transition into a rage if humiliated.Generally speaking (though there are exceptions), people who expose themselves to others represent no physical/sexual threat to their victims.
But it may also cause humiliation leading to violence. Doing one's best to show no shock would also reduce the pervert's satisfaction and is probably the better course. Also, while laughing or belittling the man may work for a victim in one situation, a number of incidents like this might possibly, over time, convert the pervert into a more dangerous type.They count on the shock value for their satisfaction. Pointing and laughing is one sure way to remove said satisfaction.
I tried very hard to find advice on the web from knowledgeable people on what to do in a flashing situation but I was just swamped with so many pages of light-heartedness to be able to find any.Like Doctor Phil, I have "more degrees than a thermometer" and have considerable knowledge in this area.
Welcome to the "Club" !Why would you not take the person’s photo?
Wouldn’t that help the police identify the person, or is it too dangerous and one might get knocked on the head for your trouble.
I’m new to the forum and have lots of questions..do people carry a whistle?
I think a whistle is a good idea. Many Osprey packs (if not all) have a whistle built into the buckle of the sternum/chest strap.do people carry a whistle?
Some advice from a police officer is much appreciated. What is the safest/best way to proceed in such situation? I've heard, it's best to shout some insults at a flasher, but is it really? What about taking photograph? It may be useful to identify the offender, but may cause aggression.Not one to dampen any humour nor desirious of inducing any fear, but having near a couple of decades as a police officer, I can say with far too much experience that every serious offender started off their criminality somewhere, often with seemingly minor offensive behaviour. "Flashers" value the 'shock' value of their exposure actions and often become bolder and get more cunning over-time, particularly with a nomadic audience such as that on the Caminos. Cannot stress enough the importance of awareness and encourage caution on this issue. Even seemingly trivial pieces of information are so valuable to paint an often blank canvas of this type of offender. Your report to local police may just save someone a tonne of grief and trauma.
Cheers
I've used 112 for other reasons and their response was first-class (language; speed; follow-up).The number 112 will work even if you don't have the coverage or credit on you phone!!!!!
I keep one attached to my jacket zipper pull as well, just in case I need it when I'm not wearing my pack. A person can blow a whistle for a lot longer than she can scream, and it carries farther in wind or hilly terrain.I think a whistle is a good idea. Many Osprey packs (if not all) have a whistle built into the buckle of the sternum/chest strap.
It is NOT a funny or laughing matter.... they target single women or women in 2's. It is actually quite scary as has happened to me 3 times whilst walking alone and all around 8am. Not just flashing but masturbating. Twice it was the same guy who followed me in his car just outside of Coimbra on Caminho Portuguese. The 3rd one was just outside of Santiago... There are numerous accounts of many men assaulting women in this way along the Caminos on the Iberian Peninsula. It's almost like a sense of entitlement !! Yes I reported it to the police but didn't really feel like they cared .... and yes I took a photo of his license plate. Most importantly I alerted all female pilgrims enroute !I am still waiting for my first experience witha Flasher. I can laugh so loud, and take a picture for the Police at the same time.
It is NOT a funny or laughing matter.... they target single women or women in 2's. It is actually quite scary as has happened to me 3 times whilst waling alone and all around 8am. Not just flashing but masturbating. Twice it was the same guy who followed me in his car just outside of Coimbra on Caminho Portuguese. The 3 rd one was just outside of Santiago... There are numerous accounts of many men assaulting women in this way along the caminos on the Iberian Peninsula. It's almost like a sense of entitlement !! Yes I reported it to the police but didn't really feel like they cared ....
I am still waiting for my first experience witha Flasher. I can laugh so loud, and take a picture for the Police at the same time.
It is not a theory. In my 34 years as head instructor at my Aikido & Ki Dojo, I have trained thousands in many aspects of pure defense.
Exhibitionists will rarely take an encounter further if they are not able to draw shock and fear from their victim. It is essential to have the mindset that you can never be a victim.
If it happens, do not acknowledge them in any way beyond disgust and promises to call Police. Get a pic if possible, only for identification. If approached, first walk away, head for safety. On the Camino, I know this can be difficult but it will likely be better to turn around and go back the way you came until finding safety or until finding other peregrinos / peregrinas.
Hope this helps.
Some advice from a police officer is much appreciated. What is the safest/best way to proceed in such situation? I've heard, it's best to shout some insults at a flasher, but is it really? What about taking photograph? It may be useful to identify the offender, but may cause aggression.
Regarding the 112 emergency number, I have read that there are English-speaking operators in Spain, but the only time I ever dialed 112 was in Portugal, during my recent Camino, and I found that they did not have or could not connect me to any English-speaking, or even Spanish-speaking operator. I am fluent in Spanish, but speak no Portuguese. The operator was patient with my communication efforts, though and eventually help was sent (I foolishly fell into the bush of blackberries and a big stone pinned my leg to the ground so I could not move - quite a story for a black comedy film).
In Spain, the threshold issue for "flashing" is whether it is illegal! You can have all the evidence in the world on offensive behavior, but there has to be a criminal act for any real results. The police may roust flashers, but I think that they are never prosecuted just for nudity (unless in the presence of minors or incompetents).As a police officer, and prosecutor the best form of information and evidence is photographic, video, and contemporaneous notes and observations.
This advice is good (as long as the photo is done without drama) but your earlier statement about laughing so loud was contrary to it.If it happens, do not acknowledge them in any way beyond disgust and promises to call Police. Get a pic if possible, only for identification. If approached, first walk away, head for safety. On the Camino,
In Spain, the threshold issue for "flashing" is whether it is illegal! You can have all the evidence in the world on offensive behavior, but there has to be a criminal act for any real results. The police may roust flashers, but I think that they are never prosecuted just for nudity (unless in the presence of minors or incompetents).
Thank you for the info as it is so important to warn other women. I should have posted these dreadful experiences last Oct when I arrived home but chose to bury it. It is so important to have an open conversation about this. Information is power.I was flashed a few weeks ago on the Norte after Santander and before Santa Cruz de Bezana, but maybe I should put that in a different thread. He has apparently done that to 6-7 young peregrinas this summer, never to peregrinos. We did contact the police, and they did come. I don't know if he's been caught yet or not. I'll see if I can find out.
Not one to dampen any humour nor desirious of inducing any fear, but having near a couple of decades as a police officer, I can say with far too much experience that every serious offender started off their criminality somewhere, often with seemingly minor offensive behaviour. "Flashers" value the 'shock' value of their exposure actions and often become bolder and get more cunning over-time, particularly with a nomadic audience such as that on the Caminos. Cannot stress enough the importance of awareness and encourage caution on this issue. Even seemingly trivial pieces of information are so valuable to paint an often blank canvas of this type of offender. Your report to local police may just save someone a tonne of grief and trauma.
Cheers
I think that puts you in a very dangerous position. If he doesn't want to be "found out", you never know what will unfold. I would take the standard protocol of getting out and reporting and warning other pilgrims.I am certainly sorry for the traumatic experiences of you and anyone else. I take it as an encounter that the assailant will not forget, because of how it will go very wrong for them. This comes from committing to myself a very long time ago to never allow myself to be a victim. That is what they are really out there for, to make victims of unsuspecting women.
I think that puts you in a very dangerous position. If he doesn't want to be "found out", you never know what will unfold. I would take the standard protocol of getting out and reporting and warning other pilgrims.
I'm not saying don't do anything about it and remain a victim. Just saying pay attention to your intuition and be smart about how you react. That's all.From the responses received on this topic, I find there are two sides, and that was expected. There are those who have had violent experiences and those who have not. I pray for those who have lived through violence and am very happy that it was survived. Yes, it can be traumatic.
For those who have not seen violence, I pray that you never do.
For me, I have seen violence, too much. I minded my own business throughout my life. And I did that too much as well. One night, I witnessed a man beating a woman, and I did nothing to stop it. That guilt remains with me now and will remain with me. That event changed me. I felt that I was a victim also. I could never remove the pain inflicted on her. I could not go back and stop it from happeneing.
When I found Aikido & Ki, it was being taught by my own church Minister. He retired a few years later and passed the school on to me to continue. Over the decades, I went through a number of stages, including humbleness, confidence and then back to being very humble, knowing the power and extent of my growing abilities.
Aikido is a purely defensive art. It teaches no offensive movements or ideoogy.
Being a victim is giving control over. It is not a state that anyone wishes. In the case of an exhibitionist, first, the assailant suffers from a mental disorder. If knowing exatly what to do when presented with a flasher, consult local authorities. I have done that annually since 1983, as well as extensive studies into the cause, diagnosis and prescribed treatment of this and many other disorders that can germinate the potential for violent behavior. Diagnostic and Statistical Manuals III, IV and the most recent Edition V will provide all that information.
Why study psychological disorders so deeply? To understand an attacker before the attack is to ensure a positive outcome. Win / Lose has nothing to do with this. That is the essence of Aikido.
The meaning of Aikido will explain;
Ai - Harmony, working "together."
Ki - inner energy, same as Chi in Chinese, ie, Tai Chi, or life frce
Do - (pronounced doe), way, path, way of living.
In the use of Aikido, I am responsible for the well being of my attacker, to blend with their attacking energy, turn it around to show the error of it and finish with an outcome that does no damage, and promotes understanding.
If it were not being offered by my own Minister when I began training, I may not have continued, to this day. In our many discussions, the topic of Aikido being the most Christian of the martial arts, was a main topic. Kung Fu shares these same values. Most other martial arts are supposed to do the same but get muddied by many things such as personal ego and do not forget Hollywood, not very well known for its grasp of integrity.
To sum up, everything I have contributed to this thread, story, issue, comes from my professional experience which is backed by decades of psychological research and understanding, and the continuous instruction from Police Authorities. Will I laugh? Likely. It is recommended to shame the asailant and demean his actions. Would that anger and promote an attack? Not likely. Attack is a very large step for an exhibitionist. Regardless of how anyone chooses to handle this type of issue on the Camnio or anywhere else, understand first that the assailant is in need of psychological help. There is no shame in having a mental disorder and there should be no shame in it being recognized and treated.
Reading these accounts makes me quite shocked and saddened that this has happened to so many peregrinas! I think that next time I do the camino I will take a whistle and definitely program that number into my phone. Also thank you for sharing the informatinon about 112. I did not have any flashing incidents thank Goodness but will know to be more wary in the future.
I did encounter a local cow shepherd, I guess he was with his horse and his two dogs on the ascent of O'Cebreiro. I often exchanged words with locals I ran into and had only had good experiences up until then. He was an older man. He asked me if I didn’t have a “companero” and if I was “solitera” and I made the mistake of saying yes. He started going on about making love in the countryside (hacer amor en el campo) and how life is short and you shouldn't be alone and how it’s good for health and good for your camino and stuff or at least I thought that was what he was saying (my Spanish is not very good). I was laughing along for a while but he kept going on and on and I started wondering if he was propositioning me. I finally said I needed to continue walking and he wished me a Buen Camino and I kept walking on.
I didn't necessarily feel unsafe but it was a stretch where I was completely alone and it did make me feel quite vulnerable. There were several stretches, particularly in the early morning before dawn where I was alone where I did feel a bit vulnerable. I think having a whistle would make me feel a bit better. Generally though it seemed there were usually people around and I knew there was a town or some type of civilization coming up.
Thank you for these posting these warnings.
I'm not saying don't do anything about it and remain a victim. Just saying pay attention to your intuition and be smart about how you react. That's all.
I also encountered this man in the the same area, same conversation. I am fluent in Spanish and that is indeed what he was saying. I also started to feel very uncomfortable and just then a group of three pilgrims reached us and I walked off, looking back more freuently than usual. This was in June of this year.
You are so bang on! Marking or making rude remarks could get somebody very hurt.Not one to dampen any humour nor desirious of inducing any fear, but having near a couple of decades as a police officer, I can say with far too much experience that every serious offender started off their criminality somewhere, often with seemingly minor offensive behaviour. "Flashers" value the 'shock' value of their exposure actions and often become bolder and get more cunning over-time, particularly with a nomadic audience such as that on the Caminos. Cannot stress enough the importance of awareness and encourage caution on this issue. Even seemingly trivial pieces of information are so valuable to paint an often blank canvas of this type of offender. Your report to local police may just save someone a tonne of grief and trauma.
Cheers
As a police officer, and prosecutor the best form of information and evidence is photographic, video, and contemporaneous notes and observations. That is, notes taken by the witness as soon as possible. As soon as it is safe to do so, stop and write it all out in anyway you can. Note the time, date and place (gps readings are great) car description, colour, make and model, registration details etc. Note if it has damage or something that makes it stand out. Write it all up asap as you will forget and the details will get murky. The smallest detail can help police so much. With an offender, try memorising from head to toe and back again. Age, clothes, tattoos, scars, accent, words used etc and if your unfortunate enough to be so close, any smells.
Now thats all great from the safety of a cops point of view and any investigator will greatly appreciate it as your making their job so much easier.
BUT.... you have NO idea where the offenders mental health status is at. Nor their intention, ability, or if they are under the influenced of drug or alcohol. Taking a photo may just snap them as they would be concerned about your ability to now identify them. So please make YOUR safety the priority. Get as far away from the situation as possible. Never laugh, point, or draw attention to the fact you saw them. Do any photography discretely. Laughing or even looking at some people can make them very angry and unpredictable. As a solo female traveller, how I react in one situation could be totally different in another. Don't let fear of others behaviour, stop you doing anything. Just be conscious and aware of it, just as you would with any other crime and again REPORT REPORT REPORT IT..
Cheers Tanya
P.S. My lovely daughter and I start from SJPP 1st week of May 18. Happy for anyone nervous to walk our way
Well, hello all.
I posted about similar incidents that I had during my recent Camino (Portuguese route)
Been a month since I came back. I don't think about it anymore but still it is traumatic.
My love towards Camino is still intact but it is sad that I don't see Camino in the same way as before.
I will be better prepared for any possible flashers on my next Camino. Who said they are harmless? Well, I don't quite agree with that. People who decide to take time to walk the Camino have already made one of the big decisions in their lives (I think) and walking every step on the Camino is not quite the same as walking back home and suddenly Boom, there they are, flashing to these serious life meaning seekers, meditating while walking, full of ideas and thoughts in their heads. Maybe I sound like exaggerating but I am not.
This is not a mere disturbance nor annoying incidents. It is a serious crime to intrude upon someone who is possibly trying to create the whole different world in their mind and this visual shocks and potential thoughts of being raped and killed if the flasher wants for whatever reasons should be considered as a serious crime.
I wish all the pilgrims out there a safe journey please.
This doesn't apply to me as I happen not to carry a phone. I don't carry a phone when I travel..Please note that in Spain (and I would imagine in Portugal as well, but cannot confirm that), the emergency number has English-speaking operators handy, as well as in every European language, so you need not worry about trying to report in Spanish.
@peregrina2000 advice is spot on. Even if you don't call 112 or file formal report of the incident to Guardia Civil/Policia Municipal at least talk to bar owners, albergue hospitalera/os etc. Spanish are very proud of being such tourist destination as is and especially proud of the Camino(s) they won't let these kind of things happening in vicinity of their villages or towns. They really do have profound sense of honor.
Many many years ago, when I was a young sola vagabond, I encountered flashers all the time in my travels. I happened upon these guys on buses, in cities, on boats, in remote rural regions. Their exhibitionism seemed very self-centered, like I was just a prop. It was titillating and turned them on to do this risky thing. I didn't get the sense that it had anything to do, really, with me... I was just the audience. I rolled my eyes and walked on. I didn't have the sense that these guys would ever move onto assaulting me.
Times have changed and we are understandably less accepting. This behaviour is not appropriate. Report it in the next village you visit and give a description.
But don't let it ruin your trip.
This doesn't apply to me as I happen not to carry a phone. I don't carry a phone when I travel..
Thank you, I don't think laughing or pointing etc. is a good response. Walk away as quickly as possible without responding would I think be a better response, and what I've done when confronted by a flasher.Not one to dampen any humour nor desirious of inducing any fear, but having near a couple of decades as a police officer, I can say with far too much experience that every serious offender started off their criminality somewhere, often with seemingly minor offensive behaviour. "Flashers" value the 'shock' value of their exposure actions and often become bolder and get more cunning over-time, particularly with a nomadic audience such as that on the Caminos. Cannot stress enough the importance of awareness and encourage caution on this issue. Even seemingly trivial pieces of information are so valuable to paint an often blank canvas of this type of offender. Your report to local police may just save someone a tonne of grief and trauma.
Cheers
Thanks.Ok, sorry I have got the wrong person, I was thinking of the one near the wine fountain. I will delete my post and then this one.
Absolutely. Thank you for mentioning that to remind us.Please do not take these incidents lightly. The evidence is that a proportion of “flashers” will go on to commit much more serious acts. Their offending can escalate as they become more confident.
Please do not take these incidents lightly. The evidence is that a proportion of “flashers” will go on to commit much more serious acts. Their offending can escalate as they become more confident.
I repeat my warning that a proportion of flashers do go on to commit more serious acts. .
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