thatchmike
Michael D Thatcher
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Portuguese and 'del Norte'
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Hi there. I am planning to walk the Norte in May/June. If your budget (like mine) allowed you to stay in hotels along the way, would you think differently about this route?I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
I think the one word that defines our experiences on any Camino is “expectations”. On my first (CF 2008)I had no idea what to expect and my joy was limitless. My second 2009 CF I expected something like my first. I was disappointed. The experience was completely different so for my third (CdN 2011) I decided to change it up a bit. The Norte was physically challenging and unique. Again I didn’t know what to expect and I enjoyed it!Thanks, fraluchi, and I forgot the Levante.
And you're right, I have often thought about why I spend so much time and energy to promote the camino and encourage people to walk when in the end I look at the Camino Francés and ask, what has this become? But I'm also not full of myself enough to think that it is my advice and my encouragement that are producing huge waves of increase on the camino. So I guess I'm left with the thought that it's not the numbers themselves that are the "problem" on the Francés to the extent there is one, it's the heightened, almost self-indulgent expectations that come with huge numbers of people who somewhat contradictorily want both an "authentic" or "quaint" experience and at the same time all the creature comforts they get when they travel away from home. If more and more pilgrims are inevitably going to walk, say, the Invierno, maybe our efforts here on the forum will contribute a bit to preserving the "Camino feel" of that glorious route and perhaps staving off the brash commercialism that seems to come hand in hand with increased numbers.
If you pm me I can provide some insight to both routes. I have done the Portuguese 2x the Norte 1 time and the CF 3 times.I am 2+ months back from my first Camino Frances (SJPDP to Muxia) and I now have enough energy to start thinking about my next
Camino...deciding on Camino Portuguese or Camino Norte...biggest problem with deciding is lack of information on Camino Norte.
Question: Has anyone done both the Camino Portuguese and Camino Norte that can compare the both routes?
Question: Any recommended reading or maps on the Camino Norte?
I am 2+ months back from my first Camino Frances (SJPDP to Muxia) and I now have enough energy to start thinking about my next
Camino...deciding on Camino Portuguese or Camino Norte...biggest problem with deciding is lack of information on Camino Norte.
Question: Has anyone done both the Camino Portuguese and Camino Norte that can compare the both routes?
Question: Any recommended reading or maps on the Camino Norte?
I’ve done both. I would suggest the Camino Portuguese first only because the Norte has too much walking on highways which i found aggravating at times... but both have equally as amazing scenery.
Anytime someone rues the amount of pavement on the Norte, I cannot resist urging them to take a look at this thread. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/coastal-alternatives-to-the-nortes-asphalt.49578/
It is not that hard to avoid huge amounts of road walking and to susbsitute it with gorgeous coastal paths. I had a GPS, but mainly in order to find the link from the Camino to the coastal path. Once you’re on the coastal path, it becomes pretty obvious.. And the difference is truly amazing.
Oh i did most of the alternative paths on the Norte and the full coastal route on the Portuguese. Still way more highways on the Norte than the Portuguese.
I loved both, don’t get me wrong if someone tells me they can only do one and which is better as a whole, i still suggest they Portuguese.
Anytime someone rues the amount of pavement on the Norte, I cannot resist urging them to take a look at this thread. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/coastal-alternatives-to-the-nortes-asphalt.49578/
It is not that hard to avoid huge amounts of road walking and to susbsitute it with gorgeous coastal paths. I had a GPS, but mainly in order to find the link from the Camino to the coastal path. Once you’re on the coastal path, it becomes pretty obvious.. And the difference is truly amazing.
I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
really enjoyed this article. Have just returned from walking Camino del Norte from Irun to the Privativo turnoff at Villaviciosa. There IS a culture of being completely uncritical of the Camino which is a bit mindless. I remember saying to a fellow pilgrim, after numerous dangerous road episodes that someday someone will be killed. He said, Well, that’s the Camino!I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
Le Puy you don’t walk on roads! really different from del Norte!Greg, I think if you liked the Le Puy you will love the Norte. It has more in common with the Le Puy than with the Francės. I can't comment on the Portuguese because I have not walked it.
Thank you for your post. My wife and I are walking the Camino Portugues in 4 weeks (our second camino) and I will return to walk in the spring / summer of 202 on my own. I am considering the norte route and your comments are helpful. I prefer to avoid as much road travel as possible as this really takes away from the experience.I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
Hello Peregrina2000,
I really appreciate your posts. I have downloaded your PDF of the alternative paths to avoid hiking on asphalt. I hiked the entire CF last year and loved it. I also hiked the CP from Porto and I didn't enjoy the first few days only because of the traffic/asphalt. If there really is more asphalt on the CN as compared with the CF and CP, then I am very interested in avoiding the asphalt. I have extra time. I begin my hike in early July so I need to start planning my route. What percent of the entire CN would you estimate is hiking on asphalt next to traffic? And I wonder if the alternative paths to avoid asphalt will be too isolated for my comfort level. I don't want to hike alone on remote paths. Also, I don't have a GPS unit, per se, and I didn't plan on having a cellular phone plan, but I have an iPhone and I have always used the app "Maps.me" and never been lost (yet!). Again, my biggest concern is being isolated and alone while hiking.
Thank you for your time spent posting on this forum. I really appreciate your efforts!
I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
You must have a time machine!I plan to depart Irun on or about the 28th of April 2019.
really enjoyed this article. Have just returned from walking Camino del Norte from Irun to the Privativo turnoff at Villaviciosa. There IS a culture of being completely uncritical of the Camino which is a bit mindless. I remember saying to a fellow pilgrim, after numerous dangerous road episodes that someday someone will be killed. He said, Well, that’s the Camino!
I was also struck by the lack of any religious signs, references, open churches etc that would normally mark a pilgrim route. Where are they? It made be doubt whether I was on a genuinely historic route.
Nothing wrong with asking some questions! Tom, Cornwall.
Don't think, just walk.I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
Which one in Santa Cruz please did you like and are the others names of accommodations or of villages....excuse my ignorance...just starting research!I enjoyed Albergues and other Accommodations in Orio, Markina, Liendo, Guemes, Santa Cruz de Bezana, Pendueles, Casa Belen, Baamonde, and Miraz to name a few.
Ultreya,
Joe
Way too negative...I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
Which one in Santa Cruz please did you like and are the others names of accommodations or of villages....excuse my ignorance...just starting research!
Hey Johann, I think I met you on C. Frances last year! I was reading this thread because I am going back next year with a mid- to late-May start, and trying to decide between another CF or CN. Would likely start in Bilbao and carry on to Muxia. Some of the posts make CN sound daunting but I think I’m up to it.Way too negative...
The stretch between Irun and Bilbao is the most difficult, so by starting at Bilbao you should have no problems.Hey Johann, I think I met you on C. Frances last year! I was reading this thread because I am going back next year with a mid- to late-May start, and trying to decide between another CF or CN. Would likely start in Bilbao and carry on to Muxia. Some of the posts make CN sound daunting but I think I’m up to it.
Interesting read. I do not disagree with it except you missed saying the landscape is very beautiful. The coastal views are spectacular. So are the lush green mountains. In spring the flowers were amazing. That in itself is a good reason to walk the Norte. It is also the reason I would not have wanted to miss walking from Irun to San Sebastien or the other "difficult" bits.
In some ways the path and albergues and coffee "stops" are similar to the Camino Frances as it was when I first walked 14 years ago. Since then the infrastructure on the Frances has improved out of sight - to me the current infrastructure is amazing. I suspect that in time the same is likely to happen on the Norte, especially as local entrepreneurs find ways of supplementing their income. There also used to be more road walking on the Camino Frances but over time safety of pilgrims has become a priority and that of necessity involves less road walking. Although that is less likely, unless paths are re-route
Did this camino in 2003. I was aware of all the "supposing problems" nothing new there. It was like any other camino, even then. (I was 73 my wife 74 then) We have done many. BUT NEVER COMPARE ANY CAMINO WITH THE FRANCES (touristy over the top to the limit)I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
We walked the Norte in 2017, as our first Camino, and cherish the experience. So different from the experiences of our friends who have walked the other more popular Caminos. The more rustic and less developed countryside is its charm. It has an authenticity to it that wrapped us in its arms. We were in in our mid sixties when we did it, found it challenging physically in the Basque country, but soon walked ourselves fit and had no body issues except minor blisters.I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
Churches are also closed in Spain because of its violent history, especially during and after the Civil War.First, churches are rarely open in most of Spain, except for services. There are insurance considerations here, owing to a few decades of intense church furnishings theft in the 70s and 80s. However, the key is usually available from a neighbour-- if a telephone is not posted, then just ask at the nearest bar. There are certainly plenty of them and lists of the interesting ones can be found on Spanish wikipedia for each pueblo, or from the provincial turismo. There are several remarkable monasteries along the way, particularly at Cobreces, Sobrado dos Monxes, and Zenarruza (all with pilgrims' albergues). A secondary factor is that, while the Spanish bishops have focussed their pilgrim-focussed efforts on the Camino Francese, they have not (yet) done so on the del Norte. For this reason, most of the smaller pueblos do not have daily masses, and it will be hit-and-miss for the churchgoing pilgrim. And, as was the case on the Francese until recently, times of services in Spain are apparently secret! one has to make an effort to find out when they will be. Ask at the bar, as with most other questions you will have.
I will probably sound like a broken record, but there are many beautiful off-road coastal alternatives. You will need a GPS, not because the paths on the coast are hard to follow, but because it’s not always obvious how to get from the official camino to the coastal alternative.The Norte is overwhelmingly on asphalt road, some of them very busy and genuinely dangerous.
The churches were closed “because of thieves” I was told.
The Churches in England are closed because of thieves; because of our violent history (you should see what Cromwell's army did to a couple of my local churches); because of pure neglect leading to buildings being declared unsafe and, because no-one locally is prepared to accept the responsibility of admitting visitors and supervising their visit. There is only so much personal abuse you can take while you explain that no, there isn't a toilet and, yes, that is what a medieval wall-painting looks like when its been chipped at with hammers, whitewashed, plastered over, re-discovered in 1955 and subjected to passionate heavy breathing and some obscene graffiti since.Churches are also closed in Spain because of it’s violent history
After the Civil War most churches were open in Spain but in the 60's and 70's thousands of churches were robbed. The most famous robber was Erik "the Belgian".Churches are also closed in Spain because of it’s violent history, especially during and after the Civil War.
Le Puy is SO different from del Norte! But maybe the Frances is so different from either.Le Puy you don’t walk on roads! really different from del Norte!
And yet French churches are almost always open to the public. It adds to a feeling of relaxation!The Churches in England are closed because of thieves; because of our violent history (you should see what Cromwell's army did to a couple of my local churches); because of pure neglect leading to buildings being declared unsafe and, because no-one locally is prepared to accept the responsibility of admitting visitors and supervising their visit. There is only so much personal abuse you can take while you explain that no, there isn't a toilet and, yes, that is what a medieval wall-painting looks like when its been chipped at with hammers, whitewashed, plastered over, re-discovered in 1955 and subjected to passionate heavy breathing and some obscene graffiti since.
St Andrew's at Edburton has been closed since someone nicked the Plate sometime in the 1980's. Why bother locking the door after the Plate has been melted is a topic for another forum.
Coombes has its beautiful 1100C paintings described, recently, as "dull & faded". Oh well
Not always. Churches built before 1906 belong to the state and are administered IIRC by the prefecture. Many of them are staffed with a concierge, often a well-educated history graduate, desperately pleased to have a pensioned job in their field. I have had some extraordinary conversations with these learned young people. However, some prefectures have decided to have the concierge serve several churches, so they bicycle furiously to be there for the opening hours for the church.And yet French churches are almost always open to the public. It adds to a feeling of relaxation!
I think your overthinking it and making a lot of assumptions. I walked the Camino Norte and found it a great experience, socially and culturally. To each his/her own.I walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
I´m starting to fear Irun to Santiago but will go anyway.I think your overthinking it and making a lot of assumptions. I walked the Camino Norte and found it a great experience, socially and culturally. To each his/her own.
Im not sure what to do now... I hate tourist things and crowds so wanted the North but if its roadside it defeats the object of going coastal and will be dangerous for my dogI walked the Camino del Norte from Irún to Santiago during September, October 2015. This was my second Camino, having walked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to Santiago in 2013. Like many others, my choice to walk a different Camino was made on the basis of seeing a different side of Spain on a Camino that was not as crowded as the Camino Frances. I have since learnt that this is a very common reason for walking the coastal route.
As I walked, I discovered many things that might have influenced my decision to walk the Camino del Norte and which I had not seen on the Forum discussions (or if they were there, they were diffused across many conversation threads). This is my attempt to bring some of these issues together so that others may be better informed before making a decision to “head North”.
I know that we are all are enthusiasts of the Camino, and it feels somehow wrong to write stuff that is not necessarily complementary, but I am trying to be both balanced and thorough here. Finally, let me add a caveat. These are my views, which exist within a spectrum of views from people that have walked the Camino del Norte. Others may disagree with specific comments or judgements, and I look forward to a good discussion in the comments.
Because of the 10,000 character limit on posts, I have attached a .pdf file containing the full document.
I saw it was old because of all the mountains of comments, I´d assume the condition and infastructure has worsened in time not get better right? Or was there a renovation or as the PDF says a new norte route made along the river?@DearKat and @Bunclody1
We leave this thread open because it contains a lot of useful information about the Norte, but a warning - it was started in 2015.
Look at the date at the top of each post before assuming the post is current.
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