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You would think that would do it, but 2 days ago I was in the middle and 1 cyclist came each side of me. They dont even say sorry or acknowledge at it and in the month Ive been walking has continued to be a huge problemMost of the cyclists you will encounter on the Camino are not pilgrims but local cyclists out cycling their own trails, that is not excusing their behavior. I found that staying in the middle of the path forced them to call out or stop. Some come so fast that you cannot hear them in time. For the most part I rarely had problems with them.
Yes - many are not pilgrims and they often approach at a much faster pace which is even scarier when you don't hear them coming in advance. That said - I would never purposely stand in the middle of the path because then if they don't slow down or stop in time I am more likely to be injured (cyclist too - but if they didn't call out or slow down that is on them).Most of the cyclists you will encounter on the Camino are not pilgrims but local cyclists out cycling their own trails, that is not excusing their behavior. I found that staying in the middle of the path forced them to call out or stop. Some come so fast that you cannot hear them in time. For the most part I rarely had problems with them.
Seems to be cyclist mantra the world over.Kinda like a few local non thinking cyclists in the US...the Mt Vernon trail can be exciting. It's pretty narrow in parts.
I always politely thank any cyclist that warns me...and coming from the Estados Unidos, I stay on the right pretty exclusively. Which drives the UK and Japanese cyclists crazy, I know...
I'm sorry that your experience has been so negative.
Buen Camino
Actually its a camino forum, and it was a courteous request, not a complaint, but anyway great to hear there will be one less high speed biker to worry about.Spoiler Alert: reply from a biker.
Complaining about cyclists on a hiking forum makes about as much sense as complaining about hikers on a bike forum - don't you think? The cyclists who are the source of this type of complaint are not on this forum and certainly don't read it. Respectfully I'd say you just gotta learn to live with it but if it's any consolation I for one will not ride the CF again; there are just too many peregrinos.
Now from a bikers POV we do not ride out of control, aiming for as many peregrinos as possible; no we ride under control avoiding every one on the trail. One of the big difficulties I found was the unpredictability of each & every peregrino when they heard the ting-ting of a bike-bell - which way would they jump? I have written this before but like vessels on the high seas the stand-on vessel (you) should maintain a steady course & speed while the give-way vessel (the bike / biker) should keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. So maintain a steady course and the bikers will go around you or slow down if there's insufficient room to pass.
PS Anyone know of any Spanish forums complaining of hikers on the trail, I'd love to read it?
Ting, ting y buen camino. Richard
Venting has its uses.Complaining about cyclists on a hiking forum makes about as much sense as complaining about hikers on a bike forum - don't you think
Bicigrinos are a generally courteous bunch. So yes. From that POV. But having been run off the camino by local mountain bike groups several times, I have the distinct feeling that they really don't give a...you know. In fact sometmes their riding feels distinctly aggressive.from a bikers POV we do not ride out of control, aiming for as many peregrinos as possible;
Very good to know - thanks @Skinnybiker. I tend to jump out of the way.So maintain a steady course and the bikers will go around you or slow down if there's insufficient room to pass.
Actually its a camino forum, and it was a courteous request, not a complaint, but anyway great to hear there will be one less high speed biker to worry about.
I reported that post because can only see negativity in it. The mods disagree.Seems to be cyclist mantra the world over.
While venting can have its uses and can be healthy there is always the matter of context and audience. I left this forum for several years due to a constant, low level disdain shown towards people on bikes.Venting has its uses.
You're probably right. And it may be understandable.I have the distinct feeling that they really don't give a...you know. In fact sometmes their riding feels distinctly aggressive.
I have received abuse, had things thrown at me, had a window wound down so a dog could have a go at my head and been been deliberately run off the road several times for no other apparent reason than I was travelling by bicycle. (Interestingly, all in one country)
Those people didn't know me, where I was from, where I was going. The only thing they could tell about me was that I was a "cyclist".
Forgive me, but I will continue to call out ill-placed venting.
Yes, roads of course.The point is, that from a local's point of view these are their roads
Yes. And very true.I'm coming to the conclusion that they have the ability not to paint the many with the same paint as the few.
If there is one lesson to be taken from a Camino might I suggest this as a very useful one?
When the off-road sections of the Camino were chosen and marked in the 1980s there were very few mountain bikes. The ratio of cyclists to walkers travelling to Santiago then was higher than today but there was little conflict because cyclists mostly used lightweight road touring bikes which could not follow the rough paths. The problem more recently is that the type of bike now favoured allows cyclists to make use of paths which previous generations avoided. And numbers of walkers have increased massively. A bad combination.But where I have been run off the path was in each case off-road. On paths originally meant for feet, not wheels. Mountain bikers don't easily mix with anyone in such places.
Very.A bad combination
But where I have been run off the path was in each case off-road. On paths originally meant for feet, not wheels. Mountain bikers don't easily mix with anyone in such places.
"We" may be a majority, but a majority of that majority are guests and visitors.But we are the majority
Going back to the careful use of language, "invading" is pretty strong, wouldn't you agree?So why do some mountain bikers assume they should have the right of way when they are 'invading' paths that were neither desghed nor meant for them?
Entitled to be there? In most cases, yes.Especially when the bikers feel entitled to own said path.
It's puzzling for some people on these fora that so many want to do the CF this year when according to some, it's threatening to break under the numbers of travellers.Honestly, it puzzles me that they come on camino paths at all given the volume of foot traffic, and the many available alternatives for off-road rides where there are few or no walkers.
@Flatlander, just to be clear.It's puzzling for some people on these fora that so many want to do the CF this year when according to some, it's threatening to break under the numbers of travellers.
Except this is a pilgrim forum, not a hiking forum. You aren't going to see a lot of threads here discussing the many non-pilgrimage hiking routes of the world. I wouldn't come here to discuss hiking the Bruce Trail, our local 890 km trail. If you see more people talking about walking than cycling, that's because there are more pedestrians than cyclists on the Caminos, so it shouldn't be surprising that there are more of them posting here. But folks are certainly welcome to start and contribute to threads on the advantages, challenges, and logistics of cycling a Camino.Complaining about cyclists on a hiking forum makes about as much sense as complaining about hikers on a bike forum - don't you think?
There's an assumption in there -the cyclist is not being careful. That's taking someone's behaviour and putting a motivation to it.It's just that the mixed use does not work out well when the cyclists are not careful.
They can ride lots of places - but choose to go to the one trail guaranteed to have throngs of walkers?
Yeah. I'm just puzzled by that.
I've ridden in pelotons. This was...if I didn't jump out of the way damn fast there would have been a crash. The danger was not perceived.these guys'n'gals are used to riding in such close proximity and most of the danger exists only in my head.
But of course I have no idea. Because you're very right about this -And I wouldn't be surprised if some got some kind of a thrill out of scaring the bejaysus out of pedestrians.
Anything else is just projecting our own thoughts, feelings and experiences onto them.
Apologies. I was speaking in a more general sense, not attempting to diminish or reclassify your experience.This was...if I didn't jump out of the way damn fast there would have been a crash. The danger was not perceived.
In a nutshell, yes.Bottom line is we all need to share the way.
A perfectly understandable and human reaction.I notice the clear and sharp desire to push them over.
Yep, that's the problem. Shouting doesn't help if you don't have enough time to react and / or don't know how you're expected to react to begin with.I, for one, do not know exactly what is expected of me, when I am shouted at from behind.
Good traffic logic is for cyclists to use the bell, which not many seem to use/ or to have as the case might be.
What is being shouted?
"coming on your left"?, if it is in English
_ but cyclist are also French, Spanish or Italian and I cannot for the life of me get a meaning of a shout in such a small span of time.
So, What I am forced to do is to stay Exactly where I am, in order Not to walk into the line of whichever route the overtaker is heading. Even if it is in the midlle of the track......
Sometimes I get a scolding in passing, but not often.
If I turn around to see who is coming, I´ll waste precious time And will present a double sized silhouet looked sideways, and double likely to be hit...
Woah. That's intense. I'm sorry that happened to you @Flatlander. She'd clearly lost it. (My desire to push people over is instantaneous when they pass me too close and fast and goes away just as fast.)recall being confronted by an angry peligrina near the end of my own Camino who approached my bike and proceeded to attack it with one of her hiking sticks!
She'd had a scary experience with some bikers earlier, saw me pull up at a fountain, got up from her seat on a terrace, picked up her pole and went for my poor bike. Thankfully, she did no damage so we were able to talk it out.
I have no idea where my calmness came from on that occasion but it's a lesson I refer to frequently. I haven't always been so calm.
This is exactly what @Skinnybiker suggested above. Was news to me as a tactic when being overtaken on a reasonably wide path.What I am forced to do is to stay Exactly where I am, in order Not to walk into the line of whichever route the overtaker is heading
Same! Gracias.I have enjoyed teasing out the points here in a respectful exchange.
Thank you.
This is not the first such complaint that has puzzled me in this forum.Hello all. Before I write, this post is not intended to start a huge brawl, so please bear with me !
Currently on the Camino and would like to know why bike riders do not find it neccessary to warn pilgrims that they are coming up behind or aside them. Nearly been bowled over a couple of times now. Riders PLEASE use a bell, shout out or scream, whichever works for you, but please show some courtesy.
Which is why in addition to warnings (usually ineffective), I slow down to their speed before passing.… the unpredictability of each & every peregrino when they heard the ting-ting of a bike-bell - which way would they jump? …
My experience in USA is that there is some hostility by motorists toward cyclists. And in my opinion, much of that is inspired by the sizable minority of people on bicycles who seem to believe they are exempt from all traffic laws—not even slowing down at red lights or intersections, and riding on the wrong side of the road (or on sidewalks when clearly marked bike lanes are available).I have received abuse, had things thrown at me, had a window wound down so a dog could have a go at my head and been been deliberately run off the road several times for no other apparent reason than I was travelling by bicycle. (Interestingly, all in one country)
Wouldn't dream of engaging.So don't accuse me of stereotyping.
There are quite a few rhetorical questions here Flatlander. Appreciate you are exercised by this issue but there are less grating ways of pursuing this discussion.Can I ask where you have read in @Skinnybiker 's post that they are a high speed biker?
Is there any chance that when you have arrived in Spain with a negative view of cyclists (or as I prefer to call them, people on bicycles)?
Can I ask what they have said that is so disagreeable to merit your pretty uncharitable response?
There is some very sound advice such as to keep a steady course.
I reported that post because can only see negativity in it. The mods disagree.
What is this "mantra" the world over? Please. Spell it out for me.
Where in the world, specifically, does this apply?
Can you provide some evidence for it?
I ask because I've travelled a bit (on my bike) and my experience is that outside of the English-speaking World the attitudes to people on bikes can be very, very different. The Dutch, for example don't have one word to describe people on bikes - they have two. Their language allows them to differentiate between more performance cyclists and those who are more utilitarian or recreational. It's a pity that English can't. Therefore, we should perhaps be more careful in our use of it.
I note that you are from Australia, a beautiful and wondrous country but one with a stong bent against cycling. You are travelling in a country that is beautiful and wondrous in very different ways but with a very strong focus on sustainable travel and shared spaces. (Have you not noticed the "Scooter lBitz"?)
Perhaps you have brought one thing in your "mental pack" from home that is not serving its use?
There is one question that could be considered rhetorical. The others are genuine questions asked in earnest.There are quite a few rhetorical questions here Flatlander.
Exercised? I have been run off the road, nearly been seriously injured and had dogs set on me for no other reason than I was riding a bicycle. Stereotyping is a huge factor in that.Appreciate you are exercised by this issue but there are less grating ways of pursuing this discussion.
Stereotyping at its finest.Seems to be cyclist mantra the world over.
Unfortunately, I wasn't referring to cycling infrastructure.In my opinion there is no 'strong bent' against cyclists. In fact, cycle paths are being created increasingly frequently.
I'll probably grate again, but there is nothing lucky about the attitude to cycling in NL. The cycling attitudes and infrastructure of today was something fought for in the 70's and voted for consistently up to the present day.Holland, like Denmark, is a flat country and is in the fortunate situation of having a long-established and well-developed discrete system of bike paths. Lucky them, I say.
Tell most people in the US that you are cycling across their country and they will certify you insane
With respect, that is my experience.No, we won’t.
You’ve spoken to over 330 million Americans and we all said the same thing - incredible.With respect, that is my experience.
Of course I haven't.You’ve spoken to over 330 million Americans and we all said the same thing - incredible.
I think it has some relevance to the camino.Also, there are motorists who behave aggressively towards cyclists but the majority don't (although this, while true, has little or no relevance to the camino)
When I first moved to NL I was virulently anti-cyclist. My cough has softened, somewhat, in the meantimeIt is also pretty clear that no-one is going to move from their firmly entrenched position
Well, it's mildly amusing for a start!Are we getting anywhere with this? The topic seems to have been thoroughly aired and it seems established beyond doubt that many cyclists behave very well although others do not and that pilgrims and walkers do not always know how to react when warned of the approach of a bicycle and some also behave unreasonably. Also, there are motorists who behave aggressively towards cyclists but the majority don't (although this, while true, has little or no relevance to the camino). It is also pretty clear that no-one is going to move from their firmly entrenched position in the face of the most persuasive arguments and evidence. So, unless there is something new to add, I am going to close this thread, but not just yet. I will leave it open if anyone can give me a good reason to.
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