All inclusive tour operators

[Tomasso]

Cycling Camino Portugues Coastal. Porto to Santiago de Compostela Jun-Jul 2023
Our small group of four has grown to nine people. I was comfortable organizing accommodation, bike rental, and luggage transfer for four. With nine people on board I would like to give it to professionals.
I am aware of two operators catering specifically to the Camino community
CaminoWays.com
SantiagoWays.com
I would appreciate your comments about these two operators?
Are there other agencies specializing in the Camino?
With thanks,
Thomas

 

[BROWNCOUNTYBOB]

Tomasso, last fall my brother, his wife and another couple hiked Camino Portuguese Central route from Porto to Santiago. My brother and his wife hiked Camino Frances with my wife and myself in 2017. I always enjoy all the planning aspects of the caminos in terms of route planning, reservations of private rooms, backpack transport, etc. My wife and I have hiked Camino Frances four times and never experienced a glitch. I suggested to my brother that he plan their camino since the CP from Porto is only 12 to 14 stages vs 33 - 35 stages of CF. He is not the planner type. After some research, they hired Portugal Green Walks which coordinated hiking stages, room reservations which generally included dinner each night and breakfast each morning, backpack transport, etc. They were quite enthusiastic about their experience. In fact, they are planning a European vacation this fall which will include overnight stays in a few of their favorite places from last fall. Bob

 

[Mark Francis Auchincloss]

Yes I'm self employed but have worked for them both doing videos of the routes, adding new routes, content writing and recommending hotels etc. They are very competitive. when they do your reservation they have much better buying power than one of us going direct to a hotel. They have thousands of reservations so the price they pay for room is much better than our rate. They can then pass on the savings to you when they're booking several hotels for you. There are a few other agencies best to Google Search.

 

[StephenHLanark]

Most of the people on here would scoff at using an agency. But I do as I want a private room each night. I’ve used ‘Walk the Camino’ 3 times as they are based in Scotland. Great service and recommend.

 

[Flatlander]

bike rental

Are you planning to ride the whole way?
It may be an idea to highlight that, if so.
Having little experience of either, I would imagine a dedicated "bike camino" service would be better

 

[wisepilgrim]

Yes I'm self employed but have worked for them both doing videos of the routes, adding new routes, content writing and recommending hotels etc. They are very competitive. when they do your reservation they have much better buying power than one of us going direct to a hotel. They have thousands of reservations so the price they pay for room is much better than our rate. They can then pass on the savings to you when they're booking several hotels for you. There are a few other agencies best to Google Search.

Given the price of the package tours, and my own experience working for some of the operators, I’m going to say that the savings are not passed on. They are profit, clearly and expectedly. It is a premium for a reason.

What they do accomplish with all of the bulk buying is to drive down supply, which may or may not result in rising prices for everyone else.

 

[Mark Francis Auchincloss]

Given the price of the package tours, and my own experience working for some of the operators, I’m going to say that the savings are not passed on. They are profit, clearly and expectedly. It is a premium for a reason.

What they do accomplish with all of the bulk buying is to drive down supply, which may or may not result in rising prices for everyone else.

I'm not going to argue whether it's positive or negative.. I'm just telling it how it is... Many people like people with mobility impairments cannot walk such distances on the Camino without assistance like transfer of their luggage.. Rightly or wrongly agencies fulfill their role .. We live in a capitalist world so people like you who sell Guides or businesses need to make a profit.. Normal.. Less judgement and more acceptance that everyone has their right to choose!!

 

[auburnfive]

The very first Camino I did included accommodations, baggage transfer and half board, but I have learned and organized myself, once for a group of 7.
One suggestion is not to include your dinners in the package, gives you a lot more flexibility in what time to eat. There are lots of choices, it’s easy and fun to pick out where you will eat. You may find that 9 of you might want to split up from time to time, or simply grab something from a grocery store.

 

[Tomasso]

Tomasso, last fall my brother, his wife and another couple hiked Camino Portuguese Central route from Porto to Santiago. My brother and his wife hiked Camino Frances with my wife and myself in 2017. I always enjoy all the planning aspects of the caminos in terms of route planning, reservations of private rooms, backpack transport, etc. My wife and I have hiked Camino Frances four times and never experienced a glitch. I suggested to my brother that he plan their camino since the CP from Porto is only 12 to 14 stages vs 33 - 35 stages of CF. He is not the planner type. After some research, they hired Portugal Green Walks which coordinated hiking stages, room reservations which generally included dinner each night and breakfast each morning, backpack transport, etc. They were quite enthusiastic about their experience. In fact, they are planning a European vacation this fall which will include overnight stays in a few of their favorite places from last fall. Bob

Thank you for the recommendation Bob, in fact they do organize cycling Camino tours. I will be requesting their offer.

 

[Tomasso]

Yes I'm self employed but have worked for them both doing videos of the routes, adding new routes, content writing and recommending hotels etc. They are very competitive. when they do your reservation they have much better buying power than one of us going direct to a hotel. They have thousands of reservations so the price they pay for room is much better than our rate. They can then pass on the savings to you when they're booking several hotels for you. There are a few other agencies best to Google Search.

Thank you for your perspective Mark. I appreciate an insider view. It all makes sense.
Regards,
Thomas

 

[Tomasso]

Most of the people on here would scoff at using an agency. But I do as I want a private room each night. I’ve used ‘Walk the Camino’ 3 times as they are based in Scotland. Great service and recommend.

Thank you Stephen,
If it was I would venture into putting it all together. With nine on board, including three teenagers, I prefer the professionals

Are you planning to ride the whole way?
It may be an idea to highlight that, if so.
Having little experience of either, I would imagine a dedicated "bike camino" service would be better

Yes, we will be riding the whole way.
The group is multigenerational with varied cycling skill levels.
The support will be desired.
Thank you Flatlander.

 

[Flatlander]

Thank you Stephen,
If it was I would venture into putting it all together. With nine on board, including three teenagers, I prefer the professionals

Yes, we will be riding the whole way.
The group is multigenerational with varied cycling skill levels.
The support will be desired.
Thank you Flatlander.

I think this has grown beyond your original plans? Significantly?
At the risk of being cast into the fiery furnaces of Hell and being banished from a Camino forum have you considered an alternative route or even country?
I'm thinking different ages, different capabilities could be ...... challenging.

A more "mainstream" route (I'm thinking a grand river route like the Rhine or Danube) might offer more for the younger members. Excess energy can be consumed exploring both sides of the river or independence experienced as the youth take one side and the oldies the other (it's not always possible but generally is) And they are both wonderful rides. There are a lot of companies servicing the popular biking routes with lots of options.
I'm not familiar with the Portuguese route but small towns may not be a lot of fun for teenagers to pass several nights in.

If a Camino is definitely what you want to do, perhaps consider the Via de la Plata which has both on road and off road variations, again satisfying different capabilities.

 

[Tomasso]

Given the price of the package tours, and my own experience working for some of the operators, I’m going to say that the savings are not passed on. They are profit, clearly and expectedly. It is a premium for a reason.

What they do accomplish with all of the bulk buying is to drive down supply, which may or may not result in rising prices for everyone else.

Booking bike friendly hotels, luggage transfers, for nine people involves a lot of work and coordination. Also I am not sure if I can do it as well as the operators can.
Not to mention the support they give you en route.
Happy to compensate them for that.
Thank you for the thought.

 

[Mark Francis Auchincloss]

Thank you for your perspective Mark. I appreciate an insider view. It all makes sense.
Regards,
Thomas

I'm glad I can help. I always get criticised if I write something positive about the agencies...I just like to help pilgrims... agency ones as well..I would appreciate an occasional Like that keeps me motivated to help others too!

 

[dougfitz]

I just like to help pilgrims... agency ones as well.

I doubt anyone has a problem with helping other pilgrims. However, this forum appeals to me, and I suspect many others, inasmuch as it helps prospective pilgrims undertake their pilgrimage in a 'traditional manner', harking back to a time before providing booking, transport, etc became a lucrative commercial proposition.

They can then pass on the savings to you when they're booking several hotels for you.

My immediate question is whether there is any evidence that they do pass on any lower costs that they achieve. More, whether lower costs result in savings over individuals doing their own bookings wouldn't be something that would be easy to demonstrate. That would, in my view, be a complex discussion involving working out how any such comparison could be made fairly in the first place and then finding data we could agree upon.

In the meantime, I would be inclined to treat any suggestions of savings being passed on as optimistic hyperbole worthy of a marketing campaign, not of informed discussion.

 

[auburnfive]

Having done lots of research when booking for a group, it is definitely considerably less expensive to do it yourself. I haven’t seen anywhere the price quoted for 6 to be less than the price quoted for 2, although there should be a savings with the staff time to organize proportionally less.

 

[J Walking]

Organizing for 9 - of various ages and physical abilities . . . God Bless you for taking that on!

 

[kenwilltravel]

Are there other agencies specializing in the Camino?
With thanks,
Thomas

When my wife and I began planning our first Camino, back in the spring of 2018, we considered using a tour operator. We looked at Marly Camino, based in Madrid, and Follow the Camino, out of Dublin. We even put down a deposit on Marly, which we lost when we later decided to do it on our own. We realised, over time, that we really only needed one discrete service, which was luggage transfer. And that could be done more cheaply by someone like Tuitrans. Being newbies to this whole Camino thing, we had a steep learning curve to climb.
On the other hand, we have friends who used Follow the Camino on the Frances and they felt it was the right decision for them. These folks were operating on a much tighter schedule than us and didn't have the time that we had for research.
The point I'm trying to make here is that people have different reasons for deciding to go with these tour operators. And those reasons are perfectly valid. There's no absolute right or wrong to this decision of whether to use an agency or not. Everybody has to take their individual circumstances into account.
I personally don't know of any operators that specialise in biking groups, but there has got to be someone like that out there. Maybe you can start calling the different groups mentioned in this thread and see if they might have that expertise, or know of someone else who does.

 

[Tomasso]

Having done lots of research when booking for a group, it is definitely considerably less expensive to do it yourself. I haven’t seen anywhere the price quoted for 6 to be less than the price quoted for 2, although there should be a savings with the staff time to organize proportionally less.

Thank you for your thoughts
Thomas

 

[Tomasso]

Organizing for 9 - of various ages and physical abilities . . . God Bless you for taking that on!

Well, I passed the challenge to the professionals. The only challenge now is choose the one we like, and we have four of them.
Thank you for your comment,
Thomas

 

[Tomasso]

When my wife and I began planning our first Camino, back in the spring of 2018, we considered using a tour operator. We looked at Marly Camino, based in Madrid, and Follow the Camino, out of Dublin. We even put down a deposit on Marly, which we lost when we later decided to do it on our own. We realised, over time, that we really only needed one discrete service, which was luggage transfer. And that could be done more cheaply by someone like Tuitrans. Being newbies to this whole Camino thing, we had a steep learning curve to climb.
On the other hand, we have friends who used Follow the Camino on the Frances and they felt it was the right decision for them. These folks were operating on a much tighter schedule than us and didn't have the time that we had for research.
The point I'm trying to make here is that people have different reasons for deciding to go with these tour operators. And those reasons are perfectly valid. There's no absolute right or wrong to this decision of whether to use an agency or not. Everybody has to take their individual circumstances into account.
I personally don't know of any operators that specialise in biking groups, but there has got to be someone like that out there. Maybe you can start calling the different groups mentioned in this thread and see if they might have that expertise, or know of someone else who does.

Thank you for your perspective Ken,
Your points are well taken,
Regards,
Thomas