Peter Cannon
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- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2017
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Though sometimes while you are signing the clipboard another girl is pickpocketing you while you are distracted.
As two of us left Sarria on 30th June we were approached by a couple of girls in a field purporting to be collecting for a new school for deaf children. We signed our names on their sheet, handed over a donation of 10 euro and went on our way as the girls extracted further donation from another pilgrim.
As I walked I wondered about this event and as I think on it I come to the conclusion that we were conned. Oh well. No harm done !
Obviously they were eating pretty good.five years later, and they are still operating the area. i even saw them, or their gang, in SdC a couple weeks ago, and as far back as Biduedo (near O Cebreiro) once...
photo is from last year, being stopped by the guardia civil (police) near Sarria. no arrest made and they were told to move on; which they did, only to resurface the following day
pain in the bum and not nice people
View attachment 34741
So, I'm thinking I'd hit them with some of the alphabet in sign language, courtesy of a speech pathologist I once dated (don't ask, it's not a pretty story). If they can't respond in sign language (not that most of us would know anyhow) just walk away. Then again, what's a cople of Euros?As two of us left Sarria on 30th June we were approached by a couple of girls in a field purporting to be collecting for a new school for deaf children. We signed our names on their sheet, handed over a donation of 10 euro and went on our way as the girls extracted further donation from another pilgrim.
As I walked I wondered about this event and as I think on it I come to the conclusion that we were conned. Oh well. No harm done !
But one thing I have wondered is how 'voluntary' their work is.
This is what worries me about those girls. I wonder just how desperate they are, and if anyone out there is trying to help them.Gang-masters will usually set a 'target' for daily earnings. Violence, or the threat of derogation to another income stream such as prostitution or drug-trafficking are the usual incentives. The girl crying in the rain in the late night streets of Santiago, Paris or London may well have a specific story to tell but is likely to be short of expectations and just scared to go home.
As two of us left Sarria on 30th June we were approached by a couple of girls in a field purporting to be collecting for a new school for deaf children. We signed our names on their sheet, handed over a donation of 10 euro and went on our way as the girls extracted further donation from another pilgrim.
As I walked I wondered about this event and as I think on it I come to the conclusion that we were conned. Oh well. No harm done !
Next year my daughter might be walking with me, that or hanging out on the beach while I walk lolSo, I'm thinking I'd hit them with some of the alphabet in sign language, courtesy of a speech pathologist I once dated (don't ask, it's not a pretty story). If they can't respond in sign language (not that most of us would know anyhow) just walk away. Then again, what's a cople of Euros?
Than better only to learn one word in every language. NoWell, Spain has not only many spoken languages, but also many sign languages. Better start practicing!
NYC & Los Angeles subways, streets, malls, have so many cons: deaf, blind, homeless, school fund-raising projects, and every now and again, someone says, they have no fund and just want money. Some are legit, but those are few and far between.
I wonder just how desperate they are, and if anyone out there is trying to help them.
The girl crying in the rain in the late night streets of Santiago, Paris or London may well have a specific story to tell but is likely to be short of expectations and just scared to go home.
Exactly.There are people begging today who even ten years ago would never have dreamed of it. Those who are forced into it as a daily activity by circumstance or by administrative rejection are not quite the same as the typical professional beggars used to be last century, though these too still exist.
Off topic, but THAT is a very good wish! Please pay it forward, everyone.I wish all pilgrims were as generous at the donativo albergue--even without the theatre.
But the sad truth is that the % proportion of those in genuine need is increasing.
The scammers are one thing, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to tell the difference, if there even is one any more, between those begging (simply, without trying to con you) on a daily basis as a main source of revenue, and those needing to resort to it from time to time from not quite sufficient regular resources. There are people begging today who even ten years ago would never have dreamed of it. Those who are forced into it as a daily activity by circumstance or by administrative rejection are not quite the same as the typical professional beggars used to be last century, though these too still exist.
They are neither hearing nor speech impaired. Saw them being briefed in a cafe - they speak perfectly well when not "begging"So, I'm thinking I'd hit them with some of the alphabet in sign language, courtesy of a speech pathologist I once dated (don't ask, it's not a pretty story). If they can't respond in sign language (not that most of us would know anyhow) just walk away. Then again, what's a cople of Euros?
Travelling well too, high end VW Golf last year!Obviously they were eating pretty good.
The official, Castilliano alphabet is pretty much the same as ASL IIRC plus some specials like ñ obviously.Well, Spain has not only many spoken languages, but also many sign languages. Better start practicing!
The official, Castilliano alphabet is pretty much the same as ASL IIRC plus some specials like ñ obviously.
I cannot believe that they are still operating on the Camino and still getting away with it. I encountered them outside Villa Franca del Bierzos in 2011. They obviously move around.five years later, and they are still operating the area. i even saw them, or their gang, in SdC a couple weeks ago, and as far back as Biduedo (near O Cebreiro) once...
photo is from last year, being stopped by the guardia civil (police) near Sarria. no arrest made and they were told to move on; which they did, only to resurface the following day
pain in the bum and not nice people
View attachment 34741
Just as an FYI, these same people, actually members of an extended family living in a nice home in the Santiago suburbs, do the same scam in Santiago. Over five years and some 12 trips to Santiago, I have observed the same faces appearing anywhere from Sarria to Santiago.
For the record, none of these folks are actually hearing impaired. IMHO it is shameful to pretend to have a disability that, in doing so, mocks people who DO have this issue to contend with. But, it is what it is.
Over the years, I have asked regularly appearing "buskers" (street performers) across Santiago to tell me about those folks. They have told me far more than I am willing to write here. So, I will describe the symptoms without naming the condition...
Within Santiago, the family members rotate "assignments" and positions around the Cathedral on all sides about every two-hours daily, from approximately 0900 to 1700. The next time you are there, pay close attention to each person. You CAN see the familial resemblance.
However, asking, nay, pan-handling for money is still legal there. If you are daft enough to fall for the con, they are clever enough to accept your "gift."
As many others have noted, and in several threads on this and related cons, truly needy people in Spain, and across most of the EU, have government-provided services and places they can go to for help. I also note, that, most of this extended family wears nicer branded clothing than me, and none appear sick or emaciated.
Very few people in Spain actually need to pan-handle for money. Just bear this in mind. I am NOT, REPEAT NOT suggesting reining in charity. But, please, do reserve true charity for truly needy people.
I hope this helps.
However, I will tell you that YES, my comments DO include the people you refer to around the Cathedral. There appear to me, to be four-generations of relatives working for the "family business."
They have been there like clockwork every day I have also been at Santiago over the past five-years. I have watched the teens grow up, and in the case of one young lady, continue doing her thing whilst sporting a growing pregnancy. She delivered a healthy baby last year (2016). The next time I was there, a few months later, she was back at it, using the baby as a prop. However, I did not see the infant the last time I was there, in May 2017.
BTW, these men and women DO move, about every two-to-three hours, they rotate positions. Only pilgrims, like me, who spend an extended period of time in Santiago whenever possible can observe the patterns and group / family affiliation.
The pilgrim who arrives today and who is gone in 36-hours is not likely to make the connection. THAT is the basis of the scam. If you are not there long enough to recognize he players and the rotation pattern, you are at their convenience.
Gang-masters will usually set a 'target' for daily earnings. Violence, or the threat of derogation to another income stream such as prostitution or drug-trafficking are the usual incentives. The girl crying in the rain in the late night streets of Santiago, Paris or London may well have a specific story to tell but is likely to be short of expectations and just scared to go home.
Another topic for the FAQ Guide we should be writing up...Although I agree with SYates, we have posted warning after warning about these girls - hopefully people will pass the word.
They do move around, also.
I got conned by those young women last September.As two of us left Sarria on 30th June we were approached by a couple of girls in a field purporting to be collecting for a new school for deaf children. We signed our names on their sheet, handed over a donation of 10 euro and went on our way as the girls extracted further donation from another pilgrim.
As I walked I wondered about this event and as I think on it I come to the conclusion that we were conned. Oh well. No harm done !
I hope that was by accident, otherwise .......... bad karmaI stole their pen
I hope that was by accident, otherwise .......... bad karma
His bad karma ? ... or theirs ?
Just before Santiago we came across an extremely bedraggled looking being sitting on the side of the path. I was sufficiently moved by his appearance that I gave him a few Euro. Only afterwards did it occur to me that he seemed healthy enough and not much in need of food. I think I was conned.
These con artists prey on the good nature of Peregrinos it's like they have a selective captive audience to target (shooting fish in a barrel comes to mind). This goes on in every country in the world it's professional begging and those doing it make a very comfortable living from it. Why are the Civil Guardia not arresting them if they are not legit and don't have a permit to request donations? I know a lot of people fall through the cracks in society and those receive my sympathy and help when I donate regularly through legitimate agencies like the St Vincent de Paul.
JappaPappa I think you missed my point. The thread was about two girls a family who have a scam going and by the look of it has been going on for years they claim to e collecting for some deaf association and for that a permit is required at least in Ireland it is. That was my reference to the Civil Guardia this should be checked.
Begging has become a scourge in modern society or should I say professional begging and so legitimate people lose out unfortunately. I have seen programmes where it has become a multi national business with some where funds are sent home to build palatial homes and please don't tell me that this is legit.
You raise some valid points. I disagree with you on more than one, the main one being that you advocate being "respectful" yet with regards to "anyone who approaches me for money, sign this or that petition, lost ring found on the street, money checkers (by phony police),...on and on and on.....," you say, "I don't even look at them." Are you including here the person who might be genuinely down on his luck and in need of a handout? I believe it was one of our forum members who, harkening back to the time when he was in dire financial straits, said that the most hurtful thing about being in need, was being ignored. I'm curious, because I think ignoring someone begging / panhandling on the streets is not really being respectful of that person. There must be a middle ground here.Hello, you can only be conned if you let yourself be conned.
I ignore anyone who approaches me for money, sign this or that petition, lost ring found on the street, money checkers (by phony police),...on and on and on.....
Keep walking. Don't give them the time of the day. I don't even look at them.
Keep wallet in proper safe place. Never flash money. Or leave valuables laying out in A'berg.
Think most on here get the message.... don't let yourself be set up.
At 70+ years old I have never been conned, mugged, pick pocketed, etc. Grew up in Spain.
Travelled the world over.
My dad taught my brother and I to be street smart. To be responsible for our own actions, or lack of action. Not to blame on others our short comings.
Be respectful and responsible.
Seems these basic rules of life are missing from people today.
Some of the problems I read on here are self made.
What effect?The ladies were just after Barbarelo (sp?) after Sarria this morning. I mentioned the Guardia Civil - had a strange effect
... moved away at speed...What effect?
Were they booked for speeding cos they haven't got them for anything else... moved away at speed...
You raise some valid points. I disagree with you on more than one, the main one being that you advocate being "respectful" yet with regards to "anyone who approaches me for money, sign this or that petition, lost ring found on the street, money checkers (by phony police),...on and on and on.....," you say, "I don't even look at them." Are you including here the person who might be genuinely down on his luck and in need of a handout? I believe it was one of our forum members who, harkening back to the time when he was in dire financial straits, said that the most hurtful thing about being in need, was being ignored. I'm curious, because I think ignoring someone begging / panhandling on the streets is not really being respectful of that person. There must be a middle ground here.
Never rains but it pours DonalOff topic, but a ferocious thunderstorm lasting about 30 minutes in Portomarin this afternoon has us all moving at speed to find shelter....
Never said it was. One can acknowledge another's existence by a mere smile or a nod.-- gratuitous financial assistance is not a duty of random passers-by.
Never said it was. One can acknowledge another's existence by a mere smile or a nod.
Risking to be a "so-called do-gooder wanting to have the last say", but I guess the forum would be a boring place if people stopped expressing their personal opinions and feelings. And by the way, it seems to me you are expressing a lot of opinions, before calling upon others to "stop this nonsense". Ultreya !please stop this nonsense and concentrate on the Camino and not about your personal opinions and feelings!!
You raise some valid points. I disagree with you on more than one, the main one being that you advocate being "respectful" yet with regards to "anyone who approaches me for money, sign this or that petition, lost ring found on the street, money checkers (by phony police),...on and on and on.....," you say, "I don't even look at them." Are you including here the person who might be genuinely down on his luck and in need of a handout? I believe it was one of our forum members who, harkening back to the time when he was in dire financial straits, said that the most hurtful thing about being in need, was being ignored. I'm curious, because I think ignoring someone begging / panhandling on the streets is not really being respectful of that person. There must be a middle ground here.
Whoa...... I did say on another thread that we should all be able to rant once in a while, but.......... from where did this come? ....... Wrong thread??I really don't know why so many pilgrims are so defensive of any criticism of the Camino !!!! please we are all adults and we all have our own opinions , so I really do not know why some people think because the have done a Camino or two, any other comments are noir valid and it seems to be condemned to hell. It seems to me that it is only foreignersc who seem to be the total Defenders of the positives and negatives of this great Walk!! . I really don't see any spaniards expressing anything so I don't really know what is the purpose of having these permanent arguments of whether you like the Camino or not. It is a personal choice
I have also done the Camino ! I have walkjed every inch of the 800 km from St Jean and I really don't mind you people who criticize the Camino. I don't know why people are so critical or cynical about any criticism of the Camino. We are all adults, we paid Our Own Way !!! I really I don't know why there is always some of these so-called do-gooders ( think that because they've also done two or three caminos) they have the last say in whatever is to say about this Walk !!
please stop this nonsense and concentrate on the Camino and not about your personal opinions and feelings!!
And thank you for doing this.For me, here at home, the middle ground is to donate to the shelters which serve the homeless and needy. I never give money to those who panhandle, but I have purchased food and given it to those I have met who are hungry. Volunteering at homeless ministries is another way of my reaching the middle ground. I carry business cards with me which contain addresses and phone numbers of these ministries to give to homeless folks and panhandlers i encounter.
For me, here at home, the middle ground is to donate to the shelters which serve the homeless and needy. I never give money to those who panhandle, but I have purchased food and given it to those I have met who are hungry. Volunteering at homeless ministries is another way of my reaching the middle ground. I carry business cards with me which contain addresses and phone numbers of these ministries to give to homeless folks and panhandlers i encounter.
Sadly, there is a degree of corruption in such charities, whereby not all that you give to them will get into the hands of the needy.
The Catholic Ideal of Charity is centred on yourself and on those immediately surrounding you -- those you can see, and talk to, and touch. Including yourself. To provide also for those who are far away is certainly a virtue, but if you're not doing the first it's a bit of an empty one.
Look to your surroundings to learn who is truly in need or just in some temporary crisis, and who is seeking to exploit your good nature. This will be a better solution for this problematic than any ideology.
So it begs the question why has this illegal behaviour not been stopped clearly its taking money under false pretenses ?
Because as annoying as it may be to you, begging for money is not illegal. It may be dishonnest, but as long as you hand over the miney without being coerced to do it while being threatened it is not illegal.So it begs the question why has this illegal behaviour not been stopped clearly its taking money under false pretenses ?
I do not know what the legal situation is in Spain. I live in the UK. I would not automatically assume that the same laws would apply in another country.But they are using the ploy of collecting for a bogus cause taking names etc they must have different rules in Spain because that is definitely illegal in Ireland.
They do. It is easy to get one's shorts in a bunch when the law in other countries is different. The U.S. and the UK have common law. Spain has statutory law. Enforcement priorities differ as well. It likely violates Spanish law to represent yourself as collecting for a charity when you are not, or even falsely claim you are deaf to solicit a donation, do you honestly expect the police to take action? It would not be unreasonable of the police to expect pilgrims to protect themselves with some healthy skepticism when asked for a donation. How helpless do we really need to be in asking "officials" to protect us?But they are using the ploy of collecting for a bogus cause taking names etc they must have different rules in Spain because that is definitely illegal in Ireland.
Because not everybody is savvy. Some people may feel intimidated to donate. Are you suggesting we should all flout the law?They do. It is easy to get one's shorts in a bunch when the law in other countries is different. The U.S. and the UK have common law. Spain has statutory law. Enforcement priorities differ as well. It likely violates Spanish law to represent yourself as collecting for a charity when you are not, or even falsely claim you are deaf to solicit a donation, do you honestly expect the police to take action? It would not be unreasonable of the police to expect pilgrims to protect themselves with some healthy skepticism when asked for a donation. How helpless do we really need to be in asking "officials" to protect us?
We pretty much do. I was going 36 in a 35 mph zone yesterday.Are you suggesting we should all flout the law?
ha ha good oneWe pretty much do. I was going 36 in a 35 mph zone yesterday.
Flout the law? Please. Just walk by. These people ate not flouting the law anymmore than anyone begging for money in your hometown.Because not everybody is savvy. Some people may feel intimidated to donate. Are you suggesting we should all flout the law?
I agree we could debate the rights and wrongs of this forever it is what it is.Flout the law? Please. Just walk by. These people ate not flouting the law anymmore than anyone begging for money in your hometown.
Me thinks this thread has run its course. Bottom line, they are not deaf, probably make quite a bit of money at this talking advantage of our "pilgrim mindset". Just ignore them. It's what we all do at home after all, including to,those in real need.
Flout the law? Please. Just walk by. These people ate not flouting the law anymmore than anyone begging for money in your hometown.
Me thinks this thread has run its course. Bottom line, they are not deaf, probably make quite a bit of money at this talking advantage of our "pilgrim mindset". Just ignore them. It's what we all do at home after all, including to,those in real need.
So it begs the question why has this illegal behaviour not been stopped clearly its taking money under false pretenses ?
JappaPappa I think you missed my point. The thread was about two girls a family who have a scam going and by the look of it has been going on for years they claim to e collecting for some deaf association and for that a permit is required at least in Ireland it is. That was my reference to the Civil Guardia this should be checked.
Begging has become a scourge in modern society or should I say professional begging and so legitimate people lose out unfortunately. I have seen programmes where it has become a multi national business with some where funds are sent home to build palatial homes and please don't tell me that this is legit.
That is a very different sitation and one that gets me very angry. If there is ine thing that gets drilled into anyone working in fundraising for charities, as I do, it's ethics. Oh the humber of times I had to inform my own board of trustees that "no" because it's not ethical, not in line with proper accounting guidelines for charities, what would people say if this made it to the papers, etc. So having people use a charity's name to steal gets my blood boiling....to ask the pilgrims for money in the name of a well-known charity.
Hi Peter - In Santiago last June, outside the Cathedral, I saw two such young women being escorted to the local police station... and the next day the same women were back doing the same. I also witnessed a local middle-aged guy very loudly complainning to two 'deaf and dumb' charity collectors - they gave as good as he was giving them, and I don't think they'd experienced a sudden, miraculous cure for their 'ailment'. From what I saw, the 'charity' collectors are unstoppable, tenascious and no matter what locals or police say or do, they will always be a special part of our Camino ;-) I can only smile at them and wish them a 'good day', when I see them - sometimes they smile backAs two of us left Sarria on 30th June we were approached by a couple of girls in a field purporting to be collecting for a new school for deaf children. We signed our names on their sheet, handed over a donation of 10 euro and went on our way as the girls extracted further donation from another pilgrim.
As I walked I wondered about this event and as I think on it I come to the conclusion that we were conned. Oh well. No harm done !
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