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And members will be aware that at the first sign of any attempt to turn this into a "True Pilgrim" thread will be met with ire (and points) [Moderator Hat On]
Do you mean a hat like the true pilgrims wore? (Just testing.And members will be aware that at the first sign of any attempt to turn this into a "True Pilgrim" thread will be met with ire (and points) [Moderator Hat On]
You and I have the same split personality disorderNo worries. I know already that I am a true pilgrim. On the even days. that is. On the odd days I use another definition for the word pilgrim.
Thats no pilgrim he does not have a 50kg back pack
Easy question. And it's nothing to do with being a pilgrim or not.am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft.
Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?
I am a pilgrim: a traveler who is on a journey. And who knows or has care of where that journey may take me but me?
What is the definition of a pilgrim?
in math there was no fair but a zero for balanceBetter than, worse than, equal to
equality brings out complicated formula for complex problemany form of comparing oneself to someone else
very true... we see right infront of us but we don't look.but the solution is easier than we can imagine
Nah, maths makes everything easy to understand, without confusing words and way too many of them, and that's really cool:
View attachment 48281
That is the best answer yet
Read the OP's question again. That's not in the assignment.hmmm
what about not on camino + on foot?
I think one needs a thicker skin to survive the camino (or life). It is way too "snowflake" to be worrying about what others think about your camino motivation!not being what met their concept of what a pilgrim should be
Me too - likewise! ---)I am not a true pilgrim, just a woman who loves walking the caminos for a variety of wonderful reasons which I've posted before on other threads.
And as they say in the best 'Westerns', no matter how fast you are on the draw, there is always someone fasterOne thing I learned very quickly - No matter how far I walked, someone walked farther. No matter how heavy my pack is, someone had a heavier pack. And, no matter how many times I will walk the Camino, there will be someone who has walked it more.
A person I knew would say "Are you humble if you know you're humble?" ☺Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?
My dictionary just tells me that a pilgrim is someone who travels to a religious place. However, I don’t think it has to be on foot. After all, the Pilgrim Fathers who travelled to the USA to escape religious persecution came by boat. I am sure some of the original Camino Pilgrims would occasionally opt for a donkey.As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
And that would be her experience.Nancy L Frey (Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain) says pilgrimage to Rome and Jerusalem etc are about the destination, pilgrimage to Santiago is about the journey. She makes an interesting point.
As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
And I would feel drawn to agree with her as we are continually drawn by the pull of that journey and i would happily class my self as an addict.And that would be her experience.
@rectorAs someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
Thats exactly where it got to me as well all those cleanagrinos that smelled nice and had their hair cut. That was until I started a couple of years later for a wee quick one and seen all those disgusting people who had walked for weeks if not monthsHmmmmm. I certainly found myself challenged by my own “unperegrino-like” thoughts of others as I woke up, worn, stinky, disheveled and tired, in Sarria to find so many shiny and sparkly walkers joining the path. Good lesson, though. That challenge helped me to understand the singularity of my Camino, for me, and that comparisons to others (or to my own other mental constructions of what my Camino should look like) were just me getting in my own way. As in meditation, thinking “I’ve got it! I’ve reached my destination!”, means that I haven’t, that I’ve more work ahead of me and that Life will provide more lessons. Pride doesn’t last very long. But then, I had no religious destination or physical goal to attain. Those things were a part of my Camino, which really became more about living in the “here, now and who” of each day, while making my way to somewhere else. I wrote a bit about it here: http://www.canadianyogi.com/jo-estoy-aqui.html
Thanks for the post...for a moment of Camino-thinking.
Do you mean a hat like the true pilgrims wore? (Just testing.)
View attachment 48267
[Edit: By the way, for those who never heard this (meant to be spoken)
Q. If April showers bring May flowers what do Mayflowers bring?
A. Pilgrims. ]
I think everybody walk their own Camino. They walk it the way they choose and all can be proud.As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
This is a very interesting point. And there are other writers too (Eg. Frederic Gros in A Philosophy of walking) who make the point about the significance of walking, or rather going by a non-motorised means, which is central to this particular pilgrimage. In other words, the special thing about the Camino is that the means by which you get to Santiago is important. Whereas in most other pilgrimages (most Christian and Hindu pilgrimages in fact) the important thing is to reach the destination whether Rome or Varanasi, by any means you can. So I can see why Camino walkers might be a little concerned to see the many pilgrims who are in fact walking only about half or less and taking buses and taxis for quite a lot, or even the majority of the way. I am not religious, so it doesn’t bother me what others do. But I can see why pilgrims, who have taken on board the importance of ‘walking to Santiago’ rather than just being in Santiago, might find it difficult to understand those who don’t demonstrate the same commitment to walking.Nancy L Frey (Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain) says pilgrimage to Rome and Jerusalem etc are about the destination, pilgrimage to Santiago is about the journey. She makes an interesting point.
It reduces cognitive dissonance. Things fit better when they are part of a category. We are moving from labels and shorthand to emojis.Why is it necessary to label yourself (or others) at all?
Thats going back too newtonian cartesian way of thinkingIt reduces cognitive dissonance. Things fit better when they are part of a category. We are moving from labels and shorthand to emojis.
This is a fascinating discussion, Where can I read more about the process you are describing? Very keen to understand the political and economic process you mention,I think this is a bit of an upside-down view. Until the 20th century, there was no such difference between a Christian pilgrimage to Santiago, Rome or Jerusalem. Pilgrims travelled any way they could - or could afford: on foot, on horseback, by boat, alone, in a group, with the staff of their household. And centuries later by coach, train, bus, car. While Rome and Jerusalem kept their attraction as a pilgrimage destination, Santiago lost its third place in the list. Lourdes, Fatima, and other Marian destinations rose. But still today, groups from mainly Spanish parishes travel as pilgrims by bus to Santiago, just as pilgrims travel by bus to Rome.
The uniqueness of the "Camino de Santiago", ie walking it, is the fact that it was pushed and promoted for economic and political reasons in a form that just did not and does not exist for a way to Rome or to Jerusalem, and initially this promotion was not even aimed at walkers in the first place, and that secondly, several decades ago, Don Elías Valina and volunteer associations laid the foundations for the attractive infrastructure for walkers that we know today.
Can someone please translate this into English? Thank youThe Spanish have a saying;
Quien va a Santiago y no al Salvador , visita al criado y no al Señor
I'am totaly agree with you exept the Woman part.I am not a true pilgrim, just a woman who loves walking the caminos for a variety of wonderful reasons which I've posted before on other threads.
Who goes to Santiago and not to the Savior, visits the servant and not the LordCan someone please translate this into English? Thank you
Fans going to the Baseball Hall of Fame are Pilgrims too.As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
Yes, if you use walking sticks.Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?
From birth to death everyone is on a pilgrimage. A person is fortunate if they understand this.As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. And there are many other more practical things on the forum if this string is not to everyone’s taste.Is it possible that the "truer" pilgrims are those who journey on, wherever and however, without feeling the need to pontificate about it on this forum?
Buen Camino! Hope you have a wonderful 8 days or however long. One of my dearest friends did Sarria to Santiago in 12 days and had the best time ever. She learnt more about the road and about each of the towns on the way than most who rush through.Very interesting discussion....
As a person who is about to walk from Sarria over 8 days and will find even that a struggle I feel it is not for any of us to judge another's motivation and just be kind whatever.....
As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
Actually, 1000 years ago some hired people to carry them, as well as their bags.My dictionary just tells me that a pilgrim is someone who travels to a religious place. However, I don’t think it has to be on foot. After all, the Pilgrim Fathers who travelled to the USA to escape religious persecution came by boat. I am sure some of the original Camino Pilgrims would occasionally opt for a donkey.
It is all in the intent of the pilgrimage. That can be different for each of us, what we are seeking to receive for our efforts. Just my view.As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
Proud - AND - humble?? I'm not sure those two words work together...at least for me.Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?
The attachment in the previous post says that the albergue in question will only admit "those pilgrims that have completed the camino on foot, by bicycle or on horseback. Those who arrive by bus or other motorized transport cannot stay the night." No problem with it, we know that such albergues exist.
However, some people turn this on its head and think it means that only people who have completed the camino on foot, by bicycle or on horseback are pilgrims. That's a fallacy. And it's not even what the notice says.
So being satisfied with an accomplishment is a bad thing? If you mean boastful by the word "proud," I can understand. But I am proud of my children, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I am proud that I have made pilgrimages, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I am proud to help others walk the Camino, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I am proud that I met others and learned things on the Camino, and I don't think those are bad things.Proud - AND - humble?? I'm not sure those two words work together
You are much more inquisitive and smarter than me, and probably speak fluent French, if the book's title in any indication. I speak no foreign languages other than a few simple words, so that title would send me running! Lol.Jean-Christophe Rufin has an accurate as well as funny description of the hierarchy of long distance walking pilgrims in his book Immortelle randonnée, Compostelle malgré moi. It made me aware of its existence and it also makes me giggle each time I read it.
.....and you all humble and amaze me ...One thing I learned very quickly - No matter how far I walked, someone walked farther. No matter how heavy my pack is, someone had a heavier pack. And, no matter how many times I will walk the Camino, there will be someone who has walked it more.
Did you have an inferiority problem in Rome and/or Jerusalem? Personally, you made the journey for your own good reasons so stop worrying pilgrim! Personally, again, I don’t think you are either more or less! You’ve journied...and arrived!As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?
Jean-Christophe Rufin has an accurate as well as funny description of the hierarchy of long distance walking pilgrims in his book Immortelle randonnée, Compostelle malgré moi. It made me aware of its existence and it also makes me giggle each time I read it.
Yes! "Hiking", but I had to look it up as at first I assumed it was in Spanish!I like the "randonnèe" word.
As an authentic tourist and dawdler I'm disturbed by all these pilgrims crowding out the Camino. They're especially hard to avoid in France where one is expected to check out of hotels by 10 AM.
Hi BB!Did you have an inferiority problem in Rome and/or Jerusalem? Personally, you made the journey for your own good reasons so stop worrying pilgrim! Personally, again, I don’t think you are either more or less! You’ve journied...and arrived!
Oh hi CC! ...we are getting around!Hi BB!
Yes, broadening our horizens, and offering words of wisdom to help others! ☺Oh hi CC! ...we are getting around!
I’ve pm’d Chris...hope this is ok?Yes, broadening our horizens, and offering words of wisdom to help others! ☺
I've never been jealous of them. I like that I'm self sufficient and have the freedom to stop walking anywhere that I want.but on a deeper level maybe I was a wee bit jelous of the Jacotran pilgrims?
I really have such a high opinion of myself, that I do not worry about being superior!!!!!!!!Did you have an inferiority problem in Rome and/or Jerusalem? Personally, you made the journey for your own good reasons so stop worrying pilgrim! Personally, again, I don’t think you are either more or less! You’ve journied...and arrived!
I really have such a high opinion of myself, that I do not worry about being superior!!!!!!!!
I totally agree! Was just pondering why I had fixated on them...not sure if it was even jealousy.I've never been jealous of them. I like that I'm self sufficient and have the freedom to stop walking anywhere that I want.
Surely he's not! Probably just displaying your type of humor, BB! There are no superior acting individuals on this forum, are there?...surely you’re “not serious”!
Absolutely not...we are all pilgrims in his footsteps!Surely he's not! Probably just displaying your type of humor, BB! There are no superior acting individuals on this forum, are there?
pilgrim
/ˈpɪlɡrɪm/
noun
"he pilgrimed to his old sporting places"
- 1 a person who journeys to a sacred place for religious reasons.
synonyms:visitor to a shrine, worshipper, devotee, believer, traveller, wayfarer, crusader; More
2.
a member of the Pilgrim Fathers.- verbARCHAIC
- 1.travel or wander like a pilgrim.
Well FWIW I am planning to walk the Camino Frances in spring next year and I would place myself firmly in the 'travel or wander' category or perhaps 'wayfarer'. My journey started as soon as I made the decision to go and I've spent hours poring over websites, plotting my journey and selling stuff I don't need to save money for my trip. I consider myself a pilgrim already! I can only take a maximum of 4 weeks total so I'll have to miss parts (still to be decided which parts) so does that make me less of a pilgrim compared to you? I personally don't believe so but you can if you like
If you truly believe that you do not understand Northern Irish humour and perhaps are even P.C....surely you’re “not serious”!
I didn’t rise above the rank of PC! So I can’t say I became superior...that’s a bit of West Country “not serious humour”If you truly believe that you do not understand Northern Irish humour and perhaps are even P.C.
i understand that as I am frequently in Bristol Great cider and great humour hows your combined harvesterI didn’t rise above the rank of PC! So I can’t say I became superior...that’s a bit of West Country “not serious humour”
Well bless you..it’s combined with another!i understand that as I am frequently in Bristol Great cider and great humour hows your combined harvester
You Wurrzle (iffy spelling) youWell bless you..it’s combined with another!
That’s me...however you spell it!You Wurrzle (iffy spelling) you
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